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The Old Hack

Story Monday December 2, 2019

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Not from same universe but Ellen suggested Kaoli as someone who'd know how to get Magus to his universe so that's a good enough reason to put them together in an arc.

Dan gave us four reference links in his commentary for that page, and it is one of the final comics in Sister 3. And Dan made Ellen say "overdue for a visit". It's only a mere seventeen months later in our time, so I have some hope Kaoli will be the next surprise guest. Connecting her with the door must rely on speculation, but Kaoli is essentially a variation of Nioi, who made her exit through a magical door in Painted Black. Kaoli could logically have the same kind of magic.

Being another furry like Grace and the slightly more humanoid Braixen from Pokémon (Ashley's favorite form to transform herself into in Marker), and Ellen's childhood-friend-from-another-universe, there are at least three of the nine who should be glad to see her.

 

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3 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

You believe Kaoli is from the same universe as Magus? Is there an in-comic reason?

Not that I am aware of, but I've been known to be wrong about that sort of thing.  That being said, I don't think that Lord Tedd would allow a school for powerful mages to exist that wasn't under his total control and nothing in any of the Magus plot lines indicate that.

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1 minute ago, mlooney said:

Not that I am aware of, but I've been known to be wrong about that sort of thing.  That being said, I don't think that Lord Tedd would allow a school for powerful mages to exist that wasn't under his total control and nothing in any of the Magus plot lines indicate that.

Though if it turned out that Magus' "departure" from his world caused Terra to freak out and decide that becoming male would make her stronger, then Terra could be Lord Tedd. BUT then where did General Shade Tail come from? I'd assume that in Magus' world there was no Project Lycanthrope with created Shade Tail and probably no Damien either so that would be contradictory to Terra=Lord Tedd

But it is quite possible that Terra was targeted by Lord Tedd's supposed agenda to kill all "weak" Tedds and Magus getting banished was to get rid of possible obstacles just like how the goo decided Elliot was in the way of killing our Tedd.  Dan stated somewhere (I think twitter) that the demon nuclei (goo) that Ellen destroyed was the closest to succeeding out of all the others sent out so it's probably safe to assume that Terra was able to defend herself in Magus' absence if she was also attacked. In any case Terra being targeted could mean that Nioi/Kaoli might have coordinates or whatever to Magus' universe, heck Nioi supposedly spent a good deal of time searching alternate universes for one that Ellen and Kaoli could share memories of so maybe she was the one that gave Lord Tedd the list of universes to send the demon nuclei to?

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6 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

You believe Kaoli is from the same universe as Magus? Is there an in-comic reason?

Kaoli is anticipated to return

Kaoli knows something about travel between universes

That makes her far more of an "Expert" than any of the Basement Bunch

If I had to ask someone to drive me somewhere in America, and my choices were an adult from Paris who just arrived in the USA today and a nine year old American kid who had only ever driven bumper cars...

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8 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
9 hours ago, Scotty said:

Not from same universe but Ellen suggested Kaoli as someone who'd know how to get Magus to his universe so that's a good enough reason to put them together in an arc.

Dan gave us four reference links in his commentary for that page, and it is one of the final comics in Sister 3. And Dan made Ellen say "overdue for a visit". It's only a mere seventeen months later in our time, so I have some hope Kaoli will be the next surprise guest. Connecting her with the door must rely on speculation, but Kaoli is essentially a variation of Nioi, who made her exit through a magical door in Painted Black. Kaoli could logically have the same kind of magic.

Wouldn't be first time Dan put something in comics before realizing it would be years before he can continue with that ...

Personally, I would hope that we will solve the matter with griffins before returning to Magus.

6 hours ago, Scotty said:
6 hours ago, mlooney said:

Not that I am aware of, but I've been known to be wrong about that sort of thing.  That being said, I don't think that Lord Tedd would allow a school for powerful mages to exist that wasn't under his total control and nothing in any of the Magus plot lines indicate that.

Though if it turned out that Magus' "departure" from his world caused Terra to freak out and decide that becoming male would make her stronger, then Terra could be Lord Tedd. BUT then where did General Shade Tail come from? I'd assume that in Magus' world there was no Project Lycanthrope with created Shade Tail and probably no Damien either so that would be contradictory to Terra=Lord Tedd

Yeah, we didn't saw much of Lord Tedd's universe but it seems much more about technology than Magus's one.

6 hours ago, Scotty said:

But it is quite possible that Terra was targeted by Lord Tedd's supposed agenda to kill all "weak" Tedds and Magus getting banished was to get rid of possible obstacles just like how the goo decided Elliot was in the way of killing our Tedd.  Dan stated somewhere (I think twitter) that the demon nuclei (goo) that Ellen destroyed was the closest to succeeding out of all the others sent out so it's probably safe to assume that Terra was able to defend herself in Magus' absence if she was also attacked. In any case Terra being targeted could mean that Nioi/Kaoli might have coordinates or whatever to Magus' universe, heck Nioi supposedly spent a good deal of time searching alternate universes for one that Ellen and Kaoli could share memories of so maybe she was the one that gave Lord Tedd the list of universes to send the demon nuclei to?

I think you have it backwards. Lord Tedd created the technology to search universes with the goal of finding weak Tedds. Nioi was either one of people using that technology as Tedd's employee, or was using it when Tedd didn't needed it, and that's how she was able to search for the alternate universe Ellen and Kaoli could share ... AFTER Tedd already send demon nuclei to several universes including our Tedd's one.

3 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:
10 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

You believe Kaoli is from the same universe as Magus? Is there an in-comic reason?

Kaoli is anticipated to return

Kaoli knows something about travel between universes

That makes her far more of an "Expert" than any of the Basement Bunch

If I had to ask someone to drive me somewhere in America, and my choices were an adult from Paris who just arrived in the USA today and a nine year old American kid who had only ever driven bumper cars...

There is enough place in most cars to have one person driving it, one navigating and one paying the trip. Just saying.

 

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10 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

You believe Kaoli is from the same universe as Magus? Is there an in-comic reason?

Which Kaoli? There are at least two: the Kaoli from the second life universe, and the Kaoli created by the dewitchery diamond of Nioi's universe. Now that I think of it, there isn't any real reason for the real Ellen and Kaoli of the second life universe to meet the Ellen of the Mopervese and the Kaoli  who Nioi accidentally created. It's the accidental Kaoli who shared the second-life dreams of Ellen whom Ellen was promised to meet.

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13 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
10 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

You believe Kaoli is from the same universe as Magus? Is there an in-comic reason?

Which Kaoli? There are at least two: the Kaoli from the second life universe, and the Kaoli created by the dewitchery diamond of Nioi's universe. Now that I think of it, there isn't any real reason for the real Ellen and Kaoli of the second life universe to meet the Ellen of the Mopervese and the Kaoli  who Nioi accidentally created. It's the accidental Kaoli who shared the second-life dreams of Ellen whom Ellen was promised to meet.

We actually know more about the second life universe than about Lord Tedds. At least in terms of "Ellen would definitely mention this". Specifically, she would DEFINITELY mention dragon sirens.

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

We actually know more about the second life universe than about Lord Tedds. At least in terms of "Ellen would definitely mention this". Specifically, she would DEFINITELY mention dragon sirens.

Dragon sirens certainly need mentioning, but the context would be Magus-Ellen. While M-E could crash this party, he doesn't seem to know squat about the how-to's of universe-hopping, including doors to other worlds. His best reason to crash would be to ask for help getting back to his home.

Of course, there is a chance that Terra, who is, after all, an alternate Tedd and therefore almost certainly a mad scientist, has worked out enough how-to''s to come through that door in the next thrilling comic, coming real soon now, looking for her boy/girlfriend.

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1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

We actually know more about the second life universe than about Lord Tedds. At least in terms of "Ellen would definitely mention this". Specifically, she would DEFINITELY mention dragon sirens.

Dragon sirens certainly need mentioning, but the context would be Magus-Ellen.

... oh. Which reminds me another obvious-in-hindsight reason why second life universe couldn't be Magus's one. Because Magus is Ellen an Terra is Tedd ... and in second universe, Ellen and Tedd looked closer to their major universe counterparts.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Of course, there is a chance that Terra, who is, after all, an alternate Tedd and therefore almost certainly a mad scientist, has worked out enough how-to''s to come through that door in the next thrilling comic, coming real soon now, looking for her boy/girlfriend.

I wonder if Tedd is really exceptional mad scientist or every seer would react the same on getting hands on CMD.

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3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I think you have it backwards. Lord Tedd created the technology to search universes with the goal of finding weak Tedds. Nioi was either one of people using that technology as Tedd's employee, or was using it when Tedd didn't needed it, and that's how she was able to search for the alternate universe Ellen and Kaoli could share ... AFTER Tedd already send demon nuclei to several universes including our Tedd's one.

I didn't say that Nioi created it though, just that it was possible she was using it under orders to search for universes to send the demon nuclei too, and then secretly searched for a universe for Kaoli to "grow up" in.

 

3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Which Kaoli? There are at least two: the Kaoli from the second life universe, and the Kaoli created by the dewitchery diamond of Nioi's universe. Now that I think of it, there isn't any real reason for the real Ellen and Kaoli of the second life universe to meet the Ellen of the Mopervese and the Kaoli  who Nioi accidentally created. It's the accidental Kaoli who shared the second-life dreams of Ellen whom Ellen was promised to meet.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

We actually know more about the second life universe than about Lord Tedds. At least in terms of "Ellen would definitely mention this". Specifically, she would DEFINITELY mention dragon sirens.

I suspect that the Second Life universe Ellen and Kaoli have no idea what's going on in other universes, at least not yet as it would probably take someone from another universe actually approaching them for whatever reason., so I don't expect second life Kaoli to be the one appearing.

 

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If Lord Tedd is a seer/wandmaker, he could have learned about universe hopping by observing Nioi's magic. Nioi might not even be from Lord Tedd's universe. And Lord Tedd by this point might not be living in his home universe.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:
4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I think you have it backwards. Lord Tedd created the technology to search universes with the goal of finding weak Tedds. Nioi was either one of people using that technology as Tedd's employee, or was using it when Tedd didn't needed it, and that's how she was able to search for the alternate universe Ellen and Kaoli could share ... AFTER Tedd already send demon nuclei to several universes including our Tedd's one.

I didn't say that Nioi created it though, just that it was possible she was using it under orders to search for universes to send the demon nuclei too, and then secretly searched for a universe for Kaoli to "grow up" in.

Sure you din't said it, but

11 hours ago, Scotty said:

heck Nioi supposedly spent a good deal of time searching alternate universes for one that Ellen and Kaoli could share memories of so maybe she was the one that gave Lord Tedd the list of universes to send the demon nuclei to?

sounds little like the list for Tedd was just sideefect ...

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I suspect that the Second Life universe Ellen and Kaoli have no idea what's going on in other universes, at least not yet as it would probably take someone from another universe actually approaching them for whatever reason., so I don't expect second life Kaoli to be the one appearing.

Depends how exactly that "second life" stuff works. If it was just memory transfer, yes, but if it was somehow bidirectional, they may remember to share their life with someone from different universe.

11 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

If Lord Tedd is a seer/wandmaker, he could have learned about universe hopping by observing Nioi's magic. Nioi might not even be from Lord Tedd's universe. And Lord Tedd by this point might not be living in his home universe.

That's possible alternative, yes, but personally I would consider more likely Nioi got the universe hopping magic from Tedd. Remember that she used some item to open the gate.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

That's possible alternative, yes, but personally I would consider more likely Nioi got the universe hopping magic from Tedd. Remember that she used some item to open the gate.

Is that glowing sphere a device, or simply an aspect of Nioi's spell, like Ellen's beams? If Lord Tedd could make magical doors like the one Nioi went through, why would he need to send tiny goo cells? Why not send General Shade Tail; who clearly loves to kill?

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44 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

If Lord Tedd could make magical doors like the one Nioi went through, why would he need to send tiny goo cells? Why not send General Shade Tail; who clearly loves to kill?

Possibly because he does not want to kill? The Goo may have thought it had been sent to kill. But perhaps killing other Tedds was never Lord Tedd's intention?

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3 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Possibly because he does not want to kill? The Goo may have thought it had been sent to kill. But perhaps killing other Tedds was never Lord Tedd's intention?

It's hard to say because at one point we have a Lord Tedd who's clearly angered by the fact the goo failed it's objective, but then the next time we see Lord Tedd we're questioning how it's possible for him to be like that.

New theory, there's actually 2 Lord Tedd universes, and the one that sent the goo is already fully corrupted, while Nioi's Tedd hasn't been yet.

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20 minutes ago, Scotty said:

New theory, there's actually 2 Lord Tedd universes, and the one that sent the goo is already fully corrupted, while Nioi's Tedd hasn't been yet.

My own theory: they are both the same. The first time we see him he was in 'battle mode.' (Also his appearance might have been due to 2002 plot inconsistencies.) I have before presented the theory that the reason he is a harsher person is that he did not meet an Elliot alternate in that world, or alternately lost him/her/them. And that his intention was not to 'kill Tedd' but rather to kill 'weak Tedd' -- presumably by forcing the local Tedd to engage in harsh measures to protect his home, friends and loved ones and so learning that he was stronger than he thought. Exactly why I am not certain, but I have a hypothesis that there is some sort of different dimensional menace out there that he wishes to defend against and that strengthening local Tedds in other dimensions is part of his overall strategy. I admit that I do not have much to support this hypothesis, but Edward at least does not seem to think that it was Lord Tedd's intent to simply kill his son.

The Goo was slow, loud and menacing. All things you do NOT want an actual assassin to be. I do not think it was meant to actually kill. Rather, it was intended to provoke Tedd into becoming less timid and more aggressive and assertive.

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37 minutes ago, Scotty said:

It's hard to say because at one point we have a Lord Tedd who's clearly angered by the fact the goo failed it's objective, but then the next time we see Lord Tedd we're questioning how it's possible for him to be like that.

Could be that General Shade Tail is in the background and behind Lord Tedd in the first instance--where Lord Tedd can't see if GST is up to something.  Maybe the General has some power or spell that influences others feelings--like Magus.

Lord Tedd's crusade against "weak" Tedds doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?  We really only have the word of Beta Tedd that that's what Lord Tedd is doing.

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10 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

The Goo was slow, loud and menacing. All things you do NOT want an actual assassin to be. I do not think it was meant to actually kill. Rather, it was intended to provoke Tedd into becoming less timid and more aggressive and assertive.

Excellent points. Was our Tedd the actual target? The Goo never attacked Tedd, or even tried to. That would tend to support the "strengthen the other Tedd's" theory.

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11 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Excellent points. Was our Tedd the actual target? The Goo never attacked Tedd, or even tried to. That would tend to support the "strengthen the other Tedd's" theory.

Attacking his friends doesn't count? To be fair, I don't think that the Goo was initially any more than what it was presented as, a mistake in a chemistry lesson, highlighting Tedd's mad science. The rest was patched on after the fact.

 

17 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Could be that General Shade Tail is in the background and behind Lord Tedd in the first instance--where Lord Tedd can't see if GST is up to something.  Maybe the General has some power or spell that influences others feelings--like Magus.

Lord Tedd's crusade against "weak" Tedds doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?  We really only have the word of Beta Tedd that that's what Lord Tedd is doing.

Hypothesis, Lord Tedd, perhaps because General Shade Tail mandates it, is out to conquer the multiverse, eventually. He does not want a counterpart arising to resist himself. He knows he's a seer, and that they're all potentially powerful. In the early comics, he is always shown with a malevolent expression on his face. He seems angered that his goo did not work.

Many of Dan's characters have changed from their first couple of appearances. I think that reflects Dan developing a vision of who they are, after invoking them initially as a shallow trope. So, yeah, Lord Tedd's whole motivational framework may have changed.

 

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46 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

My own theory: they are both the same. The first time we see him he was in 'battle mode.' (Also his appearance might have been due to 2002 plot inconsistencies.) I have before presented the theory that the reason he is a harsher person is that he did not meet an Elliot alternate in that world, or alternately lost him/her/them. And that his intention was not to 'kill Tedd' but rather to kill 'weak Tedd' -- presumably by forcing the local Tedd to engage in harsh measures to protect his home, friends and loved ones and so learning that he was stronger than he thought. Exactly why I am not certain, but I have a hypothesis that there is some sort of different dimensional menace out there that he wishes to defend against and that strengthening local Tedds in other dimensions is part of his overall strategy. I admit that I do not have much to support this hypothesis, but Edward at least does not seem to think that it was Lord Tedd's intent to simply kill his son.

The Goo was slow, loud and menacing. All things you do NOT want an actual assassin to be. I do not think it was meant to actually kill. Rather, it was intended to provoke Tedd into becoming less timid and more aggressive and assertive.

This makes sense. I'm still going with, "It wasn't planned out at this level of detail" for now, but I can see this scenario working.

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14 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

This makes sense. I'm still going with, "It wasn't planned out at this level of detail" for now, but I can see this scenario working.

Oh, I agree with that. I am merely proposing this as one possible scenario that might convincingly explain what was going on.

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1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

The Goo was slow, loud and menacing. All things you do NOT want an actual assassin to be. I do not think it was meant to actually kill. Rather, it was intended to provoke Tedd into becoming less timid and more aggressive and assertive.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Lord Tedd's crusade against "weak" Tedds doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?  We really only have the word of Beta Tedd that that's what Lord Tedd is doing.

The idea of Lord Tedd trying to motivate other Tedd's to become stronger is something I thought of, what bugs me though is that is doesn't fit the the plot point of General Shade Tail corrupting Lord Tedd. If Lord Tedd was sending those cells out because General Shade Tail was influencing him to do so, but he was intentionally allowing them to fail (and acting angry about it to put up appearances) then that should be an indicator that Lord Tedd knows that General Shade Tail is bad news and so Nioi's venture into the main universe would imply that she doesn't know he knows, because she was acting like she was in the main universe without his knowing.

The idea of multiple Lord Tedds really shouldn't be a surprise, we've seen multiple different versions of Tedd already, each one showing different upbringings but still some similarities (Beta Tedd dating Beta Ellen, Second Life Tedd having a crush on SL Ellen, Our Tedd definitely has strong feelings for Our Elliot) but Our Tedd was also the target of an Immortal's attempt to manipulate the system and who knows how Tedd would have reacted if Voltaire succeeded in killing Elliot, Tedd even thought about what might have been if Elliot had never been there early on. Lord Tedd is probably not entirely unique, in that there are probably more than 1 Tedd who grew up without anyone like Elliot to keep them from doing things they wouldn't have normally done. Some may have turned out OK, but if others ended up with a bad crowd or gave in to the desire to lash out at people that bully them, maybe Nioi saw one of those universes where Tedd had gotten really bad and felt that her Tedd was on a similar path because of General Shade Tail.

 

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1 minute ago, Scotty said:

what bugs me though is that is doesn't fit the the plot point of General Shade Tail corrupting Lord Tedd. If Lord Tedd was sending those cells out because General Shade Tail was influencing him to do so, but he was intentionally allowing them to fail (and acting angry about it to put up appearances) then that should be an indicator that Lord Tedd knows that General Shade Tail is bad news and so Nioi's venture into the main universe would imply that she doesn't know he knows, because she was acting like she was in the main universe without his knowing.

Some of that is assumptive. Maybe that is not what the General was doing. It might have been Lord Tedd's original plan to just provoke other Tedds into seeking strength and the anger in the 2002 drawings could well belong in the 2002 plot pothole. The General might be urging Lord Tedd to be more aggressive, to cause more damage and casualties against some hypothetical gain. Nioi might be opposed to that.

I am not saying that this invalidates your concern, merely that there is more than one potential explanation here.

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