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Tom Sewell

Story Wednesday, July 17, 2019

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So Edward's being at least somewhat sensible that Ashley should be told about Uryuoms and Grace's heritage, but I don't think Arthur has enough knowledge of Ashley to base the assumption that she wouldn't take being told well at first.

I guess if she were to see an Uryuom, like if William and Gillian were to visit Tedd while she's there, and they're in their natural form, she might freak out because a golem that looked like them tried to kill her.

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26 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I guess if she were to see an Uryuom, like if William and Gillian were to visit Tedd while she's there, and they're in their natural form, she might freak out because a golem that looked like them tried to kill her.

But William and Gillian are "cute", as opposed to the golem which wasn't...

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Grace, remember this

EVERYONE at that party has secrets.

Ashley knows that everyone at that party has secrets

Ashley wants to know about these secrets

Ashley is too darn polite to openly ask anyone about their secrets

If all else fails, go into Squirrel mode and make sure the tail is extra fluffy

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2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

But make sure there are no dogs around!

But maybe we'll finally see Elliot use the cat form after so long?

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2 minutes ago, Scotty said:

But maybe we'll finally see Elliot use the cat form after so long?

Maybe to encourage Ashley to accept Grace's shapechanging?

Five of the Main Eight now have ways of taking the forms of other people in various ways: Tedd (to Grace and, potentially, the other six); Elliot (can create new forms more or less on the fly); Ellen (copy spell); Sarah, who at minimum has a watch that allows her to take Tedd's form; and Grace, probably the most versatile shapechanger.

Speaking of cats, does Grace still have that catnip plant she got at her last birthday? Or has Jeremy eaten it all? If so, I hope Tedd has stocked up on yarn.

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2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Maybe to encourage Ashley to accept Grace's shapechanging?

Five of the Main Eight now have ways of taking the forms of other people in various ways: Tedd (to Grace and, potentially, the other six);

I think Tedd has shown more different forms than any other character. Possibly more than the entire rest of the Main 8 combined.

And anyone who knows Tedd or Ellen well has ways of taking any of a large variety of different forms. (Although if they only know Ellen well, the varieties of "different" are somewhat limited.) That would obviously include all of the Main 8.

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15 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

I think Tedd has shown more different forms than any other character. Possibly more than the entire rest of the Main 8 combined.

I think so too, but until recently, Tedd needed gadgetry to transform. Elliot can look like any female human, but his only male forms are himself and himself as a cat-person. Ellen has only copied females (which might be why she couldn't copy not-Tengu.) This is why I rate Grace as the most versatile shapeshifter.

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13 hours ago, Scotty said:

So Edward's being at least somewhat sensible that Ashley should be told about Uryuoms and Grace's heritage, but I don't think Arthur has enough knowledge of Ashley to base the assumption that she wouldn't take being told well at first.

He WOULD prefer if she wasn't told, at least on the party ... but admits that eventually she will learn about them.

12 hours ago, mlooney said:
13 hours ago, Scotty said:

I guess if she were to see an Uryuom, like if William and Gillian were to visit Tedd while she's there, and they're in their natural form, she might freak out because a golem that looked like them tried to kill her.

But William and Gillian are "cute", as opposed to the golem which wasn't...

Also, the golem didn't looked that much as Uryuom ...

11 hours ago, mlooney said:
12 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Plus they can finally teach Ashley to speak other languages, such as French or Uryumoco.

Point in their favour.

10 hours ago, ijuin said:

Given that Ashley had a hard time trying to learn Spanish, such assistance would be a great help for her.

We don't know if THEY know Spanish. Also, I don't think they really appears on the party ...

... but in the case they would, it would definitely be worth the try.

8 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Grace, remember this

EVERYONE at that party has secrets.

Ashley knows that everyone at that party has secrets

Ashley wants to know about these secrets

Ashley is too darn polite to openly ask anyone about their secrets

Good point.

8 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

If all else fails, go into Squirrel mode and make sure the tail is extra fluffy

Even better point. But perhaps don't go omega, no matter how much fluffier are three tails instead of one.

4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Speaking of cats, does Grace still have that catnip plant she got at her last birthday? Or has Jeremy eaten it all? If so, I hope Tedd has stocked up on yarn.

Jeremy? It's entirely possible Grace and Tedd ate most of it. :)

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:
1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

I think Tedd has shown more different forms than any other character. Possibly more than the entire rest of the Main 8 combined.

I think so too, but until recently, Tedd needed gadgetry to transform. Elliot can look like any female human, but his only male forms are himself and himself as a cat-person. Ellen has only copied females (which might be why she couldn't copy not-Tengu.) This is why I rate Grace as the most versatile shapeshifter.

Elliot CAN look like any female human, but Tedd WANTS to explore more forms, so it's entirely plausible he had more forms than Elliot.

Copying not-Tengu would fail because of his spell resistance I think. Ellen definitely can copy males, just decided not to.

Grace can only combine forms she has, and I would assume most of the forms she has Tedd tested on himself as well. Still, yes, I guess it makes her most versatile from main eight, technically ...

... note that it's possible Rhoda's disquise spell has no actual limits ... we only SAW one form, but it's probably more versatile. May still be limited to humans.

 

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7 hours ago, hkmaly said:

He WOULD prefer if she wasn't told, at least on the party ... but admits that eventually she will learn about them.

 

He might prefer to tell to tell her and to warn her of the consequences of disseminating the information, rather than have her find out on her own. From Edward's point of view, briefing someone in is more controllable than a loose cannon rolling around.

 

We don't know if THEY know Spanish.

I wonder if they can also learn by the same method (well, similar method, but reverse) of the way they taught Uryumoco? Also, how the h$## does that ability evolve? And did Dan channel Tolkien and design Uryumoco, or is it random gibberish?

Also, they could make a fortune with that ability.

 

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At one point, if I remember correctly, Dan claimed that he lost his original notes regarding the Uryuomoco language.

However, I think there are enough fan made commentaries and translation pages to ensure we can continue to communicate.

https://elgoonishshive.fandom.com/wiki/Uryuom

https://elgoonishshive.fandom.com/wiki/Uryuomoco

http://www.ookii.org/Egs/Uryuom

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2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

At one point, if I remember correctly, Dan claimed that he lost his original notes regarding the Uryuomoco language.

However, I think there are enough fan made commentaries and translation pages to ensure we can continue to communicate.

https://elgoonishshive.fandom.com/wiki/Uryuom

https://elgoonishshive.fandom.com/wiki/Uryuomoco

http://www.ookii.org/Egs/Uryuom

(O"o)   ---(Ack!)       (or perhaps:    (O"o)   ---(Usp !)     )

The article on Uryuomoco spells it out in much detail. Definitely fourth wall knowledge that they are speaking coded English, I don't think it's supposed to seem that way in-universe.

So I poked around the last link's website, and the owner's name is Sven Groot.

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
21 hours ago, hkmaly said:

We don't know if THEY know Spanish.

I wonder if they can also learn by the same method (well, similar method, but reverse) of the way they taught Uryumoco?

Question indeed.

13 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Also, how the h$## does that ability evolve?

Are we SURE it's natural ability?

The most weird part is obviously that it works on humans.

However, not as weird as the fact Uryuom eggs can somehow combine DNA of several different species with no given limit of how different those species are.

9 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
13 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

At one point, if I remember correctly, Dan claimed that he lost his original notes regarding the Uryuomoco language.

However, I think there are enough fan made commentaries and translation pages to ensure we can continue to communicate.

https://elgoonishshive.fandom.com/wiki/Uryuom

https://elgoonishshive.fandom.com/wiki/Uryuomoco

http://www.ookii.org/Egs/Uryuom

(O"o)   ---(Ack!)       (or perhaps:    (O"o)   ---(Usp !)     )

The article on Uryuomoco spells it out in much detail. Definitely fourth wall knowledge that they are speaking coded English, I don't think it's supposed to seem that way in-universe.

So I poked around the last link's website, and the owner's name is Sven Groot.

To answer the original question, no, it's not Tolkien (nor Marc Okrand). It's not random gibberish either, of course.

And I agree, this is fourth-wall joke and not something which would be possible in-universe.

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While there is an obvious advantage to the Uryuom instant language-transfer ability, especially if the Uryuom homeworld had much more fragmented societies in pre-telecommunications ages (i.e. fewer big empires enforcing a lingua franca upon lots of people), there seems to be no mechanism by which such an ability would develop in the absence of other mind-to-mind communication ability. Why would they develop the ability to transfer ONLY languages, and then fall back on those languages for all other communication? One would expect that it should be possible to transfer other things, such as copying memories of sights and sounds, or large blocks of words (such as the memory of listening to someone else's speech). Maybe such things are possible, but take much more training to do properly than the language transfer?

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6 minutes ago, ijuin said:

Why would they develop the ability to transfer ONLY languages, and then fall back on those languages for all other communication?

Because Uryuoms have no ear openings to stick babelfish into. Kind of like iPhones with no phone plug.

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Are we SURE it's natural ability?

No.

 

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The most weird part is obviously that it works on humans.

That is weird.

 

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

However, not as weird as the fact Uryuom eggs can somehow combine DNA of several different species with no given limit of how different those species are.

If Earth life can participate, they would seemingly be DNA based, which is not a given, but does not seem unlikely, and the chirality has to match, that should be a 50%/50% chance, unless there's a reason that I'm not aware of why one would be favored. Encoding different sets of protein based on somewhat different sets of amino acids (expect much overlap, but not total) would lead to weirdness like needing to take alien vitamins. Grace, are you taking your Uryuom One a Days?

The different species, DNA's not a set of blueprints, it's a library and machinery for constructing complex organic molecules; seemingly with timing and quantity instructions. How that freaking house of cards stays together is beyond me. But speciation appears to be important in an evolutionary sense or it would not be as big an influence on outcomes as it is.

So, yeah, different numbers of strands and such should be a show stopper. Raising one of your questions, maybe it's not natural?

Some species are hermaphroditic, earthworms come to mind. Some have both genders and become one during a mating process, sea cucumbers battle to be the male and female. Maybe the Urywhosits started that way, then "improved" themselves. H#!!, maybe the egg is a biotechnically developed device that they now produce naturally that can unwrap and rewrap DNA, fixing it's chirality. Maybe knitting together disparate strands into a consistent whole set. (Oh, God, I'm doing the midichlorians thing. I'll stop.)

It raises the question, can Grace, a lespuko mate with Tedd, a human, and produce an offspring? Would her uterus handle all the anomalies without the benefit of the Uryuom egg? Might that be why she appeared to be squicked by the notion of human reproduction in one panel (was in the context of someone, Sarah, I think, explaining why people react badly to her nudity.)

 

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21 hours ago, ijuin said:

Why would they develop the ability to transfer ONLY languages, and then fall back on those languages for all other communication? One would expect that it should be possible to transfer other things, such as copying memories of sights and sounds, or large blocks of words (such as the memory of listening to someone else's speech). Maybe such things are possible, but take much more training to do properly than the language transfer?

We don't know if there are other things Uryuoms can transfer mentally, but we do know that the language transfer requires physical contact with at least one subject using their antennae. If all their direct-mind communication requires such contact, then it would make sense that they'd retain use of verbal communication.

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On 7/20/2019 at 1:31 AM, ChronosCat said:
On 7/19/2019 at 3:40 AM, ijuin said:

Why would they develop the ability to transfer ONLY languages, and then fall back on those languages for all other communication? One would expect that it should be possible to transfer other things, such as copying memories of sights and sounds, or large blocks of words (such as the memory of listening to someone else's speech). Maybe such things are possible, but take much more training to do properly than the language transfer?

We don't know if there are other things Uryuoms can transfer mentally, but we do know that the language transfer requires physical contact with at least one subject using their antennae. If all their direct-mind communication requires such contact, then it would make sense that they'd retain use of verbal communication.

You also don't take into account the possibility that originally everything was possible to be transferred, then some sort of keeping it secret developed. Although in such case, Uryuoms might still be able to read human minds ... wait, other way around. Humans might still be able to receive other kind of communication from Uryuoms, while Uryuoms developed ways to prevent that so it can't be used to control or confuse them.

I mean, transfering memory to someone in way the recipient might not be sure it's not his memory may be dangerous.

On 7/19/2019 at 3:59 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

Encoding different sets of protein based on somewhat different sets of amino acids (expect much overlap, but not total) would lead to weirdness like needing to take alien vitamins. Grace, are you taking your Uryuom One a Days?

Why would she? Also, it's possible she doesn't need vitamin C in food either. Quite likely in fact considering squirrels don't.

On 7/19/2019 at 3:59 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

It raises the question, can Grace, a lespuko mate with Tedd, a human, and produce an offspring? Would her uterus handle all the anomalies without the benefit of the Uryuom egg? Might that be why she appeared to be squicked by the notion of human reproduction in one panel (was in the context of someone, Sarah, I think, explaining why people react badly to her nudity.)

Having the ability to produce the uryuom egg means she has all necessary information in herself ; it would make sense if her uterus would have all necessary capabilities as well.

In fact, Grace is already hybrid, not pure lespuko, and she might need some of those ability no matter who she would mate with.

However, speaking about Grace not being human ... are we SURE she's already fertile? It's possible that her reproduction system needs more time to develop due to mentioned specifics, and her squicked reaction might match pre-teen reactions to sex.

.... actually, she may have the same reaction even if already fertile, just because she's PSYCHICALLY not ready for sex. That would explain better how she got over it quickly with Tedd :) (Yeah, I know, not canon ...)

On 7/19/2019 at 3:59 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

Maybe the Urywhosits started that way, then "improved" themselves. H#!!, maybe the egg is a biotechnically developed device that they now produce naturally that can unwrap and rewrap DNA, fixing it's chirality.

Maybe they STARTED with egg, but then enhanced it's capabilities with biotechnology (or Uryuom-power-tech) ; maybe it wasn't able to mix in other species naturally, or at least not as different as now.

 

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5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

You also don't take into account the possibility that originally everything was possible to be transferred, then some sort of keeping it secret developed. Although in such case, Uryuoms might still be able to read human minds ... wait, other way around. Humans might still be able to receive other kind of communication from Uryuoms, while Uryuoms developed ways to prevent that so it can't be used to control or confuse them.

I mean, transfering memory to someone in way the recipient might not be sure it's not his memory may be dangerous.

 

Might they even have the ability to plant false memories?

 

Why would she?

 

The premise was a non-overlapping set of amino acids, some from earth, some from elsewhere. If nothing on earth normally contained some of the amino acids her body needed, she would need supplements. Even more so for the uryuoms (who, to be fair, may be farming their own off-world veggies locally. I'm not a biologist, but my gut says that the amino acids we use is a sparse set, and this scenario is likely, although it is also likely that we would have some basic ones in common.

Aliens need not be DNA based, but I'm assuming uryuoms are if we can in any sense breed with them.

 

Also, it's possible she doesn't need vitamin C in food either. Quite likely in fact considering squirrels don't.

Cool factoid. Is that true for rodents in general?

 

Having the ability to produce the uryuom egg means she has all necessary information in herself ; it would make sense if her uterus would have all necessary capabilities as well.

Not following you. Why can Grace produce an uryuom egg? I don't recall that. The second part makes less sense, I think the egg/uterus is either/or, although like many things, if you dig deep enough you might find exceptions.

 

In fact, Grace is already hybrid, not pure lespuko, and she might need some of those ability no matter who she would mate with.

Sorry, lost me again; I'm not seeing the distinction between hybrid and lespuko. (Backing up a second, she's not a hybrid as we understand it in our universe, a produce of two different life forms that are close enough to naturally interbreed. It's all about the egg/blender)
 

However, speaking about Grace not being human ... are we SURE she's already fertile?

No, not at all, that was where I was going with the questions you quoted.

 

It's possible that her reproduction system needs more time to develop due to mentioned specifics, ...

True. there is much about her that suggests that she is mature, but we don't know because we don't know her biology.

 

... and her squicked reaction might match pre-teen reactions to sex.   [maybe] she's PSYCHICALLY not ready for sex.

That fits her initial level of naivety.

 

Maybe they STARTED with egg, ...

Tough to imagine this making evolutionary sense. The uryuoms are then the first sex, defined as sexless (at least by earth standards) and the second sex is the passive, temporary shelter egg, which if not for the genetic maintenance function it must play, would be just a shelter for the sperm-analogs. The implication is that the uryuoms are more recently out of the sea on their world than we are on ours; their mating style is like that of sea life. Without specific sperm and egg, the sperm-analog contributions of the parents must be moderated by the egg shelter, to avoid  immediate inbreeding and to maintain some semblance of how much genetic material does the offspring have. Thus "second sex" as opposed to mere shelter. Contributes nothing directly, but necessary to maintain the generations.

Phillip Jose Farmer wrote a short story like that, ages ago, a race that required a third party to mate, who was in effect the host for the other two's offspring. Come to think of it, we do that with surrogate mothers. Legally, that can get very sticky.

 

... then enhanced it's capabilities with biotechnology (or Uryuom-power-tech) ; maybe it wasn't able to mix in other species naturally, or at least not as different as now.

... or number of parents. Seems likely that it's not entirely natural.

 

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