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Tom Sewell

Story, Wednesday, May 15, 2018

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"You don't want to say it's for me so I don't feel pressured" ... "Yeah, exactly ... is it working?"

I'm not exactly sure if it should work - or if it worked - but those two are really made for each other.

Also, "Nanase, Ellen and Tedd". Because Susan may not be there and Sarah can't actually SHOW her magic to anyone, not speaking about the fact that she shouldn't be using it at all it Tedd's house because she should keep it secret from Edward. And Grace has magic only technically. And Justin is awakened but noone knows yet, although he can still show her some illusions.

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm not exactly sure if it should work - or if it worked - but those two are really made for each other.

Liz seemed to think so.

5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

And Grace has magic only technically.

"Technically" uryuoms have magic magic again.

 

Edited by Tom Sewell
Wrong link.

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3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm not exactly sure if it should work - or if it worked - but those two are really made for each other.

Liz seemed to think so.

The link not being accessible due to lack of IP address and protocol notwithstanding, yes I know.

3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

And Grace has magic only technically.

"Technically" uryuoms have magic magic again.

They can USE magic magic. We are still not sure how it works: if Grace now counts are really awakened and not just technically awakened, if she can get spells, if she already got one, if uryuom energy now can be used just as magic, if she can convert it or just use ambient magic. Only thing we know is that she's using magic - "magic magic" as you said - when resizing her clothes.

Note that I'm sure Tedd knows answer to at least some of those questions at this point.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

I'm not exactly sure if it should work - or if it worked - but those two are really made for each other.

Elliot was being truthful, even though he was dancing around the idea that the party is for her, Ashley saw through that and thinks it's sweet that Elliot's trying to help her despite her not teling him what's bother her.

Just now, hkmaly said:

Also, "Nanase, Ellen and Tedd". Because Susan may not be there and Sarah can't actually SHOW her magic to anyone, not speaking about the fact that she shouldn't be using it at all it Tedd's house because she should keep it secret from Edward. And Grace has magic only technically. And Justin is awakened but noone knows yet, although he can still show her some illusions.

She knows Nanase and Ellen can use magic because she's briefly met them and seen them use magic (Nanase's fairy doll, and Ellen's dragony thing), and Tedd she learned was involved in Ellen's creation, was also involved in magic "changing/notchanging" and that she's supposed to train to be a wizard under his supervision (is this going to be a pun for Tedd because he's a Seer?).

She might expect Sarah and Susan to have, or at least know about magic, probably more so on the "have" with Susan considering her "Hammer Queen" reputation, but she hasn't been officially told yet, and she's never met Grace and Justin, unless she's been to the comic shop looking for manga and even then she'd probably not know they were associated with Elliot. And yeah, Tedd, Grace and Sarah are only 95% sure that Justin is awakened, might be able to confirm it at the party. And Sarah shouldn't have any issue using her spell at Tedd's since Edward won't be there, as much as we've come to believe that the Verres' house has pretty good magic security, I don't think there has been any evidence that anything Tedd does in the basement get's recorded. At the very least recording might happen when an intruder trips one of the wards, and since those coming to the party are all basically whitelisted for entry, it should be no problem.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

They can USE magic magic. We are still not sure how it works: if Grace now counts are really awakened and not just technically awakened, if she can get spells, if she already got one, if uryuom energy now can be used just as magic, if she can convert it or just use ambient magic. Only thing we know is that she's using magic - "magic magic" as you said - when resizing her clothes.

It's possible that Uryuoms didn't have to awaken like humans do, Edward did say that the wand would give a false positive for Grace being awakened and said that it would be the same for all Uryuoms and Greater Chimeras, so it's possible they're Uryuom Power counts as being awakened. We also know that sometime in the distant past, Uryuoms attempted to take control of Heka's library for some reason, like there was a crisis that Heka was sympathetic to but wasn't able to give them what they wanted due to the nature of the magic involved, and the Uryuoms ended up getting themselves blocked from using Magic. Grace, and presumably other Greater Chimeras could still eventually learn Magic due to their Human side but they'd have to suppress their Uryuom side, but suppressing that power meant basically tricking Magic into believing they were unawakened Humans, thus the idea of Grace needing to awaken to use Magic.

Now that the restriction to Uryuoms is gone, Grace could possibly use Magic with Uryuom Power in much the same way that Nanase can burn calories to cast spells.

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12 hours ago, Scotty said:
18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm not exactly sure if it should work - or if it worked - but those two are really made for each other.

Elliot was being truthful, even though he was dancing around the idea that the party is for her, Ashley saw through that and thinks it's sweet that Elliot's trying to help her despite her not teling him what's bother her.

Yeah, but does she feel the pressure?

12 hours ago, Scotty said:

She knows Nanase and Ellen can use magic because she's briefly met them and seen them use magic (Nanase's fairy doll, and Ellen's dragony thing), and Tedd she learned was involved in Ellen's creation, was also involved in magic "changing/notchanging" and that she's supposed to train to be a wizard under his supervision (is this going to be a pun for Tedd because he's a Seer?).

I'm not sure if she really saw anything from Ellen's "dragony" thing. She was hiding. She did HEARD it, though :)

12 hours ago, Scotty said:

she's never met Grace and Justin, unless she's been to the comic shop looking for manga and even then she'd probably not know they were associated with Elliot

... sounds unlikely she would skip the comic shop, on the other hand, wouldn't Justin notice someone who spends hours there? ... wait, did we saw Justin interacting with Ashley yet? Maybe he DOES know her.

12 hours ago, Scotty said:

And yeah, Tedd, Grace and Sarah are only 95% sure that Justin is awakened, might be able to confirm it at the party.

Unless they already forgot about that.

12 hours ago, Scotty said:

And Sarah shouldn't have any issue using her spell at Tedd's since Edward won't be there, as much as we've come to believe that the Verres' house has pretty good magic security, I don't think there has been any evidence that anything Tedd does in the basement get's recorded. At the very least recording might happen when an intruder trips one of the wards, and since those coming to the party are all basically whitelisted for entry, it should be no problem.

Evidence, no. I still think everything is being recorded. Full disclosure, remember?

12 hours ago, Scotty said:

It's possible that Uryuoms didn't have to awaken like humans do, Edward did say that the wand would give a false positive for Grace being awakened and said that it would be the same for all Uryuoms and Greater Chimeras, so it's possible they're Uryuom Power counts as being awakened.

Yes. However, that was information based on magic system which limited Uryuoms access to magic. We don't know how it works after the change.

12 hours ago, Scotty said:

We also know that sometime in the distant past, Uryuoms attempted to take control of Heka's library for some reason, like there was a crisis that Heka was sympathetic to but wasn't able to give them what they wanted due to the nature of the magic involved, and the Uryuoms ended up getting themselves blocked from using Magic.

Maybe they tried to move the library to their world, hoping it will give them magic there? Based on how they decided to attack the library with no idea how well it's protected, I would say that their understanding of magic was severely limited. Meaning, their actions may not actually make sense.

12 hours ago, Scotty said:

Grace, and presumably other Greater Chimeras could still eventually learn Magic due to their Human side but they'd have to suppress their Uryuom side, but suppressing that power meant basically tricking Magic into believing they were unawakened Humans, thus the idea of Grace needing to awaken to use Magic.

It's not actually about tricking magic. Only one being tricked is them. It's something like learning to write with your non-dominant hand: it's harder because you already know how to do it with your dominant hand and you need to deliberately NOT use it and use your non-dominant hand instead.

But, yes, the result would be that their human half (...or quarter, in Grace's case, but Noah might actually be half-human ...) would awaken just like humans do.

12 hours ago, Scotty said:

Now that the restriction to Uryuoms is gone, Grace could possibly use Magic with Uryuom Power in much the same way that Nanase can burn calories to cast spells.

Maybe. We don't know anything about HOW can Grace use magic. The "like Nanase can burn calories to cast spells" would be the "she can convert it" option from what I mentioned. I'm looking forward to find out more.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Yeah, but does she feel the pressure?

That remains to be seen, she's willing despite knowing she might be the focus of the party, but as the day of the party gets closer, she might get nervous about it.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm not sure if she really saw anything from Ellen's "dragony" thing. She was hiding. She did HEARD it, though :)

She knows Ellen absorbed the same power she did, and then we have the "Dragon-five!". So even if she didn't see Ellen become a dragon, she believes they got dragon power.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Unless they already forgot about that.

If they're going to talk about their magic and such, Justin might mention believing he got his strictly through martial arts training, which would likely remind Tedd, Grace or Sarah about how Justin could have easily been Awakened by Pandora (among other ways).

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Evidence, no. I still think everything is being recorded. Full disclosure, remember?

I think Tedd would know what kind of protections Edward has in the house, besides, in the week leading up to the attack at the mall and such, Sarah would have been using her spell several times an hour throughout the day, and it's possible some of that time might have been spent at Tedd's, I would assume that Tedd would have advised against using magic at his place if he felt his dad was recording everything.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Yes. However, that was information based on magic system which limited Uryuoms access to magic. We don't know how it works after the change.

True but based on how Grace was suddenly able to morph her clothes with her easily, and how that mysterious Uryuom was using a wand of fire, it's clearly related to the blockage caused by an earlier system change.

Maybe the blockage, only prevented Uryuoms and Greater Chimeras from casting spells with Uryuom Power, but it didn't prevent them from learning the spells. If Grace used a spell to resize her clothing when she morphed, how did she learn that spell? I don't think it was immediately given to her when the restrictions were lifted, it's possible she had already learned the spell through her attempts to use the watches or other methods Tedd may have tried to get her to be able to morph her clothes with her, Tedd did have Ellen demonstrate her FV5 with clothing resize in order to learn it, maybe she zapped Grace to do so.

 

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26 minutes ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm not sure if she really saw anything from Ellen's "dragony" thing. She was hiding. She did HEARD it, though :)

She knows Ellen absorbed the same power she did, and then we have the "Dragon-five!". So even if she didn't see Ellen become a dragon, she believes they got dragon power.

No objection here. I was just saying she almost certainly didn't SAW anything, meaning Ellen still owes her some demonstration of her powers.

28 minutes ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Unless they already forgot about that.

If they're going to talk about their magic and such, Justin might mention believing he got his strictly through martial arts training, which would likely remind Tedd, Grace or Sarah about how Justin could have easily been Awakened by Pandora (among other ways).

Sounds good. However, Dan was avoiding anyone realizing Justin awakened so long I'm still afraid he will find some excuse to postpone it even more.

30 minutes ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Evidence, no. I still think everything is being recorded. Full disclosure, remember?

I think Tedd would know what kind of protections Edward has in the house, besides, in the week leading up to the attack at the mall and such, Sarah would have been using her spell several times an hour throughout the day, and it's possible some of that time might have been spent at Tedd's, I would assume that Tedd would have advised against using magic at his place if he felt his dad was recording everything.

It's possible he DID advised and that she DIDN'T used her spell in her house. Remember that when she showed it, it was in HER house and he did mentioned how the spell interacts with everything around.

33 minutes ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Yes. However, that was information based on magic system which limited Uryuoms access to magic. We don't know how it works after the change.

True but based on how Grace was suddenly able to morph her clothes with her easily, and how that mysterious Uryuom was using a wand of fire, it's clearly related to the blockage caused by an earlier system change.

Yes. Something clearly changed, but that doesn't tell us what exactly.

34 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Maybe the blockage, only prevented Uryuoms and Greater Chimeras from casting spells with Uryuom Power, but it didn't prevent them from learning the spells. If Grace used a spell to resize her clothing when she morphed, how did she learn that spell? I don't think it was immediately given to her when the restrictions were lifted, it's possible she had already learned the spell through her attempts to use the watches or other methods Tedd may have tried to get her to be able to morph her clothes with her, Tedd did have Ellen demonstrate her FV5 with clothing resize in order to learn it, maybe she zapped Grace to do so.

It is also possible the way magic works for Uryuom is still different from how it works for humans and she did NOT used ANY spell. What constitutes spell is already unclear, with Justin's illusions apparently not counting. Her resizing clothes might be magic extending natural Uryuom abilities in way which doesn't count as spell OR counts as spell every Uryuom (and Greater Chimera) having from birth.

We will not know if she is using spell until Tedd says so or until she gets spellbook and the spell will be there.

However, there is one hint: Grace transformed for Smoke, and between the tails and her being higher, that transformation COULD'VE includes clothing.

Despite this, when Edward was talking about it, he did talked about uryuom transformations as something different than spells, and what's more important (because Edward's informations might've been out of date), Tedd didn't correct him; he DID corrected him that seer would be able to tell the difference, but nothing about it being spell, and nothing about Grace gaining new abilities after the reset possibly changing what Edward is saying. (Note that considering Edward is wizard, they could easily TEST that nothing changed and Grace's spell can't be copied - Grace only needs to transform while Edward is looking.)

While it can be just Dan not thinking it through, I would say it's hint that Grace's transformations are still supposed to work differently from humans. Although, it's possible she can awaken her human half magic more easily now.

 

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3 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Sounds good. However, Dan was avoiding anyone realizing Justin awakened so long I'm still afraid he will find some excuse to postpone it even more.

If it doesn't get mentioned, it's probably just as likely Dan forgot about it, though I'm sure someone will remind him on social media or something.

5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It's possible he DID advised and that she DIDN'T used her spell in her house. Remember that when she showed it, it was in HER house and he did mentioned how the spell interacts with everything around.

I still didn't see Tedd mention that it'd be a bad idea to use the spell at his place, I'd like to think that it'd be some sort of confirmation if Tedd agreed with Pandora that his dad shouldn't learn about it.

16 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It is also possible the way magic works for Uryuom is still different from how it works for humans and she did NOT used ANY spell. What constitutes spell is already unclear, with Justin's illusions apparently not counting. Her resizing clothes might be magic extending natural Uryuom abilities in way which doesn't count as spell OR counts as spell every Uryuom (and Greater Chimera) having from birth.

We will not know if she is using spell until Tedd says so or until she gets spellbook and the spell will be there.

However, there is one hint: Grace transformed for Smoke, and between the tails and her being higher, that transformation COULD'VE includes clothing.

Despite this, when Edward was talking about it, he did talked about uryuom transformations as something different than spells, and what's more important (because Edward's informations might've been out of date), Tedd didn't correct him; he DID corrected him that seer would be able to tell the difference, but nothing about it being spell, and nothing about Grace gaining new abilities after the reset possibly changing what Edward is saying. (Note that considering Edward is wizard, they could easily TEST that nothing changed and Grace's spell can't be copied - Grace only needs to transform while Edward is looking.)

While it can be just Dan not thinking it through, I would say it's hint that Grace's transformations are still supposed to work differently from humans. Although, it's possible she can awaken her human half magic more easily now.

It has to be some sort of Magic/Uryuom Power interaction though, cus if it was all Uryuom power, how could the system change only selectively affect parts of what Uryuoms could do, we didn't see Tedd actually examine Grace using her morph with clothing resize to determine if there was Magic involved or not, but I'd expect him to have done so, and if he determined that Grace wasn't using magic, then it it's either because Uryuom Power and Magic were once interchangeable and Magic just blocked Uryuoms from using Magic spells with Uryuom Power or Uryuoms had their natural abilities blocked by Magic, something that even the Emissary was sure couldn't happen because their power is interwoven into their very nature.

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5 minutes ago, Scotty said:
35 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It's possible he DID advised and that she DIDN'T used her spell in her house. Remember that when she showed it, it was in HER house and he did mentioned how the spell interacts with everything around.

I still didn't see Tedd mention that it'd be a bad idea to use the spell at his place, I'd like to think that it'd be some sort of confirmation if Tedd agreed with Pandora that his dad shouldn't learn about it.

Yeah, I don't remember it being directly stated. I'm just saying it would make sense and that we are NOT shown every detail.

6 minutes ago, Scotty said:

It has to be some sort of Magic/Uryuom Power interaction though

Yes. Some sort. We just don't know WHAT sort.

7 minutes ago, Scotty said:

cus if it was all Uryuom power, how could the system change only selectively affect parts of what Uryuoms could do, we didn't see Tedd actually examine Grace using her morph with clothing resize to determine if there was Magic involved or not, but I'd expect him to have done so

He DID looked at her enchanted clothes, and I would assume Grace talking about what happened with Sarah was preceded by LOT of experiments observed by Tedd. We just didn't saw it.

12 minutes ago, Scotty said:

and Magic just blocked Uryuoms from using Magic spells

We don't know if Uryuoms can learn spells OR if they ever did. We know they can somehow use magic and that it was blocked by Will of Magic until recently. But specifically spells? We don't know.

 

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8 hours ago, hkmaly said:

He DID looked at her enchanted clothes,

As far as we know, Tedd doesn't "see" the end results, just spell as it's being cast. Or else Tedd should have been able to figure out he could "see" magic a lot sooner, heck, the line "If I can just get a good look at the spell in action" suggests his seer ability only activates when he's looking at a spell being cast.

8 hours ago, hkmaly said:

We don't know if Uryuoms can learn spells OR if they ever did. We know they can somehow use magic and that it was blocked by Will of Magic until recently. But specifically spells? We don't know.

We have Grace as an example, it's been revealed that yes she could learn magic IF she could suppress her Uryuom Power, and she knows it, but she hasn't made any attempt to do so and yet she's suddenly able to do something no one thought Uryuoms or Greater Chimera could do without training for Magic? And IF the clothing morph is not a spell the only other thing it can be is something that part of her shapeshifting which again doesn't make sense why she was never able to do so in the first place because if Uryuom shapeshifting couldn't be affected by a Magic system change, then how could it be blocked without blocking all Uryuom shapeshifting. It's a paradox to try to separate what Uryuoms could and couldn't do at that point if all of it was natural to them, so my only explanation would be that the clothing resize wasn't an Uryuom's natural ability. So it becomes a question of how did Grace suddenly become able to use it? and my best guess is as I've said before, it is magic that she may have learned through attempts to use the watches with Uryuom Power,  but couldn't use because Magic had long ago said "Nope, Uryuom Power can't be used for spells anymore." and the only evidence that Uryuom power could be used to cast magic, is the fact that Nanase could use physical energy(calories) to cast spells, I'm certain that ability is not unique to Nanase, but she's got the discipline for it and there's the whole "increased food requirements" and possible other side effects keep it from being commonly used(maybe she burned a load of physical energy casting those last few fairy dolls and the guardian form fighting Abraham which contributed to her collapsing from exhaustion).

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Re-reading, set off by some of the links here, has led me to evidence that Grace suspects Rhoda and Catalina can use magic and might like to talk to someone about it.  Think she'll suggest inviting them, too?  Let's see, potential additonal invitees include Diane, Catalina, Rhoda....Greg?  Charlotte?....anyone else we can think of?

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33 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Re-reading, set off by some of the links here, has led me to evidence that Grace suspects Rhoda and Catalina can use magic and might like to talk to someone about it.  Think she'll suggest inviting them, too?  Let's see, potential additonal invitees include Diane, Catalina, Rhoda....Greg?  Charlotte?....anyone else we can think of?

Greg's completely in the know about the main 8 from Ellen's origin (and it's possible Elliot has updated him on recent events) to Grace's origin but we know his feelings about attending a party with teenagers, and magic shenanigans so I doubt he'd accept an invite in this case either. Diane and Charlotte do not yet know about Ellen and Grace's origins, Diane didn't appear to have connected Grace with Shade tail after seeing her on New Years Eve, I'm not sure if Diane would attend either though cus she might feel awkward about the whole "I was considering seducing Elliot" bit, also she's now dating Lucy and Lucy isn't in the know so it's either go to a party without Lucy, or possibly get in trouble for bringing someone Edward hasn't been able to do a background check on yet.

I think that's also a key point, has Edward done background checks on everyone that the main eight knows? how many layers deep does it go? Grace suspects Rhoda and Catalina have magic but now real proof yet, Catalina suspected that Elliot was Cheerleadra but we don't know if Edward's fake sighting changed her mind about it, I think Grace would have to talk to Rhoda first and confirm things before she can consider inviting her to a party and then there's still Edward's approval too.

I think keeping it at 9 participants (assuming Susan changes her mind and attends) would be best because as it is that's a lot of characters to juggle in a story, it'd be nice if others could attend, but it'd probably make it more difficult to have any meaningful interactions.

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12 hours ago, Scotty said:
19 hours ago, hkmaly said:

He DID looked at her enchanted clothes,

As far as we know, Tedd doesn't "see" the end results, just spell as it's being cast. Or else Tedd should have been able to figure out he could "see" magic a lot sooner, heck, the line "If I can just get a good look at the spell in action" suggests his seer ability only activates when he's looking at a spell being cast.

Well he definitely looked as expecting to see something. Might be that while he sees lot of things when spell is being cast, he needed some training to see even just something with active spells ...

... or, he was so surprised he forgot he can't see anything :)

12 hours ago, Scotty said:
19 hours ago, hkmaly said:

We don't know if Uryuoms can learn spells OR if they ever did. We know they can somehow use magic and that it was blocked by Will of Magic until recently. But specifically spells? We don't know.

We have Grace as an example, it's been revealed that yes she could learn magic IF she could suppress her Uryuom Power, and she knows it, but she hasn't made any attempt to do so and yet she's suddenly able to do something no one thought Uryuoms or Greater Chimera could do without training for Magic? And IF the clothing morph is not a spell the only other thing it can be is something that part of her shapeshifting which again doesn't make sense why she was never able to do so in the first place because if Uryuom shapeshifting couldn't be affected by a Magic system change, then how could it be blocked without blocking all Uryuom shapeshifting. It's a paradox to try to separate what Uryuoms could and couldn't do at that point if all of it was natural to them, so my only explanation would be that the clothing resize wasn't an Uryuom's natural ability. So it becomes a question of how did Grace suddenly become able to use it? and my best guess is as I've said before, it is magic that she may have learned through attempts to use the watches with Uryuom Power,  but couldn't use because Magic had long ago said "Nope, Uryuom Power can't be used for spells anymore."

Sigh. This is going in circles.

Try to focus on different example which I already mentioned: Justin. Before being awakened. He didn't have ANY spells, because if he had spell, he would be black belt. However, he was still able to cast illusions. That wasn't his natural ability, it was definitely magic, but NOT A SPELL.

It's not only example. When Nanase's hair grown at accelerated rate, it was magic but not a spell. Susan's growth spurt was not a spell.

Dan didn't clearly explained the difference, but there must be one. There is way to use magic which doesn't count as casting spell.

12 hours ago, Scotty said:

the only evidence that Uryuom power could be used to cast magic, is the fact that Nanase could use physical energy(calories) to cast spells, I'm certain that ability is not unique to Nanase, but she's got the discipline for it and there's the whole "increased food requirements" and possible other side effects keep it from being commonly used(maybe she burned a load of physical energy casting those last few fairy dolls and the guardian form fighting Abraham which contributed to her collapsing from exhaustion).

Definitely not unique to Nanase and likely part of ASMA training. And yes, she was already a fairy doll spell away from burning out when she cast the guardian form so it makes sense she was also using physical energy.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Greg's completely in the know about the main 8 from Ellen's origin (and it's possible Elliot has updated him on recent events) to Grace's origin but we know his feelings about attending a party with teenagers, and magic shenanigans so I doubt he'd accept an invite in this case either.

Probably not ALL recent events but yes, he's unlikely to go anyway.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Diane and Charlotte do not yet know about Ellen and Grace's origins, Diane didn't appear to have connected Grace with Shade tail after seeing her on New Years Eve, I'm not sure if Diane would attend either though cus she might feel awkward about the whole "I was considering seducing Elliot" bit, also she's now dating Lucy and Lucy isn't in the know so it's either go to a party without Lucy, or possibly get in trouble for bringing someone Edward hasn't been able to do a background check on yet.

Diane would likely also have same reason to not come as Susan.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I think that's also a key point, has Edward done background checks on everyone that the main eight knows? how many layers deep does it go? Grace suspects Rhoda and Catalina have magic but now real proof yet, Catalina suspected that Elliot was Cheerleadra but we don't know if Edward's fake sighting changed her mind about it, I think Grace would have to talk to Rhoda first and confirm things before she can consider inviting her to a party and then there's still Edward's approval too.

Considering Grace teaches Rhoda and Rhoda teaches Grace, and it might've happened in Edward's house at least sometimes, I would assume he DID background check on Rhoda. Catalina? I don't think he has any reason. Yet.

After Edward berating Grace for loose lips, she MIGHT at least consider it would be good idea to tell Edward about her suspicion before inviting them. Sure, she deliberately kept Sam secret (and Edward at least pretended he don't know about him), but inviting them to house is something else.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I think keeping it at 9 participants (assuming Susan changes her mind and attends) would be best because as it is that's a lot of characters to juggle in a story, it'd be nice if others could attend, but it'd probably make it more difficult to have any meaningful interactions.

Yes, 9 participants will already be plenty and inviting Rhoda would likely complicate things too much even if she wouldn't bring Catalina and Diane with her.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Well he definitely looked as expecting to see something. Might be that while he sees lot of things when spell is being cast, he needed some training to see even just something with active spells ...

... or, he was so surprised he forgot he can't see anything :)

I saw it as Tedd going over various reasons Grace could have been able to do that, if he was actively "looking" for a spell, he'd mention if there was something he could see, and we do know that Tedd can tell the difference between a spell that wizards can't learn from watching, and Grace's abilities. Which brings us back to Tedd needing to see the spell or ability in action.

Of course, Edward has a spell that can tell him what enchantment someone is under, and give him details about what it does. It shouldn't take much to learn that spell and make a wand for it to be able to use to see if Grace did enchant herself (if it is Magic) or if it's not an enchantment (her own ability)

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Try to focus on different example which I already mentioned: Justin. Before being awakened. He didn't have ANY spells, because if he had spell, he would be black belt. However, he was still able to cast illusions. That wasn't his natural ability, it was definitely magic, but NOT A SPELL.

How are they not spells? they're magic, they may not have much function other than to look cool, but if they're not a natural ability, then they must be a spell. It either just proves that there is a loophole for someone who's already "dreaming" to also be marked with another spell, or Magic is more flexible in how people get spells before they awaken.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It's not only example. When Nanase's hair grown at accelerated rate, it was magic but not a spell. Susan's growth spurt was not a spell.

Nanase's hair growth was attributed to her magic energy needing somewhere to go, instead of being an energy buildup like in Elliot's case, except for Nanase's it was much less embarrassing.

Susan's growth spurt was initially attributed to her awakening, but only because it was a convenient explanation for how her and Diane could be twins. Since they aren't twins, and in fact, there's several generations between them, can we really be certain that the growth spurt was magic related, and not just genetic?

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Dan didn't clearly explained the difference, but there must be one. There is way to use magic which doesn't count as casting spell.

Again, I don't know how that can't be considered casting a spell, you use magic energy to get a specified effect, that's the basic definition of casting a spell.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Definitely not unique to Nanase and likely part of ASMA training.

I'm not entirely certain that it's strictly ASMA related, but I concede that we haven't seen anyone else claim to be able to use physical energy in place of magic energy, I just find it hard to believe that Nanase would be the only one that can.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Probably not ALL recent events

Well at least as much as Elliot knows that would be relevant to his desire to learn to fight while flying (both his encounter with Tara, and his attempt to fight Magus).

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Diane would likely also have same reason to not come as Susan.

Susan would probably have to specifically invite Diane, and only if both were willing to talk about their experience, which they're not so it's unlikely. I think much of the reason Susan's refusing to say anything isn't just cus she's having difficulty processing what happened, but it might mean talking about Diane's much closer relation to Adrian and Pandora, and I think she would rather Diane start the conversation about all that.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Considering Grace teaches Rhoda and Rhoda teaches Grace, and it might've happened in Edward's house at least sometimes, I would assume he DID background check on Rhoda. Catalina? I don't think he has any reason. Yet.

I'm not entirely certain about Rhoda having already been to the Verres' house, they would have had to stay out of the basement of course, but also Tedd couldn't do any experimenting while she was there. Also in "Death Sentence" Tedd only knew Rhoda as "that girl who was on the news when the creepy little girl appeared", which meant Tedd had gone through the rest of March (when Adrian set up Grace and Rhoda to tutor each other), April, and into May without meeting Rhoda in person. It's still unclear if Tedd's ever actually been introduced to Rhoda.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

After Edward berating Grace for loose lips, she MIGHT at least consider it would be good idea to tell Edward about her suspicion before inviting them.

There's that, but she did seem pretty eager to talk to Rhoda despite Edward's berating.

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:
6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Well he definitely looked as expecting to see something. Might be that while he sees lot of things when spell is being cast, he needed some training to see even just something with active spells ...

... or, he was so surprised he forgot he can't see anything :)

I saw it as Tedd going over various reasons Grace could have been able to do that, if he was actively "looking" for a spell, he'd mention if there was something he could see, and we do know that Tedd can tell the difference between a spell that wizards can't learn from watching, and Grace's abilities. Which brings us back to Tedd needing to see the spell or ability in action.

It really LOOKS as he is trying to find out something by looking at her. I agree however that he SHOULD need to see the ability in action.

I have no doubts Grace DID show him when he realized that.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Of course, Edward has a spell that can tell him what enchantment someone is under, and give him details about what it does. It shouldn't take much to learn that spell and make a wand for it to be able to use to see if Grace did enchant herself (if it is Magic) or if it's not an enchantment (her own ability)

It shouldn't take much for Tedd to learn it and make a wand for it. However, that spell might not work on Grace's abilities because of Uryuom magic involved (it should still be able to report SOMETHING from those clothes, at least). Also, I suspect Tedd didn't learned it yet.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:
6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Try to focus on different example which I already mentioned: Justin. Before being awakened. He didn't have ANY spells, because if he had spell, he would be black belt. However, he was still able to cast illusions. That wasn't his natural ability, it was definitely magic, but NOT A SPELL.

How are they not spells? they're magic, they may not have much function other than to look cool, but if they're not a natural ability, then they must be a spell. It either just proves that there is a loophole for someone who's already "dreaming" to also be marked with another spell, or Magic is more flexible in how people get spells before they awaken.

How? Hard to say. But they obviously are NOT. You can't dismiss canon just because you don't understand it. Well, ok, you can, but don't expect meaningful discussion then.

Also, yes, Justin WAS dreaming and WAS marked with a spell, and his illusion ability didn't interfered.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Nanase's hair growth was attributed to her magic energy needing somewhere to go, instead of being an energy buildup like in Elliot's case, except for Nanase's it was much less embarrassing.

Yes. Regardless, it was magic and it was not a spell.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Susan's growth spurt was initially attributed to her awakening, but only because it was a convenient explanation for how her and Diane could be twins. Since they aren't twins, and in fact, there's several generations between them, can we really be certain that the growth spurt was magic related, and not just genetic?

... good point. I still think it WAS due to awakening, but it's true we can no longer be sure about it. There is obviously lot of magic hidden influence behind them looking so similar with so many generations of difference - magic likely deliberately did it to hint at their relationship, because it would be dramatic.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:
6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Dan didn't clearly explained the difference, but there must be one. There is way to use magic which doesn't count as casting spell.

Again, I don't know how that can't be considered casting a spell, you use magic energy to get a specified effect, that's the basic definition of casting a spell.

That may be your definition. Either Seers in EGS came with some more exact definition based on informations they have and we don't, or spell is defined based on being written in spellbook after awakening.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:
6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Definitely not unique to Nanase and likely part of ASMA training.

I'm not entirely certain that it's strictly ASMA related, but I concede that we haven't seen anyone else claim to be able to use physical energy in place of magic energy, I just find it hard to believe that Nanase would be the only one that can.

Not "strictly", as in someone else might be also teaching it, but it sounds like something based on martial arts ideas. I would assume Noriko is able to do that.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:
6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Probably not ALL recent events

Well at least as much as Elliot knows that would be relevant to his desire to learn to fight while flying (both his encounter with Tara, and his attempt to fight Magus).

I think that Elliot didn't tell him anything not related to flying even if he knew it. Need to know, not his secret to tell etc. You have point however that quite a lot of things ARE related to his flying ... Elliot might've been vague about who is Magus but he could also told him everything about him.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:
6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Diane would likely also have same reason to not come as Susan.

Susan would probably have to specifically invite Diane, and only if both were willing to talk about their experience, which they're not so it's unlikely.

I'm not sure, Diane MIGHT accept invitation from Nanase. By "same reason" I meant that they are not ready/willing to talk about their experience.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

I think much of the reason Susan's refusing to say anything isn't just cus she's having difficulty processing what happened, but it might mean talking about Diane's much closer relation to Adrian and Pandora, and I think she would rather Diane start the conversation about all that.

I don't think so. However, she would likely want to talk to Diane and/or Adrian about it first, and she's not ready for that yet.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:
6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Considering Grace teaches Rhoda and Rhoda teaches Grace, and it might've happened in Edward's house at least sometimes, I would assume he DID background check on Rhoda. Catalina? I don't think he has any reason. Yet.

I'm not entirely certain about Rhoda having already been to the Verres' house, they would have had to stay out of the basement of course, but also Tedd couldn't do any experimenting while she was there. Also in "Death Sentence" Tedd only knew Rhoda as "that girl who was on the news when the creepy little girl appeared", which meant Tedd had gone through the rest of March (when Adrian set up Grace and Rhoda to tutor each other), April, and into May without meeting Rhoda in person. It's still unclear if Tedd's ever actually been introduced to Rhoda.

Good point, however even if she actually wasn't there yet, just the possibility would probably be enough for Edward to make the background check.

Alternatively, she might've been there when Tedd was somewhere else, EXACTLY because otherwise he would need to be careful with experimenting. Assuming Tedd is ever outside his home without Grace being out as well. I mean, Grace has several reasons to be going out, Tedd seem to be mostly going to school, with Grace or to the comic shop Grace is working in ...

2 hours ago, Scotty said:
6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

After Edward berating Grace for loose lips, she MIGHT at least consider it would be good idea to tell Edward about her suspicion before inviting them.

There's that, but she did seem pretty eager to talk to Rhoda despite Edward's berating.

Still. After that berating, she will be more careful. Or she will wait with it until the effect of berating would weaken. Inviting them to party is exact opposite to being more careful and doing it while having the berating fresh in mind - and with knowing that EDWARD would have it fresh in mind - seems unlikely.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

I think that Elliot didn't tell him anything not related to flying even if he knew it. Need to know, not his secret to tell etc. You have point however that quite a lot of things ARE related to his flying ... Elliot might've been vague about who is Magus but he could also told him everything about him.

That's the thing, Greg knows about Ellen being Elliot's duplicate from touching the dewitchery diamond, Greg is also aware of alternate universes, Beta Tedd and Lord Tedd. It wouldn't be a big deal for Elliot to be like "You remember how we all thought it was Tedd's fault Ellen was created? Turns out he was being manipulated by another universe version of me as part of a plan to get free of a limbo state someone had wrongfully stuck them in." Also it does seem like Ellen filled in Charlotte about Magus, I dunno if she went into all the details of her creation though but considering what she had said, I wouldn't be surprised if she's like "screw secrecy".

Just now, hkmaly said:

Still. After that berating, she will be more careful. Or she will wait with it until the effect of berating would weaken. Inviting them to party is exact opposite to being more careful and doing it while having the berating fresh in mind - and with knowing that EDWARD would have it fresh in mind - seems unlikely.

I didn't mean she would ignore Edward and invite them to the party, I was saying she'd ignore Edward and go talk to them about magic. Inviting them to parties would come at some point after that.

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11 hours ago, Scotty said:
16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I think that Elliot didn't tell him anything not related to flying even if he knew it. Need to know, not his secret to tell etc. You have point however that quite a lot of things ARE related to his flying ... Elliot might've been vague about who is Magus but he could also told him everything about him.

That's the thing, Greg knows about Ellen being Elliot's duplicate from touching the dewitchery diamond, Greg is also aware of alternate universes, Beta Tedd and Lord Tedd. It wouldn't be a big deal for Elliot to be like "You remember how we all thought it was Tedd's fault Ellen was created? Turns out he was being manipulated by another universe version of me as part of a plan to get free of a limbo state someone had wrongfully stuck them in." Also it does seem like Ellen filled in Charlotte about Magus, I dunno if she went into all the details of her creation though but considering what she had said, I wouldn't be surprised if she's like "screw secrecy".

Wouldn't "all details of her creation" involve "and BTW, not only spooky stuff is real, there are also actual aliens on Earth"? I seriously hope she still has at least some sense when talking to someone who manages internet forum ...

11 hours ago, Scotty said:
16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Still. After that berating, she will be more careful. Or she will wait with it until the effect of berating would weaken. Inviting them to party is exact opposite to being more careful and doing it while having the berating fresh in mind - and with knowing that EDWARD would have it fresh in mind - seems unlikely.

I didn't mean she would ignore Edward and invite them to the party, I was saying she'd ignore Edward and go talk to them about magic. Inviting them to parties would come at some point after that.

Maybe next party. I don't think there is enough time before this party for her to invite them carefully.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

Wouldn't "all details of her creation" involve "and BTW, not only spooky stuff is real, there are also actual aliens on Earth"? I seriously hope she still has at least some sense when talking to someone who manages internet forum ...

Ashley was told about the TFG without being told aliens exist. Ellen could tell Charlotte about the TFG being an instrument of her creation without revealing who originally built it.

Mind you I don't really expect Grace's heritage being kept secret from her friends that aren't yet in the circle (like Rhoda) so Charlotte may yet learn about aliens, probably around the time Pyro-Uryuom becomes relevant again.

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3 hours ago, Scotty said:
4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Wouldn't "all details of her creation" involve "and BTW, not only spooky stuff is real, there are also actual aliens on Earth"? I seriously hope she still has at least some sense when talking to someone who manages internet forum ...

Ashley was told about the TFG without being told aliens exist. Ellen could tell Charlotte about the TFG being an instrument of her creation without revealing who originally built it.

Sure, but technically that would be skipping some details. And, if she's not telling everything anyway, she might've skipped even more.

Well, until this becomes plot point (like Ellen being also berated for loose lips) we won't know for sure.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

Mind you I don't really expect Grace's heritage being kept secret from her friends that aren't yet in the circle (like Rhoda) so Charlotte may yet learn about aliens, probably around the time Pyro-Uryuom becomes relevant again.

Depends.

I think the original circle of eight will eventually be widened and all information shared between them. Presumably after Edward finishes background checks on them. Question is if Charlotte will be included in that widen circle ... Rhoda likely will be.

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