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ChronosCat

Story, Friday Jan 4, 2019

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Wouldn't getting a customer's number from the store's records for personal reasons be against the store's rules? At the very least, it feels like an invasion of privacy.

If she was to use that information for personal reasons, it would be unethical.

But if she were to take contact information to inform a customer about a sale, promotion, or event at Salty Crackers, then that is telemarketing.

And this is a surely a sign of the end of civilization, telemarketing is not unethical.

After the official sales pitch, it would be in the realm of acceptable behavior if Grace were to briefly add a non-offensive personal message.

Edited by Pharaoh RutinTutin
Posted before I was finished writing

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4 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

If she was to use that information for personal reasons, it would be unethical.

But if she were to take contact information to inform a customer about a sale, promotion, or event at Salty Crackers, then that is telemarketing.

And this is a surely a sign of the end of civilization, telemarketing is not unethical.

After the official sales pitch, it would be in the realm of acceptable behavior if Grace were to briefly add a non-offensive personal message.

"Hey, buy our stuff. Oh, and incidentally I need to tell you something."

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18 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Wouldn't getting a customer's number from the store's records for personal reasons be against the store's rules? At the very least, it feels like an invasion of privacy.

15 hours ago, ijuin said:

The irony being that Grace wants/needs to talk to Sam specifically in order to AVOID invading his privacy . . .

I don't think Sam would appreciate the irony. Or should I say "will"?

Trying to call him when he's obviously trying to avoid you sounds like "give up, I WILL find you".

10 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

And this is a surely a sign of the end of civilization, telemarketing is not unethical.

Seriously? It may not be against law, but it surely isn't ethical.

 

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I understand that there's his privacy and that his secret was none of Grace's business...but I feel that the moment Sarah start voicing hope that a relationship could develop between her and Sam, it became Grace's business. If Sam doesn't tell Sarah he's trans, and continues to keep Sarah at arms length, how would that affect Sarah mentally, would she start second guessing herself, and we know she's done that before. Sam could also just tell Sarah that he's not interested in a relationship, but he may not know that Sarah is interested in one yet, and it may be too late when he does find out.

It kinda becomes a case of "do I sacrifice the mental well being of a friend for the sake of keeping the secret of someone I barely know?" and Sam running off the way he did raises plenty of concern, like is he going to be like that around Sarah whenever Grace is nearby? If he didn't go to the tournament on Friday because he was avoiding Grace, that what's going to happen whenever Sarah invites Sam to functions where Grace would be present? Would he turn down each invite? Or duck away whenever Sarah and Grace got talking about stuff. That also could get Sarah suspicious or second guess herself.

I think it'd do Sam a lot of good in the long run if he did tell Sarah, Grace (as well as us) is pretty certain that Sarah would be understanding and supportive, and maybe even bringing Sam into their group of friends would give him the strength to come forward with others. They don't have to tell him about magic or offer to transform him, just show him he doesn't have to be alone.

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17 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I understand that there's his privacy and that his secret was none of Grace's business...but I feel that the moment Sarah start voicing hope that a relationship could develop between her and Sam, it became Grace's business. If Sam doesn't tell Sarah he's trans, and continues to keep Sarah at arms length, how would that affect Sarah mentally, would she start second guessing herself, and we know she's done that before. Sam could also just tell Sarah that he's not interested in a relationship, but he may not know that Sarah is interested in one yet, and it may be too late when he does find out.

It kinda becomes a case of "do I sacrifice the mental well being of a friend for the sake of keeping the secret of someone I barely know?" and Sam running off the way he did raises plenty of concern, like is he going to be like that around Sarah whenever Grace is nearby? If he didn't go to the tournament on Friday because he was avoiding Grace, that what's going to happen whenever Sarah invites Sam to functions where Grace would be present? Would he turn down each invite? Or duck away whenever Sarah and Grace got talking about stuff. That also could get Sarah suspicious or second guess herself.

I see your angle, however ...

While Grace have additional senses and better understanding of social dynamics that would match her upbringing, and while seeing it from her perspective make her looking like hero, she's still mortal and might be mistaken, and therefore shouldn't make decision like this without Sarah.

She should check if Sarah NEEDS protecting. Aaand, maybe mention she feels like Sam is avoiding her. If, during communication like this, Sarah would press the matter and make Grace tell the secret, ok ... is much better than telling her directly.

22 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I think it'd do Sam a lot of good in the long run if he did tell Sarah, Grace (as well as us) is pretty certain that Sarah would be understanding and supportive, and maybe even bringing Sam into their group of friends would give him the strength to come forward with others. They don't have to tell him about magic or offer to transform him, just show him he doesn't have to be alone.

Well, sure, but he has no way of knowing that, and probably very bad experience from his previous tries.

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1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

While Grace have additional senses and better understanding of social dynamics that would match her upbringing, and while seeing it from her perspective make her looking like hero, she's still mortal and might be mistaken, and therefore shouldn't make decision like this without Sarah.

Grace could be mistaken, and things might work out if she just leaves things happen naturally, but what if it doesn't work out and Sarah is hurt? Grace would feel really bad too because she knew why it happen and she could have done something to at the very least make things less painful.

6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

She should check if Sarah NEEDS protecting. Aaand, maybe mention she feels like Sam is avoiding her. If, during communication like this, Sarah would press the matter and make Grace tell the secret, ok ... is much better than telling her directly.

I think Grace talking to same about it is the best way to go, it doesn't risk Sarah getting suspicious of anything and if Sam doesn't act on anything Grace says, then Grace at least tried. The question of checking if Sarah needs protecting, I'm not even sure how Grace could interpret at what point it would get to that, what kind of signals would Sarah need to give and would it be too late once Grace decided that it was time to do something?

39 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Well, sure, but he has no way of knowing that, and probably very bad experience from his previous tries.

Assuming he has tried before, yes, he may just be assuming the worst from seeing what's happened to others.  Either way, I don't think it's likely that he'll reach out to anyone and Grace can't just tell her friends even though they would be supportive of Sam because it would still be betraying the fact that Sam pleaded for Grace to not tell anyone, so Grace has to somehow tell Sam that and then he decide to take the next step.

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Hm... Grace could write two notes.

1) Sam: I'm pretty confident that your secret won't bother Sarah. She has secrets of her own that are different but relevant.

2) Sarah: Sam has a secret which he thinks will be a problem when you find out. It won't. But give him time.

Now I'm trying to decide if it would be better (and, separately, more amusing) if she delivers them correctly, or if she mixes them up.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I think Grace talking to same about it is the best way to go, it doesn't risk Sarah getting suspicious of anything and if Sam doesn't act on anything Grace says, then Grace at least tried.

Will you still think that if, next time Grace tries contacting him, he slips when running and falls some stairs?

I simply don't believe Grace has any way to contact him which wouldn't make him even more scared than he is.

Which can have two very negative consequences:

1) He injures himself, as I mentioned.

2) He stops seeing Sarah out of fear Grace would be stalking them.

And, obviously there is third option, which, while not as bad, still isn't exactly good:

3) He will tell Sarah Grace is stalking him. Depending on wording and how much Grace tries till then, he may tell it in way Sarah's relationship with Grace will be negatively affected ... and if not, Sarah will get suspicious.

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1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

Will you still think that if, next time Grace tries contacting him, he slips when running and falls some stairs?

No, that's entirely on him because Grace doesn't even know why he's avoiding her, she's making assumptions about why but we don't know if they're correct. If he hasn't explicitly told Grace to leave him alone, then you can't fault Grace for trying to talk to him. Running only raises flags that something is wrong AND could carry over to his interaction with Sarah which, as you asked earlier about Grace needing to see if Sarah needs protecting, this behaviour from Sam could qualify, heck, even if Sam explicitly told Grace to leave him alone, that could be indicative of behaviour that can negatively affect Sarah.

11 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

2) He stops seeing Sarah out of fear Grace would be stalking them.

He wouldn't be able to avoid her even if she did stop trying to contact him, there will be times where Sarah would like to go somewhere where Grace happens to be, either by coincidence, or maybe she suggests a double date or something, like I said before, if he's going to stop going to card tournaments with Sarah because Grace is going to be there, how long will it be before Sarah get's suspicious?

9 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

3) He will tell Sarah Grace is stalking him. Depending on wording, he may tell it in way Sarah's relationship with Grace will be negatively affected ... and if not, Sarah will get suspicious.

I think Sarah has gotten to the point where she knows Grace doesn't do something without a reason, if Sam tells Sarah that Grace is "stalking him" Sarah will probably either be suspicious of Sam because why would Grace be doing that to him, or tell Sam to just see what Grace wants.

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39 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

Hm... Grace could write two notes.

1) Sam: I'm pretty confident that your secret won't bother Sarah. She has secrets of her own that are different but relevant.

2) Sarah: Sam has a secret which he thinks will be a problem when you find out. It won't. But give him time.

Now I'm trying to decide if it would be better (and, separately, more amusing) if she delivers them correctly, or if she mixes them up.

I missed this when replying to hkmaly,

I don't think either note would be appropriate, the first would imply that if Sam told Sarah his secret, that Sarah would tell him hers. and that would put Sarah on the spot to reveal things about magic and Tedd and the fact that Grace would be writing the note, would make Sam suspect Grace being involved too.

The second note is almost as bad as just telling Sarah about Sam's secret against Sam's wishes, because it makes Sarah suspicious of what Sam's secret might be, she might not be able to leave it alone.

 

It'd be more amusing if each of them found one of Edward's famous notes.

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6 minutes ago, Scotty said:
27 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

2) He stops seeing Sarah out of fear Grace would be stalking them.

He wouldn't be able to avoid her even if she did stop trying to contact him, there will be times where Sarah would like to go somewhere where Grace happens to be, either by coincidence, or maybe she suggests a double date or something, like I said before, if he's going to stop going to card tournaments with Sarah because Grace is going to be there, how long will it be before Sarah get's suspicious?

27 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

3) He will tell Sarah Grace is stalking him. Depending on wording, he may tell it in way Sarah's relationship with Grace will be negatively affected ... and if not, Sarah will get suspicious.

I think Sarah has gotten to the point where she knows Grace doesn't do something without a reason, if Sam tells Sarah that Grace is "stalking him" Sarah will probably either be suspicious of Sam because why would Grace be doing that to him, or tell Sam to just see what Grace wants.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

I think Grace talking to same about it is the best way to go, it doesn't risk Sarah getting suspicious of anything

Well, we just agreed that (attempt to) talking to Sam has high likehood of getting Sarah suspicious, which was pretty close to my point.

Note that if she calls him, he can just hang up before she gets to the point.

2 minutes ago, Scotty said:

It'd be more amusing if each of them found one of Edward's famous notes.

Amusing definitely, but note that the Edward notes would actually be pretty dangerous if people wouldn't realize it says something different to each of them.

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Amusing definitely, but note that the Edward notes would actually be pretty dangerous if people wouldn't realize it says something different to each of them.

Well, Sarah might recognize it immediately.....what if she thinks it'd be fun to see how Sam reads it? He'd probably refuse to read it out loud though, or might react badly thinking his secret was out.

Ok that might not be a good idea either. Even if it was just Edward's grocery list.

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11 hours ago, Scotty said:

Well, Sarah might recognize it immediately.....what if she thinks it'd be fun to see how Sam reads it? He'd probably refuse to read it out loud though, or might react badly thinking his secret was out.

Ok that might not be a good idea either.

Exactly the danger I was speaking about.

11 hours ago, Scotty said:

Even if it was just Edward's grocery list.

It probably would be. Of course, only Edward can say for sure.

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