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Tom Sewell

Monday, September 9, 2019

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Hmm, well a bird (the Peregrine Falcon) is the fastest moving animal known, able to power dive at more than a third of the speed of sound . . .

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Now would be good time for both Nanase and Grace to just start levitating. Before Ashley get's herself distracted by another free association.

Hmmm ... Grace specifically can't transform to bird. Like, she can get feathers and wings, but not hollow bird bones, at least not until someone teaches her such form with something else than TF gun. Also, she would probably need to start the transformation from her squirrel form to have weight usable for flying without magic even WITH hollow bones. (Or maybe if she starts from half-squirrel and transform big part of body into wings?)

BTW, Grace, really, those air quotes ... you DO remember you are allowed to lie? Not like Ancients on griffin's half of world.

2 hours ago, ijuin said:

Hmm, well a bird (the Peregrine Falcon) is the fastest moving animal known, able to power dive at more than a third of the speed of sound . . .

Meanwhile, angel Nanase might reach similar speed while slaloming between trees. And while we don't really have any way to guess Grace's speed, she looks fast as well.

(BTW, Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum and Phooey traveled much faster. Granted, not on their own power, but still :) ... possibly fastest non-humans so far: humans reached higher speed on Apollo 10.)

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It's odd that terminal velocity came up in the commentary. The question was speed for scanning the ground. Birds are more than adequate, albeit, with higher visual acuity, they can actually do much better than we can. A better way of stating it would be "A bird-like platform is more than adequate for eyeballs trying to acquire a target", and in fact, we use small fliers for cameras and photo/video recon.

Edited by Darth Fluffy
revert edit

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27 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Now would be good time for both Nanase and Grace to just start levitating. Before Ashley get's herself distracted by another free association.

I can't really blame her, she only knows about Nanase's fairy doll, she doesn't know what else Nanase can do, so when she heard that Nanase was flying around searching for them, it'd be easy to assume that she was using a fairy doll.

In which case, yes this is a good time for Nanase to start levitating, that's what the party is for after all.

27 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Hmmm ... Grace specifically can't transform to bird. Like, she can get feathers and wings, but not hollow bird bones, at least not until someone teaches her such form with something else than TF gun. Also, she would probably need to start the transformation from her squirrel form to have weight usable for flying without magic even WITH hollow bones. (Or maybe if she starts from half-squirrel and transform big part of body into wings?)

Grace actually would need to transform into her omega form anyway before she could fly (unless Dan decides to show us that Grace can fly in human form, we only seen her fly in her omega form). As far as explaining how she can fly in that form, if she's worried that saying she can do telekinesis might raise the wrong questions, then she could simply say the form is like Elliot's Cheerleadra for, and she just likes having tails and fur. However....

34 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

BTW, Grace, really, those air quotes ... you DO remember you are allowed to lie? Not like Ancients on griffin's half of world.

Maybe she's doing that intentionally in protest that she has to keep what she really is a secret, we know she doesn't like it and while we do know she's worried about how someone might react to learning it, I don't think that's completely made her stop wanting to tell people.

 

 

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59 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

But what is the airspeed of an African Grace carrying a coconut?

Are you suggesting that Grace is migratory? 

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16 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Are you suggesting that Grace is migratory? 

I know that there is a difference in airspeed between European and African Graces. An unladen African Grace has less air resistance and weight issues than one carrying a coconut. Thus it is better able to evade any possible sheep in its flight path.

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1 minute ago, Tom Sewell said:

What about fire sheep?

There is a lot less economic opportunity in self-immolating ovines than there is in ones with air travel capacity. Also, it has been difficult to find sheep interested in developing the practice.

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Just now, The Old Hack said:

There is a lot less economic opportunity in self-immolating ovines than there is in ones with air travel capacity. Also, it has been difficult to find sheep interested in developing the practice.

There's also the fact that Grace is fireproof and therefore flying fire-sheep should not impede an African Grace anymore than regular flying sheep even if fire-sheep should exist.

Just now, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Hokey Smokes Grace, don't transform into a bird

Transform into a Flying Squirrel

How close is Moperville to Frostbite Falls?

Does Tedd have any moose forms?

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Yay for starburst background in panel seven! The traditional Dan starburst, no less. (Though in this case it may be doubling as speed-lines.)

8 hours ago, ijuin said:

Hmm, well a bird (the Peregrine Falcon) is the fastest moving animal known, able to power dive at more than a third of the speed of sound . . .

If the point of the speed is how much ground you can cover (as is the case when trying to search a large area for missing friends), the speed one can achieve downwards doesn't seem particularly relevant...

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8 hours ago, ijuin said:

Hmm, well a bird (the Peregrine Falcon) is the fastest moving animal known, able to power dive at more than a third of the speed of sound . . .

Still doesn't hold a candle to the Millennium Falcon, which can go point five past lightspeed and once did the Kessel run in twelve parsec. :danshiftyeyes:

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18 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

Still doesn't hold a candle to the Millennium Falcon, which can go point five past lightspeed and once did the Kessel run in twelve parsec. :danshiftyeyes:

Yes, but that is with hyperdrive. The Peregrine Falcon achieves its speed with gravity plus its own muscles.

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Just now, ijuin said:

Yes, but that is with hyperdrive. The Peregrine Falcon achieves its speed with gravity plus its own muscles.

Don't hate the Millennium Falcon just because your Peregrine was too lazy to evolve a hyperdrive.

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13 hours ago, Scotty said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Now would be good time for both Nanase and Grace to just start levitating. Before Ashley get's herself distracted by another free association.

I can't really blame her, she only knows about Nanase's fairy doll, she doesn't know what else Nanase can do, so when she heard that Nanase was flying around searching for them, it'd be easy to assume that she was using a fairy doll.

In which case, yes this is a good time for Nanase to start levitating, that's what the party is for after all.

Yes, it's definitely not Ashley's fault. I would blame Nanase.

13 hours ago, Scotty said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Hmmm ... Grace specifically can't transform to bird. Like, she can get feathers and wings, but not hollow bird bones, at least not until someone teaches her such form with something else than TF gun. Also, she would probably need to start the transformation from her squirrel form to have weight usable for flying without magic even WITH hollow bones. (Or maybe if she starts from half-squirrel and transform big part of body into wings?)

Grace actually would need to transform into her omega form anyway before she could fly (unless Dan decides to show us that Grace can fly in human form, we only seen her fly in her omega form). As far as explaining how she can fly in that form, if she's worried that saying she can do telekinesis might raise the wrong questions, then she could simply say the form is like Elliot's Cheerleadra for, and she just likes having tails and fur. However....

I think she is technically capable of flying in other forms, as she can use telekinesis in other forms. But the difference in efficiency might be enough she can't lift herself up in other forms yet.

However, I was presenting option that in bird form, Grace might be able to fly without magic. Maybe.

13 hours ago, Scotty said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

BTW, Grace, really, those air quotes ... you DO remember you are allowed to lie? Not like Ancients on griffin's half of world.

Maybe she's doing that intentionally in protest that she has to keep what she really is a secret, we know she doesn't like it and while we do know she's worried about how someone might react to learning it, I don't think that's completely made her stop wanting to tell people.

Hmmm ... makes sense.

12 hours ago, The Old Hack said:
12 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

What about fire sheep?

There is a lot less economic opportunity in self-immolating ovines than there is in ones with air travel capacity. Also, it has been difficult to find sheep interested in developing the practice.

It's not about self-immolation and Dan already found one.

8 hours ago, ChronosCat said:
16 hours ago, ijuin said:

Hmm, well a bird (the Peregrine Falcon) is the fastest moving animal known, able to power dive at more than a third of the speed of sound . . .

If the point of the speed is how much ground you can cover (as is the case when trying to search a large area for missing friends), the speed one can achieve downwards doesn't seem particularly relevant...

Very good point.

7 hours ago, The Old Hack said:
7 hours ago, ijuin said:

Yes, but that is with hyperdrive. The Peregrine Falcon achieves its speed with gravity plus its own muscles.

Don't hate the Millennium Falcon just because your Peregrine was too lazy to evolve a hyperdrive.

To be fair, neither did Millennium Falcon ; it was constructed by humans.

Hmmm ... I do remember few biotechnologic ship, but I'm not sure if any of those actually EVOLVED hyperdrive ...

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Just now, hkmaly said:

I would blame Nanase.

Why? Because she didn't offer more than just "I'm trying to make a fairy doll at Elliot's location"?

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I think she is technically capable of flying in other forms, as she can use telekinesis in other forms. But the difference in efficiency might be enough she can't lift herself up in other forms yet.

At this time, all we have to go by is that Grace has said that her Omega form (and it is called that according to the title of this page), is the only form she knows how to fly with. Dan hasn't shown her flying it any other forms so we can't be certain that she has other flying forms.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

However, I was presenting option that in bird form, Grace might be able to fly without magic. Maybe.

It depends on if the bird form has proper bird anatomy, like hollow bones, but at the moment Grace doesn't have the means to get such a form and any close approximation wouldn't be able to fly without magic(as stated in commentary).

There was the question of if Ellen could just copy a bird like she copied Brownie and be able to fly, but it might just result in an inaccurate copy that doesn't have hollow bones and thus unable to fly. I don't really expect Dan to have Ellen make any attempts considering that should have been one of the first things she'd have thought of especially after finding out Elliot could fly, she loved being able to fly while she was using Nanase's guardian form, she must have wanted to find other ways of getting to fly again, and we know copying Grace, or Elliot's cheerleadra form won't do it.

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As the Monty Python and the Holy Grail scene says, it's a question of weight ratios. Sustained muscle-powered flight requires at least double the power-to-weight ratio of the average non-obese adult human, plus the majority of that muscle power has to go into the propulsion (i.e. you want the strongest muscles to be the ones moving your arms/wings rather than your legs where humans have them--humans having their legs as the strongest group of muscles is why most serious attempts at human-muscle-powered flight use leg power).

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7 hours ago, Scotty said:
9 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I would blame Nanase.

Why? Because she didn't offer more than just "I'm trying to make a fairy doll at Elliot's location"?

I mean, as long as we want point fingers who's fault is that ... you said you can't blame Ashley, as if someone was blaming her.

7 hours ago, Scotty said:
9 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I think she is technically capable of flying in other forms, as she can use telekinesis in other forms. But the difference in efficiency might be enough she can't lift herself up in other forms yet.

At this time, all we have to go by is that Grace has said that her Omega form (and it is called that according to the title of this page), is the only form she knows how to fly with. Dan hasn't shown her flying it any other forms so we can't be certain that she has other flying forms.

Yes, however that "only form I know how to fly with" seems quite specific. Which is why I think she can actually fly in other forms as well, despite possibly not trying it yet.

7 hours ago, Scotty said:
9 hours ago, hkmaly said:

However, I was presenting option that in bird form, Grace might be able to fly without magic. Maybe.

It depends on if the bird form has proper bird anatomy, like hollow bones, but at the moment Grace doesn't have the means to get such a form and any close approximation wouldn't be able to fly without magic(as stated in commentary).

I already linked that page and that's why "maybe". However note that when Dan said the form wouldn't be able to fly without magic, he was talking about TF-gun based form applied to person, including the size change limits ... I specifically mentioned that Grace would need to start smaller if she wants chance to fly without magic.

7 hours ago, Scotty said:

There was the question of if Ellen could just copy a bird like she copied Brownie and be able to fly, but it might just result in an inaccurate copy that doesn't have hollow bones and thus unable to fly. I don't really expect Dan to have Ellen make any attempts considering that should have been one of the first things she'd have thought of especially after finding out Elliot could fly, she loved being able to fly while she was using Nanase's guardian form, she must have wanted to find other ways of getting to fly again, and we know copying Grace, or Elliot's cheerleadra form won't do it.

Wait, those are all good reason why she SHOULD've tried that already ... so why do you not expect Dan to show it?

Seriously, Dan greatly underrepresents the amount of experiments main cast would do. They have school, they don't work in diamond mines whole day. Plenty of time for trying lot of stuff.

However, note that the guardian form included lot of abilities including flying in formation. It's possible that copying a bird will make Ellen technically able to fly but not good enough without training.

Note: Besides the possibility it will work, there is another reason to try: with how the magic works, trying to copy anything that flies might be fastest way to get flying spell of her own.

4 hours ago, ijuin said:

As the Monty Python and the Holy Grail scene says, it's a question of weight ratios. Sustained muscle-powered flight requires at least double the power-to-weight ratio of the average non-obese adult human, plus the majority of that muscle power has to go into the propulsion (i.e. you want the strongest muscles to be the ones moving your arms/wings rather than your legs where humans have them--humans having their legs as the strongest group of muscles is why most serious attempts at human-muscle-powered flight use leg power).

I'm pretty sure that's simplification, but, again, Grace might reach this by going lighter: her squirrel form is much lighter than her human form.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

I mean, as long as we want point fingers who's fault is that ... you said you can't blame Ashley, as if someone was blaming her.

You could blame the situation she found herself in, she was trying to be a good person by try to repect people's privacy by not asking questions that they might not be comfortable answering. It may have thrown Nanase off he expectations, but you gotta respect Ashley's restraint there.

Just now, hkmaly said:

Yes, however that "only form I know how to fly with" seems quite specific. Which is why I think she can actually fly in other forms as well, despite possibly not trying it yet.

Maybe she has tried, like maybe she thought that just having her antennae out would be enough to use telekinesis.  It's quite possible that some forms allow her to use her telekinesis in different ways, and the strength of it is also determined by form, like in Sister, Grace was able to grab the goo tendrils with just her antennae out, but it was putting heavy strain on her to keep hold until she transformed into the Jeremy/Cat/Squirrel legion form, so maybe that legion form might have been better suited for grabing stuff, but not for flying, Omega form might be better for flight, but not lifting stuff.

Just now, hkmaly said:

However, note that the guardian form included lot of abilities including flying in formation. It's possible that copying a bird will make Ellen technically able to fly but not good enough without training.

The guardian form is an extreme case in that it's the only form that Ellen's copied that's allowed her to also use the form's abilities.  Ellen's spell might simply be unable to copy a bird's internal structure to allow her to fly without magic assistance.

34 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Note: Besides the possibility it will work, there is another reason to try: with how the magic works, trying to copy anything that flies might be fastest way to get flying spell of her own.

There is that possibility too, yes. Actually that does raise the question of did Ellen stop dreaming about being a superhero as part of her effort in creating a new identity for herself? Seems like she should have been able to get something related to that aspect of Elliot if she didn't.

Though I'm pretty sure Dan mentioned that he wanted Elliot and Ellen to differ in the kinds of spells they got, so Ellen might be doomed to never fly aga...oh wait!

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