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hkmaly

NP Wednesday, May 8, 2019

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http://egscomics.com/egsnp/fantasywasteland-14

I actually DID played games which lacked internal map and required to make a map on paper to not get lost. It was not experience I'm missing. And with sci-fi games, it actually makes sense that you have a device creating the map for you. Actually, it makes sense even in fantasy games: magical maps exists (including one Hogwarts map which even included fog of war removal).

... to conclude, my favorite way to handle it is for the character to obtain the map as item IN the game just far enough to not need to draw my own.

Now, regarding Sarah: I'm pretty sure that using her own spell would be much more effective than using a wand. Also, I'm not surprised she's using the wand anyway. Especially around Grace, who is unlikely to call her out on the fact that she's totally does it just for the fun.

(It would also be possible this is BEFORE she got the spell, EXCEPT in such case it would be watches, not wand.)

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1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

The focus has shifted from Grace, the game character, to Grace, the game player.

Does this mean a change, or end, to this story line?

End? Very unlikely. I do, however, wonder, if there will be few more strips from Grace the player POV before we return to the game character.

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

 Actually, it makes sense even in fantasy games: magical maps exists (including one Hogwarts map which even included fog of war removal).

Well, in the Harry Potter games (and novels upon which they were based), it's a plot point that Harry possesses the Marauder's Map, which was specifically created by James, Sirius, Remus, and Peter to track in real time all sapient beings within Hogwarts.

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3 minutes ago, ijuin said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Actually, it makes sense even in fantasy games: magical maps exists (including one Hogwarts map which even included fog of war removal).

Well, in the Harry Potter games (and novels upon which they were based), it's a plot point that Harry possesses the Marauder's Map, which was specifically created by James, Sirius, Remus, and Peter to track in real time all sapient beings within Hogwarts.

... I was actually talking just about the novels, I didn't played the Harry Potter games. But not surprised they put it there.

The point was that maps are not just for player convenience and that it makes sense for CHARACTERS to have them.

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Ok, I was just pointing out that for the Harry Potter example, the map was justified as part of the plot rather than being just something that was "standard issue" for the setting.

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17 minutes ago, ijuin said:

Ok, I was just pointing out that for the Harry Potter example, the map was justified as part of the plot rather than being just something that was "standard issue" for the setting.

... while map showing everybody's location wouldn't be "standard issue", I wouldn't be surprised if students would receive maps showing how the stairs are moving. Hogwarts seems more complicated than most universities, and I think my university had plans showing location of classrooms on walls ...

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50 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

my university had plans showing location of classrooms on walls …

Where I went to school, the buildings had one primary corridor on each level.  The first (or first two) numbers identified the floor and the last two identified the particular room.  Those rooms lined up with the low numbered rooms on one end and the high numbered rooms on the other.  Even and odd numbered rooms on alternate sides of the hall.

Our campus maps only showed the positions of the buildings in relation to each other.  Building directories only listed room numbers.  Those in charge of hospitality made a bold assumption that any one with business on a college campus would know how to count.

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6 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

The focus has shifted from Grace, the game character, to Grace, the game player.

Does this mean a change, or end, to this story line?

We can only hope.

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14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I actually DID played games which lacked internal map and required to make a map on paper to not get lost. It was not experience I'm missing. And with sci-fi games, it actually makes sense that you have a device creating the map for you. Actually, it makes sense even in fantasy games: magical maps exists (including one Hogwarts map which even included fog of war removal).

It really depends on the game, like for Skyrim, there's road signs pointing you in the direction of towns and cities, which makes between those places very doable without a map or compass. But if you're given a quest to go kill some bandits in a cave, they never say where the cave it or which direction to go, they're just "here, let me mark it's location on your map." So if you're doing a "no map, no compass" challenge, you either have memorized locations from previous playthroughs, or you're going to be spending a fair bit of time searching.

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14 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:
15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

my university had plans showing location of classrooms on walls …

Where I went to school, the buildings had one primary corridor on each level.  The first (or first two) numbers identified the floor and the last two identified the particular room.  Those rooms lined up with the low numbered rooms on one end and the high numbered rooms on the other.  Even and odd numbered rooms on alternate sides of the hall.

Our campus maps only showed the positions of the buildings in relation to each other.  Building directories only listed room numbers.  Those in charge of hospitality made a bold assumption that any one with business on a college campus would know how to count.

Well, in 14th century, the idea of university was new and they didn't realized how useful would be to have the building this regular and predictable ... ah, who am I kidding, even the newest building which is already from steel and glass is more complicated than that ... so it's not about age.

Some of the classrooms even have multiple doors on multiple floors. Also, not sure how were the classrooms numbered but I suspect they were ordered by size (it was definitely true that the classroom numbered X1 was the biggest in building X). It definitely didn't had anything to do with what floor were they on.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:
18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I actually DID played games which lacked internal map and required to make a map on paper to not get lost. It was not experience I'm missing. And with sci-fi games, it actually makes sense that you have a device creating the map for you. Actually, it makes sense even in fantasy games: magical maps exists (including one Hogwarts map which even included fog of war removal).

It really depends on the game, like for Skyrim, there's road signs pointing you in the direction of towns and cities, which makes between those places very doable without a map or compass. But if you're given a quest to go kill some bandits in a cave, they never say where the cave it or which direction to go, they're just "here, let me mark it's location on your map." So if you're doing a "no map, no compass" challenge, you either have memorized locations from previous playthroughs, or you're going to be spending a fair bit of time searching.

Finding a cave about which only thing you know is the location on map without map sounds less like challenge and more like stupidity. However, I suspect Dan was trying it for walking between places he already know about from the same gameplay.

 

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The high school I attended was an older building that grew. I believe it had had at least four additions, and possibly five or six, onto the original structure. In addition the school library was in a much-newer adjacent building, and there were two other buildings with classrooms.

There was one classroom that was in the main building but you couldn't get to it from inside the main building.

Room numbers were a mess.

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19 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

The high school I attended was an older building that grew. I believe it had had at least four additions, and possibly five or six, onto the original structure. In addition the school library was in a much-newer adjacent building, and there were two other buildings with classrooms.

There was one classroom that was in the main building but you couldn't get to it from inside the main building.

Room numbers were a mess.

That's no High School.

That's a Hospital.

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2 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

There was one classroom that was in the main building but you couldn't get to it from inside the main building.

... ok, you won.

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Regarding in-game maps, I prefer it when you either acquire the map through the story, or it fills in as you go along (as if you were making the map yourself, but without the hassle). It's a little immersion breaking when you start with the map for a place your character never visited before and had no reason to have a map for.

Similarly, I prefer when map markers are justified in story; telling you where to go when the player character wouldn't know is immersion breaking.

I'm not usually too concerned with maps and markers making the game too easy, though if the map's too thorough it can ruin the fun of exploration, and sometimes the map markers point out destinations so obvious it feels insulting. (I'm reminded of Metroid: Other M, where they put in goal markers every few rooms - and this in a game where most of the major areas were comprised largely of long series of rooms and corridors with no branches.)

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8 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Regarding in-game maps, I prefer it when you either acquire the map through the story, or it fills in as you go along (as if you were making the map yourself, but without the hassle). It's a little immersion breaking when you start with the map for a place your character never visited before and had no reason to have a map for.

I though filling in as you go is default?

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24 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I though filling in as you go is default?

Not in the games I play. Mind you, filling-in-as-you-go is not uncommon - it's just that maps-as-items and maps-that-you-start-with are equally common (and there's also a sizeable number of games that don't have maps at all). Of course, the majority of games I play were made in the 80s or 90s; I don't play enough recent games to be able to say what's normal (or default) for today's games.

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Heck the entire Doom series, it would make perfect sense for you to have maps for most levels before you enter the first level... but you don't.

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18 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Heck the entire Doom series, it would make perfect sense for you to have maps for most levels before you enter the first level... but you don't.

... IDDT :)

 

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