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Tom Sewell

Story, Wednesday, May 1, 2018

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I realize Dan posted this a lot later than usual, but it was still strange to check the forums this morning and not see a Story thread yet. Kind of funny too that in the time it took me to catch up on the latest NP thread and compose what I wanted to say about this strip Tom started a thread for it...

 

...So, I'm starting to feel like Elliot here. The party sounded like a great idea at first, but now it really doesn't seem like the best time for one.

On the other hand, Dan spent a lot of time going into all the problems people were dealing with prior to Grace's Birthday Party (including ones that the sex-change theme would bring to the fore), and that turned out to be a great story, so maybe this will still be fun.

Assuming Ashley is up for them, transformation party games sound pretty fun too - however something tells me we won't see very much of those games. (If we did, this would start to feel like a Goonmanji spin-off, which I don't think is what Dan's going for with this story.)

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I still think the rock soup principle will apply. I see us going round Robin Hood's barn a few times before the holdouts wind up going to the party after all.

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I'm wondering now, since Elliot's feeling bad about Susan and bringing up the idea of a party, will Ashley pick up on it and just instinctively want to reach out to Susan, and then the two of them end up talking about their experience together. Ashley isn't really up to talking to Elliot about it, and she doesn't really know anyone else, but I'd think if she believed that Susan was dealing similar trauma, she might open up to Susan first.

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Ashley isn't really up to talking to Elliot about it, and she doesn't really know anyone else, but I'd think if she believed that Susan was dealing similar trauma, she might open up to Susan first.

It seems to me Ashley has connected with Sarah fairly well, and since Sarah has been Susan's friend longer than anyone else we know about, I suspect Sarah would play a role in making something like this come about.

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Just now, Tom Sewell said:

It seems to me Ashley has connected with Sarah fairly well, and since Sarah has been Susan's friend longer than anyone else we know about, I suspect Sarah would play a role in making something like this come about.

Sarah did try to talk to Susan about it though, and didn't get very far. Ashley seems like a left field choice, sure, but it might take something outta left field to get through to Susan, and if at the same time Ashley is able to sort out her feelings as well, all the better.

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27 minutes ago, Scotty said:

it might take something outta left field to get through to Susan

This is El Goonish Shive. Don't things always come out of left field here?

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Susan and Ashley are each dealing with a magic related personal crisis that is making them question everything they believed.

Thus Tedd wants to play Magical transformation games.

And I had been so worried that Tedd was maturing and developing.  I should never have doubted that Tedd will always be Tedd.

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34 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

And I had been so worried that Tedd was maturing and developing.  I should never have doubted that Tedd will always be Tedd.

People have different ways of coping, Tedd went through an emotional roller coaster that Friday as well but fortunately for her it ended on a high note and so she's more gung ho about magic than ever before, I don't really blame her for being eager to share it, besides, it couldn't hurt to be prepared in case Susan and Ashley change their minds.

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6 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

...So, I'm starting to feel like Elliot here. The party sounded like a great idea at first, but now it really doesn't seem like the best time for one.

Elliot might be second-guessing the idea of party at all. All our objections seems to be just about postponing the party for later.

6 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

On the other hand, Dan spent a lot of time going into all the problems people were dealing with prior to Grace's Birthday Party (including ones that the sex-change theme would bring to the fore), and that turned out to be a great story, so maybe this will still be fun.

To be fair, it can easily be fun for us and embarrassing for them. But I don't think it will be that case.

6 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Assuming Ashley is up for them, transformation party games sound pretty fun too - however something tells me we won't see very much of those games. (If we did, this would start to feel like a Goonmanji spin-off, which I don't think is what Dan's going for with this story.)

I think Ashley would definitely be up for them. Her only concern with Goonmanji was that SHE will get the power, and that's not what will happen here. And regarding the spin-off ... I think the main difference will be that the kind of games Tedd thinks about would have rules explainable in single panel. We DID saw karaoke on the first party, after all.

5 hours ago, Scotty said:

I'm wondering now, since Elliot's feeling bad about Susan and bringing up the idea of a party, will Ashley pick up on it and just instinctively want to reach out to Susan, and then the two of them end up talking about their experience together. Ashley isn't really up to talking to Elliot about it, and she doesn't really know anyone else, but I'd think if she believed that Susan was dealing similar trauma, she might open up to Susan first.

I'm still not sure how would she find out Susan is dealing with similar trauma. I mean, it's not likely anyone would tell her. Especially if it really was Susan who told everyone what happened in Paris and not Sarah.

51 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Susan and Ashley are each dealing with a magic related personal crisis that is making them question everything they believed.

Thus Tedd wants to play Magical transformation games.

It makes more sense that it looks on first look. They are dealing with seeing the bad side of magic. They really should see the fun side. Well, I'm not sure about Susan, who already saw it and it may be not her thing, but it would definitely be correct solution for Ashley.

8 minutes ago, Scotty said:
51 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

And I had been so worried that Tedd was maturing and developing.  I should never have doubted that Tedd will always be Tedd.

People have different ways of coping, Tedd went through an emotional roller coaster that Friday as well but fortunately for her it ended on a high note and so she's more gung ho about magic than ever before, I don't really blame her for being eager to share it,

Also this. I'm not sure why maturing should mean less transformations.

In fact, reminds me some other comics ... shows correctly what the difference between childhood and adult games is:

Blanked Fort

8 minutes ago, Scotty said:

besides, it couldn't hurt to be prepared in case Susan and Ashley change their minds.

Ashley probably wouldn't be able to resist opportunity to see some magic transformation no matter how she feels about magic. She might feel conflicted about it but not enough to resist.

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8 minutes ago, Scotty said:

she's more gung ho about magic

"Gung ho" has come to mean enthusiastic or fanatical, but it comes from a Chinese phrase meaning "work together".  It came to the USA through Evans Carlsen, a Marine who spent time with Communist guerrillas in China when they were fighting the Japanese, and went on to organize and lead the Marine Raiders in 1942.

I think the party is going to be more about working together than (just) letting Tedd have fun.

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3 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I'm still not sure how would she find out Susan is dealing with similar trauma. I mean, it's not likely anyone would tell her. Especially if it really was Susan who told everyone what happened in Paris and not Sarah.

She doesn't have to specifically find out, the next time she see's Elliot, she'd notice he's not as cheerful as the last time she saw him so she'd ask whatsup, Elliot can at the very least say he was hoping he could get everyone together an do something on Saturday (he doesn't have to say anything about it being a party) and he feels bad about Susan's response.

Dan himself said he's not exactly sure when and how Elliot would have found out about Susan's experience in France, he mentioned the fact that Susan had told Sarah and Grace, but it's also possible he heard it from Nanase and/or Ellen cus we know Nanase told Ellen about Susan's angst induced awakening, she could have told Ellen about France as well since she was involved too, Nanase has just as much right to choose who to tell as Susan does and Susan didn't ask for Nanase's permission to tell Sarah and Grace so I don't see why Nanase would need permission from Susan to tell someone.

5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Ashley probably wouldn't be able to resist opportunity to see some magic transformation no matter how she feels about magic. She might feel conflicted about it but not enough to resist.

Ashley's been pretty resistant so far, she opted for seeing a movie in a public place rather that in private where there could be a chance of Elliot transforming for fun or something. That'd be a big reason to avoid attending a get-together with people she recently learned has experienced magic in some form, she's trying to avoid temptation, probably not out of fear of giving into it, but out of the possibility of having a breakdown in front of everyone.

14 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

"Gung ho" has come to mean enthusiastic or fanatical, but it comes from a Chinese phrase meaning "work together".  It came to the USA through Evans Carlsen, a Marine who spent time with Communist guerrillas in China when they were fighting the Japanese, and went on to organize and lead the Marine Raiders in 1942.

I think the party is going to be more about working together than (just) letting Tedd have fun.

Considering Tedd's main reason for wanting to make magic public was so that it could be used to help people, "Gung ho" might still be apt.

 

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6 minutes ago, Scotty said:
32 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I'm still not sure how would she find out Susan is dealing with similar trauma. I mean, it's not likely anyone would tell her. Especially if it really was Susan who told everyone what happened in Paris and not Sarah.

She doesn't have to specifically find out, the next time she see's Elliot, she'd notice he's not as cheerful as the last time she saw him so she'd ask whatsup, Elliot can at the very least say he was hoping he could get everyone together an do something on Saturday (he doesn't have to say anything about it being a party) and he feels bad about Susan's response.

Hmmm ... on one hand, Elliot is bad liar so she may get it from him. On the other, so far Ashley was very careful about not getting any private informations. So careful it almost worked as reverse psychology.

7 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Dan himself said he's not exactly sure when and how Elliot would have found out about Susan's experience in France, he mentioned the fact that Susan had told Sarah and Grace, but it's also possible he heard it from Nanase and/or Ellen cus we know Nanase told Ellen about Susan's angst induced awakening, she could have told Ellen about France as well since she was involved too, Nanase has just as much right to choose who to tell as Susan does and Susan didn't ask for Nanase's permission to tell Sarah and Grace so I don't see why Nanase would need permission from Susan to tell someone.

Dan mentioning he's not sure is exactly why I was talking about it. On one hand, Dan established that most information was shared in the group because he didn't wanted to spend time on it. On the other hand, in some cases who told whom is interesting by itself.

Wait. How Nanase knew about Susan's angst-induced awakening?

10 minutes ago, Scotty said:
36 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Ashley probably wouldn't be able to resist opportunity to see some magic transformation no matter how she feels about magic. She might feel conflicted about it but not enough to resist.

Ashley's been pretty resistant so far, she opted for seeing a movie in a public place rather that in private where there could be a chance of Elliot transforming for fun or something. That'd be a big reason to avoid attending a get-together with people she recently learned has experienced magic in some form, she's trying to avoid temptation, probably not out of fear of giving into it, but out of the possibility of having a breakdown in front of everyone.

Putting aside the fact that the cinema might not be SO full to be fully public and that Ashley's reason seem to be specifically her bad experience at that house (I mean, she's not so convincing when she denies it), there is difference about avoiding attending a party with magic and avoiding magic when already being there. I'm not sure if she would try to reject the invitation ; but I don't believe she will be able to resist having fun with transformation when already there.

 

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25 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Wait. How Nanase knew about Susan's angst-induced awakening?

I'm assuming Susan told Nanase when she was showing Nanase the fairy doll, cus how else could Nanase tell Ellen that Susan's growth spurt was believed to be due to her awakening.

30 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

but I don't believe she will be able to resist having fun with transformation when already there.

Even if she doesn't resist, she might end up still feeling guilty about it later, like she betrayed herself for giving in, so there's still the whole part where Elliot hopes that Ashley getting comfortable enough to talk about what's bothering her that's key to all this, cus if she doesn't get over that hurdle first, then having a bit of transformation fun might just end up backfiring.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Wait. How Nanase knew about Susan's angst-induced awakening?

I'm assuming Susan told Nanase when she was showing Nanase the fairy doll, cus how else could Nanase tell Ellen that Susan's growth spurt was believed to be due to her awakening.

Hmmm ... that DOES make sense.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

but I don't believe she will be able to resist having fun with transformation when already there.

Even if she doesn't resist, she might end up still feeling guilty about it later, like she betrayed herself for giving in, so there's still the whole part where Elliot hopes that Ashley getting comfortable enough to talk about what's bothering her that's key to all this, cus if she doesn't get over that hurdle first, then having a bit of transformation fun might just end up backfiring.

Or, she might feel guilty about it immediately, prompting Elliot to ask and get her to talk about it.

Remember that this is universe where neither Susan nor Grace got therapy. They need to handle it alone and surprisingly it will work somehow.

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1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

Remember that this is universe where neither Susan nor Grace got therapy. They need to handle it alone and surprisingly it will work somehow.

Except Grace did end up talking about it, not initially of course, but it didn't take her long to open up about it with Tedd, and then again with her siblings. The event still effected her behaviour for a while after her birthday, but at least her friends knew what the sticking point was. Susan had already gone through some time after the France trip of not talking to anyone about it until Sarah insist, and then after her awakening and meeting Jerry, she did seem to feel better and was making an effort to not bottle up her emotions. the latest experience appears to undo all the progress she had made, kinda like how Ellen was worried that telling Tedd about his mom would cause Tedd to withdraw back to how he was when Elliot first met him*.

*I'd like to propose that Tedd post "There's a word for it" is Stage 3 Tedd, though I am unsure if that should include "Learned about being a Seer and giving Magic what for" or if the latter should be Stage 4 Tedd, seems odd to have Stage 3 Tedd only last a week. Either way, I'm sure it's not Tedd's final form. ;)

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Remember that this is universe where neither Susan nor Grace got therapy. They need to handle it alone and surprisingly it will work somehow.

Except Grace did end up talking about it, not initially of course, but it didn't take her long to open up about it with Tedd, and then again with her siblings.

Uh. I see I wasn't clear. I didn't meant "alone" as Susan alone and Grace alone. I meant the group will need to handle it without outside help (much less professional help).

Although you have point that Grace had her siblings and Susan had Jerry, who are both outside group. It was Ellen who got better without any outside help.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Susan had already gone through some time after the France trip of not talking to anyone about it until Sarah insist, and then after her awakening and meeting Jerry, she did seem to feel better and was making an effort to not bottle up her emotions. the latest experience appears to undo all the progress she had made

I don't think it undid the progress. She just found out she has longer path in front of her that she though. Like, we didn't saw so much of her afterwards so it may be just how I see it, but ... note that she went to cinema with Diane. I think that if it undid all the progress, she wouldn't go outside with anyone. Much less Diane.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Which Nanase didn't believed it would happen and, well ... it's possible it could ended worse if they told him compared to how Pandora told it, but I don't think it looked like he would end up AS bad.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

*I'd like to propose that Tedd post "There's a word for it" is Stage 3 Tedd, though I am unsure if that should include "Learned about being a Seer and giving Magic what for" or if the latter should be Stage 4 Tedd, seems odd to have Stage 3 Tedd only last a week. Either way, I'm sure it's not Tedd's final form. ;)

Yes, we got Stage 3 Tedd for just week. It was week full of events. And yes it's definitely not his final form, he doesn't have his gauntlet yet :). Also no wings. Final forms needs some wings. Preferably odd number of them, to REALLY drive home the fact aerodynamics has no say in it.

 

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I consider it somewhat unlikely (although certainly not impossible) that Susan has told anyone else about France. More likely, IMHO, she gave Sarah and/or Grace permission to pass the story on to the rest of the group. Which probably got done when Susan was elsewhere.

As for Nanase & others knowing about Susan's awakening, many ways that could have happened, and they don't necessarily know it was angst-induced. (Although I suspect they do.)

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1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

I consider it somewhat unlikely (although certainly not impossible) that Susan has told anyone else about France. More likely, IMHO, she gave Sarah and/or Grace permission to pass the story on to the rest of the group. Which probably got done when Susan was elsewhere.

I find somewhat unlikely she was narrating it, like she apparently did to Sarah and Grace. It's more believably she told it summarized it in few words.

1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

As for Nanase & others knowing about Susan's awakening, many ways that could have happened, and they don't necessarily know it was angst-induced. (Although I suspect they do.)

Ehmmm .... Nanase specifically said "When [Susan], Sarah and Grace went on that road trip, she had an angst-induced magic awakening."

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Just now, hkmaly said:

It was Ellen who got better without any outside help.

Nioi wasn't outside help? Not directly as in talking things out with Ellen, but the second life experience would have given Ellen a different perspective on things.

 

Just now, hkmaly said:

he doesn't have his gauntlet yet :)

Yeah he does. But he's yet to use it for an actual battle, soo....

Just now, hkmaly said:

Also no wings. Final forms needs some wings.

Wait. Does that mean Nanase has already capped out with her potential? Although, she did initially have fairy dolls which have wings, then upgraded to the Guardian Form, maybe there's a winged form beyond that?

Ellen's certainly acquired a winged form recently.

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16 hours ago, Scotty said:
23 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It was Ellen who got better without any outside help.

Nioi wasn't outside help? Not directly as in talking things out with Ellen, but the second life experience would have given Ellen a different perspective on things.

... damn you're right, we can't be sure Ellen would end up as well as she did without Nioi.

Ok. So, everyone had outside help. It just wasn't someone you would expect.

16 hours ago, Scotty said:
23 hours ago, hkmaly said:

he doesn't have his gauntlet yet :)

Yeah he does. But he's yet to use it for an actual battle, soo....

He's not wearing it, so it can't be final form until he does.

16 hours ago, Scotty said:

Wait. Does that mean Nanase has already capped out with her potential? Although, she did initially have fairy dolls which have wings, then upgraded to the Guardian Form, maybe there's a winged form beyond that?

Nah. There is always possibility for more potential. Nanase only has two wings and two whatever (EDIT: wait, it's tails), together with two hands and two legs that's just eight limbs. And obviously, having wings is necessary, not sufficient for final form (in mathematical sense).

That said, everything points to Nanase currently having most powerful form shown, despite obtaining it so long ago.

(Well ... ok, if we ignore the missing wings, Grace's Omega form may also be similarly powerful. Hmmm ... two hands, two legs, three tails, two antennae ... that's nine ...)

16 hours ago, Scotty said:

What's weird is that she already had one winged form with MORE limbs. Was it stronger? Usually it works that way ...

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41 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

What's weird is that she already had one winged form with MORE limbs. Was it stronger? Usually it works that way ...

The thing about copying Nanase's Guardian Form is that it might have been a fluke that she was able to, so she might not be able to do it again, or at least get the same results.

The "Dragon" form is pretty vague right now, apart from the figure we saw and the fact that she apparently "roared" her FV5(or something else?) beam, we don't know much else like whether it's a guardian form like Nanase's (we didn't see any mention of burnout being the reason for her hair and eye colour change) or if she could transform into that form whenever she wanted. We're left speculating for now.

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17 hours ago, ijuin said:
21 hours ago, hkmaly said:

What's weird is that she already had one winged form with MORE limbs. Was it stronger? Usually it works that way ...

I initially read your sentence as "one-winged form", and wondered when Ellen got Jenova cells.

I'm not surprised.

14 hours ago, Scotty said:
21 hours ago, hkmaly said:

What's weird is that she already had one winged form with MORE limbs. Was it stronger? Usually it works that way ...

The thing about copying Nanase's Guardian Form is that it might have been a fluke that she was able to, so she might not be able to do it again, or at least get the same results.

True.

14 hours ago, Scotty said:

The "Dragon" form is pretty vague right now, apart from the figure we saw and the fact that she apparently "roared" her FV5(or something else?) beam, we don't know much else like whether it's a guardian form like Nanase's (we didn't see any mention of burnout being the reason for her hair and eye colour change) or if she could transform into that form whenever she wanted. We're left speculating for now.

While we are not sure how this dragon form works, it DOES seem it will be more reliable than the Guardian Form she copied from Nanase, in the "that doesn't make the bar so high" sense.

Note that while it's hard to say what FV5 would do to golem, I would assume it wasn't FV5 beam.

And, while she wasn't casting any spells afterwards, I would assume we would be told if she has magic burnout. I'm pretty sure her green hair is permanent sign of her being infused with dragon magic. Also, she didn't used THAT much magic, yet they assume it will take long enough to wear off to be worth making wand for it ... pointing to at least them not assuming it's burnout (and, well, shouldn't Tedd be able to recognize the difference? Not speaking about DGB?)

 

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11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Note that while it's hard to say what FV5 would do to golem, I would assume it wasn't FV5 beam.

The beam was something that had a strong push to it, the only other instance of Ellen's FV5 beam pushing is when she zapped Vlad(ia) and that's because she put a lot more energy into it than anyone thought possible. It'd be easy to assume the the "Dragon" Form allowed Ellen to more easily fire an overcharged beam either equivalent to or more powerful than the one that transformed Vladia.

11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

And, while she wasn't casting any spells afterwards, I would assume we would be told if she has magic burnout. I'm pretty sure her green hair is permanent sign of her being infused with dragon magic. Also, she didn't used THAT much magic, yet they assume it will take long enough to wear off to be worth making wand for it ... pointing to at least them not assuming it's burnout (and, well, shouldn't Tedd be able to recognize the difference? Not speaking about DGB?)

If it was just the green hair, it'd be easy to assume burnout, but her eye colour also changed, which we never saw happen to Nanase (or Ellen after the copy spell team-up) so there was definitely something more to what happened to her.

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