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      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
Tom Sewell

Story Monday, July 8, 2019

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:

I'm not saying that considering her feelings is a bad thing, in moderation, but constantly second guessing how she would feel about something seems a lot worse than if he were to just do it and find out.

I did not get the impression he was overthinking so much as apathetic, "I can get a burger anywhere". I can relate to that. I am far less picky about where we eat lunch that my coworkers are. I can find something I'll like on anyone's menu. I'll usually state a general preference, or a negative, "I had Mexican yesterday", maybe lay out three different alternatives, mention time constraints, "I have a meeting at 1:00", then go along with the group consensus.

Maybe oddly, a burger is something I'll tend to avoid. I used to love them, but they don't love me back.

 

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40 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Tedd is quickly zipping up his shirt in panel 1, meaning that shirt was unzipped and possibly not being worn prior to that page, especially considering he had just come down from his room, which Grace was in, and apparently Sarah rang the doorbell more than once like it took a bit to get presentable.

Huh, yeah, you're right. Still not conclusive that they weren't just cuddling. I'll grant that for most couples, it would be a strong indication. I don't see them fitting the mold.

Grace isn't phased when Tedd is female. For everyone else, the sex changing is a big deal, at least initially. She also isn't aware of how her male form affects him, at first, which kind of says that the sexual aspect did not cross her mind.

Besides, if squirrel form Grace decided to bury his nuts for the winter, he'd be in a world of hurt.

 

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Tedd is quickly zipping up his shirt in panel 1, meaning that shirt was unzipped and possibly not being worn prior to that page, especially considering he had just come down from his room, which Grace was in, and apparently Sarah rang the doorbell more than once like it took a bit to get presentable.

Counterpoint.

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20 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I really don't get why she's "Ugly cousin" to Tedd. Indications are, she was sympathetic when they were kids.

I think it comes from Tedd knowing that Nanase is attractive, but not wanting to acknowledge it for fear that people might assume he had the hots for his own cousin. I know there have been reader theories in that regard, but personally I think he's overemphasizing it which gives that impression. Actually, it wouldn't be surprising if Tedd wished he was like Nanase including being as attractive as her.

2 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I did not get the impression he was overthinking so much as apathetic, "I can get a burger anywhere". I can relate to that. I am far less picky about where we eat lunch that my coworkers are. I can find something I'll like on anyone's menu. I'll usually state a general preference, or a negative, "I had Mexican yesterday", maybe lay out three different alternatives, mention time constraints, "I have a meeting at 1:00", then go along with the group consensus.

Maybe oddly, a burger is something I'll tend to avoid. I used to love them, but they don't love me back.

 

We have Elliot admitting that if it was left to him to decide, they'd only eat at 3 places, so he's certainly self conscious about what decisions he could make, and he feels that he might come across as boring if left to decide things, which his deferring the decisions to Sarah ironically makes him appear boring anyway which certainly fuels the whole "stick in the mud" personality that Ellen described him as. Elliot was probably thinking "I can't make everything about me." but wound up never thinking about himself in the equation until recently.

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13 minutes ago, Scotty said:
15 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:
Quote

Granted, the fact that Grace wanted to give the clothes back doesn't necessarily prove anything, but HUGS!

Panel 3 shows Sarah drawing the boinking conclusion, then panel 4 and beyond subverts it.

 

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Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

Panel 3 shows Sarah drawing the boinking conclusion, then panel 4 and beyond subverts it.

 

Yeah, but Grace doesn't know that Sarah's thinking that's the reason she's still naked, and Grace could just be talking about why she's still naked at that moment, like after Tedd left the room, she'd start folding her clothes and writing the note.

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1 minute ago, Scotty said:

Yeah, but Grace doesn't know that Sarah's thinking that's the reason she's still naked, and Grace could just be talking about why she's still naked at that moment, like after Tedd left the room, she'd start folding her clothes and writing the note.

MythBusters: Plausible

 

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42 minutes ago, Scotty said:

We have Elliot admitting that if it was left to him to decide, they'd only eat at 3 places, so he's certainly self conscious about what decisions he could make, and he feels that he might come across as boring if left to decide things, which his deferring the decisions to Sarah ironically makes him appear boring anyway which certainly fuels the whole "stick in the mud" personality that Ellen described him as. Elliot was probably thinking "I can't make everything about me." but wound up never thinking about himself in the equation until recently.

Feh, like Ellen would know. She's lived in another universe, everyone is a relative stick in the mud compared to her. Seriously, though, Elliot has befriended people on his own, mostly while standing up for them. Ellen just has a more selfish approach to the same thing. It's not so much "wrong" as she knows herself better. She was dysfunctional to the point of being mentally ill when she was first created. "Stick in the mud" also says "stable".

Back to Elliot and Sarah have different goals in life, and don't really know each other at some level. Sarah may think "stick in the mud", and I'm pretty sure she's going to come across as "flighty" to some folks. Every card's a winner, and every card's a looser. (Yes, I know the actual lyrics are "Every hand's a winner, and every hand's a looser", but that's simply not true; it is true for the cards themselves.)

I went to one high school reunion, and was amazed how many of my classmates never left our town, or "Yeah, I left, I live thirty miles away now."

 

 

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2 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I really don't get why she's "Ugly cousin" to Tedd. Indications are, she was sympathetic when they were kids.

Oh, that's easy. A girl his age who's a close relative (therefore off limits), a good friend, and really hot. At an age when hormones are beating him to a bloody pulp anyway. He had to build defenses and push her away, quick. (Which is also why Edward hadn't seen her for long enough that he wasn't sure he recognized her.)

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2 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

(Which is also why Edward hadn't seen her for long enough that he wasn't sure he recognized her.)

I thought Nanase had been avoiding the Verres house mostly as a mental health self defense maneuver.

 

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12 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

Oh, that's easy. A girl his age who's a close relative (therefore off limits), a good friend, and really hot. At an age when hormones are beating him to a bloody pulp anyway. He had to build defenses and push her away, quick. (Which is also why Edward hadn't seen her for long enough that he wasn't sure he recognized her.)

Not exactly relevant, because yeah, it seems you're right, "cousin" being a "close relative (therefore off limits)" is a cultural thing, and is not universally frowned upon; some cultures prefer it. The genetic hazard is about double two strangers, still low numbers, around two and four per cent respectively, no where near like two sibs. But repeated generational cousin marriage is another thing, check European royalty.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Ellen just has a more selfish approach to the same thing.

I think Ellen would still jump to a stranger's aid and befriend them, and actually, she befriended Susan pretty quickly despite Elliot's most recent memory (at the time) being not too favorable. And as Dan mentions in the commentary of the first link, Elliot got to know Susan better after Ellen's creation so Ellen's just out of the blue asking Susan to join them for movies was non-Elliot of her, which I suppose was the whole point of asking Susan to join them, it was one of the first steps of differentiating herself from Elliot.

 

 

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16 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

He's also not generally bad about taking initiative, in spite of Sarah's experience; their relationship is a bit of an anomaly. He does have weak areas, like failing to keep up with his spell book. But sometimes he shows really good initiative, especially when he's being protective.

So, my impression is that at some level, he does not really know Sarah. Their discussion of travel highlighted very different goals; maybe they find each other unrelatable. Food choices much the same. His indecision around Sarah may be the tip of a deep iceberg.

I suspect a large part of Elliot's lack of initiative with Sarah was due to his subconsciously seeing her as a sister. I mean if he's not attracted to her romantically or sexually, he wouldn't really have much incentive to do anything romantic or sexual with her.

 

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21 hours ago, Scotty said:
22 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I really don't get why she's "Ugly cousin" to Tedd. Indications are, she was sympathetic when they were kids.

I think it comes from Tedd knowing that Nanase is attractive, but not wanting to acknowledge it for fear that people might assume he had the hots for his own cousin. I know there have been reader theories in that regard, but personally I think he's overemphasizing it which gives that impression. Actually, it wouldn't be surprising if Tedd wished he was like Nanase including being as attractive as her.

I actually think that Tedd DOES considers Nanase attractive and is trying to convince HIMSELF she's not.

However, note that she's looking like his mom.

19 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Oh, that's easy. A girl his age who's a close relative (therefore off limits), a good friend, and really hot. At an age when hormones are beating him to a bloody pulp anyway. He had to build defenses and push her away, quick. (Which is also why Edward hadn't seen her for long enough that he wasn't sure he recognized her.)

Yes exactly.

21 hours ago, Scotty said:

We have Elliot admitting that if it was left to him to decide, they'd only eat at 3 places

... probably the closest ones.

19 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I thought Nanase had been avoiding the Verres house mostly as a mental health self defense maneuver.

... could also be part of it. There could've been multiple reasons why they apparently didn't see each other for some time.

(I mean, besides Dan not thinking it through.)

20 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
21 hours ago, Scotty said:

We have Elliot admitting that if it was left to him to decide, they'd only eat at 3 places, so he's certainly self conscious about what decisions he could make, and he feels that he might come across as boring if left to decide things, which his deferring the decisions to Sarah ironically makes him appear boring anyway which certainly fuels the whole "stick in the mud" personality that Ellen described him as. Elliot was probably thinking "I can't make everything about me." but wound up never thinking about himself in the equation until recently.

Feh, like Ellen would know. She's lived in another universe, everyone is a relative stick in the mud compared to her. Seriously, though, Elliot has befriended people on his own, mostly while standing up for them. Ellen just has a more selfish approach to the same thing. It's not so much "wrong" as she knows herself better. She was dysfunctional to the point of being mentally ill when she was first created. "Stick in the mud" also says "stable".

Ellen also had Elliot's memories.

And note that she was actually quite bad at being "dysfunctional" even when she tried to be Elliot's evil twin. I wouldn't call her mentally ill, I would consider it temporary stress-induced condition. Like ... there is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, but also Acute Stress Disorder, and she didn't stayed crazy long enough for it to be PTSD.

(There is discussion about it on Grrl Power now ... well, the link is few days ago but it still continues)

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4 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

And note that she was actually quite bad at being "dysfunctional" even when she tried to be Elliot's evil twin. I wouldn't call her mentally ill, I would consider it temporary stress-induced condition. Like ... there is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, but also Acute Stress Disorder, and she didn't stayed crazy long enough for it to be PTSD.

(There is discussion about it on Grrl Power now ... well, the link is few days ago but it still continues)

You make a good point, she thought she was going to die soon.

I would take issue with, you don't have to be skilled at being crazy to be crazy.

 

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15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I actually think that Tedd DOES considers Nanase attractive and is trying to convince HIMSELF she's not.

However, note that she's looking like his mom.

There is the flashback montage where Tedd does look a lot like Nanase. I don't consider that to mean that Tedd's given into temptation though, and if Tedd is bothered by Nanase's appearance looking too much like she make herself look like her mom. And there's Edward to consider, since there's the theory that Edward's dislike of Tedd being female is because she looks too much like Noriko that way, Tedd should be aware of this possibility even if Edward doesn't outright say it.

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4 hours ago, Scotty said:

There is the flashback montage where Tedd does look a lot like Nanase. I don't consider that to mean that Tedd's given into temptation though, and if Tedd is bothered by Nanase's appearance looking too much like she make herself look like her mom.

Oh, good call.

 

4 hours ago, Scotty said:

And there's Edward to consider, since there's the theory that Edward's dislike of Tedd being female is because she looks too much like Noriko that way, Tedd should be aware of this possibility even if Edward doesn't outright say it.

That makes sense, too, that Edward is reacting to Noriko.

I don't see why Tedd or even Edward would be aware of this, though. It could be subconscious. If they are aware, they should have talked it out. Tedd has said that he believes that his dad is uncomfortable with his being female, and has never mentioned looking like his mom in this context.

It may be that Edward avoids vocalizing his concerns to Tedd, but that does not seem to be the case either. He is capable of talking at great length about what concerns him, we've seen this, nor does he hold back if he's aware of the situation.

If this is what's going on, they don't know it yet.

I think it's been foreshadowed that Noriko has a bigger role to play than she's been given thus far. Surely we will see more of Van.

 

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Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

I don't see why Tedd or even Edward would be aware of this, though. It could be subconscious. If they are aware, they should have talked it out. Tedd has said that he believes that his dad is uncomfortable with his being female, and has never mentioned looking like his mom in this context.

Edward could very well be aware, but isn't saying anything because he might be thinking Tedd isn't aware and that saying something might remind Tedd of the divorce cause a withdrawal, we know Edward's been keeping Noriko's whereabouts and career secret from Tedd believing it's for his own good, he could have gone all out and be avoiding any mention of Noriko including "you look like your mother".

Tedd though, we know has thought about his mom on at least 2 occasions, and he's acknowledged that he might have issues about it so I would expect that he's partially avoiding the subject with Edward because he doesn't want Edward to be reminded of her, I'm pretty sure there was a period shortly after the divorce where Tedd kept asking where his mom went and Edward kept making excuses for her not coming by even on Christmas, and it might have wore on both of them to the point where Edward just stopped talking about it thinking that Tedd might forget eventually, and Tedd stopped asking about her because he assumed it was hurting his dad. Even if that feeling became a subconscious one, I would still think he'd at least know what his mother looks like based on how he views Nanase's appearance and on the chance that even that's a subconscious feeling, I'd still expect Tedd to be like "I shouldn't use this form around dad."

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Edward could very well be aware, but isn't saying anything because he might be thinking Tedd isn't aware and that saying something might remind Tedd of the divorce cause a withdrawal, we know Edward's been keeping Noriko's whereabouts and career secret from Tedd believing it's for his own good, he could have gone all out and be avoiding any mention of Noriko including "you look like your mother".

Tedd though, we know has thought about his mom on at least 2 occasions, and he's acknowledged that he might have issues about it so I would expect that he's partially avoiding the subject with Edward because he doesn't want Edward to be reminded of her, I'm pretty sure there was a period shortly after the divorce where Tedd kept asking where his mom went and Edward kept making excuses for her not coming by even on Christmas, and it might have wore on both of them to the point where Edward just stopped talking about it thinking that Tedd might forget eventually, and Tedd stopped asking about her because he assumed it was hurting his dad. Even if that feeling became a subconscious one, I would still think he'd at least know what his mother looks like based on how he views Nanase's appearance and on the chance that even that's a subconscious feeling, I'd still expect Tedd to be like "I shouldn't use this form around dad."

That works, although at this point in Tedd's life, he seems capable of handling the information, and Edward is being overly protective.

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On 07/10/2019 at 2:31 PM, Darth Fluffy said:
On 07/10/2019 at 2:24 PM, hkmaly said:

And note that she was actually quite bad at being "dysfunctional" even when she tried to be Elliot's evil twin. I wouldn't call her mentally ill, I would consider it temporary stress-induced condition. Like ... there is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, but also Acute Stress Disorder, and she didn't stayed crazy long enough for it to be PTSD.

(There is discussion about it on Grrl Power now ... well, the link is few days ago but it still continues)

You make a good point, she thought she was going to die soon.

I would take issue with, you don't have to be skilled at being crazy to be crazy.

You don't need experience to be crazy, but you can still show different levels of craziness. Not counting the first few moments, she didn't show any visible craziness at all, actually - it looked like she's trying to be evil twin quite deliberately.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

There is the flashback montage where Tedd does look a lot like Nanase. I don't consider that to mean that Tedd's given into temptation though, and if Tedd is bothered by Nanase's appearance looking too much like she make herself look like her mom.

Tedd doesn't need transformations to look similar to Nanase, they just naturally look like cousins, which they are.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:
5 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I don't see why Tedd or even Edward would be aware of this, though. It could be subconscious. If they are aware, they should have talked it out. Tedd has said that he believes that his dad is uncomfortable with his being female, and has never mentioned looking like his mom in this context.

Edward could very well be aware, but isn't saying anything because he might be thinking Tedd isn't aware and that saying something might remind Tedd of the divorce cause a withdrawal, we know Edward's been keeping Noriko's whereabouts and career secret from Tedd believing it's for his own good, he could have gone all out and be avoiding any mention of Noriko including "you look like your mother".

Tedd though, we know has thought about his mom on at least 2 occasions, and he's acknowledged that he might have issues about it so I would expect that he's partially avoiding the subject with Edward because he doesn't want Edward to be reminded of her, I'm pretty sure there was a period shortly after the divorce where Tedd kept asking where his mom went and Edward kept making excuses for her not coming by even on Christmas, and it might have wore on both of them to the point where Edward just stopped talking about it thinking that Tedd might forget eventually, and Tedd stopped asking about her because he assumed it was hurting his dad. Even if that feeling became a subconscious one, I would still think he'd at least know what his mother looks like based on how he views Nanase's appearance and on the chance that even that's a subconscious feeling, I'd still expect Tedd to be like "I shouldn't use this form around dad."

They may be aware and STILL have subconscious issues. Like, just because Edward knows that Tedd reminded him Noriko at some cases doesn't mean he realizes it's main reason why he doesn't like Tedd being female.

Similarly, they might be aware that it's not good topic to talk about with the other one and STILL have own difficulties with it.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

That works, although at this point in Tedd's life, he seems capable of handling the information, and Edward is being overly protective.

At THIS point, yes ... like, he handled it quite well when talking with Pandora, and I would assume this bomb is defused now. However, this is quite recent, and there is this bit about angst ... so Tedd being capable of handling talking about Noriko might be VERY recent and only thanks to events Edward doesn't really know about (well ... he technically know Tedd is seer, but may not realize how significant it is).

We have no idea how well he would handle it BEFORE realizing he's seer. I mean before this moment, not when he found out how it's called.

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7 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Tedd doesn't need transformations to look similar to Nanase, they just naturally look like cousins, which they are.

Except he was apparently bothered by Sarah's observation of how much of resemblance there was.

8 hours ago, hkmaly said:

At THIS point, yes ... like, he handled it quite well when talking with Pandora, and I would assume this bomb is defused now. However, this is quite recent, and there is this bit about angst ... so Tedd being capable of handling talking about Noriko might be VERY recent and only thanks to events Edward doesn't really know about (well ... he technically know Tedd is seer, but may not realize how significant it is).

I think Tedd's probably at the point where he's able to forgive Noriko for leaving, unless of course, there was more to it than simply being frustrated over Tedd not showing any magic potential, and it's possible she doesn't give a rat's ass about Tedd anymore if Van's potential was detected, so Tedd wouldn't have to forgive her then. I am curious about whether Tedd mentioned that he knows his mom's a wizard now and all that stuff when he told his dad about being a Seer and such, I also wonder if Edward knows that Noriko had another child named Van and how he'd react if Tedd mentioned there being a kid named Van at the meeting with the WoM.

 

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9 hours ago, hkmaly said:
On 7/10/2019 at 8:31 AM, Darth Fluffy said:
On 7/10/2019 at 8:24 AM, hkmaly said:

And note that she was actually quite bad at being "dysfunctional" even when she tried to be Elliot's evil twin. I wouldn't call her mentally ill, I would consider it temporary stress-induced condition. Like ... there is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, but also Acute Stress Disorder, and she didn't stayed crazy long enough for it to be PTSD.

(There is discussion about it on Grrl Power now ... well, the link is few days ago but it still continues)

You make a good point, she thought she was going to die soon.

I would take issue with, you don't have to be skilled at being crazy to be crazy.

You don't need experience to be crazy, but you can still show different levels of craziness. Not counting the first few moments, she didn't show any visible craziness at all, actually - it looked like she's trying to be evil twin quite deliberately.

I don't see "trying to be an evil twin deliberately" as a realistic motivation. I believe that for the most part, Dan keeps the motivations real enough that you can see some segment of society doing the whatever; this particular section always seemed a bit off. My problem with it is, at their core, people don't really do that. People don't align themselves with D&D "Evil", they rationalize how what they are doing is OK. Superficially, maybe she's trying to do that, deeper down, she's hurting and reacting. Crazy, in other words. PTSD. Can't handle the eminent loss. But not "Embracing evil"; even those folks rationalize it.

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I think Tedd's probably at the point where he's able to forgive Noriko for leaving, unless of course, there was more to it than simply being frustrated over Tedd not showing any magic potential, and it's possible she doesn't give a rat's ass about Tedd anymore if Van's potential was detected, so Tedd wouldn't have to forgive her then. I am curious about whether Tedd mentioned that he knows his mom's a wizard now and all that stuff when he told his dad about being a Seer and such, I also wonder if Edward knows that Noriko had another child named Van and how he'd react if Tedd mentioned there being a kid named Van at the meeting with the WoM.

I think you overestimate even a late teen's ability to overlook an offense of this scope. Eventually, yes, but he's still young. He will engage whole new levels of "WTF, Mom?" as he becomes more aware of parental responsibilities before he gets past it.

And, good Lord, if she left over Tedd's not showing any magic potential, she doen't deserve him nor Van. If she's still fully human, it's not possible that she doesn't give a rat's ass about Tedd. If she;s just looking at the power of her offspring, that pretty much puts her in psychopath territory; no empathy whatsoever. I'm betting it had something to do with, "The safety of my family". Not that it wasn't ill-advised.

"His Mom's a Wizard" - is that canon? I recall "Very powerful magic user and monster hunter", did I miss something?

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2 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I think you overestimate even a late teen's ability to overlook an offense of this scope. Eventually, yes, but he's still young. He will engage whole new levels of "WTF, Mom?" as he becomes more aware of parental responsibilities before he gets past it.

Given how he responded to Pandora's outburst about parenting, I think it goes a long way towards him understanding what his parents might have gone through.

6 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

And, good Lord, if she left over Tedd's not showing any magic potential, she doen't deserve him nor Van. If she's still fully human, it's not possible that she doesn't give a rat's ass about Tedd. If she;s just looking at the power of her offspring, that pretty much puts her in psychopath territory; no empathy whatsoever. I'm betting it had something to do with, "The safety of my family". Not that it wasn't ill-advised.

I only stated that part as a theoretical worst case, possible, but probably not likely. At the very least we do know she felt there was some sort of failure, either in herself, or Edward to produce a wizard, and despite Adrian's "he might never be your apprentice, but he'll always be your son." she still left.

20 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

"His Mom's a Wizard" - is that canon? I recall "Very powerful magic user and monster hunter", did I miss something?

Yeah Pandora told him that being a wizard is guaranteed when both parents are wizards, to which Tedd asked "My mom's a wizard?" and Pandora responded with "A particularly powerful one" and then added the part about coming from a line of monster hunters.

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