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Pharaoh RutinTutin

NP Wednesday February 13, 2019

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2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

If I am not mistaken, this is the first time we have seen Nanase in a Fox form.

Considering that her family name is Kitsune, I find this incredibly odd for this comic.

Gosh, it's almost like someone has a prejudice against name-based affinities.....  ;-)

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Just now, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

If I am not mistaken, this is the first time we have seen Nanase in a Fox form.

Is that a fox form? Looks more dog-like, and makes me wonder if that room required some digging to find the next button or door.

 

Anyway, all the forms in the first panel are likely the result of Nanase hitting other buttons like the first one that made her extra curvy. The second form is of Sarah though which suggests that Nanase might have been given a much bigger belly and Sarah's showing the rebalanced figure. Panel 2 is showing another rebalancing and Nanase's tum tum looks flatter than's Sarah's so I'm assuming the dog/fox/whatever canine form had a slimming effect.

 

I wonder what Nanase's dropping into next.

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I find it interesting that Nanase's canine form in panel 1 has paws instead of hands, but appears to be otherwise humanoid.

12 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

If I am not mistaken, this is the first time we have seen Nanase in a Fox form.

Considering that her family name is Kitsune, I find this incredibly odd for this comic.

Actually, she was in a fox form in the second anniversary filler.

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8 hours ago, Scotty said:
14 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

If I am not mistaken, this is the first time we have seen Nanase in a Fox form.

Is that a fox form? Looks more dog-like, and makes me wonder if that room required some digging to find the next button or door.

2 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

I find it interesting that Nanase's canine form in panel 1 has paws instead of hands, but appears to be otherwise humanoid.

I would assume that she really needed those paws as part of puzzle. So maybe really digging ...

Alternatively, paws were something she needed to overcame with some rebalancing ... although no idea what rebalancing could help with that ...

58 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I'm surprised we didn't saw fox in fox form yet ... but can't find it, so maybe not?

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1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

I'm surprised we didn't saw fox in fox form yet ... but can't find it, so maybe not?

There is that Pinup Dan did of Nanase looking seductive while Fox, who is wearing a foxy outfit with animal ears, tail and paw gloves/socks, is licking Nanase's cheek. Does that count?

the pinup in question I believe was originally posted in 2015 or early 2016 just before the Great Crash, it's buried pretty deep in Patreon by now, tumblr was probably my best chance of finding it but well....tumblr happened.

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm surprised we didn't saw fox in fox form yet ... but can't find it, so maybe not?

There is that Pinup Dan did of Nanase looking seductive while Fox, who is wearing a foxy outfit with animal ears, tail and paw gloves/socks, is licking Nanase's cheek. Does that count?

the pinup in question I believe was originally posted in 2015 or early 2016 just before the Great Crash, it's buried pretty deep in Patreon by now, tumblr was probably my best chance of finding it but well....tumblr happened.

Right. Some stuff was not on Sketchbook ... hmmmm .... the posts itself are gone, but ...

https://www.tineye.com/search/2ce0dc9f7abae92e729560b20530dd0b2bb40075/

tumblr_o3c2ynVqvS1v0psxyo2_1280.png

There is one even BETTER fox Nanase, though. Sequence of her changing from fox to almost human. Can't find that one anywhere ... oh, right. Because that one is locked now: https://www.patreon.com/posts/april-sequence-5374088 (note that it's described as werewolf, but ...)

Also see

 

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

There is one even BETTER fox Nanase, though. Sequence of her changing from fox to almost human. Can't find that one anywhere ... oh, right. Because that one is locked now: https://www.patreon.com/posts/april-sequence-5374088 (note that it's described as werewolf, but ...)

The werewolf one was likely based on Sarah's imagination inserting Nanase as one of her werewolves during the card tournament. I'd also suspect that if Dan says she's a werewolf, then she's a werewolf. ;)

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19 hours ago, Scotty said:
21 hours ago, hkmaly said:

There is one even BETTER fox Nanase, though. Sequence of her changing from fox to almost human. Can't find that one anywhere ... oh, right. Because that one is locked now: https://www.patreon.com/posts/april-sequence-5374088 (note that it's described as werewolf, but ...)

The werewolf one was likely based on Sarah's imagination inserting Nanase as one of her werewolves during the card tournament.

Yes it was. It's definitely the same one.

19 hours ago, Scotty said:

I'd also suspect that if Dan says she's a werewolf, then she's a werewolf. ;)

Maybe in EGS terms. Like, the werewolves Pandora got rid of might've included some which were closer to foxes than wolves. Would match the fact that some of EGS's vampires don't really look as vampires.

(Although considering she was based on Magical Gatherings card, maybe it's less EGS reality and more something specific to Magical Gatherings.)

Internet says that difference between fox and wolf is that fox is smaller and has fluffier tail. Obviously, the size difference is hidden by the "were" part. The tail looks fluffy enough. Also, she looks similar to all other foxes in EGS.

(I don't think Dan has any better knowledge about difference between fox and wolf than what I found. It's not like he's focusing on realistic depiction of animals ...)

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5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Maybe in EGS terms. Like, the werewolves Pandora got rid of might've included some which were closer to foxes than wolves. Would match the fact that some of EGS's vampires don't really look as vampires.

I imagine there were Werebeasts, with wolves being a subset if the curse had regional differences, like wolves being european and foxes being asian, maybe there were Werebears in north america?

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20 hours ago, Scotty said:
On 2/15/2019 at 0:24 AM, hkmaly said:

Maybe in EGS terms. Like, the werewolves Pandora got rid of might've included some which were closer to foxes than wolves. Would match the fact that some of EGS's vampires don't really look as vampires.

I imagine there were Werebeasts, with wolves being a subset if the curse had regional differences, like wolves being european and foxes being asian, maybe there were Werebears in north america?

Or the differences were not regional but just random.

On a related note, In Dungeons & Dragons, Lycanthrope is term for ANY shapeshifting creatures similar to werewolves, including wereboar, werefox and wereshark ... despite λυκάνθρωπος literally meaning wolf-human. The correct general term would be therianthrope.

 

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12 hours ago, ijuin said:

Like it or not, Greek is how we cracked the ancient Egyptian language via the Rosetta Stone.

Makes me picture all the multi-lingual labels and signs and instruction manuals we have now.  In a few thousand years, will someone use the How To Install Your Smart Speaker booklet as a key to deciphering the mysterious "English" language?  Or perhaps an engraved tourist sign about a Niagara Falls long since dried up?  ;-)

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1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

Makes me picture all the multi-lingual labels and signs and instruction manuals we have now.  In a few thousand years, will someone use the How To Install Your Smart Speaker booklet as a key to deciphering the mysterious "English" language?  Or perhaps an engraved tourist sign about a Niagara Falls long since dried up?  ;-)

There's a natural Rosetta Stone for technological civilizations, even not-very-technological civilizations: humanity's first recorded stab at creating an instance of it was in 1817, and the modern and probably final form was settled in 1914 (additions since then have merely extended that form, not altered or rearranged it).

There's at least one copy of it in most high schools, every encyclopedia set, and numerous other places. In every country on earth.

Of course, they are pretty much all on paper, and the long-term survivability of paper is questionable.

It's also in a few gazillion places on electronic storage, which has a similar issue. (Heck, I have a piece of electronic storage sitting on the edge of my keyboard waiting for my new tablet to arrive; if the print on one side faded, it would look like a broken piece of something, not an object in itself. And even if it remains readable in 10,000 years - questionable - would anyone be able to figure out how to read it? It's about the size of my thumbnail and has a capacity of 64 gigabytes.)

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7 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Makes me picture all the multi-lingual labels and signs and instruction manuals we have now.  In a few thousand years, will someone use the How To Install Your Smart Speaker booklet as a key to deciphering the mysterious "English" language?

Considering quality of most of manuals, I hope not. Especially considering that if "English" would become mysterious, the language people would be using will likely be Chinese or Hindi. Assuming those will be people, of course.

6 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

There's a natural Rosetta Stone for technological civilizations, even not-very-technological civilizations: humanity's first recorded stab at creating an instance of it was in 1817, and the modern and probably final form was settled in 1914 (additions since then have merely extended that form, not altered or rearranged it).

There's at least one copy of it in most high schools, every encyclopedia set, and numerous other places. In every country on earth.

I think I missed the reference. I don't see anything like that happens in 1817.

However, there is definitely plenty of dictionaries everywhere. Also gigantic amount of other texts. I don't think anyone studying today would be having problem with too LITTLE information. More with finding the important parts between all that.

6 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Of course, they are pretty much all on paper, and the long-term survivability of paper is questionable.

It's also in a few gazillion places on electronic storage, which has a similar issue.

While long-term survivability of any single piece of electronic is questionable and often worse than paper, the general survivability of electronic information is very good. It took days of hard work to a monk in middle ages to copy single book. It takes seconds to copy whole library stored on HDD now. It's generally simpler to copy gigabyte of text than finding a specific page in that. This leads to important information rarely being on mere hundreds of places.

6 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

would anyone be able to figure out how to read it

There is actual danger of some document or image format, especially proprietary one, being forgotten. Compressed formats are hard to decode without knowing the compression, not speaking about stuff actually encrypted ... and software originally used to read it may stop working.

Luckily, there is lot of information recorded in quite simple formats like HTML or wiki markup.

 

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5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I think I missed the reference. I don't see anything like that happens in 1817.

However, there is definitely plenty of dictionaries everywhere. Also gigantic amount of other texts. I don't think anyone studying today would be having problem with too LITTLE information. More with finding the important parts between all that.

While long-term survivability of any single piece of electronic is questionable and often worse than paper, the general survivability of electronic information is very good. It took days of hard work to a monk in middle ages to copy single book. It takes seconds to copy whole library stored on HDD now. It's generally simpler to copy gigabyte of text than finding a specific page in that. This leads to important information rarely being on mere hundreds of places.

The document in question is called "The Periodic Table of Elements". Any society that has any grasp of molecular chemistry is going to have names for elements and how they combine, and this in turn will allow a linguistic foot-in-the-door to decipher chemistry texts, and from there to other texts.

Electronic information may survive but would people recognize it? I don't even mean the readability of the file formats--I mean, would people even know that the files are there? Imagine current or near-future computer media being found by a society that has no concept of molecule-scale computer circuits. A CD is just a shiny disk, and a flash memory chip is just a bit of plastic. There will always be a place for information that can be read visually without any equipment.

 

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11 hours ago, ijuin said:

I don't even mean the readability of the file formats

Yeah, that's WELL down the list. First they need to recognize that this little bitty plastic chip is a data-storage device. Second it needs to be in good enough condition that WE could read it. Then they have to figure out how to read the storage blocks, which implies an electronics technology at least comparable to ours. Then they have to figure out how many bits are in a single symbol, and getting this right will imply that they use an alphabetic script*. THEN, finally they can start working on understanding the data in any individual block (record format?) at the same time that they start decoding the filesystem structure (file format).

Once they get to that point, XML will help, of course - while Unicode will make things more difficult.

Oh, and yes, the natural Rosetta Stone I was referring to is the Periodic Table.

 

 

* Evidence suggests that the alphabetic script was invented from whole cloth exactly once in human history: every alphabetic script, whether in current usage or dead, is a descendant - in terms of the concept being handed down if not the actual forms - of Phoenician. If civilization falls so hard that that concept is lost for a couple thousand years, it won't necessarily be reinvented quickly.

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17 hours ago, ijuin said:
22 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I think I missed the reference. I don't see anything like that happens in 1817.

However, there is definitely plenty of dictionaries everywhere. Also gigantic amount of other texts. I don't think anyone studying today would be having problem with too LITTLE information. More with finding the important parts between all that.

While long-term survivability of any single piece of electronic is questionable and often worse than paper, the general survivability of electronic information is very good. It took days of hard work to a monk in middle ages to copy single book. It takes seconds to copy whole library stored on HDD now. It's generally simpler to copy gigabyte of text than finding a specific page in that. This leads to important information rarely being on mere hundreds of places.

The document in question is called "The Periodic Table of Elements". Any society that has any grasp of molecular chemistry is going to have names for elements and how they combine, and this in turn will allow a linguistic foot-in-the-door to decipher chemistry texts, and from there to other texts.

Ok, but Dmitri Mendeleev published the first recognizable periodic table in 1869. Still no idea what was supposed to happen in 1817. Or 1914. Wouldn't 1928 be the correct year?

17 hours ago, ijuin said:

Electronic information may survive but would people recognize it? I don't even mean the readability of the file formats--I mean, would people even know that the files are there? Imagine current or near-future computer media being found by a society that has no concept of molecule-scale computer circuits. A CD is just a shiny disk, and a flash memory chip is just a bit of plastic. There will always be a place for information that can be read visually without any equipment.

Flash memory chip is not going to survive anyway. However, CD (or DVD) is NOT just shiny disk. You don't need special hardware to realize there is information encoded there - you only need microscope. Reading CD with microscope is not effective but it IS possible, and looking at CD with microscope will give you pretty good idea how to make something capable of reading it faster.

(That said, it's not bad idea to have something readable without equipment as well.)

5 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Then they have to figure out how many bits are in a single symbol, and getting this right will imply that they use an alphabetic script*.

There are usually 8 bits in symbol, which is quite different from alphabet. On the other hand, it's quite likely they will decode the file format (mostly based on numbers) faster than text based on alphabet they don't know.

Of course, personally I hope that not everything will be forgotten.

(Note that there are 14 bits per symbol on CD, as part of error protection/recovery. Also NRZI.)

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On 2/17/2019 at 6:47 PM, hkmaly said:

Considering quality of most of manuals, I hope not. Especially considering that if "English" would become mysterious, the language people would be using will likely be Chinese or Hindi. Assuming those will be people, of course.

I've encountered some manuals that included both English and Chinese (among other languages). So a manual like that could still work as a Rosetta stone.

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13 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

* Evidence suggests that the alphabetic script was invented from whole cloth exactly once in human history: every alphabetic script, whether in current usage or dead, is a descendant - in terms of the concept being handed down if not the actual forms - of Phoenician. If civilization falls so hard that that concept is lost for a couple thousand years, it won't necessarily be reinvented quickly.

The alphabet with a one-to-one correspondence between phonemes and symbols seems to have arisen only once, but polyphonemic symbols have arisen in a lot of places, where a syllable is represented by one or two symbols. In a number of languages that have a relatively restricted phonology (e.g. Korean and Japanese), a usable number of symbols can cover all possible pronunciations--e.g. Japanese has only forty-six symbols which cover all possible phonemic combinations even though with the exception of syllable-final nasal sound -n, each symbol is either a standalone vowel or a consonant phoneme with a vowel. (standalone consonants are phonetically impossible in Japanese)

Anyway, my point is that it is perfectly possible and even somewhat common for societies to develop pronunciation-based writing without having the "each symbol is a standalone phoneme" rule that governs the Phonecian-inspired alphabet system.

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And it looks likely that the Japanese and Koreans had at least heard the concept of an alphabetic script, from Marco Polo by way of China or from Buddhist India by way of China, before inventing the scripts you refer to.

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Not Marco Polo, certainly, since it predates him by more than half a millennium. The Katakana/Hiragana scripts have their origins in the sixth century A.D. adoption of Chinese script used to write Japanese words. The Japanese ran into the problem that Chinese script had no means of representing the various word conjugations of the Japanese language, so they selected a set of about fifty Chinese characters to represent Japanese sounds to append to the words. The modern Katakana and Hiragana are merely extreme simplifications of that subset of Chinese characters.

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