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Tom Sewell

Friday September 20, 2019

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21 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Magus split early (literally) but Helena and Demetrius were around for the karaoke contest. 

While they weren't actually at the party itself, Mr. Sciuridae and Grace's "siblings" got in touch with Grace the morning of her birthday, and that was important to how the party went.

Grace's Birthday Party is my favorite storyline, and I have re-read it many times. I think the fact that I forgot Helena and Demetrius had appeared again after Magus left goes to show exactly how (un)important they were to the rest of the story.

And just like the bit with Magus, the bit with Grace's siblings was over before the party began (as you mention). So unless you're suggesting there might be party crashers that only show up for a short time then leave the party early, I'm not sure how Grace's siblings (or Magus) are relevant to the issue of the story potentially winding up with too many characters that need panel time.

20 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Are you sure it wasn't precognition?

This might just be a matter of semantics, but Immortals technically don't have precognition. Jerrry's term was virtually clairvoyant; I can't remember where else this ability has been mentioned, but I'm pretty sure there were always qualifiers. My understanding is that they their predictions are based entirely on information they already know, they just know a lot of information and have the ability to process it in ways humans (and modern computers) can't.

18 hours ago, Scotty said:

Heka would have made Pandora realize that she had lied to herself about the whole "elves can't have children" thing which would have made her remember the familiar feelings she felt in Susan and Diane, all Zeus would do is confirm that he felt a similar connection between the two as well....actually wait....this would have to mean that Jerry knew about Diane at the time that he vowed to help Susan, maybe there was more to him suggesting they go to Adrian for help aside from Adrian being more likely to help than Arthur?

I'm not following you here. Why would Jerry have needed to know about Diane? The point where Zeus presumably would have told Pandora what he knew (if she hadn't already figured out the connection between Diane, Susan, and herself) was in Sister III, while the first encounter between Zeus and Diane that we know about was back in Family Tree.

Also, while we don't know how Zeus found out about Diane, the fact that he was wrong about what her relationship with Susan was suggests it was after he reset.

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2 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:
20 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Are you sure it wasn't precognition?

This might just be a matter of semantics, but Immortals technically don't have precognition. Jerrry's term was virtually clairvoyant; I can't remember where else this ability has been mentioned, but I'm pretty sure there were always qualifiers. My understanding is that they their predictions are based entirely on information they already know, they just know a lot of information and have the ability to process it in ways humans (and modern computers) can't.

Precognition can be thought of as mental time travel into the future, and, as the Word of Dan stated long ago in one of the Q & As, time travel will never be part of EGS. Never, never, never, until perhaps it is.

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13 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The party happens two weeks after the magic reset. If Edward and Arthur didn't talked in that time, one of them is very sloppy in  their job and will be fired. Just because WE didn't see that talk, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I said "face to face" though, they could easily talk over the phone.

13 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Remember that Tedd though he wouldn't be able to notice anything that could get around the defenses Edward set up. Although he obviously underestimated himself at that point.

I think Dan is becoming expert on using being vague as preparations for future story lines.

Dan's really playing the long con if he's saving up to reveal how Edward has the house protected. But it could just be as simple as magic tripwires that leave a special traceable signature when activated, which would probably mean they're either surrounding the house, or inside but currently not active because Tedd's having a party at the moment. people usually only turn on security when no one's going to be home, or everyone's gone to bed.

 

 

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Just now, ChronosCat said:

I'm not following you here. Why would Jerry have needed to know about Diane? The point where Zeus presumably would have told Pandora what he knew (if she hadn't already figured out the connection between Diane, Susan, and herself) was in Sister III, while the first encounter between Zeus and Diane that we know about was back in Family Tree.

Also, while we don't know how Zeus found out about Diane, the fact that he was wrong about what her relationship with Susan was suggests it was after he reset.

He knew who Adrian was, it might be more to do with them having similar auras. How Jerry, or even Zeus would have encountered Diane to begin with really is the mystery sure, but it obviously wasn't New Years Eve because Zeus said he'd been following Susan and Diane for months, why would he be following Diane for that long if he didn't have any past knowledge saying "hey, Susan might have a relative that could use help" and Jerry's vow seemed to include Diane, if it was strictly just for Susan and Nanase then Zeus should have been able to ignore Diane.

It might be possible that Jerry knew everything about Susan and Diane being related to Adrian and Pandora, but chose not say anything because it had to be the right moment for them to learn about it, just like how the WoM chose to only tell Van that he's Tedd's half sibling after sending Tedd back, Jerry might have intentionally left out some info during his reset so that Zeus would only know that there was some connection, but not what that connection was.

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7 hours ago, ChronosCat said:
On 9/21/2019 at 8:19 PM, hkmaly said:

Are you sure it wasn't precognition?

This might just be a matter of semantics, but Immortals technically don't have precognition. Jerrry's term was virtually clairvoyant; I can't remember where else this ability has been mentioned, but I'm pretty sure there were always qualifiers. My understanding is that they their predictions are based entirely on information they already know, they just know a lot of information and have the ability to process it in ways humans (and modern computers) can't.

Pandora said borderline psychic once and I think there was also "practically omniscient" somewhere ... and I think it DOES include some sort of "extrasensory" perception, respective that immortal senses includes some very strong and strange stuff. However, it's true that precognition was bad term, because ...

7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Precognition can be thought of as mental time travel into the future, and, as the Word of Dan stated long ago in one of the Q & As, time travel will never be part of EGS. Never, never, never, until perhaps it is.

... it's quite likely it's not literally about future, that it's only based on current information.

Although I think that based on Dan's reasoning for disallowing time travel, precognition would still be allowed. Just not the strong "can't be changed and is totally reliable" one.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:
22 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The party happens two weeks after the magic reset. If Edward and Arthur didn't talked in that time, one of them is very sloppy in  their job and will be fired. Just because WE didn't see that talk, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I said "face to face" though, they could easily talk over the phone.

How far do you think their offices are?

2 hours ago, Scotty said:
22 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Remember that Tedd though he wouldn't be able to notice anything that could get around the defenses Edward set up. Although he obviously underestimated himself at that point.

I think Dan is becoming expert on using being vague as preparations for future story lines.

Dan's really playing the long con if he's saving up to reveal how Edward has the house protected.

Wouldn't be first time. Hell, look at how long the Lord Tedd story line lasted - oh wait that barely started.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

But it could just be as simple as magic tripwires that leave a special traceable signature when activated, which would probably mean they're either surrounding the house, or inside but currently not active because Tedd's having a party at the moment. people usually only turn on security when no one's going to be home, or everyone's gone to bed.

People usually don't leave security on because it's not able to automatically recognize them. If it IS able to recognize them, it would make sense to leave it on always. Note that Tedd was INSIDE when he was talking about those defenses ... and WITH FRIENDS.

Of course, the security doesn't necessary need to be autofiring quad machine guns, it can be just something alerting Edward and/or DGB about possible problems. I just think that if someone like not-Tengu decided to attack Tedd instead of Nanase, Edward not being home wouldn't help him.

... which takes us back to the list of party crashers. Let's say that the security will alert DGB, Edward wouldn't be reachable (very irresponsible, but, well ...), so they send agent Wolf and Cranium to verify there isn't any problem.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

It might be possible that Jerry knew everything about Susan and Diane being related to Adrian and Pandora, but chose not say anything because it had to be the right moment for them to learn about it, just like how the WoM chose to only tell Van that he's Tedd's half sibling after sending Tedd back, Jerry might have intentionally left out some info during his reset so that Zeus would only know that there was some connection, but not what that connection was.

... that's interesting idea. Like, I don't think he was SURE about it either, but it's possible that, being aware of the possibility that immortals can have children and being nearly two centuries old, he recognized their relationship from aura ... but only told his next incarnation about Susan and Diane and not Adrian.

However, it's also possible that Zeus found Diane by mistake because he was searching based on whatever identification Jerry left to him and he mistook those two for some time ... and decided they must be relatives just based on that.

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11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... it's quite likely it's not literally about future, that it's only based on current information.

Although I think that based on Dan's reasoning for disallowing time travel, precognition would still be allowed. Just not the strong "can't be changed and is totally reliable" one.

It is possible for  realities to be out of sync with each other, as it's highly suspected that the Lord Tedd universe, Second Life Universe and even Magus' Universe are a few years ahead of the main universe, someone as powerful as Pandora could probably be able to look into realities that are similar enough to the main one but a year or two ahead and be like "Yeah, what's going on now could certainly lead to that."

11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

How far do you think their offices are?

At this point, I don't think Edward has an office, aside from a home office that is, most of the time Edward seems to be on business out of town (and quite possibly out of country or maybe even off-planet).

11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Wouldn't be first time. Hell, look at how long the Lord Tedd story line lasted - oh wait that barely started.

But he still mentions it when it sees to fit, there have been a few opportunities where Dan could have elaborated on any home security, like any time there's been a number of people at Tedd's including the current party, we're going to have an unexpected visitor and I honestly don't think Edward would be that proactive to have made preparations ahead of time to allow it.

 

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12 hours ago, Scotty said:
On 9/23/2019 at 0:20 AM, hkmaly said:

... it's quite likely it's not literally about future, that it's only based on current information.

Although I think that based on Dan's reasoning for disallowing time travel, precognition would still be allowed. Just not the strong "can't be changed and is totally reliable" one.

It is possible for  realities to be out of sync with each other, as it's highly suspected that the Lord Tedd universe, Second Life Universe and even Magus' Universe are a few years ahead of the main universe, someone as powerful as Pandora could probably be able to look into realities that are similar enough to the main one but a year or two ahead and be like "Yeah, what's going on now could certainly lead to that."

The question if fairies can visit other realities is still open. The fairy law might be forbidding that.

But otherwise, yes, this would definitely be an option, although quite unreliable.

12 hours ago, Scotty said:
On 9/23/2019 at 0:20 AM, hkmaly said:

How far do you think their offices are?

At this point, I don't think Edward has an office, aside from a home office that is, most of the time Edward seems to be on business out of town (and quite possibly out of country or maybe even off-planet).

I think as a directory of paranormal diplomacy he definitely has one even if he's not using it.

But, I also think he's NOT home all the time, that in standard work hours he's usually in office ... with Lavender ...

12 hours ago, Scotty said:
On 9/23/2019 at 0:20 AM, hkmaly said:

Wouldn't be first time. Hell, look at how long the Lord Tedd story line lasted - oh wait that barely started.

But he still mentions it when it sees to fit, there have been a few opportunities where Dan could have elaborated on any home security, like any time there's been a number of people at Tedd's including the current party, we're going to have an unexpected visitor and I honestly don't think Edward would be that proactive to have made preparations ahead of time to allow it.

He DID mentioned it indirectly.

And as I already implied, the security is set to allow specific people no matter the time.

I think that Dan didn't actually though about it before the first party, but realized something like that makes sense later ... and there wasn't really that good opportunity to mention it since.

Of course, I also think they are using DGB-issued smartphones as opposed to Dan forgetting how insecure using normal phones would be after mentioning ONCE that the line (landline at that time) may be tapped. I might be optimist.

 

 

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Just now, hkmaly said:

He DID mentioned it indirectly.

And as I already implied, the security is set to allow specific people no matter the time.

I think that Dan didn't actually though about it before the first party, but realized something like that makes sense later ... and there wasn't really that good opportunity to mention it since.

It might still not be the kind that requires whitelisting people before they can enter, if it did, then Edward knows more about the people that are able to enter the house than we realize. Adding Diane to the list shouldn't be simply "because she knows the about magic and might be related to Susan", there should be a point where Edward could be like "it's getting too difficult to keep track of everyone coming over here" and just not add anymore.

Just now, hkmaly said:

Of course, I also think they are using DGB-issued smartphones as opposed to Dan forgetting how insecure using normal phones would be after mentioning ONCE that the line (landline at that time) may be tapped. I might be optimist.

And the counterpoint to that is all the stuff that the gang has texted each other with could be easily monitored by Edward if not DGB directly and he hasn't confronted anyone about anything that was being kept from him, so if they are DGB issue, then it probably just means they're shielded from remote access and the only way Edward could get access to their texts is if he confiscates them.

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38 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

He DID mentioned it indirectly.

And as I already implied, the security is set to allow specific people no matter the time.

I think that Dan didn't actually though about it before the first party, but realized something like that makes sense later ... and there wasn't really that good opportunity to mention it since.

It might still not be the kind that requires whitelisting people before they can enter, if it did, then Edward knows more about the people that are able to enter the house than we realize.

Of course. Remember that he has been protecting the main eight from government scrutiny by way of full disclosure. Not only he knows more than you realize, he also already reported it to DGB. Both him and main eight would get into trouble otherwise, because the world is not as nice place as the comics shows.

Compare to Hobbit. The Hobbit, or There and Back Again reads as a children fantasy novel, because it's written from Bilbo's perspective. It would look different if Thorin Oakenshield would be writing it ... or GANDALF. To see some parts of how would Gandald write about it, see the Quest of Erebor.

... I would totally like to read such alternative take of EGS. I guess it could be mostly from Edward's perspective, written as his reports ... with few chapters from Adrian or maybe even Pandora. Of course, it would be full of spoilers for EGS at this point ...

42 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Of course, I also think they are using DGB-issued smartphones as opposed to Dan forgetting how insecure using normal phones would be after mentioning ONCE that the line (landline at that time) may be tapped. I might be optimist.

And the counterpoint to that is all the stuff that the gang has texted each other with could be easily monitored by Edward if not DGB directly and he hasn't confronted anyone about anything that was being kept from him, so if they are DGB issue, then it probably just means they're shielded from remote access and the only way Edward could get access to their texts is if he confiscates them.

Yeah we already talked about that.

He's experienced agent. Nothing they already texted was THAT serious. It's much logical for him to hide the fact he's monitoring the phones and wait when it WILL be serious.

However, my point here was that the phones MUST be protected from anyone ELSE than DGB to eavesdrop.

 

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1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

He's experienced agent. Nothing they already texted was THAT serious. It's much logical for him to hide the fact he's monitoring the phones and wait when it WILL be serious.

There's still the text that Sarah sent Elliot that Grace insisted that Tedd and her could take care of, Edward's just going to take Grace at face value and not try to find out if she's keeping something from him? It just seems odd that that someone who's supposed to be able to keep tabs on lots of things is being kept out of the loop so easily in regards to what the Main Eight does.

Unless of course, he's intentionally not intruding on their lives and only stepping in when they come to him or when something strange is happening, like with Painted Black, Sister 2, New and Old Flames, Family Tree and for the stuff that happened in Date at the Mall, they either went to him for help, called him, or attempted to call him, the first Sister arc had him come home to a hungry Jeremy and no Grace so Edward had reason to be concerned and sought them out, and then in Sister 3, he only came home because he read about the lights in the sky and what happened at the mall, heck I'm surprised he didn't try to get answers from Susan since her description was on the news.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

There's still the text that Sarah sent Elliot that Grace insisted that Tedd and her could take care of, Edward's just going to take Grace at face value and not try to find out if she's keeping something from him? It just seems odd that that someone who's supposed to be able to keep tabs on lots of things is being kept out of the loop so easily in regards to what the Main Eight does.

Unless of course, he's intentionally not intruding on their lives and only stepping in when they come to him or when something strange is happening, like with Painted Black, Sister 2, New and Old Flames, Family Tree and for the stuff that happened in Date at the Mall, they either went to him for help, called him, or attempted to call him, the first Sister arc had him come home to a hungry Jeremy and no Grace so Edward had reason to be concerned and sought them out, and then in Sister 3, he only came home because he read about the lights in the sky and what happened at the mall, heck I'm surprised he didn't try to get answers from Susan since her description was on the news.

We do not know a whole lot of detail about Edward's past, but we do know that his breakup with Noriko was work related; she chose career over family. He chose to be a parent to their child. This would seem to establish his priorities, and it would not be out of character to give his son and his friends a measure of space to be kids. so "not intruding on their lives and only stepping in when they come to him or when something strange is happening" makes sense.

He's probably figured out that he'll get more out of them if he is approachable and lets them tell him. People clam up when they feel they have to defend their privacy.

 

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40 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

He's probably figured out that he'll get more out of them if he is approachable and lets them tell him. People clam up when they feel they have to defend their privacy.

So there is no chance whatsoever that, before this party when he would be conveniently out of the way, Edward had his house wired with the most subtle and discrete audio and video recording devices known to the FBI?

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2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So there is no chance whatsoever that, before this party when he would be conveniently out of the way, Edward had his house wired with the most subtle and discrete audio and video recording devices known to the FBI?

If it was, Edward's gonna facepalm so hard when he gets to the part where Grace disregards his suggestion to not say anything about being part alien to Ashley.

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I can believe that Tedd doesn't know the house is bugged by DGB, but I'll never believe he hasn't guessed it is (partial evidence uncovered because his expertise isn't far behind state-of-the-art optional).

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9 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
11 hours ago, Scotty said:

Unless of course, he's intentionally not intruding on their lives and only stepping in when they come to him or when something strange is happening, like with Painted Black, Sister 2, New and Old Flames, Family Tree and for the stuff that happened in Date at the Mall, they either went to him for help, called him, or attempted to call him, the first Sister arc had him come home to a hungry Jeremy and no Grace so Edward had reason to be concerned and sought them out, and then in Sister 3, he only came home because he read about the lights in the sky and what happened at the mall, heck I'm surprised he didn't try to get answers from Susan since her description was on the news.

We do not know a whole lot of detail about Edward's past, but we do know that his breakup with Noriko was work related; she chose career over family. He chose to be a parent to their child. This would seem to establish his priorities, and it would not be out of character to give his son and his friends a measure of space to be kids. so "not intruding on their lives and only stepping in when they come to him or when something strange is happening" makes sense.

He's probably figured out that he'll get more out of them if he is approachable and lets them tell him. People clam up when they feel they have to defend their privacy.

There is also this, yes.

Or the compromise: he may know more than they think, BUT by pretending not to, he's giving space to them. Not only he will get more information in long run, it's good for his relationship with his son.

8 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So there is no chance whatsoever that, before this party when he would be conveniently out of the way, Edward had his house wired with the most subtle and discrete audio and video recording devices known to the FBI?

No chance he was waiting until this party. Those recording devices were already there before Grace's birthday party. Also, only the paranormal division of FBI knows about THESE devices. Might be magic-based and/or Uryuom origin.

5 hours ago, Scotty said:

If it was, Edward's gonna facepalm so hard when he gets to the part where Grace disregards his suggestion to not say anything about being part alien to Ashley.

Yes he will. And, as experienced agent, he will not berate Grace for that until he will "find out" about it from some other source than the recording devices.

5 hours ago, Haylo said:

I can believe that Tedd doesn't know the house is bugged by DGB, but I'll never believe he hasn't guessed it is (partial evidence uncovered because his expertise isn't far behind state-of-the-art optional).

Even SARAH knows it's not safe to talk about stuff Edward is not supposed to know in Edward's house.

She may not be aware they should've put their phones away before discussing it as well.

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18 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So there is no chance whatsoever that, before this party when he would be conveniently out of the way, Edward had his house wired with the most subtle and discrete audio and video recording devices known to the FBI?

I have several comments about this. First, you're right, he could do that. Second is, if he did, he is risking his relationship with his kid. Of course, I've seen much worse, but you blow a trust relationship, it can be difficult to recover. My take on it is it would lead to tacit compliance and stuff done elsewhere, where he could not observe. This should sound familiar, it's how most parent/teen relationships end up.

Third, and this is highly subjective, but my view of the FBI and equivalents is that they are more ham handed than public perception and various entertainment media would indicate.

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15 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
On 9/24/2019 at 2:29 PM, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So there is no chance whatsoever that, before this party when he would be conveniently out of the way, Edward had his house wired with the most subtle and discrete audio and video recording devices known to the FBI?

I have several comments about this. First, you're right, he could do that. Second is, if he did, he is risking his relationship with his kid. Of course, I've seen much worse, but you blow a trust relationship, it can be difficult to recover. My take on it is it would lead to tacit compliance and stuff done elsewhere, where he could not observe. This should sound familiar, it's how most parent/teen relationships end up.

He is only risking the relationship if he admits he's viewing the recordings.

As long as Tedd thinks those devices are, for example, just part of home protection, their relationship is safe. I mean, would be safe if Edward would avoid sighting whenever he see Tedd as girl. The relationship is also safe if Tedd won't FIND those devices, but I think that pretending they do something else is more reliable in long term.

Did YOU stopped trusting google/apple when they started recording everything you said?

15 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Third, and this is highly subjective, but my view of the FBI and equivalents is that they are more ham handed than public perception and various entertainment media would indicate.

Considering various entertainment media suggest FBI is using alien technology to control whole planet, they probably are more ham handed :)

... wait. In EGS, DGB CAN and DOES use alien technology ...

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Did YOU stopped trusting google/apple when they started recording everything you said?

I use an Android phone. there are limited options. I have a love/mostly hate relationship with it, and avoid doing things on it. I use it when necessary, calls, navigation, and photos. It doesn't help that I recently replaced a dying phone, and the new one is balls to the wall marketing.

I use Duck, Duck, Go for searches.

You failed to mention Microsoft. They are just as bad. I use MSO365 at work, no choice, and there is much to hate. It is often, uhm, contrafunctional. If that's not a word, it should be, just for them. Freaking Bing whines at me every time I launch an alternate browser. "But weeee could be tracking youuuuu!"

I absolutely hate when a service I like gets purchased by a Big Guy; I know it's going to end up in the crapper.

I have not yet switched to Linux for day to day at home, but it's coming. I game online a lot, so some Fenestrations compatibility is a must.

 

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28 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Did YOU stopped trusting google/apple when they started recording everything you said?

I use an Android phone. there are limited options. I have a love/mostly hate relationship with it, and avoid doing things on it. I use it when necessary, calls, navigation, and photos. It doesn't help that I recently replaced a dying phone, and the new one is balls to the wall marketing.

I use Duck, Duck, Go for searches.

You failed to mention Microsoft. They are just as bad. I use MSO365 at work, no choice, and there is much to hate. It is often, uhm, contrafunctional. If that's not a word, it should be, just for them. Freaking Bing whines at me every time I launch an alternate browser. "But weeee could be tracking youuuuu!"

Oh, right. Forgot that Microsoft also entered market of recording everything people say, in addition to all other spying.

I'm using android. I made sure that it doesn't do ANYTHING when I say "Ok, google" by removing microphone permission from all apps which shouldn't have it. Although I wonder if it really means it's not listening or just not admitting it ...

... and, yes, there are limited options. I suspect everything I'm doing is just symbolical, because steps necessary to actually stop the spying would be too inconvenient.

32 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I have not yet switched to Linux for day to day at home, but it's coming. I game online a lot, so some Fenestrations compatibility is a must.

I am using linux on computer, though. I'm playing games on the phone :)

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