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The Old Hack

Story Monday October 1, 2018

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http://egscomics.com/comic/tlod-019

Hey, mix both styles and everything is dandy by me.

Also, "comfort-bad"? Missy, wait a few more months. Or just look at present Diane.

Also also, Diane needs Sarah's powers. Skipped one class already?!? :D 

5'6" (168 cm) and 12? I need a growth chart, stat. Not that I did not need one 4 comics ago...:demonicduck: 

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... was she talking to herself WHOLE HOUR?

Also, yeah, her 12 year old self considers missing class bigger problem than current Diane ... makes sense.

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Me reading the comic: Hey...did Dan accidentally draw Diane flat chested in the first panel?

Me reading the commentary: Oh! He made her younger as if she's imagining herself that way.

 

I wonder if we're going to know which classes she's missed at some point

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Okay, so my change-blindness here was so strong that even after reading the commentary I had no idea what Dan was talking about; I wound up thinking "But hasn't he been drawing Diane's reflection this young all along?". It was only when I look back and confirmed I was right, then started really looking at the comic trying to figure out what he meant that I realized that he drew non-reflection Diane differently up until the final panel.

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6 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Okay, so my change-blindness here was so strong that even after reading the commentary I had no idea what Dan was talking about; I wound up thinking "But hasn't he been drawing Diane's reflection this young all along?". It was only when I look back and confirmed I was right, then started really looking at the comic trying to figure out what he meant that I realized that he drew non-reflection Diane differently up until the final panel.

The reflection said she was Diane's inner child in her first comic.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

I wonder if we're going to know which classes she's missed at some point

I'm wondering how Diane could stand in the same place for an hour without someone asking what she was doing. Maybe like The Shadow she now has the power to cloud men's minds, meaning people don't register seeing her? Or maybe Dan didn't consider that when he decided to make the last panel.

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1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:
11 hours ago, Scotty said:

I wonder if we're going to know which classes she's missed at some point

I'm wondering how Diane could stand in the same place for an hour without someone asking what she was doing. Maybe like The Shadow she now has the power to cloud men's minds, meaning people don't register seeing her? Or maybe Dan didn't consider that when he decided to make the last panel.

It IS possible she is somewhere where noone else looked for whole hour ... possible, but unlikely.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

It IS possible she is somewhere where noone else looked for whole hour ... possible, but unlikely.

Either we just believe the alternative happened, which is pretty much what we were doing, or go with the first explanation and she only spent like 5 minutes talking to herself.

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27 minutes ago, Scotty said:
43 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It IS possible she is somewhere where noone else looked for whole hour ... possible, but unlikely.

Either we just believe the alternative happened, which is pretty much what we were doing, or go with the first explanation and she only spent like 5 minutes talking to herself.

Well, it's not like there is some narration "after class" on this comic. It could easily be understood like it's directly after this one and she was following Rhoda but stopped to stare at a window. And yell.

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18 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Either we just believe the alternative happened, which is pretty much what we were doing, or go with the first explanation and she only spent like 5 minutes talking to herself.

When the bell rang earlier, Lucy left Diane saying "We're late for class."  NOT "We're GOING TO BE late for class". What Dan put in Lucy's mouth wasn't quite appropriate for the "Six Minutes To Get Your Ass To Class" bell that we all should know begins each school day at MSHS, not a nuclear attack (Actually in October 1962 we did have a bell at my school for that for some reason--five shorts.). I've been assuming that the first real-time part of this arc is set when Diane has just arrived at school, which seems logical, since neither Rhoda nor Lucy seem to have seen Diane with her new haircut and outfit. But it is possible this scene could have taken place between classes. But if Rhoda meant exactly what she said and was right about that, that bell would have been the start of the next class period. And when would the next bell after that ring it was? At the end of that class period. But Diane says to herself in the last panel of today's comic that she's late for ANOTHER class. Either she can't count or someone forgot to ring a bell, possibly Dan.

But wait! Could it be that the change in magic has also removed the ban on Time Travel? Could this anomaly be the result of Diane travelling back in time like Marty McFly did in Back to The Future 2 where he's in the some scenes with his earlier from Back to the Future 1?  Will Susan's Vulcan-eared shoulder-fairy Logic appear to advise Diane?

Possibly that is a crackpot theory too amazing even for me to buy into it.

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There is also the possibility that students at MSHS have homeroom separate from their first actual class, so they would go to homeroom, and THEN after the homeroom stuff has finished, they go to their class.

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5 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

But if Rhoda meant exactly what she said and was right about that, that bell would have been the start of the next class period. And when would the next bell after that ring it was? At the end of that class period. But Diane says to herself in the last panel of today's comic that she's late for ANOTHER class. Either she can't count or someone forgot to ring a bell, possibly Dan.

To be fair, bell ringing is NOT an event which would need to be shown unless story relevant. But you have a point that if the comics would be SUPPOSED to depict Diane spending whole hour there, then the bell ending the class WOULD be story relevant and therefore should be shown.

5 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

But wait! Could it be that the change in magic has also removed the ban on Time Travel?

No. The ban on time travel is supported by meta reasons (specifically, Dan being afraid Tedd would acquire mean to time travel and will use it to undo any problems) and therefore unlikely to ever be lifted.

48 minutes ago, ijuin said:

There is also the possibility that students at MSHS have homeroom separate from their first actual class, so they would go to homeroom, and THEN after the homeroom stuff has finished, they go to their class.

Homewhat? .... reading ... there is special period so students can pledge allegiance? Like, every day? Isn't it little overboard?

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Basically, Homeroom is used for all of those things that a school wants the students to do that aren't attached to a specific class/subject. Homeroom is also used for distributing paper hardcopies of announcements, for listening to the morning announcement/school news over the Public Address system, and for taking daily attendance. Most students have a "Homeroom Teacher", who is responsible for them in a greater capacity than their other teachers. Many schools combine this "Homeroom" activity with a morning class (mine had an extra 15 minutes tacked onto the first period for it), but some have it as a separate thing.

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1 hour ago, ijuin said:

Basically, Homeroom is used for all of those things that a school wants the students to do that aren't attached to a specific class/subject. Homeroom is also used for distributing paper hardcopies of announcements, for listening to the morning announcement/school news over the Public Address system, and for taking daily attendance. Most students have a "Homeroom Teacher", who is responsible for them in a greater capacity than their other teachers. Many schools combine this "Homeroom" activity with a morning class (mine had an extra 15 minutes tacked onto the first period for it), but some have it as a separate thing.

We did have the equivalent of "Homeroom Teacher", but no specific time period attached to it, part of class or not. There wasn't that many news, so if that shortened first class by few minutes it was considered acceptable. (We definitely didn't mind.) Attendance ... hmmm ... I guess attendance was same case, as I'm sure it was being done, although my memory considers weird that it would be done every day ... probably unreliable memory.

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Attendance is taken every day in most USA public schools because schools have to verify the students' presence every single day due to government funding being dependent on the students' presence. If a student is absent on a given day, then the school gets no funding for that student for that day. Thus, some schools also have zero-tolerance disciplinary measures for student absences.

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3 hours ago, hkmaly said:
8 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

But wait! Could it be that the change in magic has also removed the ban on Time Travel?

No. The ban on time travel is supported by meta reasons (specifically, Dan being afraid Tedd would acquire mean to time travel and will use it to undo any problems) and therefore unlikely to ever be lifted.

That was a sarcastic joke, my friend. I guess I need to borrow Grace's JOKE sign. My point was for Diane to actually be late for another class she would have to have missed the class before that class. The absence of a bell between the two that Dan actually put in the arc (so far) can't mean that there was only a short period between those bells for both Lucy's and Diane's statements to be true. Maybe Dan just forgot to put the thrid bell in; maybe he decided it would interrupt the flow of the story and no one would notice; maybe he thought we would all decide he just left out the third bell because it really wasn't important; maybe Dan actually meant to imply that by Diane was so absorbed in reflection she not only didn't notice how much time had passed but the third bell, which would been as loud as the one she just heard.

The basic problem for Diane since TLoD's first comic set in the story's present, Monday morning at MSHS is that Diane managed not to be conscious of the horrible reputation she'd had for years,. Spacing out for a mere hour isn't much compared to that; much smaller elephant!

 

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15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

No. The ban on time travel is supported by meta reasons (specifically, Dan being afraid Tedd would acquire mean to time travel and will use it to undo any problems) and therefore unlikely to ever be lifted.

As a fan of Gargoyles, it's a little odd Dan hasn't thought of the obvious solution to this: make it so the chains of causality can't be broken (in other words, make it so it's impossible to change history). ...Preferably without the blatant predestination paradoxes the Gargoyles writers liked to throw in.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Dan has recently edited this comic to indicate that Diane did in fact make it to her previous class.

I'm not sure about the caption; it messes with the composition of the panel and sounds a bit clunky. The part of me that always wants to know when things happen is glad to have the timing clarified, but strictly speaking I'm not sure it was necessary: does it really matter if Diane missed a class entirely or was merely late for two classes?

I'm very happy by the change to her reflection though; while it's not super important whether this is taking place in a hallway with windows or a bathroom with mirrors, the fact remains that it was meant to be windows and the art did not reflect that properly. (Pun not intended.)

13 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

EGS Special Edition Strikes Back.  Again.

Lest we forget, SARAH SHOT FIRST!

And Susan blatantly hit on "Ellen" (FV5 Elliot) when they first met!

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13 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
16 hours ago, hkmaly said:
21 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

But wait! Could it be that the change in magic has also removed the ban on Time Travel?

No. The ban on time travel is supported by meta reasons (specifically, Dan being afraid Tedd would acquire mean to time travel and will use it to undo any problems) and therefore unlikely to ever be lifted.

That was a sarcastic joke, my friend. I guess I need to borrow Grace's JOKE sign.

I did get it was joke, but reacted regardless because I wasn't sure everyone else would realize it.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Dan has recently edited this comic to indicate that Diane did in fact make it to her previous class.

Added on list of retcons.

7 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Or maybe Diane has a history of being late for class and has been threatened with disciplinary action if it continues.

I wouldn't be surprised.

1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:
2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Dan has recently edited this comic...

EGS Special Edition Strikes Back.  Again.

Lest we forget, SARAH SHOT FIRST!

Actually, the thing we need to not forget is that Sarah kissed Elliot when he was FV5.

54 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

And Susan blatantly hit on "Ellen" (FV5 Elliot) when they first met!

Right, that too. Although personally I find Susan here really out of character ... meanwhile, Sarah, given her recent "moving" on kinsey's scale ...

54 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:
16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

No. The ban on time travel is supported by meta reasons (specifically, Dan being afraid Tedd would acquire mean to time travel and will use it to undo any problems) and therefore unlikely to ever be lifted.

As a fan of Gargoyles, it's a little odd Dan hasn't thought of the obvious solution to this: make it so the chains of causality can't be broken (in other words, make it so it's impossible to change history). ...Preferably without the blatant predestination paradoxes the Gargoyles writers liked to throw in.

What would be the difference then? Remember that the instant you inhale in past, you are changing it. Actually, wait, you already changed it by reflecting photons the moment you appeared.

54 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:
2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Dan has recently edited this comic to indicate that Diane did in fact make it to her previous class.

I'm not sure about the caption; it messes with the composition of the panel and sounds a bit clunky. The part of me that always wants to know when things happen is glad to have the timing clarified, but strictly speaking I'm not sure it was necessary: does it really matter if Diane missed a class entirely or was merely late for two classes?

Based on the discussion here, yes it does matter.

 

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37 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Added on list of retcons.

Is it really a retcon if it was the author's intention for something to be a certain way from the beginning but added clarification later?

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19 minutes ago, Scotty said:
58 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Added on list of retcons.

Is it really a retcon if it was the author's intention for something to be a certain way from the beginning but added clarification later?

Considering Dan's stance of "what's not clear from comics is not part of canon", yes.

It removed some possible interpretations from the superposition of comic meanings.

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

What would be the difference then? Remember that the instant you inhale in past, you are changing it. Actually, wait, you already changed it by reflecting photons the moment you appeared.

Well, I used the term "predestination paradox" but that wasn't really accurate; if you accept the idea that the timeline is unchanging there's nothing paradoxical about a causal loop. So there's nothing logically wrong with including them in a story (so long as the story/world doesn't also include instances of history being altered). I'm just tired of writers using them to show off how clever they are.

And if the timeline is unchanging, then breathing or reflecting light in the past isn't changing anything, as you were "always" a part of the past.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Based on the discussion here, yes it does matter.

Well, it's something to argue about discuss, but will it matter in the long run?

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