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Pharaoh RutinTutin

NP Wednesday August 21, 2019

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Commentary: All good points. Really, this doesn't look like anything any of the cast would write. However, there are several candidates who can dream this ... with prime candidate being Elliot, who already HAD dream involving kissing Tedd.

24 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

For Science?

This is not how we were taught Science in my school.

My school also lacked in this regard.

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26 minutes ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

with prime candidate being Elliot, who already HAD dream involving kissing Tedd.

A dream fueled by Grace's fantasy. I mean, Dan links back to Grace's fantasy in the dream commentary as emphasis.

Hmmm ... ok, that's possible but doesn't invalidate what I said. He can easily have another dream fueled by Grace's fantasy.

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1 hour ago, Alwaysnewguy said:

I didn't know science was on the curriculum in ancient Egypt.

The courses were not as compartmentalized.  And everything was wrapped up in what you might dismiss as Mysticism or Art.  But there was a solid base of astronomy, botany, chemistry, geometry, hydrology, medicine, physics, and zoology which not only supported the pyramids, but provided foundation stones for later empires in Africa,  Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome.

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I do find all of this fun, but I increasingly wonder just how long its going to be before Dan just gives in and goes full SlipShine?  I still remember how much I enjoyed "Penny and Aggie" and how disappointed I was when Gisele literally cashed in with M3 and SDB, which had basically zero content that didn't involve outright titillation.  

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14 hours ago, Nayl said:

I do find all of this fun, but I increasingly wonder just how long its going to be before Dan just gives in and goes full SlipShine?  I still remember how much I enjoyed "Penny and Aggie" and how disappointed I was when Gisele literally cashed in with M3 and SDB, which had basically zero content that didn't involve outright titillation.  

Nothing against titillation, but I would think there are better things to do with NP too ... like, "titillation" could be in sketchbooks.

15 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:
16 hours ago, Alwaysnewguy said:

I didn't know science was on the curriculum in ancient Egypt.

The courses were not as compartmentalized.  And everything was wrapped up in what you might dismiss as Mysticism or Art.  But there was a solid base of astronomy, botany, chemistry, geometry, hydrology, medicine, physics, and zoology which not only supported the pyramids, but provided foundation stones for later empires in Africa,  Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome.

It was a solid base, but I'm afraid It was the ancient Greeks who engaged in the earliest forms of what is today recognized as a rational theoretical science.

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39 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

He did say it was all wrapped up in Mysticism and Art. Still, props to the Greeks for doing the unwrapping.

Even so, I can't help but think that there just mayyybeee is a tiny little Western bias to what gets to be 'recognised as a rational theoretical science.' It wasn't anyone in Europe who invented positional notation, for example. And mathematics just wouldn't have been the same without it.

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19 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

He did say it was all wrapped up in Mysticism and Art. Still, props to the Greeks for doing the unwrapping.

Even so, I can't help but think that there just mayyybeee is a tiny little Western bias to what gets to be 'recognised as a rational theoretical science.' It wasn't anyone in Europe who invented positional notation, for example. And mathematics just wouldn't have been the same without it.

I don't think the western bias would play role here. It was likely the wrapping. Or the hard-to-read writing.

(It was especially hard to read the scrolls stored in Alexandria library ... too charred.)

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Just now, hkmaly said:

I don't think the western bias would play role here. It was likely the wrapping. Or the hard-to-read writing.

I was thinking of the fact that it was a Hindu who invented the concept of positional notation sometime around the birth of Christ. I don't think whoever did it managed to do so out of the blue without a thriving study of mathematics behind them. That hints at a society with considerable resources available for pure theory work. How much is known of these Hindu mathematicians and their roots? And what about other East Asian societies, many of which were also very advanced? Isuspect that they might have possessed a good deal of rational theoretical scientific know-how that just might have been overlooked when it comes to the number one spot.

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2 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:
7 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I don't think the western bias would play role here. It was likely the wrapping. Or the hard-to-read writing.

I was thinking of the fact that it was a Hindu who invented the concept of positional notation sometime around the birth of Christ

Well, sure, but the polymath Archimedes (ca. 287–212 BC) invented a decimal positional system little earlier. Didn't made it into standard, though.

4 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

I don't think whoever did it managed to do so out of the blue without a thriving study of mathematics behind them. That hints at a society with considerable resources available for pure theory work. How much is known of these Hindu mathematicians and their roots? And what about other East Asian societies, many of which were also very advanced? Isuspect that they might have possessed a good deal of rational theoretical scientific know-how that just might have been overlooked when it comes to the number one spot.

Note that there was significant oral tradition in Hindu philosophy, which makes it extremely hard to read :)

I wonder if there was more contact between Greek and Asian philosophers than is today expected. On the other hand, it's equally possible they did the discoveries independently and it was the fact that the Greek knowledge spread to Rome while the Asian knowledge didn't spreaded anywhere why we are recognizing the Greeks.

However, the western bias is more likely to play role in later discoveries, especially the ones made in Asia while Europe was slowed by dark ages. THAT was the time when Asian societies were considerably more advanced than Europe ...

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Just now, hkmaly said:

Note that there was significant oral tradition in Hindu philosophy, which makes it extremely hard to read :)

I am having some trouble envisioning oral positional notation. Or actually any kind of oral notation. :icon_eek:

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16 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:
18 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Note that there was significant oral tradition in Hindu philosophy, which makes it extremely hard to read :)

I am having some trouble envisioning oral positional notation. Or actually any kind of oral notation. :icon_eek:

It is POSSIBLE that the positional notation was not part of that oral tradition.

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6 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:
7 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It is POSSIBLE that the positional notation was not part of that oral tradition.

Given that notation per definition isn't oral... I would upgrade that to a certainty.

Nevertheless, you can READ number in decimal positional notation just fine.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

Nevertheless, you can READ number in decimal positional notation just fine.

........................................................

THAT WAS MY ENTIRE FUCKING POINT. NOTATION INVOLVES WRITING. SO WHY THE SODDING BOLLOCKS BRING UP ORAL TRADITIONS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

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6 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:
7 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Nevertheless, you can READ number in decimal positional notation just fine.

........................................................

THAT WAS MY ENTIRE FUCKING POINT. NOTATION INVOLVES WRITING. SO WHY THE SODDING BOLLOCKS BRING UP ORAL TRADITIONS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Because it DOES make harder to find out what they were working on and when.

Did you READ the linked wikipedia article? Or at least skim.

The "notation" definition notwithstanding, they might first develop the "positional" system in oral tradition and only write it down later.

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8 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

I was thinking of the fact that it was a Hindu who invented the concept of positional notation sometime around the birth of Christ. I don't think whoever did it managed to do so out of the blue without a thriving study of mathematics behind them. That hints at a society with considerable resources available for pure theory work. How much is known of these Hindu mathematicians and their roots? And what about other East Asian societies, many of which were also very advanced? Isuspect that they might have possessed a good deal of rational theoretical scientific know-how that just might have been overlooked when it comes to the number one spot.

And not just mathematics. I've read that Sanskrit has a technical subset dedicated to describing language and grammar, and there is no modern human language that this subset can't accurately define the grammar of. (In contrast, English can't accurately define the grammar of even English... although it's slightly better at defining the grammar of Latin.)

 

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13 hours ago, Don Edwards said:
22 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

I was thinking of the fact that it was a Hindu who invented the concept of positional notation sometime around the birth of Christ. I don't think whoever did it managed to do so out of the blue without a thriving study of mathematics behind them. That hints at a society with considerable resources available for pure theory work. How much is known of these Hindu mathematicians and their roots? And what about other East Asian societies, many of which were also very advanced? Isuspect that they might have possessed a good deal of rational theoretical scientific know-how that just might have been overlooked when it comes to the number one spot.

And not just mathematics. I've read that Sanskrit has a technical subset dedicated to describing language and grammar, and there is no modern human language that this subset can't accurately define the grammar of. (In contrast, English can't accurately define the grammar of even English... although it's slightly better at defining the grammar of Latin.)

I'm sure it has something to do with that oral tradition :)

Also, isn't English basically the hardest language to define, due to everything it stole from so many other languages?

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

I'm sure it has something to do with that oral tradition :)

Kindly put a sock in it with that oral tradition. Of COURSE writing has something to do with oral tradition. Writing is at its essence an attempt to preserve spoken ideas/concepts in a form that may be stored.

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