• Announcements

    • Robin

      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
detrius

Story Wednesday, July 3rd, 2019

Recommended Posts

39 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:
On 7/6/2019 at 0:42 AM, hkmaly said:

Like, I agree he's not portrayed as naive (that was exaggeration on my part) but he is portrayed as someone who would not agree with US doing such research. Other players, sure. ... well, maybe he knows enough to be effective in his work but not so much he wouldn't believe it's purely defensive research.

It seems to me that Mr. Verres would be the sort to be uncomfortable with the idea of WMDs (magical or otherwise), and object to their use if he were in a position to do so, but not let those feelings get in the way of working for a government he knows has them. So idealism limited by practicality.

Hmmm, yes. He will object but not rage-quit over that or something.

And maybe they told him that him doing his work well decreases the likehood those weapons will be used, that could motivate him.

It's also good point that magical WMD may be more effective but probably not more horrifying than nuclear weapons.

(And, maybe one of those cases when he prevented apocalypse scenario WAS about WMDs.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I want to see Dr. Strangelove with magical weapons edited in.

Why?
Similarly to the Hitler "Downfall" meme, it can be done with just few edits of audio.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Why?

"Why" indeed. That was a totally unexpected question, but applies to everything we do. And on one hand, if we answer it for every major effort, we would have the means to manage our time well, yet I suspect it would rob life of much joy as it sucks the spontaneity out of it. 

It really is a good question. Toddlers ask it all the time, because they want to learn (or are being difficult, or both), and parents hate it because the don't want to deal with it (they should probably be viewing it as an opportunity to teach).

Heh, you are reminding me that I got a reputation for asking this, in the form of "What is the impact if we don't?", when stupid $#!+ came down at one of my former jobs.

I thought about "Why", and here's what I came up with:

First, we're in a forum that is devoted to discussing fictional events that take place in another universe, and others beyond that one. In the comic and on this forum, we make note of and discuss the motivations of fictional characters. We sniff at the rabbit trails, run down some of them, and chase the squirrels. Wanting to see Dr. Strangelove edited with magic WMDs is just another rabbit trail, another interesting smell to roll in.

You might ask (or maybe you did), "Why are we wasting our time in this forum?" I can answer that for myself, I was drawn back trying to make sense of the latest story line, but in general, I would say, "It's not a waste, it fills a social need."

So, we've slipped into a topic that has allusions to the real world issue, the threat of annihilating ourselves, that's been hanging over us for our lifetimes. It's a big part of our lives, and while I suppose we're all numb from the constant enormity of the weight of it, it is worth reflecting on from time to time, lest we grow callous enough to consider it. Dr. Strangelove perfectly highlights the absurdity of the situation. There is no movie, no other media event, that does this more spot on. For the mere investment of two hours, you, too, can live the rest of your life with a subtle undercurrent of sheer terror of our mutual folly, and have fun getting there. 

Why Dr. Strangelove? Contrast it with a very similar movie, same plot, also excellent cast, Fail Safe, which came out around the same time. By cushioning the message in dark humor, Dr. Strangelove has had far more impact.

Quote

President Muffley: General Turgidson! When you instituted the human reliability tests, you assured me there was no possibility of such a thing ever occurring!

General Turgidson: Well, I, uh, don't think it's quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up, sir.

"Is the scenario realistic? Why should I care?" It's all too real. Both sides have had system failures and false alarms. Not often, but it only takes once. Now, post Cold War, we appear to be a bit less trigger happy, but there are a few more players, some with less apparent restraint.

 

Quote

 

President Muffley: General Turgidson, I find this very difficult to understand. I was under the impression that I was the only one in authority to order the use of nuclear weapons.

General Turgidson: That's right sir. You are the only person authorized to do so. And although I hate to judge before all the facts are in, it's beginning to look like General Ripper exceeded his authority.

 

I dunno. This rabbit trail makes sense to me.

 

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Similarly to the Hitler "Downfall" meme, it can be done with just few edits of audio.

If you do it, post a link.

I was thinking with some visual editing as well. Slim Pickens would be riding something other than a bomb. Maybe a dragon? Maybe a bomb with magic graffiti? "Spellboy was here"?
 

Quote

Major T. J. "King" Kong: Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 07/07/2019 at 0:42 PM, Darth Fluffy said:

"Why" indeed. That was a totally unexpected question

Not as unexpected as your answer.

On 07/07/2019 at 0:42 PM, Darth Fluffy said:

Why Dr. Strangelove? Contrast it with a very similar movie, same plot, also excellent cast, Fail Safe, which came out around the same time. By cushioning the message in dark humor, Dr. Strangelove has had far more impact.

I agree with Dr. Strangelove being better movie than Fail Safe.

However, my comment (made more specific by next line) alluded to the fact that Dr. Strangelove didn't really used any specific property of nuclear weapons, would work with basically ANY weapon of mass destruction and it only shown the destruction itself as lot of explosions ... therefore, those weapons could be turned into magical bombs with simple audio change.

... actually, the idea of a bomb is so basic you can implement it with ANYTHING, from rock to nuclear weapons ... to rock again, but this time bigger and faster (orbital bombardment). So, magical bombs makes lot of sense.

On 07/07/2019 at 0:42 PM, Darth Fluffy said:

I was thinking with some visual editing as well. Slim Pickens would be riding something other than a bomb. Maybe a dragon? Maybe a bomb with magic graffiti? "Spellboy was here"?

Bomb with a pentagram. Wait, it's totally possible there already was pentagram on the bomb :)

Dragon is not weapon of mass destruction. Sure, it can destroy lot of things, but not at once. Dragon is equivalent of plane - fighter or bomber, or combined.

Bigger difference could be in that doomsday machine. THAT can be something really inventive. Except it was never shown, just talked about.

There is a legend about magic sword which, unlike most magic sword, is real weapon of mass destruction: you don't need to slash with it, you just order who's head should go off ... and you can be pretty vague. Say, "all enemies of <my country>, off with their heads!"  ... that could easily kill more people than nuclear weapon. (Also, it would probably include quite a lot of said country politicians ...)

However, that wouldn't work in Dr. Strangelove, as it's human-operated, not automatic. Also, no underground mine would save you from it.

Hmmmm ... of course, freeing some strong vampire, of the infectious kind, could totally work as WMD.

"If nuclear weapon explodes over SSSR, Dracula will be released into major city. He transforms it into vampires in few hours and there is no way to stop those several millions of vampires - " ... wait. It is. Nuclear weapons are actually quite good countermeasure against vampires.

...

...

... anyway, back to topic. The point is, we can get much better movie about magical weapons if the story would be different than Dr. Strangelove.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Not as unexpected as your answer.

As my answer depended on the question being asked, I cannot logically disagree with that.

 

6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

... actually, the idea of a bomb is so basic you can implement it with ANYTHING, from rock to nuclear weapons ... to rock again, but this time bigger and faster (orbital bombardment). So, magical bombs makes lot of sense.

Well yeah, if you have the energy and platform to hurl rocks from space, that's a game changer.

 

6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

However, my comment (made more specific by next line) alluded to the fact that Dr. Strangelove didn't really used any specific property of nuclear weapons, would work with basically ANY weapon of mass destruction and it only shown the destruction itself as lot of explosions ...

The vulnerability of the B-52 was key to the story. You don't get that with rocks from space.

Biological and toxic weapons would be more difficult to detect, different story, really. This really required a big boom from a vulnerable craft.

Magic could go either way, I suppose.

 

6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Dragon is not weapon of mass destruction. Sure, it can destroy lot of things, but not at once. Dragon is equivalent of plane - fighter or bomber, or combined.

Sshh, the dragon might hear you. You don't want him trying to prove the point.

 

6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Nuclear weapons are actually quite good countermeasure against vampires.

They would need a really high SPF. (You can't read it in the picture, but the bottle of sunscreen in the box art for Nuclear War is SPF-5000 ).

(Why can't they just do that all the time?)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Not as unexpected as your answer.

As my answer depended on the question being asked, I cannot logically disagree with that.

I meant it was unexpectedly verbose.

11 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... actually, the idea of a bomb is so basic you can implement it with ANYTHING, from rock to nuclear weapons ... to rock again, but this time bigger and faster (orbital bombardment). So, magical bombs makes lot of sense.

Well yeah, if you have the energy and platform to hurl rocks from space, that's a game changer.

For start, you don't need to hurl them. Earth hitting them with orbital speed is enough. But, yes, hurling is more effective. Remember that it you throw a bomb fast enough, any payload, including antimatter, is insignificant to the kinetic energy.

11 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
12 hours ago, hkmaly said:

However, my comment (made more specific by next line) alluded to the fact that Dr. Strangelove didn't really used any specific property of nuclear weapons, would work with basically ANY weapon of mass destruction and it only shown the destruction itself as lot of explosions ...

The vulnerability of the B-52 was key to the story. You don't get that with rocks from space.

Biological and toxic weapons would be more difficult to detect, different story, really. This really required a big boom from a vulnerable craft.

Magic could go either way, I suppose.

Biological and toxic weapons would still work if they would be dropped from that B-52. Which is usual method of deployment. You need very advanced biotechnology OR magic before your preferred method of deploying biological weapons would became "just infect some tourists, OUR people won't die from it" ...

11 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
12 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Dragon is not weapon of mass destruction. Sure, it can destroy lot of things, but not at once. Dragon is equivalent of plane - fighter or bomber, or combined.

Sshh, the dragon might hear you. You don't want him trying to prove the point.

Dragons capable of reading internet are too busy with higher-priority targets to bother with this comment.

The rest of them probably eaten all salesman from ISPs brave enough to visit them, so they don't have the connection yet.

(Actually, with dragons mostly living in mountains, it's hard for them to get internet connection. Even cellphone coverage is often bad in mountains. On the other hand, most dragons would have enough money for own fiber optic cable if they really wanted.)

11 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
12 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Nuclear weapons are actually quite good countermeasure against vampires.

They would need a really high SPF. (You can't read it in the picture, but the bottle of sunscreen in the box art for Nuclear War is SPF-5000 ).

Waaaaait ... while you can't really make a sunscreen with so high SPF using chemistry alone, there are no such limits with magic. Giving Dracula magical high-SPF sunscreen MAY count as doomsday weapon.

11 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Why can't they just do that all the time?

Using nuclear weapons against vampires? Collateral damage, I suppose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I meant it was unexpectedly verbose.

It was an unexpected question, so I reflected, and thought about it in depth.

 

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

For start, you don't need to hurl them. Earth hitting them with orbital speed is enough. But, yes, hurling is more effective. Remember that it you throw a bomb fast enough, any payload, including antimatter, is insignificant to the kinetic energy.

The problem with orbital speed is that they orbit. You need to change that speed, which means, launch them. Time considerations and aiming requirements say that while you could perhaps launch a projectile from orbit with a parachute, it would take too long, and you'd best just chuck that sucker.

 

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Biological and toxic weapons would still work if they would be dropped from that B-52. Which is usual method of deployment. You need very advanced biotechnology OR magic before your preferred method of deploying biological weapons would became "just infect some tourists, OUR people won't die from it" ...

The Buff is a US only plane, pretty sure we don't sell them; granted, there are rough equivalents, like the Bear, and the technology is no longer beyond anyone.

I don't think the US is actively fielding bio nor chemical weapons today. I admit, I could be wrong.

The types of nukes we are talking about are sufficiently heavy that they require a large airframe. However, lighter options are used in many missles.

Bio and toxic weapons would not be heavy, if you are willing to use them, you want to use a lot of smaller amounts and disperse them. Typical delivery would be either via missles or covert operatives.

In a shooting war, restraint goes out the window, and bets are off. However, anyone that hasn't prepped is probably unable to play.

 

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Dragons capable of reading internet are too busy with higher-priority targets to bother with this comment.

The rest of them probably eaten all salesman from ISPs brave enough to visit them, so they don't have the connection yet.

... too busy answering forums to get anything done.

 

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

(Actually, with dragons mostly living in mountains, it's hard for them to get internet connection. Even cellphone coverage is often bad in mountains. On the other hand, most dragons would have enough money for own fiber optic cable if they really wanted.)

Where do you live? I want to avoid visiting. Do you have sirens, like Magus's universe?

 

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Waaaaait ... while you can't really make a sunscreen with so high SPF using chemistry alone, there are no such limits with magic. Giving Dracula magical high-SPF sunscreen MAY count as doomsday weapon.

Even on the box cover art, it was meant to be more humorous than instructive. There is a form of really high SPF sunscreen available, however, it's called "Indoors". For nuclear war, you may want to use something stronger.

 

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Using nuclear weapons against vampires? Collateral damage, I suppose.

Seems like overkill. I was referring to "Why don't vampires use the high SPF lotion from the box art to walk around in the daylight." But, yeah, indoors.

So, if they are underground, in the dark, how do they know to be dead during the day to rise at night? Isn't it all the same to them?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
23 hours ago, hkmaly said:

For start, you don't need to hurl them. Earth hitting them with orbital speed is enough. But, yes, hurling is more effective. Remember that it you throw a bomb fast enough, any payload, including antimatter, is insignificant to the kinetic energy.

The problem with orbital speed is that they orbit. You need to change that speed, which means, launch them. Time considerations and aiming requirements say that while you could perhaps launch a projectile from orbit with a parachute, it would take too long, and you'd best just chuck that sucker.

The thing is WHAT they orbit.

Earth is orbiting the Sun. Quite fast. However, something else can orbit the Sun in opposite direction or completely different trajectory.

For example, see any meteor. Those are hitting Earth quite fast, with most of that speed actually being Earth's orbital speed.

Of course, if you want to aim, you would need some course correction, but it doesn't need to be big if you make them in advance.

19 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

The Buff is a US only plane, pretty sure we don't sell them; granted, there are rough equivalents, like the Bear, and the technology is no longer beyond anyone.

I meant that "usual method" is dropping them from bomber, not necessary specifically B-52.

19 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

The types of nukes we are talking about are sufficiently heavy that they require a large airframe. However, lighter options are used in many missles.

Bio and toxic weapons would not be heavy, if you are willing to use them, you want to use a lot of smaller amounts and disperse them. Typical delivery would be either via missles or covert operatives.

Good point ... bio and toxic weapons don't need that big bombers. I would still say that dropping them from bomber while flying over city would be quite effective - although not all at once and in bombs designed to disperse them in some attitude in air.

19 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

... too busy answering forums to get anything done.

I think they WOULD take some time to get some of those people from forums well done.

19 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
23 hours ago, hkmaly said:

(Actually, with dragons mostly living in mountains, it's hard for them to get internet connection. Even cellphone coverage is often bad in mountains. On the other hand, most dragons would have enough money for own fiber optic cable if they really wanted.)

Where do you live? I want to avoid visiting. Do you have sirens, like Magus's universe?

We don't have sirens and I'm not aware of any dragons living in our mountains (although they may be hiding). However, we DO have bad cellphone coverage and general problems with internet connection in mountains.

The note about dragons mostly living in mountains and having enough money was not from my personal experience, I must admit.

19 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
23 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Using nuclear weapons against vampires? Collateral damage, I suppose.

Seems like overkill.

On single vampire, yes. For groups, however ...

19 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I was referring to "Why don't vampires use the high SPF lotion from the box art to walk around in the daylight."

That's obvious. They don't have the technology to develop it and wasn't able to find any in shops.

... although, I actually already saw (in TV, not personally) some vampire using lot of SPF to talk with Blade in daylight.

19 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

So, if they are underground, in the dark, how do they know to be dead during the day to rise at night? Isn't it all the same to them?

Biological clocks?

Note that vampires generally need to go outside at night to get something to eat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

The thing is WHAT they orbit.

Earth is orbiting the Sun. Quite fast. However, something else can orbit the Sun in opposite direction or completely different trajectory.

For example, see any meteor. Those are hitting Earth quite fast, with most of that speed actually being Earth's orbital speed.

Of course, if you want to aim, you would need some course correction, but it doesn't need to be big if you make them in advance.

All true, but "Rods from God" AKA Project Thor is Earth orbital kinetic weapons.

I think you could do wonders by moving a smallish asteroid into earth orbit, and mine it for material for iron rods, which while less effective than tungsten has the advantage of already being in space, and using a rail gun to launch them. You could move the asteroid with sails, but it would take a long time. Maybe park the thing at one of the Ls. Bwa, ha, ha ,ha; I know how I'm going to spend my retirement years.

 

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

We don't have sirens and I'm not aware of any dragons living in our mountains (although they may be hiding). However, we DO have bad cellphone coverage and general problems with internet connection in mountains.

Ah, I suppose that accounts for the lack of dragons. Difficult to attract them when you have no coverage.

 

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

On single vampire, yes. For groups, however ...

Bringing new meaning to the term "Flash mob".

 

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Note that vampires generally need to go outside at night to get something to eat.

Shout out to Girl Scout Cookies: "I ordered a children's meal. There's no children in it!"

"No, I don't want a pizza. Just a delivery."

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
On 07/10/2019 at 2:05 PM, hkmaly said:

The thing is WHAT they orbit.

Earth is orbiting the Sun. Quite fast. However, something else can orbit the Sun in opposite direction or completely different trajectory.

For example, see any meteor. Those are hitting Earth quite fast, with most of that speed actually being Earth's orbital speed.

Of course, if you want to aim, you would need some course correction, but it doesn't need to be big if you make them in advance.

All true, but "Rods from God" AKA Project Thor is Earth orbital kinetic weapons.

True, and are supposed to be fired down.

23 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I think you could do wonders by moving a smallish asteroid into earth orbit, and mine it for material for iron rods, which while less effective than tungsten has the advantage of already being in space, and using a rail gun to launch them. You could move the asteroid with sails, but it would take a long time. Maybe park the thing at one of the Ls. Bwa, ha, ha ,ha; I know how I'm going to spend my retirement years.

While true, moving that asteroid to hit Earth directly would cause bigger damage. So depends what are you aiming for. Single big target or multiple smaller ones?

23 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

"No, I don't want a pizza. Just a delivery."

That reminds me we still don't know how this ended. Although considering Magus is originally girl, he may not like girls ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, hkmaly said:

While true, moving that asteroid to hit Earth directly would cause bigger damage. So depends what are you aiming for. Single big target or multiple smaller ones?

You don't use even a moderate sized asteroid as a projectile if you plan on using the planet afterward. The asteroid is your launch platform and provides material for projectiles. I think an iron one would work better, but in a pinch, rocks could do the job.

 

9 hours ago, hkmaly said:

That reminds me we still don't know how this ended. Although considering Magus is originally girl, he may not like girls ...

She seems more interested in him than he does in her. Could be for a number of reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

You don't use even a moderate sized asteroid as a projectile if you plan on using the planet afterward.

That depends on what you want to use it for. If you want any of the previously-dominant species or their livestock to survive in order to serve your interests, then you definitely don't want a giant impact. If you don't want anything from the existing biosphere (ESPECIALLY if you have a biochemistry that can not coexist in the same environment with them), then bombs away!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ijuin said:

That depends on what you want to use it for. If you want any of the previously-dominant species or their livestock to survive in order to serve your interests, then you definitely don't want a giant impact. If you don't want anything from the existing biosphere (ESPECIALLY if you have a biochemistry that can not coexist in the same environment with them), then bombs away!

Granted, if you want to terraform Venus, blowing off much of the atmosphere might be a good move, unless you had the means to bottle it, and use it elsewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
On 7/11/2019 at 4:05 PM, hkmaly said:

While true, moving that asteroid to hit Earth directly would cause bigger damage. So depends what are you aiming for. Single big target or multiple smaller ones?

You don't use even a moderate sized asteroid as a projectile if you plan on using the planet afterward.

That's a big IF.

16 hours ago, ijuin said:

Or if you absolutely hate the planet's residents and want to kill their entire biosphere dead.

When Ripley said "Nuke the entire site from orbit--it's the only way to be sure" she either didn't meant the word "nuke" literally or showed she's not weapon expert.

16 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
16 hours ago, ijuin said:

That depends on what you want to use it for. If you want any of the previously-dominant species or their livestock to survive in order to serve your interests, then you definitely don't want a giant impact. If you don't want anything from the existing biosphere (ESPECIALLY if you have a biochemistry that can not coexist in the same environment with them), then bombs away!

Granted, if you want to terraform Venus, blowing off much of the atmosphere might be a good move, unless you had the means to bottle it, and use it elsewhere.

Bottle it? You mean like using it to carbonate mineral water?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

That's a big IF.

If you mean science fiction tropes, yes. IRL, not so much.

 

11 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

When Ripley said "Nuke the entire site from orbit--it's the only way to be sure" she either didn't meant the word "nuke" literally or showed she's not weapon expert.

Actually, her statement means what it says on the tin, but she's not a weapons expert. She was brought along as an advisor because she had familiarity with the xenomorphs, at least more so than anyone else available, key qualification, still living, and had to be shown how to use Hick's good friend.

 

11 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Bottle it? You mean like using it to carbonate mineral water?

Any sense of scavenging the atmosphere into storage for potential reuse later.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:
29 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

That's a big IF.

If you mean science fiction tropes, yes. IRL, not so much.

I think there was several people who though nuclear weapon tests would ignite whole atmosphere and still tried.

And there are definitely people who, faced with defeat of their side, would opt for complete destruction of enemy even knowing they wouldn't survive either.

Also, we talked about aliens on lunar orbit. THEY might not want to use the planet.

10 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:
33 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

When Ripley said "Nuke the entire site from orbit--it's the only way to be sure" she either didn't meant the word "nuke" literally or showed she's not weapon expert.

Actually, her statement means what it says on the tin, but she's not a weapons expert.

... so option B is confirmed then. Ok.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:
17 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Granted, if you want to terraform Venus, blowing off much of the atmosphere might be a good move, unless you had the means to bottle it, and use it elsewhere.

Bottle it? You mean like using it to carbonate mineral water?

Or, using some of it to help terraform Mars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I think there was several people who though nuclear weapon tests would ignite whole atmosphere and still tried.

I've heard the same thing, and similar things about other things we've tried; the Large Hadron Collider comes to mind.

In reality, not having nuclear capability in a nuclear capable environment is hazardous, surely Germany would have used them if it had them at the time, and a reasonable person with knowledge of the field might have accepted the risk. I can't say that the Large Hadron Collider is as pressing a need, but it hasn't killed us yet.

Maybe this has something to do with why SETI keeps coming up empty. Maybe as soon as a civilization figures out how to synthesize a black hole, it vanishes.

 

19 hours ago, hkmaly said:

And there are definitely people who, faced with defeat of their side, would opt for complete destruction of enemy even knowing they wouldn't survive either.

Back to Dr. Strangelove, are we? Or, to put it another way, Liz has a point ...

 

19 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Also, we talked about aliens on lunar orbit. THEY might not want to use the planet.

 

Hell of a long drive to wipe out our planet. I hope they have a damn good reason.

 

19 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... so option B is confirmed then. Ok.

She meant "nuke" as in "use a nuke to wipe out everything in the area". I would chalk that up to common knowledge of what  a nuke can do, not to expertise. She is not a weapons expert, is not there to be one, would probably not know how to arm the nuke herself (if we go by today's standards, it would not be trivial, no reason to think that's changed in the future), would probably not know how to aim nor launch it, even kind of screwed up driving the assault vehicle; got the remainder out safely, but burned it out. She is acting in her role as an advisor, with knowledge of the xenomorphs, and correctly assesses they are too dangerous to fight. So while your statement B is a true statement, it is a red herring,her lack of expertise has nothing to do with she actually meant "use a nuke". She expressed her opinion as an advisor, and trusted the marines to follow through. They had every intention of doing that at that point in the film.

 

Edited by Darth Fluffy
Typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/12/2019 at 3:59 AM, ijuin said:

Or if you absolutely hate the planet's residents and want to kill their entire biosphere dead.

how to conquer earth: step one, De-orbit the moon. Step two, laugh your ass off at the advisor who keeps talking about survivors and resistance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/13/2019 at 2:15 AM, Don Edwards said:

Or, using some of it to help terraform Mars.

... what has this to do with bottles?

On 7/13/2019 at 2:32 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

other things we've tried; the Large Hadron Collider comes to mind.

I don't think anyone who actually UNDERSTANDS the physics thinks LHC is dangerous.

On 7/13/2019 at 2:32 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

Maybe this has something to do with why SETI keeps coming up empty. Maybe as soon as a civilization figures out how to synthesize a black hole, it vanishes.

Or maybe most civilizations came to conclusion that experiments with creating a black hole on their home planet are safer than broadcasting their presence to universe.

On 7/13/2019 at 2:32 AM, Darth Fluffy said:
On 7/13/2019 at 1:39 AM, hkmaly said:

Also, we talked about aliens on lunar orbit. THEY might not want to use the planet.

Hell of a long drive to wipe out our planet. I hope they have a damn good reason.

Sure. They watched our TV.

Note that it's long drive either way ; I mean, conquering planet with intelligent life doesn't seem to be worth the effort for any rational reason, leaving just less rational reasons like preferring slaves to machines. It's much simpler to mine stuff on asteroids, and if you want habitable planet, it's better to choose one which is not already damaged even BEFORE you start the war to conquer it.

On 7/13/2019 at 2:32 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

So while your statement B is a true statement, it is a red herring,her lack of expertise has nothing to do with she actually meant "use a nuke". She expressed her opinion as an advisor, and trusted the marines to follow through. They had every intention of doing that at that point in the film.

... hmmm ... yeah, she might know that they DO have a nuke, unlike any others more advanced anti-planetary weapons.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I don't think anyone who actually UNDERSTANDS the physics thinks LHC is dangerous.

 

I kind of agree with you about your specific point, but there is an undercurrent of "We'd never do anything we knew was dangerous", and in a broader sense our track record says that we will do quite a bit without fully understanding what we're doing, particularly if the effects are long term and don't kill us right out immediately. Technically, you'd still be correct, we didn't know it was dangerous. Check out early use of x-ray devices (may need to find "fluoroscope"), early work in chemistry with radioactive elements, "Radium Girls" painting numbers on clocks with radium paint, and health effects on troops handling chemical weapons. LHC has never personally bothered me, and people do get worked up over nonsense, but on the other hand, our own ignorance combined with our inherent hubris tends to be deadly.

 

11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Sure. They watched our TV.

"You mean the historical documents?" ...

"Surely, you don't believe Gilligan's Island is a ..."

"Those poor people!"

   .

   .

   .

"... and don't call me Shirley!"

 

Edited by Darth Fluffy
Message claims this post breaking forum, fixing if I can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now