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Tom Sewell

Monday, September 30, 2019

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... ok, I suppose someone MIGHT already mentioned the thing about magic's not-a-change to Ashley when they explained why the artifacts suddenly activated, but still, Grace, you are working hard to tell her ALL secrets ...

(Also, another Elliot's girlfriend who admires Grace for being confident when naked.)

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35 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

(Also, another Elliot's girlfriend who admires Grace for being confident when naked.)

Well, at least Ashley hasn't run upstairs yet like Sarah did when she saw Ellen naked in MV5.

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2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

(Also, another Elliot's girlfriend who admires Grace for being confident when naked.)

Well, at least Ashley hasn't run upstairs yet like Sarah did when she saw Ellen naked in MV5.

Considering she didn't saw Ellen naked yet it's not exactly comparable.

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6 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
14 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Considering she didn't saw Ellen naked yet it's not exactly comparable.

Yes, Sarah did see Ellen undressed here, and immediately ran upstairs here.

ASHLEY didn't saw Ellen naked yet.

(Also, as seen in the "ran upstairs" link, she wasn't completely naked ...)

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Just now, hkmaly said:

... ok, I suppose someone MIGHT already mentioned the thing about magic's not-a-change to Ashley when they explained why the artifacts suddenly activated, but still, Grace, you are working hard to tell her ALL secrets ...

Seems reasonable to think that if Ashley already knew that something happened with Magic, that it wouldn't be a big deal mentioning this as a possible side effect as well.

Besides, once the whole "I'm part alien!" was out, there wouldn't really be much else that would be more of a secret.

 

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12 hours ago, Scotty said:
18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... ok, I suppose someone MIGHT already mentioned the thing about magic's not-a-change to Ashley when they explained why the artifacts suddenly activated, but still, Grace, you are working hard to tell her ALL secrets ...

Seems reasonable to think that if Ashley already knew that something happened with Magic, that it wouldn't be a big deal mentioning this as a possible side effect as well.

Yeah, she already knew something happened with magic, but ... did Grace knew she knows?

13 hours ago, Scotty said:

Besides, once the whole "I'm part alien!" was out, there wouldn't really be much else that would be more of a secret.

That's not how secrets work. Knowing bigger secret won't automatically give you right to know all lesser ones.

8 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So is this at least part of the reason why Ashley is not inquisitive?

She is likely to say whatever she feels, so the only way she can keep a secret is by not knowing it in the first place

Considering how bad liar she is, it's possible. She's good enough to not WANT to give away any secret, but she also knew herself and is aware how hard it will be for her, so not knowing is better.

However, this example is more about openly talking about her feelings, that's something different than giving away secrets.

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10 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Yeah, she already knew something happened with magic, but ... did Grace knew she knows?

I would imagine Grace would know since she would likely have known Ashley was with Ellen and Elliot when Nanase mentioned Tedd and Arthur being involved in determining the fate of magic, there was "much recapping" that occurred off panel and Elliot did ask about the magic change being the reason the artifacts activated. Ashley herself also brought it back up when she was told that she'd be learning to use magic with Kevin under Tedd's supervision.

11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

That's not how secrets work. Knowing bigger secret won't automatically give you right to know all lesser ones.

Elliot already decided that Ashley deserved to know everything they knew though, so it's kinda moot what should still be secret to her, and since she'll be spending more time with Tedd, she'll be learning whatever they learn as they go.

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10 hours ago, Scotty said:
22 hours ago, hkmaly said:

That's not how secrets work. Knowing bigger secret won't automatically give you right to know all lesser ones.

Elliot already decided that Ashley deserved to know everything they knew though, so it's kinda moot what should still be secret to her, and since she'll be spending more time with Tedd, she'll be learning whatever they learn as they go.

Yeah ... but for example, I don't think Elliot would tell her Grace is half space alien.

I guess it would be hard to find example of secret worth hiding from her, but I still think it's not good idea to tell her everything immediately.

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6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Yeah ... but for example, I don't think Elliot would tell her Grace is half space alien.

Again though, Ashley wasn't forbidden from learning about that, Arthur (and Edward) just felt that after Ashley got all the weirdness of magic dumped on her, she should get used to that before they go dumping the knowledge of aliens on her.

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15 hours ago, Scotty said:
On 10/1/2019 at 11:09 PM, hkmaly said:

Yeah ... but for example, I don't think Elliot would tell her Grace is half space alien.

Again though, Ashley wasn't forbidden from learning about that, Arthur (and Edward) just felt that after Ashley got all the weirdness of magic dumped on her, she should get used to that before they go dumping the knowledge of aliens on her.

Again: that's your speculation. The way I read it, Edward would prefer if she didn't learned that particular secret, he just realized that they will eventually reveal it by mistake OR something happens which makes that information relevant to Ashley.

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37 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Again: that's your speculation. The way I read it, Edward would prefer if she didn't learned that particular secret, he just realized that they will eventually reveal it by mistake OR something happens which makes that information relevant to Ashley.

He knows that by spending time working with Tedd that she would eventually learn it, he even tells Tedd that he's aware of this, why couldn't he just say "Never tell Ashley that Grace nor the TFG and scanner have alien connections." Yes, Edward says he would rather the number of people who knows be limited as much as possible, but he's not enforcing it in regards to Ashley. This was not a "keep the circle at 8 and we'll be fine" speech

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3 hours ago, Scotty said:
4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Again: that's your speculation. The way I read it, Edward would prefer if she didn't learned that particular secret, he just realized that they will eventually reveal it by mistake OR something happens which makes that information relevant to Ashley.

He knows that by spending time working with Tedd that she would eventually learn it, he even tells Tedd that he's aware of this, why couldn't he just say "Never tell Ashley that Grace nor the TFG and scanner have alien connections." Yes, Edward says he would rather the number of people who knows be limited as much as possible, but he's not enforcing it in regards to Ashley. This was not a "keep the circle at 8 and we'll be fine" speech

I meant that "after Ashley got all the weirdness of magic dumped on her, she should get used to that before they go dumping the knowledge of aliens on her" is your speculation. IMHO, the reason WHY they should've waited with this info as long as possible was the usual " the number of people who knows be limited as much as possible".

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Just now, hkmaly said:

I meant that "after Ashley got all the weirdness of magic dumped on her, she should get used to that before they go dumping the knowledge of aliens on her" is your speculation. IMHO, the reason WHY they should've waited with this info as long as possible was the usual " the number of people who knows be limited as much as possible".

That was Arthur's assessment of Ashley that was making Edward say "you shouldn't say anything right yet" but again there's a difference between "shouldn't" and "can't" which is one is merely a suggestion and the other is a demand and what Edward says does not sound like a demand so Tedd and Grace really have no obligation to keep any of it from Ashley at the party, in fact, they don't have to say they told her already and Edward could just find out later when it seems like an amount of time had gone by for Ashley to find out seems more likely.

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13 hours ago, Scotty said:
17 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I meant that "after Ashley got all the weirdness of magic dumped on her, she should get used to that before they go dumping the knowledge of aliens on her" is your speculation. IMHO, the reason WHY they should've waited with this info as long as possible was the usual " the number of people who knows be limited as much as possible".

That was Arthur's assessment of Ashley that was making Edward say "you shouldn't say anything right yet" but again there's a difference between "shouldn't" and "can't" which is one is merely a suggestion and the other is a demand and what Edward says does not sound like a demand so Tedd and Grace really have no obligation to keep any of it from Ashley at the party

Are we going with RFC 2119 formal definition of SHOULD or is there some other formal definition I'm not aware of? Because informally, "shouldn't" definitely creates obligation, even if not as serious as "must not" (BTW, "can't" would be "not able to", wouldn't it?)

(Also, I don't think Grace did any careful weighting either.)

13 hours ago, Scotty said:

they don't have to say they told her already and Edward could just find out later when it seems like an amount of time had gone by for Ashley to find out seems more likely.

Of course Edward will find out when replaying the recording from party, but he's professional, he won't admit it.

 

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38 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Are we going with RFC 2119 formal definition of SHOULD or is there some other formal definition I'm not aware of? Because informally, "shouldn't" definitely creates obligation, even if not as serious as "must not" (BTW, "can't" would be "not able to", wouldn't it?)

You are basically correct, but it's also dependent on context; and any of them can apply to a variety of situations, moral, ethical, physical, technical, etc. You shouldn't write your password down near your computer is going to be the more accurate, but might be expressed as mustn't or can't as a bit of hyperbole. You must not drink Drain-o is probably the most accurate, in light of the consequences, but might be expressed as shouldn't or can't. (The last being technically inaccurate, you could do it once.)

Someone trying to stick you with an obligation that isn't necessarily yours will probably use should or shouldn't.

Somewhat related is will and shall; colloquially, they are synonyms. In US contract law, will is "Intend to" but is not considered enforceable. I suppose you would have to prove lack of intent. Shall is an enforceable contract clause. Contrawise, the ball will fall, is actually absurd, the ball has no intent, but that would be the normal way to say it. The ball shall fall sounds odd, like the speaker is putting on airs.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Of course Edward will find out when replaying the recording from party, but he's professional, he won't admit it.

Well Sarah's definitely screwed if Edward replays this so called recording as well since she just openly described her spell to Justin.

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2 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

You shouldn't write your password down near your computer is going to be the more accurate

... although it's not the worst you can do ; for example, if the best password you can remember is 123456, you should rather generate better one and write it down.

2 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

The last being technically inaccurate, you could do it once.

Exactly.

2 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Somewhat related is will and shall; colloquially, they are synonyms. In US contract law, will is "Intend to" but is not considered enforceable. I suppose you would have to prove lack of intent. Shall is an enforceable contract clause. Contrawise, the ball will fall, is actually absurd, the ball has no intent, but that would be the normal way to say it. The ball shall fall sounds odd, like the speaker is putting on airs.

... ok, THIS is completely new to me.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Of course Edward will find out when replaying the recording from party, but he's professional, he won't admit it.

Well Sarah's definitely screwed if Edward replays this so called recording as well since she just openly described her spell to Justin.

... you're right. She was so careful when she got it and already forgot. Of course, considering how often she's in Tedd's basement, Edward probably wouldn't do anything unless she wouldn't want to come to Tedd's new lab ...

... sure, she didn't described how it scans even stuff she wouldn't see normally (which is the part Edward would be interested in), but he can reasonably guess that based on what she said.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

... you're right. She was so careful when she got it and already forgot. Of course, considering how often she's in Tedd's basement, Edward probably wouldn't do anything unless she wouldn't want to come to Tedd's new lab ...

Or Edward isn't recording any of this and Dan's not going to go that route, Dan already has to deal with figuring out how to handle when Tedd tells Edward they're genderfluid, it'd just complicate things further if he's also gotta have Edward tell his superiors about Sarah and suddenly one of Tedd's closest friends is being force to work for the FBI and using her ability for dangerous and potentially shady things.

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21 hours ago, Scotty said:
21 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... you're right. She was so careful when she got it and already forgot. Of course, considering how often she's in Tedd's basement, Edward probably wouldn't do anything unless she wouldn't want to come to Tedd's new lab ...

Or Edward isn't recording any of this and Dan's not going to go that route, Dan already has to deal with figuring out how to handle when Tedd tells Edward they're genderfluid, it'd just complicate things further if he's also gotta have Edward tell his superiors about Sarah and suddenly one of Tedd's closest friends is being force to work for the FBI and using her ability for dangerous and potentially shady things.

Then there would be plot hole in the story AND the Chekhov's gun Pandora showed will remain unfired. We KNOW there are hidden parts of the story and they are necessary for it to work. Hopefully, sometime in future those hidden parts will be revealed to make very good story arcs.

However, as I mentioned multiple times, just because Edward is recording it doesn't mean that we will see him doing something with obtained information.

And specifically in this case, I suspect that as long as Sarah works for DGB (and is therefore prevented to start working for someone else), they can wait with those dangerous shady things. They already have agent Cranium for those.

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Sarah would likely be an "apprentice" for the first couple of years if they recruited her anyway. This kind of work requires lots of training.

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9 hours ago, ijuin said:

Sarah would likely be an "apprentice" for the first couple of years if they recruited her anyway. This kind of work requires lots of training.

Yes.

Also, her SPELL requires lot of training before being usable outside Moperville.

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