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Tom Sewell

Story Monday, December 24, 2018

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Just now, Tom Sewell said:

http://egscomics.com/comic/tsos-19

I'm guessing Voltaire's just found a new toy to play with. 

Camdin looks like a good candidate for Voltaire to have fun with, but I doubt that's the case right now. Camdin's nosy and suspicious of everything, I don't think he'd even believed that he was marked as a plot to allow Pandora's son to have more freedom.

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As for making Camdin "less hot", in my opinion he wouldn't be hot if you doused him in gasoline and threw a lit match at him.

Which I wouldn't approve of, but would sympathize with the desire.

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Camdin looks like a good candidate for Voltaire to have fun with, but I doubt that's the case right now. Camdin's nosy and suspicious of everything, I don't think he'd even believed that he was marked as a plot to allow Pandora's son to have more freedom.

You're assuming Camdin was marked by Pandora. There's certainly no clue for or against that in canon. But it's pretty clear that Voltaire knows of at least one person that Pandora did mark, which suggests he knows about others and may have marked some people himself.

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Ad the comic: hmmm ... actually, do anyone knows Pandora's motivation? Besides Adrian, who can't be counted as super chick, and even he may not be sure about the whole picture ... Disco Wizard likely already doesn't remember. And it's not like Pandora needed to tell her plan to anyone. Or Voltaire. We were granted much more information of his plan(s) than any person and still have just bits of his plan we think we know how they go together.

Ad the commentary: While the immortal may have additional non-random criteria who to mark, those may not necessary make sense. Like, maybe he plays game and every day marks someone whose name starts with another letter of alphabet. Camlin has no proof Pandora wan't doing Diane and Ellen after him ... (WE know they were never marked, but hard to say how would Luke see Ellen ...)

Also, yes. It was never said that randomly marking people actually HELPED with that Immortal's boredom.

11 hours ago, Scotty said:
17 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

I'm guessing Voltaire's just found a new toy to play with. 

Camdin looks like a good candidate for Voltaire to have fun with, but I doubt that's the case right now. Camdin's nosy and suspicious of everything, I don't think he'd even believed that he was marked as a plot to allow Pandora's son to have more freedom.

Yes, nothing Camdin said so far suggest any Voltaire's influence, but he may be good target in future ...

7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

But it's pretty clear that Voltaire knows of at least one person that Pandora did mark, which suggests he knows about others and may have marked some people himself.

Can he? That thing with controlling Dex was nice show of bending rules, but it's possible he's not powerful (or clever) enough to copy Pandora's trick of marking someone without talking to him.

8 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

As for making Camdin "less hot", in my opinion he wouldn't be hot if you doused him in gasoline and threw a lit match at him.

In such situation, I suppose he would definitely prefer not being hot.

 

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8 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

You're assuming Camdin was marked by Pandora. There's certainly no clue for or against that in canon. But it's pretty clear that Voltaire knows of at least one person that Pandora did mark, which suggests he knows about others and may have marked some people himself.

It was assumed by Grace that it was the same Immortal marking everyone, I would imagine that was the general belief among the rest of them, and they haven't seen evidence that the marks were given by more than one Immortal. So if Luke or Camdin did press Justin into telling more after Justin eventually got told by Tedd and/or Susan, it'd likely be the "an Immortal who wanted her son to have more freedom to help people, marked people to increase awareness of magic" story.

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22 hours ago, Scotty said:

It was assumed by Grace that it was the same Immortal marking everyone, I would imagine that was the general belief among the rest of them, and they haven't seen evidence that the marks were given by more than one Immortal. So if Luke or Camdin did press Justin into telling more after Justin eventually got told by Tedd and/or Susan, it'd likely be the "an Immortal who wanted her son to have more freedom to help people, marked people to increase awareness of magic" story.

Yes ; even if Voltaire marked someone, Justin has no way to know and no reason to suspect. (And same is true for rest of cast ... Including Adrian, actually. BTW Adrian doesn't even know yet that the attack on Noah was orchestrated by Voltaire and not Pandora.)

I don't think Justin would be so easy to convince to tell more, though. Even if he would reveal the "increase awareness of magic", given the obviousness of question "who's her son?", I would expect he would withhold that to protect Adrian.

Also, staying with "to increase awareness of magic" opens the possibility of suggesting that they should lay low to sabotage that plan. Not that it would help much ...

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On 12/24/2018 at 7:52 PM, hkmaly said:

Ad the comic: hmmm ... actually, do anyone knows Pandora's motivation? Besides Adrian, who can't be counted as super chick, and even he may not be sure about the whole picture ... Disco Wizard likely already doesn't remember. And it's not like Pandora needed to tell her plan to anyone.

Did she tell her motives to Sarah or to Tedd?  I'd have to go back and re-read bits that would doubtless suck me into far more re-reading than I should get sucked into right now....

On 12/24/2018 at 0:26 PM, Tom Sewell said:

You're assuming Camdin was marked by Pandora. There's certainly no clue for or against that in canon. But it's pretty clear that Voltaire knows of at least one person that Pandora did mark, which suggests he knows about others and may have marked some people himself.

If Voltaire could mark people himself, wouldn't we have seen more evidence of him doing so?  He could have framed Pandora for a lot more than just manipulating Dex.

On 12/24/2018 at 10:11 PM, Scotty said:

It was assumed by Grace that it was the same Immortal marking everyone, I would imagine that was the general belief among the rest of them, and they haven't seen evidence that the marks were given by more than one Immortal. So if Luke or Camdin did press Justin into telling more after Justin eventually got told by Tedd and/or Susan, it'd likely be the "an Immortal who wanted her son to have more freedom to help people, marked people to increase awareness of magic" story.

It does seem like Elliot is the only one who's even considered that other Immortals could mark people, and that was only to think of asking them to help transgender people, not to wonder if they've been marking others the way Pandora had.  However, Noah's reaction to the idea of an Immortal marking someone without asking or telling them makes it seem like such behavior is very much outside the norm.

On 12/25/2018 at 8:37 PM, hkmaly said:

Yes ; even if Voltaire marked someone, Justin has no way to know and no reason to suspect. (And same is true for rest of cast ... Including Adrian, actually. BTW Adrian doesn't even know yet that the attack on Noah was orchestrated by Voltaire and not Pandora.)

Yeah, I'm still waiting for Voltaire to say or do something that lets slip to Adrian that he was behind that one.  I think the Main Characters know about that; didn't Voltaire take credit for it when he revealed himself and promised not to try to kill Elliot?

Quote

I don't think Justin would be so easy to convince to tell more, though. Even if he would reveal the "increase awareness of magic", given the obviousness of question "who's her son?", I would expect he would withhold that to protect Adrian.

He could tell the first part without revealing the second.

Quote

Also, staying with "to increase awareness of magic" opens the possibility of suggesting that they should lay low to sabotage that plan. Not that it would help much ...

Of course, we don't yet know what changes to their rules the Immortals may have made after their little conclave....

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2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Did she tell her motives to Sarah or to Tedd?  I'd have to go back and re-read bits that would doubtless suck me into far more re-reading than I should get sucked into right now....

I don't think so. She was deliberately not telling any details to Sarah and while she confirmed she wanted to be with her son to Tedd I don't remember her talking with him about the clog at all ... I think she only told that to the Disco Wizard.

2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
On 12/24/2018 at 7:26 PM, Tom Sewell said:

You're assuming Camdin was marked by Pandora. There's certainly no clue for or against that in canon. But it's pretty clear that Voltaire knows of at least one person that Pandora did mark, which suggests he knows about others and may have marked some people himself.

If Voltaire could mark people himself, wouldn't we have seen more evidence of him doing so?  He could have framed Pandora for a lot more than just manipulating Dex.

He definitely can mark people, but as I said, he may need to tell them, which would complicate the framing ... also, he may have less luck finding targets matching his needs.

2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

It does seem like Elliot is the only one who's even considered that other Immortals could mark people, and that was only to think of asking them to help transgender people, not to wonder if they've been marking others the way Pandora had.  However, Noah's reaction to the idea of an Immortal marking someone without asking or telling them makes it seem like such behavior is very much outside the norm.

Susan was marked ... however, SHE WAS TOLD.

2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
On 12/26/2018 at 3:37 AM, hkmaly said:

BTW Adrian doesn't even know yet that the attack on Noah was orchestrated by Voltaire and not Pandora.)

Yeah, I'm still waiting for Voltaire to say or do something that lets slip to Adrian that he was behind that one.  I think the Main Characters know about that; didn't Voltaire take credit for it when he revealed himself and promised not to try to kill Elliot?

Yes he did take credit, although he didn't described exactly what he did.

2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
Quote

Also, staying with "to increase awareness of magic" opens the possibility of suggesting that they should lay low to sabotage that plan. Not that it would help much ...

Of course, we don't yet know what changes to their rules the Immortals may have made after their little conclave....

... I don't think the conclave already happened (or maybe it started but didn't finished). Immortals don't look like the types who would make changes like that impulsively ... I think there would be actual discussion involved.

... of course, that's not relevant to what Pandora was doing BEFORE the change in magic.

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Just now, hkmaly said:
2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Did she tell her motives to Sarah or to Tedd?  I'd have to go back and re-read bits that would doubtless suck me into far more re-reading than I should get sucked into right now....

I don't think so. She was deliberately not telling any details to Sarah and while she confirmed she wanted to be with her son to Tedd I don't remember her talking with him about the clog at all ... I think she only told that to the Disco Wizard.

Yeah, I think the closest she got to outright telling someone, was Tedd, though it could be enough that Tedd would connected most of what have been happening to that. I still think there was a missed opportunity for Tedd to mention Voltaire's appearance earlier in the week, but he was probably caught up in the moment and it slipped his mind.

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14 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
On 12/24/2018 at 9:11 PM, Scotty said:

It was assumed by Grace that it was the same Immortal marking everyone, I would imagine that was the general belief among the rest of them, and they haven't seen evidence that the marks were given by more than one Immortal. So if Luke or Camdin did press Justin into telling more after Justin eventually got told by Tedd and/or Susan, it'd likely be the "an Immortal who wanted her son to have more freedom to help people, marked people to increase awareness of magic" story.

It does seem like Elliot is the only one who's even considered that other Immortals could mark people, and that was only to think of asking them to help transgender people, not to wonder if they've been marking others the way Pandora had.  However, Noah's reaction to the idea of an Immortal marking someone without asking or telling them makes it seem like such behavior is very much outside the norm.

Noah's information is - at best - second-hand through Adrian, who had no communication with his mother for most of Noah's life. And I got the impression that such extended separations are not unusual. Noah may not know what is really normal among immortals.

Marking someone definitely qualifies as empowering them. Is there any obligation to guide those whom one empowers? Pandora never got in trouble (that we saw) for neglecting to ask people's permission before marking them or even tell them they're marked. And she had done it often enough to know, or at least to think, that people usually discover their mark-powers pretty quickly.

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6 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Noah's information is - at best - second-hand through Adrian, who had no communication with his mother for most of Noah's life. And I got the impression that such extended separations are not unusual. Noah may not know what is really normal among immortals.

Adrian definitely has some knowledge about other immortals, although possibly indirect. But yes, Noah likely just repeated what Adrian would say.

6 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Marking someone definitely qualifies as empowering them. Is there any obligation to guide those whom one empowers? Pandora never got in trouble (that we saw) for neglecting to ask people's permission before marking them or even tell them they're marked. And she had done it often enough to know, or at least to think, that people usually discover their mark-powers pretty quickly.

"Guide and Empower" is NOT all the rules. Remember that Pandora DID explained his spell to Luke, and presumably all of them - she just did it while hidden so they didn't actually hear her. Obviously, SHE though she's not breaking the rules so she was not.

And, I suspect that in normal case immortals are ASKING before marking someone. Remember how Jerry asked?

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Just now, Don Edwards said:

Noah's information is - at best - second-hand through Adrian, who had no communication with his mother for most of Noah's life. And I got the impression that such extended separations are not unusual. Noah may not know what is really normal among immortals.

Marking someone definitely qualifies as empowering them. Is there any obligation to guide those whom one empowers? Pandora never got in trouble (that we saw) for neglecting to ask people's permission before marking them or even tell them they're marked. And she had done it often enough to know, or at least to think, that people usually discover their mark-powers pretty quickly.

It's assumed that Pandora, being as powerful as she was, had herself convinced that what she was doing was fine and dandy. Any other Immortal might have more difficulty doing so, Pandora said that most Immortals need a special set of circumstances and permission. So while Pandora might not have been the only one able to get away with doing what she did, it'd be a very short list of who else could, maybe Voltaire is one, I dunno, if so, maybe he's past his reset date as well BUT, I would expect the other Immortals would know that when he contacted them to discuss making changes to Immortal Law.

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On 12/24/2018 at 0:02 PM, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

For more information regarding the inability of Immortals to cope with immortality, please refer to the legend of Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged.

Or just ask him about it when he shows up to insult you.

Given how many millennia it took for him to get from "Arthur Phillip Dent" to "Arthur Phillip Deodat", I believe that it is quite unlikely that he had/will get to anybody whose name begins with anything other than "Arthur Phillip D--" before the Vogons demolish Earth.

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3 hours ago, ijuin said:

Given how many millennia it took for him to get from "Arthur Phillip Dent" to "Arthur Phillip Deodat", I believe that it is quite unlikely that he had/will get to anybody whose name begins with anything other than "Arthur Phillip D--" before the Vogons demolish Earth.

He can travel in time. He has all the time he needs and far more time than he wants.

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14 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

He can travel in time. He has all the time he needs and far more time than he wants.

"After a while, you just don't see it anymore.  Everything.  I look at a star and it's just a big ball of burning gas, and I know how it began and I know how it ends, and I was probably there both times.  After a while, everything is just stuff.  That's the problem, you make all of space and time your backyard, and what do you have?  A backyard.

But you...you can see it.  And when you see it, I see it."     -The Doctor to Amy Pond, on why he brought her with him in his travels

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