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Tom Sewell

Friday, December 20, 2019

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3 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Can you imagine the horror of going through a life where everyone sees you as human even though you know that you are descended from a rogue god?

I read a story once, can't remember the title or author, wherein much of the world was in the midst of an atheist inquisition. People were being killed for believing that gods might exist. And there was a demigod walking around.

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7 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

So Pandora decided she liked Blaike, assumed a human form and had a child with him, Adrian Raven.

She didn't assume a human form with Blaike though, only when she was out in public, experiencing adventures, and all she really does is make her ears more human looking. In private, she doesn't hide her true self from Blaike.

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10 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So there really are times when you should ask before doing something instead of apologizing after?

This concept seems to be completely alien to a significant portion of humanity

And dogs

And cats (well, actually, in my experience cats generally don't ask or apologize...)

Not speaking about some extraterrestrials ...

1 hour ago, Scotty said:
8 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

So Pandora decided she liked Blaike, assumed a human form and had a child with him, Adrian Raven.

She didn't assume a human form with Blaike though, only when she was out in public, experiencing adventures, and all she really does is make her ears more human looking. In private, she doesn't hide her true self from Blaike.

Considering we only saw shapeshifting from OLD immortals, I would assume that their "natural" form is humanoid, no matter how weird it is. Or ... maybe some fairies long ago, before several resets, decided for this shape and somehow made sure it will be default after resets as well.

8 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Could an immortal fully assume an animal form, participate in reproduction, and produce a hybrid offspring?

Note that generally, people tend to focus on reproduction and are bad at focusing on something else at same time. It's possible that keeping different form while having sex would be impractically hard even for immortals.

 

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:

She didn't assume a human form with Blaike though, only when she was out in public, experiencing adventures, and all she really does is make her ears more human looking. In private, she doesn't hide her true self from Blaike.

 

OK, I misspoke. She assumed a material humanoid form in the EGS universe capable of supporting reproduction with a human male. But, you are right, it wasn't exactly human.

 

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Not speaking about some extraterrestrials ...

Considering we only saw shapeshifting from OLD immortals, I would assume that their "natural" form is humanoid, no matter how weird it is. Or ... maybe some fairies long ago, before several resets, decided for this shape and somehow made sure it will be default after resets as well.

Note that generally, people tend to focus on reproduction and are bad at focusing on something else at same time. It's possible that keeping different form while having sex would be impractically hard even for immortals.

Maybe I misunderstood Dan's intent, but I was under the impression that they are generally immaterial, and not really a part of a physical reality unless they choose to be. I suppose I'll have to revisit and see if 'they are merely invisible' fits.

That does leave me scratching my head wondering what traveling between universes is like for an immortal. Are their dwelling spaces attached to the physical universe, or is it a continuum between universes? I suppose at this point it isn't canon either way. Although we have a hint that Voltaire talked to the griffin Tara on both sides of the EGS universe. Also newly reborn Pandora didn't seem capable of much movement at all.

What we've seen of transformations in EGS do not take continual concentration to maintain. Nor, for the most part, can the just be willed away, although it seems like the skilled characters are heading that way.

 

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Considering we only saw shapeshifting from OLD immortals, I would assume that their "natural" form is humanoid, no matter how weird it is. Or ... maybe some fairies long ago, before several resets, decided for this shape and somehow made sure it will be default after resets as well.

Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

OK, I misspoke. She assumed a material humanoid form in the EGS universe capable of supporting reproduction with a human male. But, you are right, it wasn't exactly human.

While it could be the result of Pandora refreshing rather than resetting, the form we last see her in may be a clue as to an Immortal's natura form. We do know that Immortals have a "basic nature" that they reset to and then they can chose how they want to present themselves. The question is, is this base form something that Immortals designed for themselves when they first agreed to reset themselves every 200 years or so, or is it the actual form they had when they were 17-18 years old in their very first life, when they first came into being (either created, or before they evolved).

 

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3 hours ago, Scotty said:

While it could be the result of Pandora refreshing rather than resetting, the form we last see her in may be a clue as to an Immortal's natura form. We do know that Immortals have a "basic nature" that they reset to and then they can chose how they want to present themselves. The question is, is this base form something that Immortals designed for themselves when they first agreed to reset themselves every 200 years or so, or is it the actual form they had when they were 17-18 years old in their very first life, when they first came into being (either created, or before they evolved).

EHmmm ... I wouldn't put too much into the form apparent age and rather state the question if this is form they were created / evolved with (optionally modified by aging) or if it's something they choose later as a conscious decision, likely after already seeing how humans look (again optionally modified by aging).

3 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Maybe I misunderstood Dan's intent, but I was under the impression that they are generally immaterial, and not really a part of a physical reality unless they choose to be.

I was under the impression that they are generally on spirit plane, which is not exactly the same as being immaterial although there are some similarities.

They seem to still have some form on spirit plane, although it IS possible it's easier to change it.

3 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

That does leave me scratching my head wondering what traveling between universes is like for an immortal. Are their dwelling spaces attached to the physical universe, or is it a continuum between universes? I suppose at this point it isn't canon either way. Although we have a hint that Voltaire talked to the griffin Tara on both sides of the EGS universe. Also newly reborn Pandora didn't seem capable of much movement at all.

Actually no, I don't think Voltaire was talking to Tara on both sides of the EGS universe and I don't think we ever saw immortals travel between universe.

Note that when on Tara's side of universe, Voltaire would be bound by Ancient's law and forbidden to lie ... I'm sure there would be plenty of Ancients who would enforce such restriction. However, it's also possible that they are actually forbidden from traveling between universes by their laws.

3 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

What we've seen of transformations in EGS do not take continual concentration to maintain. Nor, for the most part, can the just be willed away, although it seems like the skilled characters are heading that way.

Note that Pandora needed to cast spell on Raven when he was unconscious to make him look as he usually does. Although that might've been just because the transformed back before that.

He also specifically mentions that transformations require more energy than illusions.

On the other hand, yes, it doesn't seem it requires continual concentration, and sex usually doesn't take so long there would be risk of the spell to expire. Still, that's valid for "simple" transformation: we have zero data about non-humanoid transformations ... for example, I would suspect that the chaos form Pandora was using DOES require some sort of concentration ...

 

 

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Note that when on Tara's side of universe, Voltaire would be bound by Ancient's law and forbidden to lie ... I'm sure there would be plenty of Ancients who would enforce such restriction. However, it's also possible that they are actually forbidden from traveling between universes by their laws.

Given that we now know that Immortals are the same beings which used to be known as Fae, individuals with a malicious mindset such as Voltaire would likely indulge in the Fair Folk's infamous habit of saying things that are deceptive while not actually being false.

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55 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I was under the impression that they are generally on spirit plane, which is not exactly the same as being immaterial although there are some similarities.

They seem to still have some form on spirit plane, although it IS possible it's easier to change it.

Immaterial is a descriptive term, which means pretty much what it says, label on the can. Not made of material, no physical. It's a pretty broad term, and would, in my opinion apply to a spirit plane. Perhaps you have in mind some D&D nth edition source book that has game rules for two different environments named "Immaterial" and "Spirit"; sorry, that's not my baseline.

Recall that Magus had a form on the plane Pandora exists on, but was helpless to accomplish anything from there; apparently could not cast any magic. On the plus side, did not need to eat.

In reality, though, information, data, of any sort, needs to intersect material reality. It can be represented by the presence or absence of something material, for example, holes in punch cards, but is generally represented by the configuration of something material. for example, magnetic domains.

The only thing I can think of that is arguably immaterial are conductive holes in semiconductors, which still obviously requires a material structure to support it. Space and gravity seem to qualify, but may just lack sufficient understanding and definition. Acoustic waves don't count, because they carry energy. (Holes count because they are a point of view kind of thing, electrons still carry the energy.)

Meh, numbers and mathematical entities are validly immaterial because they have an existence independent of being stored as data; there is a next digit of pi beyond what has been calculated that could in turn be calculated.

I suppose forgotten information also qualifies; it had an existence, but you can't go back to it.

Time? Yeah, probably time.

Ideas and tropes, I'd say, "no", but the fact that they are shared muddies the water.

 

55 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Actually no, I don't think Voltaire was talking to Tara on both sides of the EGS universe and I don't think we ever saw immortals travel between universe.

Note that when on Tara's side of universe, Voltaire would be bound by Ancient's law and forbidden to lie ... I'm sure there would be plenty of Ancients who would enforce such restriction. However, it's also possible that they are actually forbidden from traveling between universes by their laws.

He may not have been on the other side; the comic has not shown immortals traveling to other universes. It also hasn't shown them traveling to other planets, perhaps they can't do that either. It has shown them going to odd places, Heka's library and Grace's dream; so as far as I can tell, restrictions are not implied. Even so, just because he could doesn't mean he did; and since it isn't shown to be markedly commonplace, it is fair to assume he didn't. Except, he's Voltaire, and he has an agenda, if he was capable and saw an advantage, he may have done so. I took circumstances to mean that it was likely he lured Tara, but it may have been entirely opportunistic.

If he did lure Tara, he needn't have lied. Well, couldn't but it would not have been necessary.

Their laws are indeed a plot wildcard that can and likely will be invoked to make sense of what they do.

His agenda, to change the rules, appears to only apply to the EGS side, but it is worth noting that even though the other side has different rules, they appear to be there for similar reasons, to similar ends. Convergent evolution of the rule set, so to speak.

 

55 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Note that Pandora needed to cast spell on Raven when he was unconscious to make him look as he usually does. Although that might've been just because the transformed back before that.

He also specifically mentions that transformations require more energy than illusions.

It makes sense that a person using an illusion needs to concentrate on it, if the setting is dynamic; normal physical movements and such. It also makes sense that an illusion could be cast longer term on a static item or unconscious person. It would also make sense that Pandora just had spells that did more.

 

55 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

On the other hand, yes, it doesn't seem it requires continual concentration, and sex usually doesn't take so long there would be risk of the spell to expire. Still, that's valid for "simple" transformation: we have zero data about non-humanoid transformations ... for example, I would suspect that the chaos form Pandora was using DOES require some sort of concentration ...

We have a little bit of information. There was a statement about the gender transformations not supporting pregnancy within some short time frame, we could extrapolate this to partial and full species transformations.

You right though, we don't have information on the long term effects. Could Elliot and Catalina have a cat person baby, if they really wanted to? It hasn't really been stated (and seems unlikely to come up).

Grace seems to be able to maintain squirrel form indefinitely; she does so 'all night' on the girls' outing to find the hammer. Could she have a litter of squirrels if she wanted to? <shrug> I'm still wondering where her mass and memories go, and why she seems capable of human thought in that mode.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I was under the impression that they are generally on spirit plane, which is not exactly the same as being immaterial although there are some similarities.

They seem to still have some form on spirit plane, although it IS possible it's easier to change it.

Immaterial is a descriptive term, which means pretty much what it says, label on the can. Not made of material, no physical. It's a pretty broad term, and would, in my opinion apply to a spirit plane. Perhaps you have in mind some D&D nth edition source book that has game rules for two different environments named "Immaterial" and "Spirit"; sorry, that's not my baseline.

Not D&D. The difference would be that being on different plane would affect how you interact with material plane, but interaction with other beings and items on same plane could work using standard rules for material, so it would be closer to being elsewhere than to being from something different.

37 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Recall that Magus had a form on the plane Pandora exists on, but was helpless to accomplish anything from there; apparently could not cast any magic. On the plus side, did not need to eat.

There wasn't exactly lot of stuff on spiritual plane he could interact with. But yes, that bit about not needing to eat - and possibly breath either - would suggest it's not just different place but that there are different rules there as well.

38 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

In reality, though, information, data, of any sort, needs to intersect material reality. It can be represented by the presence or absence of something material, for example, holes in punch cards, but is generally represented by the configuration of something material. for example, magnetic domains.

The only thing I can think of that is arguably immaterial are conductive holes in semiconductors, which still obviously requires a material structure to support it. Space and gravity seem to qualify, but may just lack sufficient understanding and definition. Acoustic waves don't count, because they carry energy. (Holes count because they are a point of view kind of thing, electrons still carry the energy.)

Dark matter, dark energy. On quantum level "intersecting material reality" doesn't mean anything: everything is wave. Also particle. At same time.

And then there are black holes. The question if information disappears when falling into them is still open.

Some theories of gravity counts with more than 10 dimensions. That might still be conservative number.

We don't know enough about our own universe physics to be as certain as you are ... we know even less about EGS universe.

41 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Meh, numbers and mathematical entities are validly immaterial because they have an existence independent of being stored as data; there is a next digit of pi beyond what has been calculated that could in turn be calculated.

I suppose forgotten information also qualifies; it had an existence, but you can't go back to it.

Time? Yeah, probably time.

Ideas and tropes, I'd say, "no", but the fact that they are shared muddies the water.

Ideas are just as next digit of pi. Just because noone though about them yet doesn't say anything about if they exists or not. Just as next digit of pi, the idea can be logical conclusion of some process - and that is true independently if someone actually though that process. Of course this all is heavy philosophy.

46 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

He may not have been on the other side; the comic has not shown immortals traveling to other universes. It also hasn't shown them traveling to other planets, perhaps they can't do that either. It has shown them going to odd places, Heka's library and Grace's dream; so as far as I can tell, restrictions are not implied. Even so, just because he could doesn't mean he did; and since it isn't shown to be markedly commonplace, it is fair to assume he didn't. Except, he's Voltaire, and he has an agenda, if he was capable and saw an advantage, he may have done so. I took circumstances to mean that it was likely he lured Tara, but it may have been entirely opportunistic.

If he did lure Tara, he needn't have lied. Well, couldn't but it would not have been necessary.

Their laws are indeed a plot wildcard that can and likely will be invoked to make sense of what they do.

His agenda, to change the rules, appears to only apply to the EGS side, but it is worth noting that even though the other side has different rules, they appear to be there for similar reasons, to similar ends. Convergent evolution of the rule set, so to speak.

Heka's library is in Egypt. Grace's dream ... actually, this is very good counterexample of your "intersecting material reality" idea. But I would argue it's still closer than other universes, or other side of this one.

Good point about the lying: it's possible he only started to lie when on this side. However I still think he only took the opportunity when Tara was already on this side of universe.

50 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

On the other hand, yes, it doesn't seem it requires continual concentration, and sex usually doesn't take so long there would be risk of the spell to expire. Still, that's valid for "simple" transformation: we have zero data about non-humanoid transformations ... for example, I would suspect that the chaos form Pandora was using DOES require some sort of concentration ...

We have a little bit of information. There was a statement about the gender transformations not supporting pregnancy within some short time frame, we could extrapolate this to partial and full species transformations.

There was actually specifically mentioned that in case of long term transformation, when the transformed person WILL get pregnant, it will lock the transformation at least until delivery. As a safety feature.

52 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

You right though, we don't have information on the long term effects. Could Elliot and Catalina have a cat person baby, if they really wanted to? It hasn't really been stated (and seems unlikely to come up).

That says very little about different species. The tail and ears notwithstanding, I suspect human turned catgirl/catboy are still mostly human, that the change is not able to go THAT deep. If it would, it would also be able to heal. It's true that they were able to get high with catnip, however noone got poisoned by chocolate yet ...

54 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Grace seems to be able to maintain squirrel form indefinitely; she does so 'all night' on the girls' outing to find the hammer. Could she have a litter of squirrels if she wanted to?

I'm sure that Grace's children with some squirrel would be chimeras (part uryuoms) just like she is. So, like, no difference from her children with Tedd.

Seriously, Grace's being capable of maintaining squirrel form is not different from her ability to maintain human form: She's just as much squirrel as she's human.

55 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I'm still wondering where her mass and memories go, and why she seems capable of human thought in that mode.

Based on her capability of human though the memories don't "go" anywhere. But, yes, the question how is she able to think as hu- ... as uryuom even with brain size matching squirrel is just as hard as where did the mass go or where it will came from when she grows ... or when Rhoda is doing resizing.

Our best hint about this is quite remote: the note about how much physical laws the avatar with persistence breaks. Apparently, temporary change is less serious than permanent change: nevertheless, Nanase's ability to create persistent dolls does NOT necessary means she's capable of manipulating enough energy to destroy whole Moperville, because the creating of matter is done by some sort of cheat.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

EHmmm ... I wouldn't put too much into the form apparent age and rather state the question if this is form they were created / evolved with (optionally modified by aging) or if it's something they choose later as a conscious decision, likely after already seeing how humans look (again optionally modified by aging).

If Immortals have been around longer than humans, then they're original form would either be something completely different, or it just so happens that Humans developed to look similar enough.

Other possibility is that Humans are an offshoot of Immortals. Either they're the ones that didn't evolve  (Think Stargate with Ancients ascending, not all of them did) or Humans were created in the Immortals image (with different ears).

The idea of Immortals at one time being mortal is interesting and could be plausible too if one considers how Aberrations work and why Immortals loath them, like maybe aberrations came about as failed attempts to "ascend", Immortals are integrated in the Magic of the world and the energy sustains them, but aberrations failed to integrate and so requires the energy of other living things to survive.

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As for Grace getting pregnant...
Many of you will remember (and Tedd absolutely CAN NOT forget) that it was established by Edward Veres that Grace can only get pregnant while fully human
She can not get pregnant in the Squirrel-Girl form or other transformations

Of course, none of this says anything about her supposed ability to create an egg on her own

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On 12/22/2019 at 10:01 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

So Pandora decided she liked Blaike, assumed a human form and had a child with him, Adrian Raven.

Could an immortal fully assume an animal form, participate in reproduction, and produce a hybrid offspring? I'm guessing there's an immortal rule that says, "Your offspring must be capable of being accountable for their magic use."

18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

On the other hand, yes, it doesn't seem it requires continual concentration, and sex usually doesn't take so long there would be risk of the spell to expire. Still, that's valid for "simple" transformation: we have zero data about non-humanoid transformations ... for example, I would suspect that the chaos form Pandora was using DOES require some sort of concentration ...

Considering the form she took as she woke up from her nap around Halloween was a variation on her chaos form, I wouldn't think it would require concentration. Personally, I figured that the chaos form was what happened when she didn't concentrate on what she wanted to look like (though I also think that it either doesn't take too much concentration to stay in humanoid form, or she had an easier time staying in humanoid form whens he was younger).

While we've never seen any other Immortals in a "chaos" form, my head canon is that all of them have forms like that, and that it's actually their natural form (though I suspect the multiple heads thing is a product of aging well beyond 200).

If my head canon is right, there shouldn't be any reason they couldn't assume the form of other animals and reproduce with them just as easily as they do with humans.

15 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Grace seems to be able to maintain squirrel form indefinitely; she does so 'all night' on the girls' outing to find the hammer. Could she have a litter of squirrels if she wanted to? <shrug> I'm still wondering where her mass and memories go, and why she seems capable of human thought in that mode.

Wherever the mass goes, it has to do with Uryuom powers as modified by Cosmetic Morphing Devices; remember that before she was hit by the Transformation Gun, she maintained the same weight in all her forms (making for a very dense squirrel form...).

As far as her memories and human thought in squirrel form goes, it might just be Dan's art style, but Grace does seem to have a bigger head than a real squirrel when in her squirrel form.

 

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10 hours ago, Scotty said:
19 hours ago, hkmaly said:

EHmmm ... I wouldn't put too much into the form apparent age and rather state the question if this is form they were created / evolved with (optionally modified by aging) or if it's something they choose later as a conscious decision, likely after already seeing how humans look (again optionally modified by aging).

If Immortals have been around longer than humans, then they're original form would either be something completely different, or it just so happens that Humans developed to look similar enough.

I think they either were NOT around longer than humans, or they was but they didn't looked as they do now back then.

... note that Homo Erectus was there two millions years ago and looked already similar enough that someone creating look similar to him could end up with how fairies looks.

Of course, it's just what i think. I suspect at this point not even fairies themselves know.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

Other possibility is that Humans are an offshoot of Immortals. Either they're the ones that didn't evolve  (Think Stargate with Ancients ascending, not all of them did) or Humans were created in the Immortals image (with different ears).

Well, they mostly are.  There is quite big chance majority of Europeans have Adrian Raven's genes now, and he might be one of youngest elves.

It's possible that Homo Sapiens is actually result of Immortals having children with Homo Neanderthalis or mentioned Homo Erectus.

... oh. That's not how you meant it. Ok, also alternative.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

The idea of Immortals at one time being mortal is interesting and could be plausible too if one considers how Aberrations work and why Immortals loath them, like maybe aberrations came about as failed attempts to "ascend", Immortals are integrated in the Magic of the world and the energy sustains them, but aberrations failed to integrate and so requires the energy of other living things to survive.

If this was the original reason, I would assume it was long forgotten. On the other hand, long hate between two groups with forgotten reasons is quite common, so totally possible.

One important note however: Aberrations can totally be failed attempt to "ascend" to form similar to fairies no matter if fairies were originally human or not. It's enough if the aberrations THOUGH it's true.

5 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

As for Grace getting pregnant...
Many of you will remember (and Tedd absolutely CAN NOT forget) that it was established by Edward Veres that Grace can only get pregnant while fully human
She can not get pregnant in the Squirrel-Girl form or other transformations

She can't get pregnant specifically when half-squirrel. I don't think it says anything about the other forms, especially considering the scientists who created her knew very little about how she can obtain other forms AND combine them ...

Now, I find unlikely she would actually consider having child with squirrel, so this possibility will remain purely hypothetical. The other forms, meanwhile ... I would expect she will be able to mix&match whatever prevents her half-squirrel form from getting pregnant as she want, although it may need some effort.

5 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Of course, none of this says anything about her supposed ability to create an egg on her own

... or, failing that, create an egg with some other uryuom.

1 hour ago, ChronosCat said:

Considering the form she took as she woke up from her nap around Halloween was a variation on her chaos form, I wouldn't think it would require concentration. Personally, I figured that the chaos form was what happened when she didn't concentrate on what she wanted to look like (though I also think that it either doesn't take too much concentration to stay in humanoid form, or she had an easier time staying in humanoid form whens he was younger).

Variant, sure, but mostly static.

I think that it's the other way around and her chaos form matches the fact it's getting hard for her to focus her thoughts. That she hadn't problem staying humanoid when young, but as getting older, she starts to get something like multiple-personality disorder and the chaos form is basically her other personalities taking care of her look.

It's specifically the changes that I assume require constant use of magic.

1 hour ago, ChronosCat said:

While we've never seen any other Immortals in a "chaos" form, my head canon is that all of them have forms like that, and that it's actually their natural form (though I suspect the multiple heads thing is a product of aging well beyond 200).

If my head canon is right, there shouldn't be any reason they couldn't assume the form of other animals and reproduce with them just as easily as they do with humans.

Of course, my assumption could be wrong. Generally, I would consider what you suggest plausible, it's just that specifically in EGS I find very little to support that. That doesn't make it impossible, just less likely.

1 hour ago, ChronosCat said:
16 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Grace seems to be able to maintain squirrel form indefinitely; she does so 'all night' on the girls' outing to find the hammer. Could she have a litter of squirrels if she wanted to? <shrug> I'm still wondering where her mass and memories go, and why she seems capable of human thought in that mode.

Wherever the mass goes, it has to do with Uryuom powers as modified by Cosmetic Morphing Devices; remember that before she was hit by the Transformation Gun, she maintained the same weight in all her forms (making for a very dense squirrel form...).

That would really be very dense squirrel, suggesting that Dan didn't really though this out. She would have problems climbing trees like that, and it's debatable if it would actually break less physical laws than the transformation without conservation of mass.

1 hour ago, ChronosCat said:

As far as her memories and human thought in squirrel form goes, it might just be Dan's art style, but Grace does seem to have a bigger head than a real squirrel when in her squirrel form.

Not bigger enough.

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3 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Considering the form she took as she woke up from her nap around Halloween was a variation on her chaos form, I wouldn't think it would require concentration. Personally, I figured that the chaos form was what happened when she didn't concentrate on what she wanted to look like (though I also think that it either doesn't take too much concentration to stay in humanoid form, or she had an easier time staying in humanoid form whens he was younger).

While we've never seen any other Immortals in a "chaos" form, my head canon is that all of them have forms like that, and that it's actually their natural form (though I suspect the multiple heads thing is a product of aging well beyond 200).

If my head canon is right, there shouldn't be any reason they couldn't assume the form of other animals and reproduce with them just as easily as they do with humans.

Wherever the mass goes, it has to do with Uryuom powers as modified by Cosmetic Morphing Devices; remember that before she was hit by the Transformation Gun, she maintained the same weight in all her forms (making for a very dense squirrel form...).

As far as her memories and human thought in squirrel form goes, it might just be Dan's art style, but Grace does seem to have a bigger head than a real squirrel when in her squirrel form.

You beat me to responding that I think the chaos form is the default form.

A head cannon sounds like a bad idea, it's a good thing you don't have one of those ... unless it's a cannon that shoots heads at things, that sounds overall safer and less troublesome unless you're one of the ammo donors.

I actually thought of and forgot to mention that Sarah picking up squirrel Grace was not straining, so squirrel Grace did not have Grace's normal mass.

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18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Dark matter, dark energy. On quantum level "intersecting material reality" doesn't mean anything: everything is wave. Also particle. At same time.

And then there are black holes. The question if information disappears when falling into them is still open.

Some theories of gravity counts with more than 10 dimensions. That might still be conservative number.

We don't know enough about our own universe physics to be as certain as you are ... we know even less about EGS universe.

Dark matter, - not immaterial.

Dark energy, - not immaterial.

Black holes,  - the singularity is arguably no longer part of our universe. The envelope of the event horizon might be considered immaterial. But, I'm not a true believer in non-rotating black holes; I think there's a vanishingly small probability that any particular black hole is not spinning. I explained why a couple of months ago. Granted, there may be an unknown mechanism that bleeds angular momentum to the environment and slows the spinning over time.

Dimensions of gravity - how is this germane?

We don't know - you sound fairly certain for someone who doesn't know.

We know even less about EGS universe - we know it's like ours, except when plot dictates otherwise. That's the paradigm used so far.

Intersecting material reality - I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. A hole in a punch card is a physical artifact of information. There is a material difference. polarization of a liquid crystal substrate, not so much. You won't find a chemical difference nor mass difference between one polarized cell and its oppositely polarized neighbor. The difference is physical, but in a nearly insubstantial way. That's all I meant, don't read any spooky interpretation into "intersecting material reality".

 

18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Ideas are just as next digit of pi. Just because no one though about them yet doesn't say anything about if they exists or not. Just as next digit of pi, the idea can be logical conclusion of some process - and that is true independently if someone actually though that process. Of course this all is heavy philosophy.

You raise a good point here, "Just because no one though about them yet doesn't say anything about if they exists or not." that needs to be addressed.

I wasn't trying to be overly specific with the next digit of pi example, so yeah, many similar avenues;

... but, lacking any current sense of expression, an idea can't yet even be considered to be hypothetical, so a vast number that will exist don't at present.

I also wasn't really counting stuff that's just wrong, for instance the next digit of pi, miscalculated. To be fair, this kind of thing sometimes takes on a life of its own, as someone catches the error, then has to explain it, the back it out, then notate it so that it is not repeated.

 

18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Heka's library is in Egypt. Grace's dream ... actually, this is very good counterexample of your "intersecting material reality" idea. But I would argue it's still closer than other universes, or other side of this one.

My impression was a mere mortal with no magic affinity would not even see Heka's library.

Your comment re: "intersecting material reality" sounds again like you are reading in something to the phrase that I did not intend. I obviously didn't see it the way you did; that should have been a clue.

 

18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

However I still think he only took the opportunity when Tara was already on this side of universe.

It is sufficient.

 

18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

There was actually specifically mentioned that in case of long term transformation, when the transformed person WILL get pregnant, it will lock the transformation at least until delivery. As a safety feature.

That says very little about different species. The tail and ears notwithstanding, I suspect human turned catgirl/catboy are still mostly human, that the change is not able to go THAT deep. If it would, it would also be able to heal. It's true that they were able to get high with catnip, however no one got poisoned by chocolate yet ...

Specific bells and whistles aside, you're going toward a similar conclusion to what I had in mind.

 

18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm sure that Grace's children with some squirrel would be chimeras (part uryuoms) just like she is. So, like, no difference from her children with Tedd.

Eh, the conjectured results are not within the canon definitions. By rights, she should be sterile, or more to the point, not exist, so logic is probably not the best approach. If she has a kid, it will be whatever plot dictates, and will be rationalized after the fact. We humans have a long tradition of doing just that and are fairly skillful at it.

 

18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Seriously, Grace's being capable of maintaining squirrel form is not different from her ability to maintain human form: She's just as much squirrel as she's human.

Based on her capability of human though the memories don't "go" anywhere. But, yes, the question how is she able to think as hu- ... as uryuom even with brain size matching squirrel is just as hard as where did the mass go or where it will came from when she grows ... or when Rhoda is doing resizing.

Our best hint about this is quite remote: the note about how much physical laws the avatar with persistence breaks. Apparently, temporary change is less serious than permanent change: nevertheless, Nanase's ability to create persistent dolls does NOT necessary means she's capable of manipulating enough energy to destroy whole Moperville, because the creating of matter is done by some sort of cheat.

There is that niggling thing about the Law of Conservation of Grace. She does not retain mass when shrunk as a squirrel, evidenced by Sarah picking her up without straining. Similarly, Rhoda did not strain to pick up shrunken Catalina, who later regained mass as she regained size.

I suppose the lesson here is "Don't over-analyze your webcomic.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

She does not retain mass when shrunk as a squirrel, evidenced by Sarah picking her up without straining. Similarly, Rhoda did not strain to pick up shrunken Catalina, who later regained mass as she regained size.

Or perhaps Sarah and Rhoda are just that incredibly strong without realizing it?

I know, they have adrenaline enhanced strength that kicks in not when triggered by fear or excitement, but by cuteness

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1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Or perhaps Sarah and Rhoda are just that incredibly strong without realizing it?

I know, they have adrenaline enhanced strength that kicks in not when triggered by fear or excitement, but by cuteness

People are just that much stronger in their universe. ...

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On 12/24/2019 at 4:20 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

I actually thought of and forgot to mention that Sarah picking up squirrel Grace was not straining, so squirrel Grace did not have Grace's normal mass.

On 12/24/2019 at 5:21 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

She does not retain mass when shrunk as a squirrel, evidenced by Sarah picking her up without straining.

That was AFTER CMD, wasn't it?

I was talking about the situation BEFORE she was transformed by CMD, when she supposedly retained her mass during transformation.

On 12/24/2019 at 5:21 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

Dark matter, - not immaterial.

Dark energy, - not immaterial.

Do you know something our physicists don't?

On 12/24/2019 at 5:21 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

Dimensions of gravity - how is this germane?

The point was that spirit plane might have something to do with additional dimensions.

On 12/24/2019 at 5:21 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

We know even less about EGS universe - we know it's like ours, except when plot dictates otherwise. That's the paradigm used so far.

We also know Dan is not quantum physicists and doesn't really think everything out as much as say Randall Munroe, which means there must be quite a lot of plot-dictated differences with unexpected sideefects.

On 12/24/2019 at 5:21 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

Intersecting material reality - I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. A hole in a punch card is a physical artifact of information. There is a material difference. polarization of a liquid crystal substrate, not so much. You won't find a chemical difference nor mass difference between one polarized cell and its oppositely polarized neighbor. The difference is physical, but in a nearly insubstantial way. That's all I meant, don't read any spooky interpretation into "intersecting material reality".

That's possible. What I though you speak about is that things on spirit plane can't be material and would need to be separate category different from everything we know about from our world.

On 12/24/2019 at 5:21 AM, Darth Fluffy said:
On 12/23/2019 at 9:38 AM, hkmaly said:

Ideas are just as next digit of pi. Just because no one though about them yet doesn't say anything about if they exists or not. Just as next digit of pi, the idea can be logical conclusion of some process - and that is true independently if someone actually though that process. Of course this all is heavy philosophy.

You raise a good point here, "Just because no one though about them yet doesn't say anything about if they exists or not." that needs to be addressed.

I wasn't trying to be overly specific with the next digit of pi example, so yeah, many similar avenues;

... but, lacking any current sense of expression, an idea can't yet even be considered to be hypothetical, so a vast number that will exist don't at present.

What is that "sense of expression" which next digit of pi has? Especially considering that in our universe, only finite number of digits of pi are necessary for everything?

How is that different from next Fibonacci number, next prime number, next element of any sequence specific enough that you can determine next element when you know the rules and the previous ones?

On 12/24/2019 at 5:21 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

My impression was a mere mortal with no magic affinity would not even see Heka's library.

I think he would. Only, like, would need to excavate lot of sand to get to it. A specific place in Egypt sounds like it's physically there, hidden somewhere. But yes, that's just hypothesis.

On 12/24/2019 at 5:21 AM, Darth Fluffy said:
On 12/23/2019 at 9:38 AM, hkmaly said:

I'm sure that Grace's children with some squirrel would be chimeras (part uryuoms) just like she is. So, like, no difference from her children with Tedd.

Eh, the conjectured results are not within the canon definitions. By rights, she should be sterile, or more to the point, not exist, so logic is probably not the best approach. If she has a kid, it will be whatever plot dictates, and will be rationalized after the fact. We humans have a long tradition of doing just that and are fairly skillful at it.

It is already established that Uryuom egg has some mechanism (using Uryuom energy probably) how to combine DNA in way which makes resulting hybrid not just possible but fertile. There is nothing in the mechanism which would be specific to humans: Occam's razor says that there is nothing specific to humans in results either.

Now, that mechanism is likely to continue working during whole Uryuom life, so why couldn't it work even for reproduction? I mean, it obviously work in reproduction via Uryuom egg, but why it couldn't work for Grace getting pregnant? Now, for Grace getting someone else pregnant, THAT might be hard to explain ...

Logic is actually best approach to ANY kind of speculation. It's just that you need to be VERY careful about your assumptions. Dan's world doesn't seem so full of plot holes you would be able to prove that true is false easily.

On 12/24/2019 at 5:21 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

I suppose the lesson here is "Don't over-analyze your webcomic.

Such lesson is in direct violation of much more basic rule: "have fun".

You only need to stop the analyzing when it stops being fun, not earlier. I have fun, you don't?

On 12/24/2019 at 10:11 PM, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Reminds me of lecture regarding Superheroes and Physics...

 

... remember how I said that Dan's world is not so full of plot holes to prove true is false easily? Well, I'm not so sure about Marvel and DC multiverses. There are limits to what you can explain with different physical laws, especially if authors swear nothing magical is happening in some situation ...

... I remember a good example with Flash: author specifically said that he did not moved faster than light, then gave enough information about the distance and time it took him to travel it which proved he was. ... ok, actually not THAT good example as the speed of light might've been greater there.

 

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On 12/26/2019 at 10:06 PM, hkmaly said:

That was AFTER CMD, wasn't it?

I was talking about the situation BEFORE she was transformed by CMD, when she supposedly retained her mass during transformation.

I don't know what "CMD" is. Change Magic Day?

This is the comic I was referring to.

This one, with Ashley, is more recent.

 

On 12/26/2019 at 10:06 PM, hkmaly said:

Do you know something our physicists don't?

Dark Matter and Dark Energy are placeholder names for things we do not yet understand, but are expected to be a form of matter and energy respectively. Counting energy to be material in the e=mc^2 sense, it is thought to be material, a part of our universe. Maybe a better question is, "Do you know something our physicists don't?"

 

On 12/26/2019 at 10:06 PM, hkmaly said:

The point was that spirit plane might have something to do with additional dimensions.

That seems sufficiently speculative that apart from future Word of Dan stating otherwise, you may as well think that.

 

On 12/26/2019 at 10:06 PM, hkmaly said:

We also know Dan is not quantum physicists and doesn't really think everything out as much as say Randall Munroe, which means there must be quite a lot of plot-dictated differences with unexpected side effects.

Yep, nothing surreal about xkcd.

We do agree about Dan, though; he puts a lot of thought into his comic, but the fantasy setting is asking for trouble if you look too closely at it.

Minor point, all functional physicists are quantum physicists. Fractional physicists are not particularly useful. Missing limbs does not count; the physicist is still functional as a physicist.

 

On 12/26/2019 at 10:06 PM, hkmaly said:

What is that "sense of expression" which next digit of pi has? Especially considering that in our universe, only finite number of digits of pi are necessary for everything?

How is that different from next Fibonacci number, next prime number, next element of any sequence specific enough that you can determine next element when you know the rules and the previous ones?

You got to the conclusion and walked right past it. Yes, any specific sequence that you can calculate further elements is an example. Have a cookie.

I picked digit of pi as my example because it is pseudorandom, and a single digit.

 

On 12/26/2019 at 10:06 PM, hkmaly said:

I think he would. Only, like, would need to excavate lot of sand to get to it. A specific place in Egypt sounds like it's physically there, hidden somewhere. But yes, that's just hypothesis.

A couple of things in this comic lean toward your point of view. "entwined in mortal destiny" might imply mortals have access, meaning exists in the physical realm, and "Attempt to force your way past me ... and be in violation of your own fairy law." even more strongly says it is part of the EGS phyusical realm. Maybe also that the Uryuoms showed up.

 

On 12/26/2019 at 10:06 PM, hkmaly said:

It is already established that Uryuom egg has some mechanism (using Uryuom energy probably) how to combine DNA in way which makes resulting hybrid not just possible but fertile. There is nothing in the mechanism which would be specific to humans: Occam's razor says that there is nothing specific to humans in results either.

Now, that mechanism is likely to continue working during whole Uryuom life, so why couldn't it work even for reproduction? I mean, it obviously work in reproduction via Uryuom egg, but why it couldn't work for Grace getting pregnant? Now, for Grace getting someone else pregnant, THAT might be hard to explain ...

I'm not recalling the statement about fertile offspring, can you cite comics?

Grace is not a Uryuom, she's a chimera; my understanding is that she cannot produce a Uryuom egg on her own.

Assuming she would be fertile on her own, she'd need a half set of DNA from each species she was fertile in, check, she has that, and the Uryuom mechanism has to select that DNA for each species she is fertile in, and reject the others. So to be fertile as a squirrel and as a human, she needs both sets of DNA available but turned on exclusively when appropriate. Human females are born with all the eggs they'll ever have, I'm going to assume this is also true for squirrels, so the mechanism would be selecting between eggs. Multiple ovaries?

There are alternate mechanisms that could be in play, shotgun both form of egg and leave it to chance which gets fertilized, implying an artificially inseminated human Grace could have a litter of squirrels, or a Grace in squirrel form could have a problematic pregnancy carrying a human fetus.

Male form would work similarly, although raising additional questions about where do the eggs go and where did the sperm com from.

Note also that all of the mixing and shuffling benefit of sexual reproduction is missing; she has only one set for each DNA.

Also, it is problematic that she is female; wouldn't all of the mammalian donors be male? How is the Uryuom egg then extending the Y chromosome to be an X?

 

On 12/26/2019 at 10:06 PM, hkmaly said:

Logic is actually best approach to ANY kind of speculation. It's just that you need to be VERY careful about your assumptions. Dan's world doesn't seem so full of plot holes you would be able to prove that true is false easily.

Such lesson is in direct violation of much more basic rule: "have fun".

You only need to stop the analyzing when it stops being fun, not earlier. I have fun, you don't?

We are definitely not seeing eye to eye on this. Let's start with the common ground, "have fun". Yes, I enjoy the comic, as do you, or we wouldn't be reading it.

Logic is a mechanism of thought. In all cases of use of logic, yes, you have to be careful about your premises, or else the logic itself is useless.

However, I look at this a lot like driving a car. When you are first learning, you over focus on how to drive. After a while, the mechanisms become automatic, and you focus on bigger picture things, like the other drivers and traffic flow.

So, no, I don't agree that logic is "the best approach". I think we go largely by intuition, and apply logic to fact check.

Is this particular thread fun? No, to me, it feels like we are beating dead horses. You'll notice, it took me the better part of a week to respond. It is hard to set aside time to continue this particular dialog; in some sense it is like slogging through a swamp.

 

On 12/26/2019 at 10:06 PM, hkmaly said:

... remember how I said that Dan's world is not so full of plot holes to prove true is false easily? Well, I'm not so sure about Marvel and DC multiverses. There are limits to what you can explain with different physical laws, especially if authors swear nothing magical is happening in some situation ...

I agree, I find many comics that I read ages ago to be unreadable today. Then again, even classics like LotR have plot holes. Why didn't they enlist the help of the eagles early on, to drop the ring in Mt. Doom, rather than just to rescue Sam and Frodo? How did the eagles know to show up right then?

 

On 12/26/2019 at 10:06 PM, hkmaly said:

... I remember a good example with Flash: author specifically said that he did not moved faster than light, then gave enough information about the distance and time it took him to travel it which proved he was. ... ok, actually not THAT good example as the speed of light might've been greater there.

I wonder why the Flash doesn't stay in one place with his legs scrambling under him, trying to get traction, like Wiley Coyote does. How in the #%!! does he turn corners?

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1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Also, it is problematic that she is female; wouldn't all of the mammalian donors be male? How is the Uryuom egg then extending the Y chromosome to be an X?

 

By that line of logic, how are daughters ever born with DNA from mammalian donors? Approximately 50% of sperm cells in mammals have the father's X chromosome and no Y, while the other 50% have the father's Y and no X. Any typical macroscopic sample of sperm will contain millions of each, unless they have been deliberately sorted by some means.

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1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:
On 12/27/2019 at 4:06 AM, hkmaly said:

That was AFTER CMD, wasn't it?

I was talking about the situation BEFORE she was transformed by CMD, when she supposedly retained her mass during transformation.

I don't know what "CMD" is. Change Magic Day?

This is the comic I was referring to.

This one, with Ashley, is more recent.

33 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:
1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I don't know what "CMD" is. Change Magic Day?

Cosmetic Morphing Device. Or Tedd's Uryuom transformation gun.

Yes, although I would say Cosmetic Morphing Device, for example Tedd's transformation gun. And it's important because Greater Chimeras are born with imperfect morphing abilities that are corrected once they've been transformed at least once by a CMD.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:
On 12/27/2019 at 4:06 AM, hkmaly said:

Do you know something our physicists don't?

Dark Matter and Dark Energy are placeholder names for things we do not yet understand, but are expected to be a form of matter and energy respectively. Counting energy to be material in the e=mc^2 sense, it is thought to be material, a part of our universe.

In the e=mc^2 sense lot of things is material.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:
On 12/27/2019 at 4:06 AM, hkmaly said:

We also know Dan is not quantum physicists and doesn't really think everything out as much as say Randall Munroe, which means there must be quite a lot of plot-dictated differences with unexpected side effects.

Yep, nothing surreal about xkcd.

We do agree about Dan, though; he puts a lot of thought into his comic, but the fantasy setting is asking for trouble if you look too closely at it.

Welll ... there are some exceptions.

Even in fantasy settings you can put different amount of thought into physical and magical laws.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Minor point, all functional physicists are quantum physicists. Fractional physicists are not particularly useful. Missing limbs does not count; the physicist is still functional as a physicist.

:)

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:
On 12/27/2019 at 4:06 AM, hkmaly said:

What is that "sense of expression" which next digit of pi has? Especially considering that in our universe, only finite number of digits of pi are necessary for everything?

How is that different from next Fibonacci number, next prime number, next element of any sequence specific enough that you can determine next element when you know the rules and the previous ones?

You got to the conclusion and walked right past it. Yes, any specific sequence that you can calculate further elements is an example. Have a cookie.

I picked digit of pi as my example because it is pseudorandom, and a single digit.

My point was exactly that the next element doesn't need to be digit. It can be graph for example. You can have (potentially) infinite sequence of graphs which is completely immaterial (there is not enough material to HOLD all those graphs in any representation in universe) yet it exists. As a bonus point, every graph in that sequence may be bigger than the previous one - not that it would actually matter.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:
On 12/27/2019 at 4:06 AM, hkmaly said:

I think he would. Only, like, would need to excavate lot of sand to get to it. A specific place in Egypt sounds like it's physically there, hidden somewhere. But yes, that's just hypothesis.

A couple of things in this comic lean toward your point of view. "entwined in mortal destiny" might imply mortals have access, meaning exists in the physical realm, and "Attempt to force your way past me ... and be in violation of your own fairy law." even more strongly says it is part of the EGS phyusical realm. Maybe also that the Uryuoms showed up.

Yeah, I don't think Uryuoms would be able to get to place which is not in physical realm, especially not with golems.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Grace is not a Uryuom, she's a chimera; my understanding is that she cannot produce a Uryuom egg on her own.

Actually, she may be able to produce a Uryuom egg on her own, unlike most Uryuoms who need to be two for that.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

However, I look at this a lot like driving a car. When you are first learning, you over focus on how to drive. After a while, the mechanisms become automatic, and you focus on bigger picture things, like the other drivers and traffic flow.

So, no, I don't agree that logic is "the best approach". I think we go largely by intuition, and apply logic to fact check.

The mechanism becoming automatic doesn't mean you stopped using it. If you trained your intuition correctly, there is still logic under it.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Is this particular thread fun? No, to me, it feels like we are beating dead horses. You'll notice, it took me the better part of a week to respond. It is hard to set aside time to continue this particular dialog; in some sense it is like slogging through a swamp.

... ok, then I wouldn't be surprised if you stop.

However, I must say that just because it's hard to set time for something doesn't mean it's not fun.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:
On 12/27/2019 at 4:06 AM, hkmaly said:

... remember how I said that Dan's world is not so full of plot holes to prove true is false easily? Well, I'm not so sure about Marvel and DC multiverses. There are limits to what you can explain with different physical laws, especially if authors swear nothing magical is happening in some situation ...

I agree, I find many comics that I read ages ago to be unreadable today. Then again, even classics like LotR have plot holes. Why didn't they enlist the help of the eagles early on, to drop the ring in Mt. Doom, rather than just to rescue Sam and Frodo?

... that one is easy, the eagles are band of cowards :)

Or, to cut them some slack, without the distraction from the army attempt to fly to Mordor would be likely suicide. They would be noticed and either shot down or intercepted by ringwraights.

Not all plot holes are so bad you can use them to prove true is false. Lot of them "only" require that main characters are extremely forgetful.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:
On 12/27/2019 at 4:06 AM, hkmaly said:

... I remember a good example with Flash: author specifically said that he did not moved faster than light, then gave enough information about the distance and time it took him to travel it which proved he was. ... ok, actually not THAT good example as the speed of light might've been greater there.

I wonder why the Flash doesn't stay in one place with his legs scrambling under him, trying to get traction, like Wiley Coyote does. How in the #%!! does he turn corners?

Usual answer are secondary powers. Another good question is how can he survive the friction of air.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Assuming she would be fertile on her own, she'd need a half set of DNA from each species she was fertile in, check, she has that, and the Uryuom mechanism has to select that DNA for each species she is fertile in, and reject the others. So to be fertile as a squirrel and as a human, she needs both sets of DNA available but turned on exclusively when appropriate. Human females are born with all the eggs they'll ever have, I'm going to assume this is also true for squirrels, so the mechanism would be selecting between eggs. Multiple ovaries?

Presumably, her squirrel eggs are available when she's squirrel and human eggs when she''s human.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Male form would work similarly, although raising additional questions about where do the eggs go and where did the sperm com from.

... I'm actually also questioning how - and if - she can be fertile as male. The Uryuom DNA selecting mechanism might not fit into sperm. Although, maybe in distributed form ...

Also, you worry where do the eggs go when HER WEIGHT CHANGES? Maybe there is some pocket universe or additional dimensions involved.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Note also that all of the mixing and shuffling benefit of sexual reproduction is missing; she has only one set for each DNA.

Why do you think her human form looks almost as clone of original Grace? Nothing to shuffle it with.

Note that when SHE reproduces it wouldn't be problem as the other partner will give another set. And, there may be still mixing in some low-level stuff shared between all mammals, although that is probably identical already.

(Also note that her children would be chimeras, but we don't know if they would have squirrel form. Until they get it from CMD, I mean.)

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Also, it is problematic that she is female; wouldn't all of the mammalian donors be male? How is the Uryuom egg then extending the Y chromosome to be an X?

Females have two X, males have X and Y. I don't see any problem. Now, if all donors would be females and result would be male, THAT would be weird.

 

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2 hours ago, ijuin said:

By that line of logic, how are daughters ever born with DNA from mammalian donors? Approximately 50% of sperm cells in mammals have the father's X chromosome and no Y, while the other 50% have the father's Y and no X. Any typical macroscopic sample of sperm will contain millions of each, unless they have been deliberately sorted by some means.

Grace only has one human donor. That should mean only one DNA, not the normal pair.

The workings of a Uryuom egg are not spelled out in enough detail to preclude multiple DNA shenanigans, so, maybe she has multiple DNA from each donor.

There's nothing here that a bit of hand waving and a night of heavy drinking prior to writing the comic wouldn't explain.

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

In the e=mc^2 sense lot of things is material.

Indeed. Acoustic waves, for instance. Bear in mind, this is where I started from; my baseline for part of the physical universe.

 

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

My point was exactly that the next element doesn't need to be digit. It can be graph for example. You can have (potentially) infinite sequence of graphs which is completely immaterial (there is not enough material to HOLD all those graphs in any representation in universe) yet it exists. As a bonus point, every graph in that sequence may be bigger than the previous one - not that it would actually matter.

Yep, very much agree with that.

 

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

 

... so it's at least a possibility ...

 

 

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The mechanism becoming automatic doesn't mean you stopped using it. If you trained your intuition correctly, there is still logic under it.

Right, just as with driving the car, the details are no longer the focus. That is an important distinction.

 

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... ok, then I wouldn't be surprised if you stop.

However, I must say that just because it's hard to set time for something doesn't mean it's not fun.

Hmm. What else in your life are you comparing it to? You mentioned it is difficult for you to make friends ... Do you have hobbies?

 

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Presumably, her squirrel eggs are available when she's squirrel and human eggs when she''s human.

... I'm actually also questioning how - and if - she can be fertile as male. The Uryuom DNA selecting mechanism might not fit into sperm. Although, maybe in distributed form ...

Also, you worry where do the eggs go when HER WEIGHT CHANGES? Maybe there is some pocket universe or additional dimensions involved.

Why do you think her human form looks almost as clone of original Grace? Nothing to shuffle it with.

Note that when SHE reproduces it wouldn't be problem as the other partner will give another set. And, there may be still mixing in some low-level stuff shared between all mammals, although that is probably identical already.

(Also note that her children would be chimeras, but we don't know if they would have squirrel form. Until they get it from CMD, I mean.)

Females have two X, males have X and Y. I don't see any problem. Now, if all donors would be females and result would be male, THAT would be weird.

Expression of variant DNA is moderated by what? Grace should not even be viable if not for some heavy lifting by Uryuom DNA selecting mechanism hand waving. Her constituent DNA is too diverse, entire subsets must be activating and deactivating,

It is also not clear how genetic material is contributed to the Uryoum egg, but it appears to bypass sexual activity entirely.

No, not the weight so much, that was an earlier concern. She became a male at the birthday party. Presumably she had sperm at that point, and no eggs. Presumably, just prior to her transformation, she had eggs, no sperm. If this is the case, she did not merely change form, she created new partial potential entities.

She does not have all of the original Grace's DNA, regardless of how she's drawn. Possible exception, maybe a bit of the original Grace was fed to the Uryoum egg.

Mammalian females with a mother and a father have two X, males have X and Y. Grace's parentage is not so straight forward; presumably 25%, 25%, 25%, 25% is one of each.

 

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