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CritterKeeper

Story: Thursday, March 3, 2016

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On 3/6/2016 at 4:39 PM, mlooney said:

No one seems to be reading their spellbook.  Nanase didn't notice an upgrade, Susan didn't know she had either an upgrade or new spells, Justin doesn't know he HAS a spellbook, and of course Elliot hasn't been reading his.   The only mage of the main 8, in canon, who we haven't seen not know something about their spells, is Ellen.

The spellbooks don't just magically materialize in the possession of people who've just awakened. Jerry gave Susan hers, Mr. V gave Elliot and Ellen theirs. How they get the spellbooks is unknown; maybe wizards and immortals can create them. (Nanase has had hers for a while, if how she got it was shown then the Immortals gave it to her in France but I don't think it was shown.)

Nobody has given Justin one yet because nobody except Pandora knows he's awakened and she mostly isn't being that obvious. (HE doesn't know he's awakened - if Pandora gave him a spellbook, he would know.) So he's currently in the clear regarding keeping up with changes to his spellbook.

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Here the problem as I see it. First  the spellbooks are not always as efficient as the could be. The language is archaic. The descriptions are complex, a spell or spell update can add any number of pages and they're probably not always tacked onto the end of the tome. We also don't know how good the Table of Contents and Index are. I suspect they list every spell and spell option in some way but we have no idea if it tell you what is new or updated. Nanase has a fairly hard time and she probably make the most concerted effort (though Susan would do so if not for her issues). Elliot isn't stupid and he's fairly diligent but he's not exactly cerebral and he typical learns better by doing something than reading about something. We saw how Ellen reacted to the idea of reading and considering her relation to Elliot (daughter/sister/magic female clone) I would imagine he'd share the same reaction.

1 hour ago, Warrl said:

The spellbooks don't just magically materialize in the possession of people who've just awakened. Jerry gave Susan hers, Mr. V gave Elliot and Ellen theirs. How they get the spellbooks is unknown; maybe wizards and immortals can create them. (Nanase has had hers for a while, if how she got it was shown then the Immortals gave it to her in France but I don't think it was shown.)

Nobody has given Justin one yet because nobody except Pandora knows he's awakened and she mostly isn't being that obvious. (HE doesn't know he's awakened - if Pandora gave him a spellbook, he would know.) So he's current in the clear regarding keeping up with changes to his spellbook.

She also might have given him a book (hiding it amongst his other belongings) and didn't let him know (which would so be like her if she did).

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1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

The spellbooks don't just magically materialize in the possession of people who've just awakened. Jerry gave Susan hers, Mr. V gave Elliot and Ellen theirs. How they get the spellbooks is unknown; maybe wizards and immortals can create them. (Nanase has had hers for a while, if how she got it was shown then the Immortals gave it to her in France but I don't think it was shown.)

Nobody has given Justin one yet because nobody except Pandora knows he's awakened and she mostly isn't being that obvious. (HE doesn't know he's awakened - if Pandora gave him a spellbook, he would know.) So he's current in the clear regarding keeping up with changes to his spellbook.

Susan told Sarah and Grace that "it took less than a minute to give Nanase a spell book and power."

 

30 minutes ago, ScifiterX said:

Here the problem as I see it. First  the spellbooks are not always as efficient as the could be. The language is archaic. The descriptions are complex, a spell or spell update can add any number of pages and they're probably not always tacked onto the end of the tome. We also don't know how good the Table of Contents and Index are. I suspect they list every spell and spell option in some way but we have no idea if it tell you what is new or updated. Nanase has a fairly hard time and she probably make the most concerted effort (though Susan would do so if not for her issues). Elliot isn't stupid and he's fairly diligent but he's not exactly cerebral and he typical learns better by doing something than reading about something. We saw how Ellen reacted to the idea of reading and considering her relation to Elliot (daughter/sister/magic female clone) I would imagine he'd share the same reaction.

She also might have given him a book (hiding it amongst his other belongings) and didn't let him know (which would so be like her if she did).

About Ellen's aversion to reading, there is the fact that the panel after Ellen's reaction "...but reading though", we have Elliot going "Oh hey, a bookstore! we should remember where that is for after we eat."  It's quite possible though Ellen's reaction is more in the context of "I'd rather be out searching rather than sitting here sifting through all the reports" and she'll still read books if they happen to be something that interests her.

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16 minutes ago, LivewareProblem said:

With spellbooks, skim-reading has real life consquences. Hopefully he'll learn now; after all, don't they say "third times the charm"?

Since the things are apparently created on demand by immortals (and maybe wizards, or else Mr. V keeps a stock on hand), they really SHOULD come up with a better way of notifying the owner of changes.

After all, simply adding or removing a three-letter word (particularly "not"), or exchanging one three-letter word for another (example: "one" to "two" or "six"), can be a HUGE upgrade to a previous spell. And it isn't something likely to be noticed in casual observation. For that matter, even if the owner does re-read the entire book every week it could easily go unnoticed.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

About Ellen's aversion to reading, there is the fact that the panel after Ellen's reaction "...but reading though", we have Elliot going "Oh hey, a bookstore! we should remember where that is for after we eat."  It's quite possible though Ellen's reaction is more in the context of "I'd rather be out searching rather than sitting here sifting through all the reports" and she'll still read books if they happen to be something that interests her.

Thanks, that's kinda what I meant but I wasn't expressing it well

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

This might be the 4th or 5th time though? ;)

Let us not hope that he has already went past that.

Talk about comic book superpeople getting beat on "telepathic" communication.

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You know, the "search constantly for hidden updates" thing would explain how spellcasters of legend could be constantly reading in an economy where they couldn't afford a lot of books...

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7 hours ago, exterminator said:

We don't really know how does the magic behind the spellbooks work, but the first thing I would do is see if there is a way to digitize (is that the word?) it, set an app that notify me every time the document has changed, and tell me what lines were added / modified, like Git does. There is a point in time where keeping track of that damn thing, in a physical book, is simply unfeasible, and it would be really annoying well before that point.

That would be great idea, but ... I'm convinced magic is making hard to find what changed DELIBERATELY. As a way to troll magic users. Therefore, it will find way to prevent the version control system from working.

(It's not hard. Replace words with synonyms, alter spacing ...).

5 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Nobody has given Justin one yet because nobody except Pandora knows he's awakened and she mostly isn't being that obvious. (HE doesn't know he's awakened - if Pandora gave him a spellbook, he would know.) So he's currently in the clear regarding keeping up with changes to his spellbook.

Justin wasn't around when Edward was waving around with the awakening detection wand. Apparently, sharing information or not, it didn't occurred to him that if he's not sure, he should simply let Edward test him.

1 hour ago, Haylo said:

You know, the "search constantly for hidden updates" thing would explain how spellcasters of legend could be constantly reading in an economy where they couldn't afford a lot of books...

I though explanation for that is simply that spellcasters of legend is well-enough paid job, but you may have point ...

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Justin wasn't around when Edward was waving around with the awakening detection wand. Apparently, sharing information or not, it didn't occurred to him that if he's not sure, he should simply let Edward test him.

Justin apparently wasn't even marked yet, let alone awakened, when that was going on. He's had no obvious reason to think that has changed, other than Luke's word - and Luke thought he was marked, which at that time he wasn't because by then he was already awakened.

 

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8 hours ago, PSadlon said:

Here the problem as I see it. First  the spellbooks are not always as efficient as the could be. The language is archaic. The descriptions are complex, a spell or spell update can add any number of pages and they're probably not always tacked onto the end of the tome. We also don't know how good the Table of Contents and Index are. I suspect they list every spell and spell option in some way but we have no idea if it tell you what is new or updated. Nanase has a fairly hard time and she probably make the most concerted effort (though Susan would do so if not for her issues). Elliot isn't stupid and he's fairly diligent but he's not exactly cerebral and he typical learns better by doing something than reading about something. We saw how Ellen reacted to the idea of reading and considering her relation to Elliot (daughter/sister/magic female clone) I would imagine he'd share the same reaction.

She also might have given him a book (hiding it amongst his other belongings) and didn't let him know (which would so be like her if she did).

Maybe there should be an app that provides notifications when an update is available in a person's spell list.

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10 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Nobody has given Justin one yet because nobody except Pandora knows he's awakened and she mostly isn't being that obvious. (HE doesn't know he's awakened - if Pandora gave him a spellbook, he would know.) So he's currently in the clear regarding keeping up with changes to his spellbook.

 

9 hours ago, PSadlon said:

She also might have given him a book (hiding it amongst his other belongings) and didn't let him know (which would so be like her if she did).

I can definitely see her doing that.  Somewhere on Justin's shelves, he will one day find a phone book, or Memoirs of the Great Accountants, or a Twilight book, and pick it up only because he doesn't remember ever seeing it before....

6 hours ago, Haylo said:

You know, the "search constantly for hidden updates" thing would explain how spellcasters of legend could be constantly reading in an economy where they couldn't afford a lot of books...

Now that's an interesting observation!  And changes in wording might be the real reason why D&D magic-users have to read their spellbooks every day -- maybe magic there is like Stile's magic in Phaze, where he can never use the exact same spell twice, but he can rephrase things to get the same effect, and the magic-user's spell book has a really good thesaurus.

5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Justin wasn't around when Edward was waving around with the awakening detection wand. Apparently, sharing information or not, it didn't occurred to him that if he's not sure, he should simply let Edward test him.

He may not even be aware that there is a simple, painless (except to the ears) way to test for magic ability.  I think it most likely, however, that his conversation with Luke is a true reflection of what he believes -- he's had no reason to think he has any magic beyond the ASMA training (I do assume the group talks to each other enough for him to have at least found out that's magic) until Luke brought up the possibility, and they proceeded to disprove his claim about Justin being Marked.  Now that the possibility has been brought up, Justin might have enough doubts to ask his friends about it, at which point I'll be disappointed if no one thinks of asking Mr. Verres.

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5 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I can definitely see her doing that.  Somewhere on Justin's shelves, he will one day find a phone book, or Memoirs of the Great Accountants, or a Twilight book, and pick it up only because he doesn't remember ever seeing it before....

The possibility is funny enough for her to do it at least once, but possibly not with Justin. Unless ... can existence of one spellbook for given person prevent creation of another?

5 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Now that's an interesting observation!  And changes in wording might be the real reason why D&D magic-users have to read their spellbooks every day -- maybe magic there is like Stile's magic in Phaze, where he can never use the exact same spell twice, but he can rephrase things to get the same effect, and the magic-user's spell book has a really good thesaurus.

It's not thesaurus. The spell keeps changing: if you say it the way it was yesterday, it wouldn't work, but the book always contains the working version.

(I think there was an explanation somewhere based on the spell wiping itself from memory on casting, proving that D&D magic is trolling even more than EGS magic. Alternatively, the preparation of spell is not just memorization, you actually do part of the spell casting in the preparation step.)

5 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

He may not even be aware that there is a simple, painless (except to the ears) way to test for magic ability.  I think it most likely, however, that his conversation with Luke is a true reflection of what he believes -- he's had no reason to think he has any magic beyond the ASMA training (I do assume the group talks to each other enough for him to have at least found out that's magic) until Luke brought up the possibility, and they proceeded to disprove his claim about Justin being Marked.  Now that the possibility has been brought up, Justin might have enough doubts to ask his friends about it, at which point I'll be disappointed if no one thinks of asking Mr. Verres.

The new ability should be suspicious itself. If he would take at least the same attention to what Mr. Verres is saying as we do, he would know that Greg was talked out from teaching the anime martial arts BECAUSE what it's actually doing is leading to persons awakening sooner or later.

So, the logical conclusion is that he was NOT paying the same attention. Or he has some misconception, similarly how Susan though that she will know she have new spell.

... and yes, I hope they will talk about it enough for someone to remember Justin might need to get tested.

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Yeah, I've always thought that EGS spellbooks are the worst. Their owners can't tell if their spells have updated without carefully reading through the entire book unless they've already used their updated or brand-new spells by accident, possibly in a public place as a result of stress, surprise or other emotions. Who designed those books, anyway? Immortals, wizards, or Magic itself? Until we get a definite answer to that question in the comic, I'm just going to assume that whoever made the spellbooks work the way they do certainly wasn't thinking of making them easy to use for their owners. I really can't blame Elliot or anyone else for not keeping up with their books. Also, I very much doubt that Elliot doesn't actually ever read his book. He might check it once a week or so, but unless there's a new spell at the end or the updates to the old spells are difficult to miss, I know I wouldn't want to read the same book from start to finish every week if I were him.

Then again, Elliot only did get his book last year and he doesn't have nearly as many spells as Nanase yet, so... Hmm. Perhaps he should put a bit more effort into checking his book.

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Nah, pressing on her ear lobes, one increases, the other decreases. 

What I want s how does she take a picture, does she activate the camera with a nose-beep?

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