• Announcements

    • Robin

      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
Sign in to follow this  
Haylo

Story Fridayday November 16, 2018

Recommended Posts

I don't think there is SINGLE movie like that, however it reminds me Lara Croft and her navigation orb, the Golden Compass and also Jack Sparrow had compass like that ... also, yes, major movies are rarely as good as what can people like Sarah (or Dan) plan ... pity Dan can't turn EGS into series with budget somewhere around Game of Thrones one ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I don't think there is SINGLE movie like that, however it reminds me Lara Croft and her navigation orb, the Golden Compass and also Jack Sparrow had compass like that ... also, yes, major movies are rarely as good as what can people like Sarah (or Dan) plan ... pity Dan can't turn EGS into series with budget somewhere around Game of Thrones one ...

Someone tweeted Dan asking if he used the plot of Pirates of the Caribbean 2, Dan said he'd seen it the movie, but didn't recall that part. I guess he subconsciously used that thinking he thought up something original.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When it comes to anything involving a "date", go for the actual thrill aspect.

Also, surely enough, there has to be a bigger reason why the girl should keep on running from them and not just a "golden goose" chase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So a couple of kids can think up a better story than what the big studios actually produce?

Teenagers. Although I suppose even couple of five years old would manage that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/16/2018 at 5:11 AM, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So a couple of kids can think up a better story than what the big studios actually produce?

Is anyone surprised?

Meh, big studios are pathologically afraid of spending money on anything that isn't tried-and-tested unless there's a big-name director behind it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/16/2018 at 7:11 AM, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So a couple of kids can think up a better story than what the big studios actually produce?

Is anyone surprised?

Not surprised that they can come up with a story that they like much better than the studio's.  They are only two individuals, who seem to hve a lot in common when it comes to imagination.  The studio has to try to please a lot more people than that.  And honsetly, I think they do a pretty good job of producing stuff that's enjoyable to watch.  They wade through the slush pile so we don't have to, and if you've ever talked to an editor or publisher about the slush pile, you know how absolutely horrid 99% of it is.  Anything that makes it on the screen has to be in the top 1% on a number of peoples' lists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem arises when the studio gets to the Nth sequel/remake/imitation of a previous work--at that point they are only putting it out because it resembles something that succeeded before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:
On 11/16/2018 at 2:11 PM, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So a couple of kids can think up a better story than what the big studios actually produce?

Is anyone surprised?

Not surprised that they can come up with a story that they like much better than the studio's.  They are only two individuals, who seem to hve a lot in common when it comes to imagination.  The studio has to try to please a lot more people than that.  And honsetly, I think they do a pretty good job of producing stuff that's enjoyable to watch.  They wade through the slush pile so we don't have to, and if you've ever talked to an editor or publisher about the slush pile, you know how absolutely horrid 99% of it is.  Anything that makes it on the screen has to be in the top 1% on a number of peoples' lists.

Seriously? Sure, the studios have it hard because they are trying to hit as large demographics as possible, but they are NOT infallible ; they make mistakes. Also, sometimes it's really better to make fantastic movie for narrower demographics than average movie for wider one.

38 minutes ago, ijuin said:

The problem arises when the studio gets to the Nth sequel/remake/imitation of a previous work--at that point they are only putting it out because it resembles something that succeeded before.

It's not just sequels. They rely on imitations much more than they should. And, often they don't know WHY the previous movie was successful and therefore will repeat incorrect elements ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Not surprised that they can come up with a story that they like much better than the studio's.  They are only two individuals, who seem to have a lot in common when it comes to imagination.  The studio has to try to please a lot more people than that.  And honestly, I think they do a pretty good job of producing stuff that's enjoyable to watch.  They wade through the slush pile so we don't have to, and if you've ever talked to an editor or publisher about the slush pile, you know how absolutely horrid 99% of it is.  Anything that makes it on the screen has to be in the top 1% on a number of peoples' lists.

 

4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Seriously? Sure, the studios have it hard because they are trying to hit as large demographics as possible, but they are NOT infallible ; they make mistakes. Also, sometimes it's really better to make fantastic movie for narrower demographics than average movie for wider one.

Um, show me where I ever even implied that the studios are infallible? Does the term "pretty good" now equal "perfect" and no one told me? (It's possible, just look at what's happened to "literally"....)

All I said was that what we see, however we feel about it, is better than at least 99% of the *other* options the studios had to choose from.  It was a comment in how much *worse* they could be doing, not that everything they did do was somehow perfect.  A lot of people like to bash anything and everything that's popular, but if you look at the list of the top ten most popular movies, or even the top 100, there are some pretty damn fine movies on that list!  The popular taste isn't as bad as the snobs like to think, and I get tired of seeing people bashing things by pointing out they're popular and implying that somehow makes them bad.  Show me a studio that made a movie you don't like, and I can pretty much guarantee they've made some movies you would like, too, and that there are also millions of people out there who did like the movie you didn't, because their tastes and experiences and perspective are different from yours.

Quote

It's not just sequels. They rely on imitations much more than they should. And, often they don't know WHY the previous movie was successful and therefore will repeat incorrect elements ...

My general policy about adaptations and remakes is that they're a good sign the original has some sort of merit and maybe I should read/see the source material.  One of my favorite things is when a book I really liked has an Afterword which goes into what the author's inspirations were!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

One of my favorite things is when a book I really liked has an Afterword which goes into what the author's inspirations were!

Some of mine would be less than exciting...

"We were driving through east Texas, and the name of this one church we drove by startled me. It soon turned out to have a extremely ordinary - and obvious - explanation, but still..." Seriously, that's the origin of one of my worlds (don't have a story for it yet).

"Hey, every religion I know anything about has this one specific thing in common. Atheists like it too. How do I justify a human society reversing it?" I have the first draft of several early scenes of that story done.

"The character names are derived from the town names on exit signs along this (possibly long) section of freeway." My lady and I do that, making up the story, while traveling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Seriously? Sure, the studios have it hard because they are trying to hit as large demographics as possible, but they are NOT infallible ; they make mistakes. Also, sometimes it's really better to make fantastic movie for narrower demographics than average movie for wider one.

Um, show me where I ever even implied that the studios are infallible? Does the term "pretty good" now equal "perfect" and no one told me? (It's possible, just look at what's happened to "literally"....)

All I said was that what we see, however we feel about it, is better than at least 99% of the *other* options the studios had to choose from.  It was a comment in how much *worse* they could be doing, not that everything they did do was somehow perfect.  A lot of people like to bash anything and everything that's popular, but if you look at the list of the top ten most popular movies, or even the top 100, there are some pretty damn fine movies on that list!  The popular taste isn't as bad as the snobs like to think, and I get tired of seeing people bashing things by pointing out they're popular and implying that somehow makes them bad.  Show me a studio that made a movie you don't like, and I can pretty much guarantee they've made some movies you would like, too, and that there are also millions of people out there who did like the movie you didn't, because their tastes and experiences and perspective are different from yours.

I meant that in those 99% they reject, there is at least 2% which would be better than what they actually do, and another 2% which would be very good but just for very specific demographics (EGS is in this category I believe). Sure, the remaining 95% would be worse, and often lot worse.

And, top ten popular movies is not everything with is being done. Sure, this is not case of new StarTrek: it wasn't StarTrek, it wasn't sci-fi, but as an action movie it was quite good, and there is certainly demographics which preferred it that way, making it popular. I'm just not in it. However, there are lot of movies done by even good studios which are VERY bad for ALL demographics. Some are even "direct-to-video" ones.

So, like, you can't rely on studios: to prevent seeing bad movie, you need to also look at some independent reviews and filter some movies out based on that.

14 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
Quote

It's not just sequels. They rely on imitations much more than they should. And, often they don't know WHY the previous movie was successful and therefore will repeat incorrect elements ...

My general policy about adaptations and remakes is that they're a good sign the original has some sort of merit and maybe I should read/see the source material.  One of my favorite things is when a book I really liked has an Afterword which goes into what the author's inspirations were!

That makes sense, because you can have bad remake of good movie, but you rarely have good remake of bad movie because noone would bother ... or at least it wouldn't be PRESENTED as remake (it can be, like, second attempt to make movie based on same book).

Best example of this is Tolkien. Noone even bother to count how many adaptations were before Peter Jacksons: it wasn't presented as their remake, but as another attempt to make movie based on book. And, it is very good idea to read the original. And also to read the afterword - note that only part of that afterword is in the Lord of the Ring books, there is another part called Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-earth and The History of Middle-earth and ... ok, maybe you don't need to read EVERYTHING ...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/1/2018 at 0:17 AM, CritterKeeper said:

They wade through the slush pile so we don't have to, and if you've ever talked to an editor or publisher about the slush pile, you know how absolutely horrid 99% of it is.

Or if you want a taste of something a lot like it, just start reading stories at random from Fanfiction.net or pretty much any other site that lets anybody publish more-or-less whatever they want. I mean there are some gems on sites like that, but finding them takes a lot of luck and/or work (or recommendations from someone else who has had the luck or put in the work).

...This conversation reminded me of how every now and then I get to thinking about how these days there aren't a lot of new movies that interest me enough to see, and how usually the ones that I do take a chance on disappoint me, and I start to feel like Hollywood is going down the drain. Then I remember that while there are a large number of movies I like, the list is only so long because it spans decades; for pretty much any period of a just a few years, there are only a few of my favorites that were produced in that time. So while I may be annoyed with what they've been doing with a lot of my favorite franchises, over-all the good-to-bad movie ratio hasn't really changed all that much.

Edited by ChronosCat
Removed a quote because my second point wasn't really all that related to what I had quoted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

 

And, top ten popular movies is not everything with is being done. Sure, this is not case of new StarTrek: it wasn't StarTrek, it wasn't sci-fi, but as an action movie it was quite good, and there is certainly demographics which preferred it that way, making it popular. I

 

Exactically (sic). It would have been much better if they hadn't have had to force the characters to be Kirk, Spock, etc. and had instead been a new ship and crew.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ChronosCat said:

Every now and then I get to thinking about how these days there aren't a lot of new movies that interest me enough to see, and how usually the ones that I do take a chance on disappoint me, and I start to feel like Hollywood is going down the drain. Then I remember that while there are a large number of movies I like, the list is only so long because it spans decades; for pretty much any period of a just a few years, there are only a few of my favorites that were produced in that time. So while I may be annoyed with what they've been doing with a lot of my favorite franchises, over-all the good-to-bad movie ratio hasn't really changed all that much.

I'm sure the ratio changed. Sure, the number of good movies (in given period of time) is pretty same as it used to be, but the number of bad ones went up.

24 minutes ago, ijuin said:
5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

And, top ten popular movies is not everything with is being done. Sure, this is not case of new StarTrek: it wasn't StarTrek, it wasn't sci-fi, but as an action movie it was quite good, and there is certainly demographics which preferred it that way, making it popular. I

Exactically (sic). It would have been much better if they hadn't have had to force the characters to be Kirk, Spock, etc. and had instead been a new ship and crew.

Avoiding the names Kirk, Spock and Enterprise is still just partial solution. My recommendation would be to not call it Star Trek.

When Enterprise the series started, I was complaining that Andromeda Ascendant is closer to Star Trek than Enterprise. It was exaggeration, and they got at least few better episodes later. However I feel with the new Star Trek movies they are really trying to make that true. If not for the Hercules, they would already achieve it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm sure the ratio changed. Sure, the number of good movies (in given period of time) is pretty same as it used to be, but the number of bad ones went up.

So the number of movies they're making went up? Or are you saying there are fewer mediocre movies now than there used to be?

At any rate what I was saying was a slight simplification; there have been a few periods with more of my favorites than others.  Part of the reason it feels like things have gone downhill for me was because one of the periods with more movies I liked was the mid 2000s to the early 2010s, so we're coming down from a high point. However, the reason that period had so many movies I liked was largely because of the Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter series, which while not perfect did maintain a relatively steady level of quality. And actually, I might still have as many favorites today if I hadn't gotten overwhelmed by how many Marvel Cinematic Universe movies they were putting out and more-or-less thrown my hands up at the entire MCU.

It just occurred to me, another reason it feels like the quality of new movies is going down is that as I get older my standards for what I expect for my entertainment get higher - but I'm often willing to forgive flaws in things I came to love before my standards got so high. (Of course countering that is my love of "so bad it's good" entertainment; it might actually be the case that relative to what I look for there are more mediocre things than there used to be. I usually have to look to previous decades to get my fill of bad special effects, corny dialog, and silly plot twists.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

countering that is my love of "so bad it's good" entertainment; it might actually be the case that relative to what I look for there are more mediocre things than there used to be. I usually have to look to previous decades to get my fill of bad special effects, corny dialog, and silly plot twists.

fv00449.gif

http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff500/fv00449.htm

Freefall by Mark Stanley - 07 February, 2001

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I meant that in those 99% they reject, there is at least 2% which would be better than what they actually do, and another 2% which would be very good but just for very specific demographics (EGS is in this category I believe). Sure, the remaining 95% would be worse, and often lot worse.

I think you're either underestimating the studios, or overestimating the slush pile.  I'd say it might be another 1% that has potential to be good movies, but saying there are twice as many better ones is just an expression of scorn for the studios, not a real number.  Agreed about there being another 2% that would be good niche movies, except that a fair number of those do get made, just by smaller studios.  Of course, picking a topic or work to adapt is only one small part of the process; turning that into a script, choosing actors and directors, adapting the script to suit those actors and directors, shooting the movie with lighting, sound, costuming, etc, editing it all together....there are a lot of things that can go wrong or right.  It's amazing we get so many movies where it all or mostly all works in the end!

21 hours ago, hkmaly said:

And, top ten popular movies is not everything with is being done.

No, but it shows that the "popular taste" isn't as horrible as snobs like to think it is.

17 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Or if you want a taste of something a lot like it, just start reading stories at random from Fanfiction.net or pretty much any other site that lets anybody publish more-or-less whatever they want. I mean there are some gems on sites like that, but finding them takes a lot of luck and/or work (or recommendations from someone else who has had the luck or put in the work).

Yeah, ffnet came to mind immediately, but I wasn't gonna be the first to say it....I've got a few things there and I don't know if I want to know what percentage of readers would put my stuff in which category. ;-)

17 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

...This conversation reminded me of how every now and then I get to thinking about how these days there aren't a lot of new movies that interest me enough to see, and how usually the ones that I do take a chance on disappoint me, and I start to feel like Hollywood is going down the drain. Then I remember that while there are a large number of movies I like, the list is only so long because it spans decades; for pretty much any period of a just a few years, there are only a few of my favorites that were produced in that time. So while I may be annoyed with what they've been doing with a lot of my favorite franchises, over-all the good-to-bad movie ratio hasn't really changed all that much.

Exactly.  Novels show it even moreso, there are an awful lot of books mercifully lost to time which were actually published.

8 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

And actually, I might still have as many favorites today if I hadn't gotten overwhelmed by how many Marvel Cinematic Universe movies they were putting out and more-or-less thrown my hands up at the entire MCU.

Ugh.  How can anyone keep up with all their movies and TV shows, unless it's their full-time job?  I watched the first couple X-men, the first Iron Man, the first season of Jessica Jones, but beyond that?  Too big an avalanche for this poor pebble.

8 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

It just occurred to me, another reason it feels like the quality of new movies is going down is that as I get older my standards for what I expect for my entertainment get higher - but I'm often willing to forgive flaws in things I came to love before my standards got so high. (Of course countering that is my love of "so bad it's good" entertainment; it might actually be the case that relative to what I look for there are more mediocre things than there used to be. I usually have to look to previous decades to get my fill of bad special effects, corny dialog, and silly plot twists.)

Heh.  I've gone back and watched some of some old series I used to watch, from The Tomorrow People to The Fugitive to The Invisible Man to a series on the very first year of the FOX network called Werewolf.  It's fun seeing what things stand out as dated or cliched now, versus what still works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, ChronosCat said:
15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm sure the ratio changed. Sure, the number of good movies (in given period of time) is pretty same as it used to be, but the number of bad ones went up.

So the number of movies they're making went up? Or are you saying there are fewer mediocre movies now than there used to be?

Yes, I meant that the number of movies they're making went up. Are you suggesting it didn't?

8 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

how many Marvel Cinematic Universe movies they were putting out

I didn't saw all of them but I suspect if they didn't run out of good plots they will soon.

3 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:
21 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I meant that in those 99% they reject, there is at least 2% which would be better than what they actually do, and another 2% which would be very good but just for very specific demographics (EGS is in this category I believe). Sure, the remaining 95% would be worse, and often lot worse.

I think you're either underestimating the studios, or overestimating the slush pile.  I'd say it might be another 1% that has potential to be good movies, but saying there are twice as many better ones is just an expression of scorn for the studios, not a real number.

Are you seriously claiming those numbers were expected to be EXACT?

4 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Agreed about there being another 2% that would be good niche movies, except that a fair number of those do get made, just by smaller studio

Doesn't exactly help in case of topics which just need big budget for special effects.

5 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Of course, picking a topic or work to adapt is only one small part of the process; turning that into a script, choosing actors and directors, adapting the script to suit those actors and directors, shooting the movie with lighting, sound, costuming, etc, editing it all together....there are a lot of things that can go wrong or right.

I was counting more-or-less the scripts, actually. Just topic is not that hard if you don't go into details. Although yes, you can make the movie bad even if the script is good.

10 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:
Quote

And actually, I might still have as many favorites today if I hadn't gotten overwhelmed by how many Marvel Cinematic Universe movies they were putting out and more-or-less thrown my hands up at the entire MCU.

Ugh.  How can anyone keep up with all their movies and TV shows, unless it's their full-time job?  I watched the first couple X-men, the first Iron Man, the first season of Jessica Jones, but beyond that?  Too big an avalanche for this poor pebble.

Hence the "number of movies they're making went up". There was time when single person WAS able to keep up with all movies BEING MADE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

There was time when single person WAS able to keep up with all movies BEING MADE.

Back when Thomas Edison made all the movies?

For example. But I think even Lumiere brothers didn't made so many of them ... in fact, I would suspect that you could manage to see all movies up until first world war. Around 1920, there was about 1000 movies made YEARLY, and I suspect their average lengths were below two hours.

... although ... it's true that the number of movies released at cinemas (in, say, US, as I don't think the number is counting India and China) is still below thousand per year. It's the TV and videos/DVD which raises the number.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Yes, I meant that the number of movies they're making went up. Are you suggesting it didn't?

I've never been a huge movie enthusiast. I learn about movies from the trailers played before the handful of movies I see, from commercials that happen show up during the small amount of time I'm watching commercial television, and through pop-culture osmosis. I have absolutely no idea how many movies are being made now, or how many were being made at any previous point in time following the invention of the medium.

If you say there are more now than at some previous point, I'm in no position to argue. However I am curious if this is just your impression or if you have numbers.

15 hours ago, hkmaly said:
15 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
Quote

And actually, I might still have as many favorites today if I hadn't gotten overwhelmed by how many Marvel Cinematic Universe movies they were putting out and more-or-less thrown my hands up at the entire MCU.

Ugh.  How can anyone keep up with all their movies and TV shows, unless it's their full-time job?  I watched the first couple X-men, the first Iron Man, the first season of Jessica Jones, but beyond that?  Too big an avalanche for this poor pebble.

Hence the "number of movies they're making went up". There was time when single person WAS able to keep up with all movies BEING MADE.

I had assumed they were making the Marvel movies instead of making other non-Marvel movies, so the over-all number of movies being made stayed the same. But again, I'm completely uninformed in the matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, ChronosCat said:
On 12/3/2018 at 0:50 AM, hkmaly said:

Yes, I meant that the number of movies they're making went up. Are you suggesting it didn't?

I've never been a huge movie enthusiast. I learn about movies from the trailers played before the handful of movies I see, from commercials that happen show up during the small amount of time I'm watching commercial television, and through pop-culture osmosis. I have absolutely no idea how many movies are being made now, or how many were being made at any previous point in time following the invention of the medium.

If you say there are more now than at some previous point, I'm in no position to argue. However I am curious if this is just your impression or if you have numbers.

I did looked at numbers for that "number of movies in cinemas".

And actually ... there is nice graph on quora. (Remember, if you get overlay on quora, you only need this bookmarklet: javascript:var%20f%20=%20function(){var%20el%20=%20document.querySelector('body');el.className%20=%20el.className.replace(/signup_wall_prevent_scroll/g%20,%20''%20);var%20el%20=%20document.querySelector('.signup_wall_content');while(!el.id%20||%20!el.id.match(/signup_wall_wrapper/))%20el%20=%20el.parentNode;el.parentNode.removeChild(el);};var%20e%20=%20f();)

Not sure where Zachary Brown got that graph but I don't see why not believe him.

Interesting are also graphs on this page on Stephen Follows, according to which the number of Hollywood studio wide releases remains roughly same, but number of other releases goes up.

So yes it seems it mostly goes up ... and that's all just movies. I'm sure if you look at TV series ... well, the number of channels goes up and they all seems full, don't they?

15 hours ago, ChronosCat said:
On 12/3/2018 at 0:50 AM, hkmaly said:

Hence the "number of movies they're making went up". There was time when single person WAS able to keep up with all movies BEING MADE.

I had assumed they were making the Marvel movies instead of making other non-Marvel movies, so the over-all number of movies being made stayed the same. But again, I'm completely uninformed in the matter.

Not sure if specific studio is making more movies. More likely, the number of studios goes up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this