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Tom Sewell

Monday, September 9, 2019

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If Ellen repeatedly copies bird forms for the purpose of gaining the ability to fly, it would be quite credible for Magic to give her a spell that provides bird form, but not such that she can fly without magic - AND ALSO provides a magical ability to fly.

Birds are somewhat fragile-boned as compared to non-flying animals of similar size. And the square-cube law says that a human-size flyer (without magic) would have to be really really light and flimsy for its size.

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13 hours ago, Scotty said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Yes, however that "only form I know how to fly with" seems quite specific. Which is why I think she can actually fly in other forms as well, despite possibly not trying it yet.

Maybe she has tried, like maybe she thought that just having her antennae out would be enough to use telekinesis.  It's quite possible that some forms allow her to use her telekinesis in different ways, and the strength of it is also determined by form, like in Sister, Grace was able to grab the goo tendrils with just her antennae out, but it was putting heavy strain on her to keep hold until she transformed into the Jeremy/Cat/Squirrel legion form, so maybe that legion form might have been better suited for grabing stuff, but not for flying, Omega form might be better for flight, but not lifting stuff.

I think that the Jeremy/Cat/Squirrel legion form was just most powerful form she had at that point, only getting Omega later, and that Omega is better for both flight and lifting (after all, her flying is just form of telekinesis) and that she might be able to fly in Jeremy/Cat/Squirrel legion form.

13 hours ago, Scotty said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

However, note that the guardian form included lot of abilities including flying in formation. It's possible that copying a bird will make Ellen technically able to fly but not good enough without training.

The guardian form is an extreme case in that it's the only form that Ellen's copied that's allowed her to also use the form's abilities.  Ellen's spell might simply be unable to copy a bird's internal structure to allow her to fly without magic assistance.

Also possible, yes.

13 hours ago, Scotty said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Note: Besides the possibility it will work, there is another reason to try: with how the magic works, trying to copy anything that flies might be fastest way to get flying spell of her own.

There is that possibility too, yes. Actually that does raise the question of did Ellen stop dreaming about being a superhero as part of her effort in creating a new identity for herself? Seems like she should have been able to get something related to that aspect of Elliot if she didn't.

Considering part of those dreams was saving pretty girls like reporter Sarah (and in general, dreaming about flying is supposed to be dreaming about sex) it's possible that aspect of her got weaker when she got Nanase.

13 hours ago, Scotty said:

Though I'm pretty sure Dan mentioned that he wanted Elliot and Ellen to differ in the kinds of spells they got, so Ellen might be doomed to never fly aga...oh wait!

Yeah :)

Flying is sort of power lot of people want, and when part of the cast has flying powers you can easily get into situation where it's necessary to split the party just because of that ... I find more likely Dan will find way how to make everyone flying but with each spell little different. We are at 4/8 now. Tedd might actually get a broom :), while Susan might get ability to teleport where her fairy is ... and Justin might get Hulk's jumps.

 

6 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

If Ellen repeatedly copies bird forms for the purpose of gaining the ability to fly, it would be quite credible for Magic to give her a spell that provides bird form, but not such that she can fly without magic - AND ALSO provides a magical ability to fly.

I was thinking Magic would give her spell that provides bird form AND ability to fly in that form using magic.

6 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Birds are somewhat fragile-boned as compared to non-flying animals of similar size. And the square-cube law says that a human-size flyer (without magic) would have to be really really light and flimsy for its size.

Yes. Also, significant part of weight would need to be in wings AND muscles moving them.

Nanase's fairy is pretty light and small ... but her wings are still too small. Wings like this can work for butterfly and insects, but those are even smaller and lighter than Nanase's fairy. Therefore, Nanase's fairy still needs magic to fly.

(Not speaking about the fact that the fairy spends lot of time in air in upright position, where the wings wouldn't be able to provide any lift. Also, in general, it's very hard to fly directly up, unless you have rocket engine at least.)

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