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Scotty

Story, Monday July 23, 2018

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Raven growing a beard?
Mirror Universe Spock?

 

For some reason, I expected Grace to arrange the eventual meeting between Adrian Raven and the Moperville North group.

 

This is not the first time Sarah has taken the initiative.  (It was almost a requirement when dating Elliot.)  But this feels incredibly surprising.

 

And an actual end to the current arc has been announced.
Maybe now we can get answers to the questions raised before Sister III.
Questions like, "Who is the Muffin Man?"

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Awww...Sarah is going to tell him how much his mom loved him, how worried she was he'd hate her for what she'd told him, maybe even tell him about the task Pandora gave her and thus remind him of the clog and the need to remove it.  But I think this call is more about the feels.

Hmmm....I wonder if she knows her task is done because she can no longer cast her spell?   :-(

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Meanwhile, at the other Diane's... :demonicduck:

I did not really notice Raven's stubble during his interaction with Noah. But hey, "new" friend in an odd, not high, place.

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Just now, CritterKeeper said:

Awww...Sarah is going to tell him how much his mom loved him, how worried she was he'd hate her for what she'd told him, maybe even tell him about the task Pandora gave her and thus remind him of the clog and the need to remove it.  But I think this call is more about the feels.

Hmmm....I wonder if she knows her task is done because she can no longer cast her spell?   :-(

Pandora never told Adrian where the clog was or how to remove it, she was planning on being there when the time came to guide him through the process. Adrian, or someone else, will have to figure it out.

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18 hours ago, Scotty said:

http://www.egscomics.com/comic/sister3-306

Huh.... did not expect this.

Did not expect this will become one of those "too important to postpone" bits, but it DOES make sense for someone to really talk with Adrian Raven ...

18 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Oof. Raven does not look good. Not that this is in any way surprising.

He looks exactly as bad as in the previous page with Noah.

17 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Awww...Sarah is going to tell him how much his mom loved him, how worried she was he'd hate her for what she'd told him, maybe even tell him about the task Pandora gave her and thus remind him of the clog and the need to remove it.  But I think this call is more about the feels.

Hmmm....I wonder if she knows her task is done because she can no longer cast her spell?   :-(

Yes, this is totally more about feels but maybe she will remind him the "chore" of removing the clog because I suspect he forgot.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

Pandora never told Adrian where the clog was or how to remove it, she was planning on being there when the time came to guide him through the process. Adrian, or someone else, will have to figure it out.

She might told him offscreen. Note the some recapping later - while it's not clear what exactly she told him, it would make sense if that included location of the dam.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

Did not expect this will become one of those "too important to postpone" bits, but it DOES make sense for someone to really talk with Adrian Raven ...

I suspect that Dan won't keep this discussion between Sarah and Adrian to a phone call, either Sarah or Adrian will suggest talking in person.

The question is, where would they talk? At Adrian's seems logical, Grace could tell Sarah where he lives if she hasn't already done so. I would imagine seeing Max would prompt discussion of how Sarah knows Tedd, Sarah will mention how Tedd knew about Pandora's refresh and Susan will get mentioned somewhere as well.

Would Adrian mention being related to Susan though? I'm guessing Sarah would still be curious about what Pandora meant about the lie she told herself that she felt Adrian would hate her for, Sarah will likely mention that talk as context for why Sarah said Pandora was her friend.

Just now, hkmaly said:

She might told him offscreen. Note the some recapping later - while it's not clear what exactly she told him, it would make sense if that included location of the dam.

No, Dan said i'm pretty sure it was on twitter (because I just went through Dan's reddit history and couldn't find it) that Pandora hadn't told Adrian the where and how, before the vampire attack.

 

Edit: found the tweet:

 

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:
5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Did not expect this will become one of those "too important to postpone" bits, but it DOES make sense for someone to really talk with Adrian Raven ...

I suspect that Dan won't keep this discussion between Sarah and Adrian to a phone call, either Sarah or Adrian will suggest talking in person.

The question is, where would they talk? At Adrian's seems logical, Grace could tell Sarah where he lives if she hasn't already done so. I would imagine seeing Max would prompt discussion of how Sarah knows Tedd, Sarah will mention how Tedd knew about Pandora's refresh and Susan will get mentioned somewhere as well.

Would Adrian mention being related to Susan though? I'm guessing Sarah would still be curious about what Pandora meant about the lie she told herself that she felt Adrian would hate her for, Sarah will likely mention that talk as context for why Sarah said Pandora was her friend.

I'm not sure they would talk THIS long ... and if they do, I suspect we won't see it whole. Sarah certainly mentions Tedd and maybe even mentions his relationship with Pandora, but Susan? No reason to mention her. Or to be more exact, no reason for SARAH to mention her ; she may mention the lie, especially if she deduced it's related to him having children, but in such case it would be Adrian who may (or may not) mention Diane and Susan.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

No, Dan said i'm pretty sure it was on twitter (because I just went through Dan's reddit history and couldn't find it) that Pandora hadn't told Adrian the where and how, before the vampire attack.

 

Edit: found the tweet:

 

Technically, twitter is not canon :)

... didn't saw this, but if Dan didn't changed mind since then, then finding out where the clog is and how to fix it might be interesting story possibly involving griffins. THEY know where it is.

 

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3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Technically, twitter is not canon

There is a small difference between a creator's tweet about what is and is not part of his continuity and some random thimblewit who makes authoritative statements about something they have no idea what they are talking about.

9 hours ago, hkmaly said:

He looks exactly as bad as in the previous page with Noah.

Oh, I am sorry, I did not know there were expiration dates on whether you were allowed to make comments on something in the comic or not. So this means that if, say, Elliot cuts his hair soon, I have to IMMEDIATELY say that I think it looks good if I do so, and that if I don't, I am never allowed to mention his hairstyle again?

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

I'm not sure they would talk THIS long ... and if they do, I suspect we won't see it whole. Sarah certainly mentions Tedd and maybe even mentions his relationship with Pandora, but Susan? No reason to mention her. Or to be more exact, no reason for SARAH to mention her ; she may mention the lie, especially if she deduced it's related to him having children, but in such case it would be Adrian who may (or may not) mention Diane and Susan.

Sarah knows that Susan was involved with fighting the vampires in the mall, Susan also said "there's more to it than that", Tedd also told Sarah that Pandora was reset because she killed the vampires to protect Adrian so Sarah knows that both Susan and Adrian were fighting the vampires, Tedd said that Susan might be able to tell them more, but Sarah would know she could get answers from Adrian as well.

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

... didn't saw this, but if Dan didn't changed mind since then, then finding out where the clog is and how to fix it might be interesting story possibly involving griffins. THEY know where it is.

It's possible he'd already planned something like that back when he was planning Pandora's reset, the griffins probably do know where the clog is, well hopefully Andrea remembers what landmarks are close to it, cus we know she's about as bad with directions as Elliot is, but in terms of removing it, it's uncertain if they're capable of it but if they at least know how it could be done, they could instruct Adrian. Sarah of course would need to continue munching away at the ambient energy with her spell but that's going to take at least 3 more weeks.

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10 hours ago, The Old Hack said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Technically, twitter is not canon

There is a small difference between a creator's tweet about what is and is not part of his continuity and some random thimblewit who makes authoritative statements about something they have no idea what they are talking about.

I was speaking about the fact that Dan repeatedly said that only stuff which is actually in comics is canon.

Also, is it good idea to discuss politics here?

10 hours ago, The Old Hack said:
19 hours ago, hkmaly said:

He looks exactly as bad as in the previous page with Noah.

Oh, I am sorry, I did not know there were expiration dates on whether you were allowed to make comments on something in the comic or not. So this means that if, say, Elliot cuts his hair soon, I have to IMMEDIATELY say that I think it looks good if I do so, and that if I don't, I am never allowed to mention his hairstyle again?

Oh, you are free to mention his hairstyle. You might notice it wasn't moderator red and also that I'm not moderator :)

But on the other hand, don't be surprised if someone reacts pointing out it's nothing new. Especially if it was already discussed ... although in this case the discussion somehow ended on "how many immortals have beards" if I remember correctly.

(If anything, he looked even worse in that previous page. He looked like attempting to get drunk with whatever was in that cup. Which I suppose is tea, making it quote a challenge.)

Generally, just because I'm reacting to someone doesn't mean I disagree with him or want to argue with him. Although I'm finding it's pretty common assumption (like, not just here) ...

5 hours ago, Scotty said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm not sure they would talk THIS long ... and if they do, I suspect we won't see it whole. Sarah certainly mentions Tedd and maybe even mentions his relationship with Pandora, but Susan? No reason to mention her. Or to be more exact, no reason for SARAH to mention her ; she may mention the lie, especially if she deduced it's related to him having children, but in such case it would be Adrian who may (or may not) mention Diane and Susan.

Sarah knows that Susan was involved with fighting the vampires in the mall, Susan also said "there's more to it than that", Tedd also told Sarah that Pandora was reset because she killed the vampires to protect Adrian so Sarah knows that both Susan and Adrian were fighting the vampires, Tedd said that Susan might be able to tell them more, but Sarah would know she could get answers from Adrian as well.

Hmmm ... while possible that they would talk about this as well, I think Sarah really wants to talk about Pandora and not the vampires. Susan's "there's more to it than that" is only reason why would she suspect it's this much connected ... on the other hand Sarah is good at guessing ...

5 hours ago, Scotty said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... didn't saw this, but if Dan didn't changed mind since then, then finding out where the clog is and how to fix it might be interesting story possibly involving griffins. THEY know where it is.

It's possible he'd already planned something like that back when he was planning Pandora's reset, the griffins probably do know where the clog is, well hopefully Andrea remembers what landmarks are close to it, cus we know she's about as bad with directions as Elliot is

I suspect that not only the griffins know where it is but are able to find it, like, have some searching spell for it or something. I mean, it's not like they KNOW Moperville, without being able to find the clog they wouldn't even know if they are in correct city. It's either being able to find it or matching maps from both sides of earth and knowing where the other end is on their half.

5 hours ago, Scotty said:

but in terms of removing it, it's uncertain if they're capable of it but if they at least know how it could be done, they could instruct Adrian.

Is that really that hard? Like, sure, it probably requires some level of magic and knowledge, but I don't think there would be something specific that Pandora needed to say.

And, Andrea might've been able to remove the clog herself if Sarah would already work on reducing the pressure. Maybe. Maybe not.

Story-wise, unless this is just "I need some excuse to keep ambient magic high without making everyone look like not even trying to solve it", needing to wait for Griffins is only thing which makes sense. Restarted Pandora might not even know enough to help.

5 hours ago, Scotty said:

Sarah of course would need to continue munching away at the ambient energy with her spell but that's going to take at least 3 more weeks.

... I suppose she will be terribly devastated by this :)

She LIKES using her spell. Only question is if her grades survive 3 more weeks of using it. Oh wait she can use it to cheat on tests ... ok, no problem here either.

 

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Just now, hkmaly said:

I was speaking about the fact that Dan repeatedly said that only stuff which is actually in comics is canon.

Dan was mainly referring to things that people my speculate on like the characters' sex lives because he isn't sure himself whether they'd have done something or not so he doesn't want to say either way and then later be like "Oh wait, they could have totally done that already".

In Pandora's case, it's going to be a while before we see her again, she likely won't be back before the griffins return, and there's no guarantee that she'd remember what needed to be done, she certainly wouldn't have the power to assist with anything that wouldn't break Immortal Law again.

11 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Story-wise, unless this is just "I need some excuse to keep ambient magic high without making everyone look like not even trying to solve it", needing to wait for Griffins is only thing which makes sense. Restarted Pandora might not even know enough to help.

I guess I already answered part of this above, but story-wise, well considering the way Magic is now, it would make sense to have some plot reason to delay the removal of the clog so that the characters could learn what's new and different.

Then again, maybe removing the clog won't really change anything on the Moperville side, but I do wonder how this half of the world would compare to the other half since the other half didn't have to worry about magic changes, maybe their system is equal to one of the older systems of the main half?

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3 hours ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I was speaking about the fact that Dan repeatedly said that only stuff which is actually in comics is canon.

Dan was mainly referring to things that people my speculate on like the characters' sex lives because he isn't sure himself whether they'd have done something or not so he doesn't want to say either way and then later be like "Oh wait, they could have totally done that already".

Hence "Technically". Most likely, stuff he tweets about will end up being correct, but character's sex lives is not ONLY things he prefers to leave open ... and the excuse of "it was just on twitter, not canon" is ready if he would need it.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

In Pandora's case, it's going to be a while before we see her again, she likely won't be back before the griffins return, and there's no guarantee that she'd remember what needed to be done

Yes. She had trouble remembering the clog even before (although for different reason), it's possible she won't remember it after reset.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

she certainly wouldn't have the power to assist with anything that wouldn't break Immortal Law again.

She doesn't need any power to guide and she wouldn't be able to do anything else than guiding anyway because, as she already pointed out, removing the clog is depowering moperville. Sure, she WILL be weaker, but it's not relevant to this issue.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

I guess I already answered part of this above, but story-wise, well considering the way Magic is now, it would make sense to have some plot reason to delay the removal of the clog so that the characters could learn what's new and different.

Then again, maybe removing the clog won't really change anything on the Moperville side

Exactly: we know that Sarah is likely to lose her spell, but otherwise, all our characters gained lot of experience since awakening and would likely be able to learn what's new just fine even without the clog. Oh wait ... Grace. Grace might need some time to train with higher ambient magic.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

but I do wonder how this half of the world would compare to the other half since the other half didn't have to worry about magic changes, maybe their system is equal to one of the older systems of the main half?

Most likely, their system is the same as on this half post-not-a-reset, meaning all "systems" are working. However, neither Andrea nor Dame Tara had any trouble with magic even BEFORE the not-a-reset (and neither had Magus actually). So ... will they even notice something changed?

On the other hand, maybe they do. And maybe Andrea would even realize what it means as she red about it ...

 

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4 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Hence "Technically". Most likely, stuff he tweets about will end up being correct, but character's sex lives is not ONLY things he prefers to leave open ... and the excuse of "it was just on twitter, not canon" is ready if he would need it.

I think the sex lives bit was an example he used because someone had asked about that, I would imagine it would apply to other things. His tweet about Pandora seemed like he had already set it in stone script wise and it was just waiting for the moment to be mentioned in comic, like maybe that'd be something Adrian tells Sarah when Sarah mentions that Pandora had asked her to use up the ambient energy...huh, I'm guessing Pandora never told Adrian who she got to do that or else Adrian would have recognized Sarah's name.

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On 7/23/2018 at 7:03 AM, Scotty said:

Pandora never told Adrian where the clog was or how to remove it, she was planning on being there when the time came to guide him through the process. Adrian, or someone else, will have to figure it out.

I hope he's up to figuring it out, possibly with griffin help, but I do wonder whether it's really as critical as it was before the not-a-reset.  The main reason Pandora was ready to reverse what she'd done was for fear of causing a reset, after all.

On 7/23/2018 at 5:56 PM, hkmaly said:

She might [have] told him offscreen. Note the some recapping later - while it's not clear what exactly she told him, it would make sense if that included location of the dam.

 

On 7/23/2018 at 8:03 PM, Scotty said:

I suspect that Dan won't keep this discussion between Sarah and Adrian to a phone call, either Sarah or Adrian will suggest talking in person.

I'm not sure we'll get to see the actual conversation.  That's the sort of thing that could happen "off-screen" and we only see its effect or hear about it later.

On 7/23/2018 at 8:03 PM, Scotty said:

 

 

 

On 7/23/2018 at 11:07 PM, hkmaly said:

Technically, twitter is not canon :)

There's a well-known literary concept called Death of the Author, which says that only the story as presented matters, what's actually present as a part of the work itself, and the author's intentions when writing it or interpretations supplied after the fact carry no more weight than those of any other person interpreting the work.  I must say, there have been a couple of times when I have read something an author said about their work, and really thought they had it wrong, whether they wrote it or not!  ;-)

On 7/23/2018 at 11:07 PM, hkmaly said:

... didn't saw this, but if Dan didn't changed mind since then, then finding out where the clog is and how to fix it might be interesting story possibly involving griffins. THEY know where it is.

Do they know exactly where it is?  Do they know how it was created and/or how to remove it?  I'll look forward to finding out, if this is the course Dan follows!

On 7/24/2018 at 1:30 PM, hkmaly said:

I was speaking about the fact that Dan repeatedly said that only stuff which is actually in comics is canon.

Yeah, I seem to recall more than one occasion where Dan said that it doesn't actually count until it's in the story itself.  Can I remember where he said it?  Of course not!  I guess I'll have to do a big re-read including commentaries....someday....in all my copious spare time.... ;-P

On 7/24/2018 at 1:30 PM, hkmaly said:

Hmmm ... while possible that they would talk about this as well, I think Sarah really wants to talk about Pandora and not the vampires. Susan's "there's more to it than that" is only reason why would she suspect it's this much connected ... on the other hand Sarah is good at guessing ...

Once they start talking, all sorts of information could be exchanged, but I agree, it's Pandora that Sarah wants to talk about with Adrian.

On 7/24/2018 at 1:30 PM, hkmaly said:

Is that really that hard? Like, sure, it probably requires some level of magic and knowledge, but I don't think there would be something specific that Pandora needed to say.

And, Andrea might've been able to remove the clog herself if Sarah would already work on reducing the pressure. Maybe. Maybe not.

Exactly.  We don't really have enough information to know one way or the other about any of this, but it's fun to speculate!

On 7/24/2018 at 1:47 PM, Scotty said:

Dan was mainly referring to things that people may speculate on like the characters' sex lives because he isn't sure himself whether they'd have done something or not so he doesn't want to say either way and then later be like "Oh wait, they could have totally done that already".

I'm pretty sure I've seen him say things aren't canon until they appear in the story in regard to other things, too.  I know most places I see the word canon used, it means the work itself, and the main debates are about things like whether Pottermore or The Cursed Child count as part of the canon or not, not about whether what Jo said in an interview counts (everyone usually agrees it's important and interesting but not canon).

On 7/24/2018 at 1:47 PM, Scotty said:

In Pandora's case, it's going to be a while before we see her again, she likely won't be back before the griffins return, and there's no guarantee that she'd remember what needed to be done, she certainly wouldn't have the power to assist with anything that wouldn't break Immortal Law again.

Hmm, it was about six months before we saw Jerry/Zeus again, but we don't know how much of that delay was him being unable to appear, and how much was his just not being a part of this story.  I hope that when she can come back, the first place she goes is to see her son.  Whether she manifests to him, or just watches and decides to wait to interfere, we'll have to see.

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Just now, CritterKeeper said:

Hmm, it was about six months before we saw Jerry/Zeus again, but we don't know how much of that delay was him being unable to appear, and how much was his just not being a part of this story.  I hope that when she can come back, the first place she goes is to see her son.  Whether she manifests to him, or just watches and decides to wait to interfere, we'll have to see.

Jerry/Zeus was certainly not out for the whole six months though, we only first saw Zeus on New Years Eve, approximately 3 weeks ago comic time, but Zeus told Diane that he'd been following her and Susan for months. Jerry did tell Susan that he'd be out for a few weeks though, so it couldn't have been more than 2 months or else he should have said out for a couple or few months.

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3 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
On 7/23/2018 at 2:03 PM, Scotty said:

Pandora never told Adrian where the clog was or how to remove it, she was planning on being there when the time came to guide him through the process. Adrian, or someone else, will have to figure it out.

I hope he's up to figuring it out, possibly with griffin help, but I do wonder whether it's really as critical as it was before the not-a-reset.  The main reason Pandora was ready to reverse what she'd done was for fear of causing a reset, after all.

... true, however there was also the bit about it attracting all sort of monsters and griffins had their own reason to fix it.

3 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
On 7/24/2018 at 6:07 AM, hkmaly said:

Technically, twitter is not canon :)

There's a well-known literary concept called Death of the Author, which says that only the story as presented matters, what's actually present as a part of the work itself, and the author's intentions when writing it or interpretations supplied after the fact carry no more weight than those of any other person interpreting the work.  I must say, there have been a couple of times when I have read something an author said about their work, and really thought they had it wrong, whether they wrote it or not!  ;-)

You should warn explicitly when linking tvtropes.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Hmm, it was about six months before we saw Jerry/Zeus again, but we don't know how much of that delay was him being unable to appear, and how much was his just not being a part of this story.  I hope that when she can come back, the first place she goes is to see her son.  Whether she manifests to him, or just watches and decides to wait to interfere, we'll have to see.

Jerry/Zeus was certainly not out for the whole six months though, we only first saw Zeus on New Years Eve, approximately 3 weeks ago comic time, but Zeus told Diane that he'd been following her and Susan for months. Jerry did tell Susan that he'd be out for a few weeks though, so it couldn't have been more than 2 months or else he should have said out for a couple or few months.

Note also that the way Pandora reset could make her timeout longer ... or shorter. Also note that since start of year, Dan was very careful to not provide exact dates, possibly because saying if there was February 29th that year would be equivalent to saying which year the story takes place in (current candidates for start of comics are 2002, 2013 and 2019. 2003 and 2014 are not leap years, 2020 is ... ).

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9 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Note also that the way Pandora reset could make her timeout longer ... or shorter. Also note that since start of year, Dan was very careful to not provide exact dates, possibly because saying if there was February 29th that year would be equivalent to saying which year the story takes place in (current candidates for start of comics are 2002, 2013 and 2019. 2003 and 2014 are not leap years, 2020 is ... ).

Well Dan did say that while the comic would possibly take place sometime after Star Trek 2009, but before The Force Awakens, if there was a point where a date doesn't match up, like February 29th happening in 2014, then "alternate universe" logic could be applied.

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4 minutes ago, Scotty said:
17 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Note also that the way Pandora reset could make her timeout longer ... or shorter. Also note that since start of year, Dan was very careful to not provide exact dates, possibly because saying if there was February 29th that year would be equivalent to saying which year the story takes place in (current candidates for start of comics are 2002, 2013 and 2019. 2003 and 2014 are not leap years, 2020 is ... ).

Well Dan did say that while the comic would possibly take place sometime after Star Trek 2009, but before The Force Awakens, if there was a point where a date doesn't match up, like February 29th happening in 2014, then "alternate universe" logic could be applied.

... I don't think Dan is the type of author who would try to create his own calendar.

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13 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

... I don't think Dan is the type of author who would try to create his own calendar.

Why not?  Creating a calendar is actually pretty easy.

Making it align with events outside your control and getting other people to use it takes some effort.
But simply making a calendar is almost as simple as counting and drawing straight lines.  Just ask Arnold Rimmer.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

... I don't think Dan is the type of author who would try to create his own calendar.

He kinda did get int that position though when he put dates to moments in comic and people were able to match them with 2002's calendar year. I know he hasn't done it since Family Tree but he hasn't indicated that there was a significant time skip between that and Identity and we know Identity runs right into Squirrel Prophet, So A Date and Sister 3 without any skipping.

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