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Pharaoh RutinTutin

Story Friday August 30, 2019

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If all Seers have hair,
Then everyone with hair is a Seer.

Perfect and unassailable logic

 

Having settled that, I shall now solve sibling rivalry and mitigate the Milky Way-Andromeda collision

(Mostly, I just want to ensure that the resulting giant elliptical galaxy is NOT named Milkomeda)

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:
4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

If you are trying to imply all seers have same hair color I find it very unlikely. First, Tedd directly said it's not related to magic potential, second, that would make very easy to identify seers.

No no, I was saying that being a Seer might put another twist on hair colours, like the mixing of the parent's colours to produce a different colour, Tedd's purple hair would appear to be a mix of Edward's blue and Noriko's red, but for Van, instead of being a mix, he end up with the two toned, though we can't be certain if he's got any red hair until Dan does Van in colour at some point.

The fact two of three known seers have DIFFERENT twist on hair colours doesn't exactly make it likely.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

But yeah, it would make it easy to identify Seers, if anyone is able to confirm it. I suspect one would need to find more than 3 confirmed Seer's and compare their hair colours against what is already considered unusual.

... and ensure whatever you compare it against are not unconfirmed seers.

29 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

If all Seers have hair,
Then everyone with hair is a Seer.

Perfect and unassailable logic

I vaguely remember Socrates being involved with this logic.

29 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Having settled that, I shall now solve sibling rivalry and mitigate the Milky Way-Andromeda collision

(Mostly, I just want to ensure that the resulting giant elliptical galaxy is NOT named Milkomeda)

You should start with ensuring that Pa'anuri, the dark matter creatures living in Andromeda won't destroy Milky Way before the collision happens.

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8 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Hmmm ... Van's hair is really interesting. Note that what we see is not reality, it's some dream-like space, and while Tedd and Arthur look like in reality we can't rule out Van doesn't. But maybe that's really how he looks ... in which case, well, two-color hair were not mentioned yet so maybe that's dye ... OR transformation. He's young but Noriko might already taught him some spells.

Given how Tedd appeared during the "conference" as compared to Tedd's physical form immediately before and after, I'm willing to bet that within the mindscape, people default to appearing as their personal internal self-image. Tedd appeared that way because that was how she thought of herself at the time, and likewise with Van and Arthur.

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27 minutes ago, ijuin said:
8 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Hmmm ... Van's hair is really interesting. Note that what we see is not reality, it's some dream-like space, and while Tedd and Arthur look like in reality we can't rule out Van doesn't. But maybe that's really how he looks ... in which case, well, two-color hair were not mentioned yet so maybe that's dye ... OR transformation. He's young but Noriko might already taught him some spells.

Given how Tedd appeared during the "conference" as compared to Tedd's physical form immediately before and after, I'm willing to bet that within the mindscape, people default to appearing as their personal internal self-image. Tedd appeared that way because that was how she thought of herself at the time, and likewise with Van and Arthur.

While looking same due to personal self-image mostly matching reality is most likely option, I think there are two alternatives worth thinking about: first, children may have bigger fantasy and their personal internal self-image may therefore differ more from how they look. Second ... Tedd and Arthur both went to conference from being awake. Van, due to time zone difference, was likely sleeping. It's possible he appeared how he looked in dream he had.

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15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

You should start with ensuring that Pa'anuri, the dark matter creatures living in Andromeda won't destroy Milky Way before the collision happens.

While I had not initially considered engaging the Pa'anuri, they could prove useful. If the Milky Was is consumed, then there is no collision.

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10 minutes ago, ijuin said:

The collision is not due to happen for quite some time. We can worry about it next millennium.

Things already seem to be heating up here on Earth at the moment. Let's look at the local problems first.

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1 hour ago, ijuin said:

The collision is not due to happen for quite some time. We can worry about it next millennium.

Procrastination won't help.

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

Things already seem to be heating up here on Earth at the moment. Let's look at the local problems first.

Ok, maybe there are few issues with higher priority right now ...

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On 8/31/2019 at 7:37 AM, hkmaly said:

On the other hand, children usually are not allowed to dye their hair until certain age ...

Like many things I'd hazard a guess that this is happening younger and younger, and some parents are probably going along with dyeing their children's hair well before their teens. Mine started in high school and tried it, none continued for long. 

 

On 8/31/2019 at 7:37 AM, hkmaly said:

Meanwhile, the "mysterious" doesn't refer to how common it is, just how it's not explained well yet.

Yes it explicitly means that, but again, red hair, if it's not really rare, it's not really mysterious.

 

On 8/31/2019 at 7:37 AM, hkmaly said:

Also, we may doubt Liz, but Nanase and Tedd having mysterious hair color is proven: THEY know they don't dye it.

That's true, they would know.

I don't recall Tedd saying he did not dye his hair purple. He did say (almost) that he did not dye his pink hair pink (before he backpedaled about changing it magically), and presumably if it is not natural, he would now use magic to make it purple.

Nanase explicitly mentioned dyeing her hair at some point I think; it may have been related to her burnout. I could easily be mistaken.

 

On 8/31/2019 at 7:37 AM, hkmaly said:

Do you really consider more likely she's dragon than just having mysterious hair?

No, I marked it "Trolling ..."

 

On 8/31/2019 at 7:37 AM, hkmaly said:

The joke with ficus notwithstanding, yes, Liz might be part plant and her hair being colored by chlorophyll. However, we know that Ellen's hair color is related to dragons, so this explanation seems not only less likely than Liz being part dragon, it would also not solve the issue of "all green hair color should have same source" we mentioned :)

(copper) There is no blood in hair, so I don't see any relation.

Chlorophyll is somewhat similar to hemoglobin, but binds magnesium rather than iron. Abundance of metals is something the body needs to keep track of and continually balance; eliminating an excess through hair growth is a reasonable strategy. 

We don't know that Ellen's green hair color is related to the dragon scale core of the dewitchery diamond, that is a conclusion she leaped to; recall Arthur attempting to downplay the connection as tenuous. I don't think he was covering up anything so much as trying to be the voice of reason.

 

On 8/31/2019 at 7:37 AM, hkmaly said:

 

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2 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Nanase explicitly mentioned dyeing her hair at some point I think; it may have been related to her burnout. I could easily be mistaken.

Yes it was related to the burnout. She only dyed her hair while burned out, and not even for all that time. How "long" she kept it dyed speaks a lot about the probability she was dyeing it before that, by the way - in fact, it's possible she only dyed it ONCE.

2 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I don't recall Tedd saying he did not dye his hair purple. He did say (almost) that he did not dye his pink hair pink (before he backpedaled about changing it magically), and presumably if it is not natural, he would now use magic to make it purple.

Yeah, he technically never said it ... to us. But, like, she's right there, and Nanase is the one saying it. THEY KNOW.

2 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

We don't know that Ellen's green hair color is related to the dragon scale core of the dewitchery diamond, that is a conclusion she leaped to; recall Arthur attempting to downplay the connection as tenuous. I don't think he was covering up anything so much as trying to be the voice of reason.

He probably wasn't covering anything as much as actually not knowing about any dragon (and realizing in advance that this would be conclusion Ellen will jump to) ; however, that doesn't mean that dragons really don't exists. Arthur's knowledge about what was before previous resets is limited - he even JUST ADMITTED THAT. And WE saw how Ellen looked. We also SAW some dragon.

Note that the part about Ellen's hair being green because of dewitchery diamond seem confirmed ; only leap is the one with the scale being from dragon.

Also note that existence of griffins makes existence of dragons more likely ; in fact, it's possible griffins evolved from dragons just like birds evolved from dinosaurs.

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5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

He probably wasn't covering anything as much as actually not knowing about any dragon (and realizing in advance that this would be conclusion Ellen will jump to) ; however, that doesn't mean that dragons really don't exists. Arthur's knowledge about what was before previous resets is limited - he even JUST ADMITTED THAT. And WE saw how Ellen looked. We also SAW some dragon.

Note that the part about Ellen's hair being green because of dewitchery diamond seem confirmed ; only leap is the one with the scale being from dragon.

Even Arthur didn't say they don't exist. Magus has already confirmed that they do exist, in his universe, at least.

Color is never mentioned with respect to any dragons. IIRC, the drawing, even of the bulldog dragon, have all been gray scale. Perhaps one of the magic card game cards shows hue.

The dewitchery diamond core was either said to be green, or I (we?) got that notion from "It's actually the dewitchery emerald" and Ellen and others subsequent reactions. Did it come from a dragon? It seems like a logical but unconfirmed tentative deduction. Arthur claimed to not know, which is quite reasonable; they acquired the artifact already created by Abraham. Abraham may know, but he isn't talking. So yeah, Ellen is jumping to a reasonable, but unconfirmed conclusion.

Yes, the dewitchery diamond caused Ellen's hair to be green. Not necessarily because it was also green, but that's a reasonable guess. However, it had plenty of other effects in the vicinity that were not just something changing hue.

 

5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Also note that existence of griffins makes existence of dragons more likely ; in fact, it's possible griffins evolved from dragons just like birds evolved from dinosaurs.

 Do you mean because of the raven paradox? I suppose that's true, but it is, uhm, a less than an intellectually satisfying evidence. You could just as easily say "green apples are evidence of purple ravens".

There is no need to beat the existence of dragons to death for this comic multiverse. Aside from "It's already been mentioned.", it seems likely that something reasonably constructed would exist in some subset of the universes. Dragons are not an entirely unreasonable construct, although some of the details of some versions seem far fetched.

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Even Arthur didn't say they don't exist. Magus has already confirmed that they do exist, in his universe, at least.

Considering it IS possible to travel between universes, yes, Magus's dragons are relevant.

10 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

The dewitchery diamond core was either said to be green, or I (we?) got that notion from "It's actually the dewitchery emerald" and Ellen and others subsequent reactions.

Looks quite green to me. Also here.

10 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Did it come from a dragon? It seems like a logical but unconfirmed tentative deduction. Arthur claimed to not know, which is quite reasonable;

Yes, sure, from the characters it's speculation and conclusion jumping. We at least saw how Ellen looked (Arthur didn't ; the footage got wibbly), but even with that it can't be considered confirmed. Still quite likely.

10 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

they acquired the artifact already created by Abraham. Abraham may know, but he isn't talking.

Actually, Abraham never saw the scale and was not really aware the "diamond" is not diamond. Maybe his mentor knew ... the one killed by werewolf.

11 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

What has Adrian to do ... oh. Right.

No. What I meant is that they have similar body structure. For comparison, on our earth, ALL vertebrates ever leaving the sea have four limbs or less. It's because the first fish which left sea had four fins and the way limbs/fins are encoded in DNA doesn't support duplication (this is in contrast with insects etc, where duplication of whole body segment can relatively easily occur).

So, existence of one animal with six limbs - specifically, four legs and two wings - actually supports existence of other similar animals, like dragons.

Of course, it's support, not proof. Existence of horse doesn't prove existence of unicorn, despite their similarity. But it invalidates quite a lot of arguments based on such body structure being impossible, impractical etc.

11 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Dragons are not an entirely unreasonable construct, although some of the details of some versions seem far fetched.

Far fetched compared to what? Human superheroes? Fairies? Pokemons?

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42 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

So, why George RR Martin?

An alleged joke referring to how long Game of Thrones teased the Dragons.

My recent attempts at humor seem to be falling flatter than globes before time of Eratosthenes.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Ooo, shiny! I did not recall the pictures, but yes, that also counts.

 

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Actually, Abraham never saw the scale and was not really aware the "diamond" is not diamond. Maybe his mentor knew ... the one killed by werewolf.

Forgot that detail that he found his master's "diamond" thought he had created it. Someone at some point ought to have known, although handwave reasons it's entirely natural in some universe is possible. Ever since it has been shown/said to be green, I've been thinking "really an emerald", but it is possible it is a green diamond or some other mineral.

 

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

What has Adrian to do ... oh. Right.

Lulz.

 

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

No. What I meant is that they have similar body structure. For comparison, on our earth, ALL vertebrates ever leaving the sea have four limbs or less. It's because the first fish which left sea had four fins and the way limbs/fins are encoded in DNA doesn't support duplication (this is in contrast with insects etc, where duplication of whole body segment can relatively easily occur).

So, existence of one animal with six limbs - specifically, four legs and two wings - actually supports existence of other similar animals, like dragons.

That's a good point.

 

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Of course, it's support, not proof. Existence of horse doesn't prove existence of unicorn, despite their similarity.

Shush!, My granddaughter might hear you.

Unicorns are no weirder than narwhals.

 

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Far fetched compared to what? Human superheroes? Fairies? Pokemons?

Had in mind the ability to fly. There was a book decades ago that hypothesized functional dragons that were basically blimps, they stored hydrogen and that was also the fuel for the flames.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

There was a book decades ago that hypothesized functional dragons that were basically blimps, they stored hydrogen and that was also the fuel for the flames.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0j0Bjy6hFc

https://egscomics.com/comic/2011-04-26

Cosmos in 1980 and Flight of Dragons in 1982 taught me everything I needed to know about physics

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14 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0j0Bjy6hFc

Cosmos in 1980 and Flight of Dragons in 1982 taught me everything I needed to know about physics

The Flight of Dragons looks pretty good, I'll have to watch.

I recall one on one of the edutainment channels that was CGI/live action pseudo-palo/biology/history of dragons.

I'll have to look up the Cosmos one.

 

14 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I was looking (in the wrong story) for that lampshading reference, thanks.

 

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1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Actually, Abraham never saw the scale and was not really aware the "diamond" is not diamond. Maybe his mentor knew ... the one killed by werewolf.

Forgot that detail that he found his master's "diamond" thought he had created it. Someone at some point ought to have known, although handwave reasons it's entirely natural in some universe is possible. Ever since it has been shown/said to be green, I've been thinking "really an emerald", but it is possible it is a green diamond or some other mineral.

Technically, it's crystal formation around a dense core.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Of course, it's support, not proof. Existence of horse doesn't prove existence of unicorn, despite their similarity.

Shush!, My granddaughter might hear you.

Unicorns are no weirder than narwhals.

Narwhals tooths can't be used to detect and neutralize poisons. Or, rather, they can and was, but they don't.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Far fetched compared to what? Human superheroes? Fairies? Pokemons?

Had in mind the ability to fly. There was a book decades ago that hypothesized functional dragons that were basically blimps, they stored hydrogen and that was also the fuel for the flames.

So what if wings alone shouldn't be enough to fly by physics alone. Even Nanase's small fairy form shouldn't be able to fly, let alone Vlad, dragons or ponies.

Note that EVERYTHING WHICH I MENTIONED does have ability to fly. Superman can fly, and quite a lot of other superheroes. Fairies can fly (and they rarely need to flap their wings for that). And there is quite a lot of flying pokemons as well, including several which LACK wings.

Isn't problem in stories where dragons are magical.

(Although I also liked the "blimps" explanation.)

28 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I recall one on one of the edutainment channels that was CGI/live action pseudo-palo/biology/history of dragons.

 

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35 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

A mineral, diamond or emerald, for instance, is generally a crystal formation. A few, like obsidian, are amorphous.

So, if you ingest poison, you plan to wait around for unicorn horn to cure you?

Ponies can fly. That's what trebuchets are for.

Your YouTube link is the show I remembered. I recognize the dragon vs T-Rex battle.

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12 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

A mineral, diamond or emerald, for instance, is generally a crystal formation. A few, like obsidian, are amorphous.

They, however, tend to not be a formation AROUND something. Ice and salt are known to make crystal formations around a core. Also, amber can form around something, but is not typical example of crystal formation, as it's first formed and only later crystallizes.

12 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

So, if you ingest poison, you plan to wait around for unicorn horn to cure you?

I plan to NOT ingest poison. But there are poisons for which unicorn horn would be only option.

12 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Ponies can fly. That's what trebuchets are for.

Well, sure, but that kind of flight tends to be quite short and ballistic. The option to just load the ponies into airplane also usually don't count (found example with horses). However, the ponies Adrian referred to probably fly using magic. Or friendship. Or is that OF friendship?

12 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Your YouTube link is the show I remembered. I recognize the dragon vs T-Rex battle.

You're welcome. :)

(Wasn't hard to find, actually. Shows on top for "dragon documentary".)

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On 8/31/2019 at 5:37 AM, hkmaly said:

it would also not solve the issue of "all green hair color should have same source" we mentioned

Occam's Razor is not a law. We should tentatively assume that all green hair color has the same source, until we find some reason to think otherwise. However it's a very weak assumption, and it's about the limits of our understanding more than about the reality we're trying to understand.

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49 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:
On 8/31/2019 at 1:37 PM, hkmaly said:

it would also not solve the issue of "all green hair color should have same source" we mentioned

Occam's Razor is not a law. We should tentatively assume that all green hair color has the same source, until we find some reason to think otherwise. However it's a very weak assumption, and it's about the limits of our understanding more than about the reality we're trying to understand.

Of course it's weak assumption, but on the level of wild speculation we moved on in referred discussion it's relatively strong.

I mean, seriously, we have sane options: Liz has mysterious hair as was just explained, or Liz is dyeing her hair and keeps it secret from her best friend.

Then we have crazy options like Liz being part dragon ... but still, AT LEAST this would be related to Ellen also having green hair due to (presumably) being part dragon now.

And then we have completely crazy options like Liz being part plant, which is not related to anything in EGS at all. Well, ok, with exception of non-canon story parodying pokemon.

Of course, just because some option is crazy doesn't mean it can't turn out to be true. In fact, it happened often enough for Niels Bohr to once comment "We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."

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1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

Occam's Razor is not a law. We should tentatively assume that all green hair color has the same source, until we find some reason to think otherwise. However it's a very weak assumption, and it's about the limits of our understanding more than about the reality we're trying to understand.

"Occam's Razor, a hairy assumption"

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17 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Of course, just because some option is crazy doesn't mean it can't turn out to be true. In fact, it happened often enough for Niels Bohr to once comment "We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."

:) Meow. Or not. I can't decide.

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