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The Old Hack

Story Wednesday September 26, 2018

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So Diane is probably going to seek out Justin. Too bad she hasn't noticed that Lucy is the one that's really hurting now. However, it's possible Justin, being Justin, will have noticed the dynamic between Lucy and Diane by now, and either has some kind of relationship with Rhoda or at least knows about Rhoda and Catalina from Susan. Birds of a feather. And there is that Xena skirt Lucy is actually wearing to school today.

There's also the fact that Justin works at a comic book and game store. Remember when Susan took Catalina to Salty Crackers in the spring break just after the earthquake? Justin told Catalina there were some nerd girls playing a Xena RPG in back. Possibly Lucy might have been one of them.

However, since Diane hasn't yet realized how upset Lucy is, the elephant is still definitely there...

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... is the elephant still there? :)

This whole Legend arc is an elephant through and through.

53 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

We should all be grateful that mirrors do not let us see ourselves as we actually are.

Technology... :demonicduck: 

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Just now, Tom Sewell said:

or at least knows about Rhoda and Catalina from Susan.

More like he's figured it out from Grace. There can probably only be one person that Justin knows that fits the description. Ellen figured it out and heck, Elliot hasn't actually met Rhoda and figured out she was Catalina's girlfriend. Susan was of course the first to find out cus she learned it from the source despite attempts to keep it secret, and it's probably because of why Catalina wanted it kept secret that Susan would have likely felt that it'd be wrong to tell others especially considering what Justin had told her.

It's possible that everyone (even Diane, the person Rhoda most wanted to not find out about her liking girls)figured it out on their own because both Catalina and Rhoda were bad at hiding their relationship.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

It's possible that everyone (even Diane, the person Rhoda most wanted to not find out about her liking girls)figured it out on their own because both Catalina and Rhoda were bad at hiding their relationship.

They're bad at hiding their relationship, but surprisingly good at hiding their magic.

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3 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

We should all be grateful that mirrors do not let us see ourselves as we actually are.

I cannot really agree. Painful as it often is, I prefer truth to illusion. And Quixotic though it may be, I've spent a lot of my life looking for the right sort of mirrors.

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9 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

It is well known that a mirror reflects a flat and reversed image of the observer.

We should all be grateful that mirrors do not let us see ourselves as we actually are.

 

8 hours ago, Stature said:

Technology... :demonicduck: 

 

4 hours ago, Drachefly said:

Two mirrors…

More specifically, two mirrors that meet at a 90° angle.  Stand in the middle of that angle (the 45° point) and you get a reversed mirror image.

I want one of these!  :-)

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8 hours ago, Scotty said:

More like he's figured it out from Grace. There can probably only be one person that Justin knows that fits the description. Ellen figured it out and heck, Elliot hasn't actually met Rhoda and figured out she was Catalina's girlfriend. Susan was of course the first to find out cus she learned it from the source despite attempts to keep it secret, and it's probably because of why Catalina wanted it kept secret that Susan would have likely felt that it'd be wrong to tell others especially considering what Justin had told her.

It's possible that everyone (even Diane, the person Rhoda most wanted to not find out about her liking girls)figured it out on their own because both Catalina and Rhoda were bad at hiding their relationship.

That's some crunchy analysis there, pardner. So it's true that there doesn't seem to be any definitive proof in canon that Justin actually knows that Rhoda is Catalina's girlfriend, it's incredibly plausible that he either does definitely know by now, or has guessed correctly. So Dan can go either way if and when he decides that question is important to future plot development.

10 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

It is well known that a mirror reflects a flat and reversed image of the observer.

We should all be grateful that mirrors do not let us see ourselves as we actually are.

I don't think so. If your webcam is working, try combing your hair using the image of yourself on the screen. This is why backup cameras on cars are required to flip the image horizontally so like a mirror. BTW, backup cameras are now required equipment on new cars in the USA, which should cut down a bit on toddlers getting run over. 

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1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:
11 hours ago, Scotty said:

More like he's figured it out from Grace. There can probably only be one person that Justin knows that fits the description. Ellen figured it out and heck, Elliot hasn't actually met Rhoda and figured out she was Catalina's girlfriend. Susan was of course the first to find out cus she learned it from the source despite attempts to keep it secret, and it's probably because of why Catalina wanted it kept secret that Susan would have likely felt that it'd be wrong to tell others especially considering what Justin had told her.

It's possible that everyone (even Diane, the person Rhoda most wanted to not find out about her liking girls)figured it out on their own because both Catalina and Rhoda were bad at hiding their relationship.

That's some crunchy analysis there, pardner. So it's true that there doesn't seem to be any definitive proof in canon that Justin actually knows that Rhoda is Catalina's girlfriend, it's incredibly plausible that he either does definitely know by now, or has guessed correctly. So Dan can go either way if and when he decides that question is important to future plot development.

Justin is unlikely to know EVERY person in school, meaning that just because Rhoda fits the description he can't be sure it's her. He can have suspicion, though.

Diane, meanwhile? She has good reason to be sure.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:
12 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

It is well known that a mirror reflects a flat and reversed image of the observer.

We should all be grateful that mirrors do not let us see ourselves as we actually are.

I don't think so. If your webcam is working, try combing your hair using the image of yourself on the screen. This is why backup cameras on cars are required to flip the image horizontally so like a mirror. BTW, backup cameras are now required equipment on new cars in the USA, which should cut down a bit on toddlers getting run over. 

I think Pharaoh RutinTutin was speaking metaphorically. Like that famous picture.

Just tried my smartphone. The image is already flipped by default.

BTW, I wasn't aware there are so many toddlers getting run over in USA.

 

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3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

BTW, I wasn't aware there are so many toddlers getting run over in USA.

About a hundred kids a year are killed by backovers, and thousands are injured. I've always been aware of this because in the county I used to live in in Idaho when I was a child, the richest man in the county killed his grandson by backing over him. Big news in a county that's never had more than a few thousand residents. How rich was he? He had his own aircraft and his own airport.

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6 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

About a hundred kids a year are killed by backovers, and thousands are injured. I've always been aware of this because in the county I used to live in in Idaho when I was a child, the richest man in the county killed his grandson by backing over him. Big news in a county that's never had more than a few thousand residents. How rich was he? He had his own aircraft and his own airport.

Yeah, another cause of death I hear about all too often is forgetting the baby is in their car seat, usually due to some break in routine combined with the baby sleeping quietly, and leaving then in the car which then overheats in the sun.  It's not generally neglectful or uncaring parents this happens to, quite the opposite.  Our brains apparently have a regrettable tendency to check off items on our mental to do list based on what we usually do, instead of what's happening on a non-routine day.

Sadly there are a lot of important lessons to be learned from the misfortune of others.  I've always made sure to keep the back door into the garage locked ever since hearing about how Steve Wynn's daughter was kidnapped by men who got in by triggering her garage door to open, and then walking right into her home through the unlocked back door that connected the garage to the house.

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2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Yeah, another cause of death I hear about all too often is forgetting the baby is in their car seat, usually due to some break in routine combined with the baby sleeping quietly, and leaving then in the car which then overheats in the sun.  It's not generally neglectful or uncaring parents this happens to, quite the opposite.  Our brains apparently have a regrettable tendency to check off items on our mental to do list based on what we usually do, instead of what's happening on a non-routine day.

Some of that would also be a case of "I'll just be a few seconds" where the parent plans on being in and out of someplace and so doesn't want to go through the hassle of getting the baby out and then putting them back in moments later.

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50 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Some of that would also be a case of "I'll just be a few seconds" where the parent plans on being in and out of someplace and so doesn't want to go through the hassle of getting the baby out and then putting them back in moments later.

We had a variation of this happen in Denmark. A mother decided to visit a store and left her two kids, four and five years old, peacefully snoozing beneath a blanket on the back seat. While she was gone a car thief stole the car, not noticing the children. When he did spot them he decided this was too much -- he was a car thief, not a kidnapper. He asked the children where they lived and drove them home where he dropped them off with a neighbour who happened to be home at the time. Sadly for him the police was already in the area and he got arrested when he tried to leave in the stolen car.

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3 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

We had a variation of this happen in Denmark. A mother decided to visit a store and left her two kids, four and five years old, peacefully snoozing beneath a blanket on the back seat. While she was gone a car thief stole the car, not noticing the children. When he did spot them he decided this was too much -- he was a car thief, not a kidnapper. He asked the children where they lived and drove them home where he dropped them off with a neighbour who happened to be home at the time. Sadly for him the police was already in the area and he got arrested when he tried to leave in the stolen car.

Wow, even your car thieves are nice guys, giving the kids a lift home and making sure a neighbor was there to look after them!

I do believe that sort of thing could happen here, too, but the news media seems to prefer running the sort of story where the thief abandons the car with the kids still inside of it (see heat death discusdions), or makes them get out by the side of the road wherever they happened to be when he realized they were there, or somesuch.  Statistics say we are much safer and less likely to be the victims of crime, violent or otherwise, than previous generations, but because the media tells us everything about every dramatic crime in the country, our perception is that we're all in more danger than they felt that they were.

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3 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Wow, even your car thieves are nice guys, giving the kids a lift home and making sure a neighbor was there to look after them!

To be fair this is not just in Denmark. A lot of criminals have lines they don't like to cross. Some of which, truth be told, are there to protect themselves. If the guy had been thinking instead of panicking, he might have considered the calculus of being wanted for stealing a car versus being wanted for kidnapping two children. The latter scenario means huge manhunt with police everywhere looking for you. Not a good thing if all you want is to unload a hot car.

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14 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Yeah, another cause of death I hear about all too often is forgetting the baby is in their car seat, usually due to some break in routine combined with the baby sleeping quietly, and leaving then in the car which then overheats in the sun.  It's not generally neglectful or uncaring parents this happens to, quite the opposite.  Our brains apparently have a regrettable tendency to check off items on our mental to do list based on what we usually do, instead of what's happening on a non-routine day.

I wonder what kind of hardware would be mandatory installed in all cars (including cars of bachelors, hey, what if they get lucky later?) to prevent this. Another kind of camera? Some detector which would recognize the baby and make noise (waking it up) if you try to close doors with baby still in? ... air conditioning?

3 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

A lot of criminals have lines they don't like to cross. Some of which, truth be told, are there to protect themselves. If the guy had been thinking instead of panicking, he might have considered the calculus of being wanted for stealing a car versus being wanted for kidnapping two children. The latter scenario means huge manhunt with police everywhere looking for you. Not a good thing if all you want is to unload a hot car.

There would still probably be safer courses of action for him. While leaving the children on random road will likely mean police will find him sooner than the children, there must be plenty of places he can safely put them and make sure they call home immediately. Then, floor it.

... obviously, if the children got good look at him, he might be caught regardless ... so, obviously, he also needs some sort of costume which makes the children overlook how he actually looks. Santa Claus? Clown? Darth Vader?

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3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

There would still probably be safer courses of action for him. While leaving the children on random road will likely mean police will find him sooner than the children, there must be plenty of places he can safely put them and make sure they call home immediately. Then, floor it.

... obviously, if the children got good look at him, he might be caught regardless ... so, obviously, he also needs some sort of costume which makes the children overlook how he actually looks. Santa Claus? Clown? Darth Vader?

Good points all. Mind you, from what I read I think the poor idiot was simply conscience-stricken and wanted to put the children somewhere as close to their home as possible without actually ringing the doorbell to the place itself. That last might have seemed understandably awkward to him. "Uh, ma'am? Sorry for kidnapping your children, it was an accident, I just wanted your car." :icon_eek:

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13 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

 Statistics say we are much safer and less likely to be the victims of crime, violent or otherwise, than previous generations, but because the media tells us everything about every dramatic crime in the country, our perception is that we're all in more danger than they felt that they were.

In the days before telecommunications, newspapers would not even report on wars that one's own nation or its allies were not engaged in--if there was a war between China and Mongolia or whatever, then the person-on-the-street in the West would not even hear about it unless they were involved in trans-ocean trade. Nowadays we hear about every murder everywhere, and it skews our perceptions. Note for example how many people are afraid of aircraft crashes despite the death toll being a hundred times less than that for automobile crashes. This is because we hear about literally every airliner crash in the whole world (less than a dozen per year!) and not the half-million automobile traffic deaths (even though automobile traffic collisions are the number one cause of accidental death).

5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I wonder what kind of hardware would be mandatory installed in all cars (including cars of bachelors, hey, what if they get lucky later?) to prevent this. Another kind of camera? Some detector which would recognize the baby and make noise (waking it up) if you try to close doors with baby still in? ... air conditioning?

Cheapest to implement would be some combination of weight/seatbelt sensors--any weight on the seats sufficient to be a possible human yet with seatbelt disengaged could trigger a "no seatbelts" beep when the driver door is open, while any engaged seatbelts combined with a more-than-newborn but less-than-adult weight (e.g. anything between 5 and 40 kilograms) could trigger a separate "child in seat" beep.

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1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

Good points all. Mind you, from what I read I think the poor idiot was simply conscience-stricken and wanted to put the children somewhere as close to their home as possible

Yeah ... lot of people have trouble thinking logically when in similar situations. I might be less likely to think logically myself if in such situation instead of reading about it. I'm sure I would realize it later, though. You know, when already late.

Even like this, I'm not sure what place would be good to safely put them without risking ... I'm just sure there are plenty of places like that :)

Hmmm ... maybe hospital?

School or community center if some after-school activity is in progress there, with some luck I might be able to drop them to some organizer and be away before that organizer realize those kids are not supposed to be there. For bonus points, he might be convinced I just mixed up the place and they are supposed to be at similar after-school activity elsewhere. Disadvantage: there are just limited hours when this is possible, and requires knowledge of what hours it is around.

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

without actually ringing the doorbell to the place itself. That last might have seemed understandably awkward to him. "Uh, ma'am? Sorry for kidnapping your children, it was an accident, I just wanted your car."

I'm not exactly sure how he explained himself to the neighbor.

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59 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I'm not exactly sure how he explained himself to the neighbor.

Probably badly. He did get caught by the police shortly afterwards, so maybe the neighbour got on the phone to them very quickly after he left.

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16 hours ago, The Old Hack said:
17 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm not exactly sure how he explained himself to the neighbor.

Probably badly. He did get caught by the police shortly afterwards, so maybe the neighbour got on the phone to them very quickly after he left.

... I though some policeman noticed the car while he was unloading the kids.

17 hours ago, ijuin said:

Note for example how many people are afraid of aircraft crashes despite the death toll being a hundred times less than that for automobile crashes. This is because we hear about literally every airliner crash in the whole world (less than a dozen per year!) and not the half-million automobile traffic deaths (even though automobile traffic collisions are the number one cause of accidental death).

... not that automobile traffic deaths are not reported. I think the reason is different here: people are afraid of airliner crash because they are not driving it. In car, when driving, they are under illusion that their superior driving ability can save them from collision (which is generally incorrect for two reasons: first, they don't have superior driving ability, second, even if they would have, there are plenty of crashes where it wouldn't help them).

17 hours ago, ijuin said:
23 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I wonder what kind of hardware would be mandatory installed in all cars (including cars of bachelors, hey, what if they get lucky later?) to prevent this. Another kind of camera? Some detector which would recognize the baby and make noise (waking it up) if you try to close doors with baby still in? ... air conditioning?

Cheapest to implement would be some combination of weight/seatbelt sensors--any weight on the seats sufficient to be a possible human yet with seatbelt disengaged could trigger a "no seatbelts" beep when the driver door is open, while any engaged seatbelts combined with a more-than-newborn but less-than-adult weight (e.g. anything between 5 and 40 kilograms) could trigger a separate "child in seat" beep.

There are plenty of cases when it's totally OK to have child on seat while opening driver door. Although ... maybe warn if you are trying to lock car with someone inside?

Of course, sometimes seatbelts are used to secure baggage (much better than leaving it unsecured, in fact).

 

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3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... I though some policeman noticed the car while he was unloading the kids.

The article didn't specify, merely saying that he was picked up shortly afterwards. I figured they noticed the car but it is also possible they got a tip. Still, you're right, the former is more probable.

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