Story Wednesday August 07, 2019

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

https://egscomics.com/comic/party-045

Ashley, the only young person allowed to drink coffee in the Veres house is Grace.

https://egscomics.com/comic/2007-05-31

[Darth Fluffy 302]

Not buying Elliot's reaction in panel 6. He has returned beer to the fridge for his sister; so even though the intent to sneak it wasn't there, he should know one method that teens have access to alcohol.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

27 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Not buying Elliot's reaction in panel 6. He has returned beer to the fridge for his sister; so even though the intent to sneak it wasn't there, he should know one method that teens have access to alcohol.

Oh? Sure, you could take beer from your parents' fridge, yes, but doing it intentionally would be unthinkable. That would be STEALING.

[Scotty 1,061]

55 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Not buying Elliot's reaction in panel 6. He has returned beer to the fridge for his sister; so even though the intent to sneak it wasn't there, he should know one method that teens have access to alcohol.

Elliot had a good excuse though, Grace mistook it for soda and Ellen was too chicken to take it back down herself, I mean what's the problem? She could have just said that Grace mistook it for soda.

It's probably a case of his parents telling him he isn't old enough to drink and he took it seriously and that if he wasn't old enough to drink, then everyone else his age isn't old enough and thus probably had the same talk from their parents, it's naive, but kinda logical?

Though what are the chances that Elliot was conceived by his parents being drunk, I mean, if math is right, Mrs Dunkel was of legal age but that's only 3 years older than Elliot is now and if Elliot is aware of what getting pregnant at that age can affect then he's probably not willing to take any chances. I dunno, would Dan be willing to do a story are where we see that no matter how cautious Elliot's been, he still ends up pregnant?

 

Yes, you read that right.

 

Oh also, the idea of Elliot thinking there's some Summer spy camp for hooligan teens is amusing.  I'm pretty sure that's Summer in general.

[mlooney 3,417]

Ellen seems to miss her drinking days.  

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

32 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Ellen seems to miss her drinking days.  

I don't like to think about it, but I suspect what Ellen misses most is having something to miss.

Every "Memory" she has from before the first encounter with the Dewitchery Diamond is borrowed (Elliot's), false (Government cover story), or superimposed (Second Life).  And those "memories" contradict one another.

It seems to me that Ellen throws herself into the shenanigans of the present, at least in part, to avoid thinking of her (lack of a) past.

[ChronosCat 155]

I can kind of sympathize with Elliot here. Back when I was in school, I'd sometimes see some of the other kids smoking cigarettes, but not being part of that crowd I had no idea how they got them. I didn't want to smoke (this was around the time my parents were struggling to quit, so I knew better than to start) but I couldn't help but wonder how they were getting them.

I imagine alcohol use was also going on, but I never saw it.

...After all the anti-drug propoganda in school and on TV, I was also a bit puzzled (and rather relieved) no one was offering me drugs let alone trying to pressure me into using them...

4 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Not buying Elliot's reaction in panel 6. He has returned beer to the fridge for his sister; so even though the intent to sneak it wasn't there, he should know one method that teens have access to alcohol.

If Elliot took enough alcohol from the fridge to provide some for everybody at the party, his parents would notice they were missing, and at least wonder if one of the kids was responsible - and this is a relatively small party. (Even the small amount Grace took was noticed; I imagine the only reason the Dunkel parents didn't suspect Elliot and Ellen were because Elliot is so trustworthy.)

So the question in Elliot's mind (and my mind for that matter) is, how teens would get enough alcohol for a party without adults knowing. (Of course, Elliot is apparently not considering the possibility that an adult might actually help the teens get alcohol.)

[ijuin 572]

There’s also the matter that, at their age,  the “adult” may be a sibling or friend who is a mere three years older. For example, if Carol thought that Sarah should be allowed to drink, or Rhea for Diane.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

52 minutes ago, ijuin said:

There’s also the matter that, at their age,  the “adult” may be a sibling or friend who is a mere three years older. For example, if Carol thought that Sarah should be allowed to drink, or Rhea for Diane.

Stupid question from a European here -- is 21 the legal drinking age everywhere in the US or does it vary from state to state?

[Scotty 1,061]

Just now, ijuin said:

There’s also the matter that, at their age,  the “adult” may be a sibling or friend who is a mere three years older. For example, if Carol thought that Sarah should be allowed to drink, or Rhea for Diane.

Dan may not show an older sibling getting alcohol or cigarettes for a younger sibling, but we can be thankful for him showing a younger sibling smuggling cookies to her older sibling.

[ChronosCat 155]

2 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Stupid question from a European here -- is 21 the legal drinking age everywhere in the US or does it vary from state to state?

You got me curious, so I decided to look it up.

The states are legally allowed to set their own laws regarding drinking age, but the National Minimum Drinking Age Act reduces the amount of highway funding for any state that allows the purchase or possession of alcohol by people under 21. Naturally all the states have thus put in place laws prohibiting the purchase of alcohol by those under 21 (though interestingly Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands are holdouts, with 18 as the minimum drinking age). However in many states it's still legal for those under 21 to drink alcohol (in some cases with certain restrictions).

For details on the individual state laws, see List of alcohol laws of the Unites States.

Fun fact: While no national or state laws currently prohibit the sale of alcohol to adults over 21, some states allow smaller jurisdictions to establish such laws, and there are actually a number of "dry counties".

[Darth Fluffy 302]

3 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Stupid question from a European here -- is 21 the legal drinking age everywhere in the US or does it vary from state to state?

It has varied; I think it may be 21 everywhere now. I don't know if that's a federal override, but when I was 19, it was per state, and we used to walk from Pa to NJ (short walk) where we could legally drink. Perhaps someone closer to the age it would matter might know.

My parents used to let me have a little bit of wine on special occasions like holiday dinners, always in the privacy of the home. Even at a very young age, it was not enough to get drunk on. The legality never occurred to me at the time, I thought it was normal, but I don't know; I'm pretty sure our authorities would flip out today.

 

[Darth Fluffy 302]

4 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

You got me curious, so I decided to look it up.

The states are legally allowed to set their own laws regarding drinking age, but the National Minimum Drinking Age Act reduces the amount of highway funding for any state that allows the purchase or possession of alcohol by people under 21. Naturally all the states have thus put in place laws prohibiting the purchase of alcohol by those under 21 (though interestingly Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands are holdouts, with 18 as the minimum drinking age). However in many states it's still legal for those under 21 to drink alcohol (in some cases with certain restrictions).

For details on the individual state laws, see List of alcohol laws of the Unites States.

Fun fact: While no national or state laws currently prohibit the sale of alcohol to adults over 21, some states allow smaller jurisdictions to establish such laws, and there are actually a number of "dry counties".

... and there are still some "blue laws" restricting alcohol sale on Sundays, though those are falling by the wayside.

 

[hkmaly 490]

16 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Ashley, the only young person allowed to drink coffee in the Veres house is Grace.

https://egscomics.com/comic/2007-05-31

I'm pretty sure Tedd is only person NOT allowed. Especially considering they are all technically adult now (over 18).

12 hours ago, Scotty said:

Though what are the chances that Elliot was conceived by his parents being drunk, I mean, if math is right, Mrs Dunkel was of legal age but that's only 3 years older than Elliot is now and if Elliot is aware of what getting pregnant at that age can affect then he's probably not willing to take any chances. I dunno, would Dan be willing to do a story are where we see that no matter how cautious Elliot's been, he still ends up pregnant?

I think that no matter if Elliot's parents were drunk or not, it's not what they emphasized about it ; so Elliot's stance on alcohol is just based on his naivety about people upholding laws.

Also, while not explicitly confirmed, I think that all Elliot's girl forms share the FV5 limitations of needing to be in girl form for weeks before you can get pregnant. Then there is also the fact that if Elliot is transformed, there would be just two males left and Justin is gay.

9 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

10 hours ago, mlooney said:

Ellen seems to miss her drinking days.  

I don't like to think about it, but I suspect what Ellen misses most is having something to miss.

Every "Memory" she has from before the first encounter with the Dewitchery Diamond is borrowed (Elliot's), false (Government cover story), or superimposed (Second Life).  And those "memories" contradict one another.

It seems to me that Ellen throws herself into the shenanigans of the present, at least in part, to avoid thinking of her (lack of a) past.

I think that teenagers in general don't care about past so much, so Ellen is not that different ... yes, there might be some element of regret that so much of her memories are not really her, but I don't think it's what makes her to throw herself into shenanigans. She explained her reason: it's to be more different from Elliot.

9 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

...After all the anti-drug propoganda in school and on TV, I was also a bit puzzled (and rather relieved) no one was offering me drugs let alone trying to pressure me into using them...

I was specifically told that there are people selling drugs on streets I'm walking to school through. Never saw any. Granted, they probably only appeared at night, while the school was over day as usual ...

9 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

13 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Not buying Elliot's reaction in panel 6. He has returned beer to the fridge for his sister; so even though the intent to sneak it wasn't there, he should know one method that teens have access to alcohol.

If Elliot took enough alcohol from the fridge to provide some for everybody at the party, his parents would notice they were missing, and at least wonder if one of the kids was responsible - and this is a relatively small party. (Even the small amount Grace took was noticed; I imagine the only reason the Dunkel parents didn't suspect Elliot and Ellen were because Elliot is so trustworthy.)

So the question in Elliot's mind (and my mind for that matter) is, how teens would get enough alcohol for a party without adults knowing. (Of course, Elliot is apparently not considering the possibility that an adult might actually help the teens get alcohol.)

Not only that: it's parties. Taking alcohol from the fridge - even assuming there IS enough of it there, which is unlikely - would be like one-time opportunity, because, yes, parents would notice.

6 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Stupid question from a European here -- is 21 the legal drinking age everywhere in the US or does it vary from state to state?

On a related note, is 21 the legal drinking age in the version of US Ellen lived her second live in? When I saw the image about her drinking, I actually assumed the legal drinking age is different there. But, seems that it's just that she knew how to get alcohol there anyway ...

BTW, while most of teens on parties Ashley knew couldn't do that, if Ellen OR Elliot wanted to get alcohol, they could just use transformation to look old enough noone would bother to ask for ID.

7 hours ago, ijuin said:

There’s also the matter that, at their age,  the “adult” may be a sibling or friend who is a mere three years older. For example, if Carol thought that Sarah should be allowed to drink, or Rhea for Diane.

While both of those examples are unlikely, in general yes ; it's enough if few little older people are invited to the party ...

[Scotty 1,061]

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Also, while not explicitly confirmed, I think that all Elliot's girl forms share the FV5 limitations of needing to be in girl form for weeks before you can get pregnant. Then there is also the fact that if Elliot is transformed, there would be just two males left and Justin is gay.

Grace stated that the TFG documentation said the transformation needed to be held for several days before pregnancy was possible, not weeks. BUT, that's related to TFG based transformations, Elliot's morphs are magic based and "because magic" we can't be sure whether there's a safe period or if she'd be ready to go immediately.

Either way, it might be possible that Elliot and Ashley spend a week genderswapped and "whoops!".

[hkmaly 490]

50 minutes ago, Scotty said:

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Also, while not explicitly confirmed, I think that all Elliot's girl forms share the FV5 limitations of needing to be in girl form for weeks before you can get pregnant. Then there is also the fact that if Elliot is transformed, there would be just two males left and Justin is gay.

Grace stated that the TFG documentation said the transformation needed to be held for several days before pregnancy was possible, not weeks. BUT, that's related to TFG based transformations, Elliot's morphs are magic based and "because magic" we can't be sure whether there's a safe period or if she'd be ready to go immediately.

... ok, days.

Sure, we only have it CONFIRMED for TFG based transformations, but it's still POSSIBLE this limitation is shared, because the underlying reason is that the transformation can't turn mature sperm into mature eggs. Similarly, while the size change limits of TFG can be overcamed with Rhoda's magic, they are still valid for Tedd's watches and I think even for Ellen's spells, because going over them needs different kind of magic. Sweet-tasting one.

And, frankly, with magic mirroring what the person getting the spells yearns for, I wouldn't be surprised if Elliot couldn't get pregnant while transformed period. Mostly however he doesn't seem to stay long in single form ...

54 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Either way, it might be possible that Elliot and Ashley spend a week genderswapped and "whoops!".

I suspect they are more likely to spend a week as girls both. But yes, of course it's POSSIBLE. I just don't consider it likely.

On the other hand, IF the spells usually prevents pregnancy, it may be reason WHY they get careless in first place. Like, rather than "no matter how cautious Elliot's been", it will be him relying on magic to prevent pregnancy and either misunderstanding the "manual" or like forgetting how long it was.

[detrius 20]

Quick comment on the effects of coffee and alcohol:

Coffee doesn't sober you up.

If you're drunk and drink coffee, what happens is this: in addition to making people drunk, alcohol also makes them sleepy. Coffee just nullifies that secondary effect, it doesn't remove the alcohol in the bloodstream - you're still drunk, but now also awake. This means it enables people to consume more alcohol and get even more drunk. Or attempt to drive home. Which is why combining alcohol with coffee is a really bad idea.

This makes me wonder what kind of party Ashely is talking about, because this little bit of information makes them sound like total booze sessions.

And did someone trick her into this? I can see her providing coffee if she thinks that it makes people "less drunk", but not once she realizes the potential for harm. So was she just misinformed or did someone goad her into this?

[Darth Fluffy 302]

9 hours ago, detrius said:

Quick comment on the effects of coffee and alcohol:

Coffee doesn't sober you up.

If you're drunk and drink coffee, what happens is this: in addition to making people drunk, alcohol also makes them sleepy. Coffee just nullifies that secondary effect, it doesn't remove the alcohol in the bloodstream - you're still drunk, but now also awake. This means it enables people to consume more alcohol and get even more drunk. Or attempt to drive home. Which is why combining alcohol with coffee is a really bad idea.

This makes me wonder what kind of party Ashely is talking about, because this little bit of information makes them sound like total booze sessions.

And did someone trick her into this? I can see her providing coffee if she thinks that it makes people "less drunk", but not once she realizes the potential for harm. So was she just misinformed or did someone goad her into this?

Coffee sobers you up is a common misconception. She and her peers are just misinformed.

[Tom Sewell 268]

On 8/7/2019 at 5:53 PM, hkmaly said:

I was specifically told that there are people selling drugs on streets I'm walking to school through. Never saw any. Granted, they probably only appeared at night, while the school was over day as usual ...

I had someone try to sell me drugs in front of a middle school in broad daylight while school was in session. California, dude.

[hkmaly 490]

12 hours ago, detrius said:

If you're drunk and drink coffee, what happens is this: in addition to making people drunk, alcohol also makes them sleepy. Coffee just nullifies that secondary effect, it doesn't remove the alcohol in the bloodstream - you're still drunk, but now also awake. This means it enables people to consume more alcohol and get even more drunk. Or attempt to drive home. Which is why combining alcohol with coffee is a really bad idea.

I fail to see how trying to drive home while not just drunk but also sleepy would be better idea.

Trying to drive home while drunk is idea so obviously bad that only drunk people can come with it - oh wait.

In short, alcohol - in amounts which makes you drunk - is a really bad idea with or without the coffee, so why blame coffee?

12 hours ago, detrius said:

This makes me wonder what kind of party Ashely is talking about, because this little bit of information makes them sound like total booze sessions.

Sounds like normal teenage party. Case in point.

What else you expect them to do if not drinking? Making out in front of everyone? Sober?

2 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Coffee sobers you up is a common misconception. She and her peers are just misinformed.

... which would be normal for teenagers, too. They need some experience to counter that misconception. ... and I'm not sure experience got while being drunk counts, or rather if they remember them.

10 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

On 8/8/2019 at 2:53 AM, hkmaly said:

I was specifically told that there are people selling drugs on streets I'm walking to school through. Never saw any. Granted, they probably only appeared at night, while the school was over day as usual ...

I had someone try to sell me drugs in front of a middle school in broad daylight while school was in session. California, dude.

If I ever meet those people explaining how dangerous neighborhood I live in again, I will tell them.

Not that I wouldn't have some suspicion already.