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NP Wednesday November 9, 2016

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Must've been hard to predict she will be named Bobcat. Mr. Bobcat and Mrs. Bobcat definitely spent lot of time on that :)

She would likely have the affinity even if her first name would be Jane, although Catalina strengthened it.

I meant, is the affinity genetic still, or is it purely based on name? As you just said the fact that both her first and last names are cat related strengthened the chance of her getting the affinity, it's completely possible that if she was named Jane, she wouldn't have the affinity, so it can't be an affinity she was born with.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Of course, with Justin awakened by Pandora, it might've really be totally smooth and seamless ... but finding good example with Rhoda would be harder. What strong emotions could she have? Considering Catalina didn't see her naked yet ... hmmm ... did she forget her homework and got shame-based awakening?

2 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

The only drama in Rhoda's life that we know about is her changing-room makeout sessions with Catalina.  The way I see it, Rhoda either Awakened by getting busy with Catalina or an Immortal did it.  I don't see to many other viable options.

As was said, Rhoda and Catalina has never gotten that serious at the current NP time, unless kissing was enough to trigger it and I would hardly call that getting busy. I would think that if it was something dramatic that triggered the awakening, of course we don't know how Rhoda reacted to the realization that she made the boar grow, but that would have been too soon for her to have enough energy to awaken.

The alternative would be that Rhoda was born with a fully charged energy pool and Pandora was reeeeeeeally being lazy the day she marked her and Rhoda awakened very shortly after the boar incident.

 

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13 minutes ago, Scotty said:

The alternative would be that Rhoda was born with a fully charged energy pool and Pandora was reeeeeeeally being lazy the day she marked her and Rhoda awakened very shortly after the boar incident.

I don't know about Lazy but Pandora judged Rhoda by her passivity and missed a few bets. 

I want to compare Rhoda to Nanase, who was as close to a literal born mage as anybody could be. She's as "S-Rank" as you can get.  Nanase still needed ASMA training to Awaken.  We have no continuity to say that she could have awakened easily without it.

Rhoda cannot be a greater S-Rank talent than Nanase so Rhoda must also have needed time and use to develop her abilities.  Probably more than Nanase did.  For Rhoda to have Awakened so fast she must have used her Mark a lot and incurred some kind of Awakening event.  I don't seriously believe Rhoda and Catalina making out awakened Rhoda, but that's all the drama that we know has been in her life since she got her mark.

So when we're constrained by a short time period between Rhoda being marked and now knowing she is awakened, and no drama to precipitate an awakening and the need to practice for even a S-rank talent to awaken regardless, the odds skew pretty far toward a combination of Rhoda making a lot of use of her Mark and and Immortal awakening her.

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7 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I want to compare Rhoda to Nanase, who was as close to a literal born mage as anybody could be. She's as "S-Rank" as you can get.  Nanase still needed ASMA training to Awaken.  We have no continuity to say that she could have awakened easily without it.

There are factors to consider with Nanase though, the fact that her aura invokes royalty, the fact that her family has a long history of magic users, and the fact that her aunt is also an S rank (or higher) talent, while we don't know the circumstances of how Noriko awakened, the fact that Adrian had apparently seen her potential in high school probably meant that she too awakened at a young age. Maybe not as young as Nanase did but not far off.

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3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Rhoda talks about her mark disappearing very casually.  I take that to mean she didn't notice when it happened.  Further we have never seen any relationship drama between Rhoda and Catalina mentioned or implied and I consider drama to be essential for Rhoda to Awaken this fast after being Marked, S-rank or no.

The only drama in Rhoda's life that we know about is her changing-room makeout sessions with Catalina.  The way I see it, Rhoda either Awakened by getting busy with Catalina or an Immortal did it.  I don't see to many other viable options.

I was going to suggest that the boar incident should meet the criteria for triggering an awakening, but then i saw that the mark was definitely still there after the boar had been killed.


 

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Something else I just realized, Rhoda knew she could change her own size as well as her clothes simultaneously, but apparently she didn't think she could do that to other people, I'm mainly referring to panel 2 in the link, panel one refers to the cookie incident and might have happened before she found awakened and found out she could change her height with her clothes as well. So when Rhoda went to shrink Catalina, she might have been going on a hunch that since she was finally able to affect her own cloths along with herself, that maybe she'd be able to do others as well.

The internal monologue would have still been a great help in focusing though.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:
4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Must've been hard to predict she will be named Bobcat. Mr. Bobcat and Mrs. Bobcat definitely spent lot of time on that :)

She would likely have the affinity even if her first name would be Jane, although Catalina strengthened it.

I meant, is the affinity genetic still, or is it purely based on name? As you just said the fact that both her first and last names are cat related strengthened the chance of her getting the affinity, it's completely possible that if she was named Jane, she wouldn't have the affinity, so it can't be an affinity she was born with.

The affinity can be genetic and just strengthened by first name. Or the rules for genetics are bend similarly as on Discworld, where even adoption passes genetic traits :)

1 hour ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

The only drama in Rhoda's life that we know about is her changing-room makeout sessions with Catalina.  The way I see it, Rhoda either Awakened by getting busy with Catalina or an Immortal did it.  I don't see to many other viable options.

As was said, Rhoda and Catalina has never gotten that serious at the current NP time, unless kissing was enough to trigger it and I would hardly call that getting busy.

We can speculate that strength of emotion is not related to where are they touching, but it does seem forced.

As I said, I would assume some event which was important for Rhoda but not important for main 8 enough to be shown in comics did it.

(Hmmm ... will we see the event in some flashback as part of current storyline?)

47 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

So when we're constrained by a short time period between Rhoda being marked and now knowing she is awakened, and no drama to precipitate an awakening and the need to practice for even a S-rank talent to awaken regardless, the odds skew pretty far toward a combination of Rhoda making a lot of use of her Mark and and Immortal awakening her.

But which immortal would have the motivation?

32 minutes ago, Scotty said:
47 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I want to compare Rhoda to Nanase, who was as close to a literal born mage as anybody could be. She's as "S-Rank" as you can get.  Nanase still needed ASMA training to Awaken.  We have no continuity to say that she could have awakened easily without it.

There are factors to consider with Nanase though, the fact that her aura invokes royalty, the fact that her family has a long history of magic users, and the fact that her aunt is also an S rank (or higher) talent, while we don't know the circumstances of how Noriko awakened, the fact that Adrian had apparently seen her potential in high school probably meant that she too awakened at a young age. Maybe not as young as Nanase did but not far off.

I think Adrian is able to recognize talent even before awakening and he might either helped her awaken or asked Pandora to do it.

 

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46 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

(Hmmm ... will we see the event in some flashback as part of current storyline?)

I dunno, maybe, if Catalina does end up approaching Elliot at school and tells him about her spell, maybe Rhoda goes to Ellen as well cus logically if Elliot has magic that lets him be a superheroine, Ellen likely knows about it, also Rhoda believe that there's more to Ellen now just on the fact she mysteriously showed up in school with Grace and she didn't get any clear answer to why she'd be going to MSHS instead of MNHS with her brother.

However it goes down, Rhoda and Catalina meeting with any of the Main Eight over this could give us an explanation if we don't get one in this story.

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We don't know that emotion and immortals are the only ways to (naturally) awaken.  It could be that simply having enough energy from using the spell enough (possibly combined with some genetic tendency to be better at magic) can cause someone to awaken (with a greater requirement for awakening from this alone than is needed to awaken if something triggers it).  (And Edward did say that awakening can be triggered by training hard, though we haven't gotten any further information what that means.)  Nanase isn't necessarily a good comparison here because she didn't have a magic mark; prior to awakening, her only magic experience (that we know of) was Anime Martial Arts, which I don't think uses as much magic.

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16 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

I wonder if that means Miss Piggy would have an affinity for spells affecting boars? :danshiftyeyes:

I suspect she wouldn't even need a spell to affect a boar, in certain ways.  Ways that definitely don't insinuate anything, why would you even ask such a thing?

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14 hours ago, Scotty said:

There are factors to consider with Nanase though, the fact that her aura invokes royalty, the fact that her family has a long history of magic users, and the fact that her aunt is also an S rank (or higher) talent, while we don't know the circumstances of how Noriko awakened, the fact that Adrian had apparently seen her potential in high school probably meant that she too awakened at a young age. Maybe not as young as Nanase did but not far off.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here.  We don't have any data on how Norko awakened, when or how.   How does that affect comparing Nanase and Rhoda?  My point only rests on the idea that, magically speaking, Nanase > Rhoda.  I feel pretty secure in that.  My point holds even if Nanase = Rhoda.

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If Mama Kitsune had not turned her back on the family tradition after Noriko had abandoned her family, then Nanase might have been trained from childhood.

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2 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here.  We don't have any data on how Norko awakened, when or how.   How does that affect comparing Nanase and Rhoda?  My point only rests on the idea that, magically speaking, Nanase > Rhoda.  I feel pretty secure in that.  My point holds even if Nanase = Rhoda.

Well, you said that Nanase was only able to be awakened by an Immortal because her ASMA training built up her energy enough to do so. I'm not saying that she still would have awakened if she didn't have the ASMA training, it's quite possible Nanase would have needed to be marked as well to fight the vampire if she couldn't be awakened. Alternatively if Nanase both didn't have ASMA training and didn't go to France, she wouldn't have been marked either and wouldn't have learned about magic for a while.

As for Noriko, we don't know enough about her history to determine exactly when she awakened or how it happened, the only information we really have is that Adrian taught her and Edward and Mama Kitsune in highschool, Adrian is known to take special interest in people who show great magic potential, and it's been heavily implied that he trained at least Noriko and Edward in the ways of magic, and was considering doing the same with Noah and Grace. It would make sense that both Edward and Noriko awakened sometime either during highschool or shortly after. Also Noriko's apparent knowledge of both her's and Edward's bloodline, and seemed to have a good grasp of her family history.

2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

It might be an old enough strip to not be canon any more, but Nanase says she got a late start on magic and thus was able to get new spells relatively quickly while catching up.

I think that might have been referring more to not trying to get new spells after being awakened. After the France incident, she would have gone back to the same routine and probably didn't try to do much beyond the usual illusion stuff in ASMA class, then a year or so later she discovered the fairy avatar spell and decided it was time to work on getting more spells. She probably would have had more if she got reading her spellbook when she got back from France focused on casting other spells.

33 minutes ago, ijuin said:

If Mama Kitsune had not turned her back on the family tradition after Noriko had abandoned her family, then Nanase might have been trained from childhood.

Quite possible, even if Tedd couldn't be Noriko's apprentice, Mama Kitsune might have allowed her to teach Nanase.

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Well, you said that Nanase was only able to be awakened by an Immortal because her ASMA training built up her energy enough to do so. I'm not saying that she still would have awakened if she didn't have the ASMA training, it's quite possible Nanase would have needed to be marked as well to fight the vampire if she couldn't be awakened. Alternatively if Nanase both didn't have ASMA training and didn't go to France, she wouldn't have been marked either and wouldn't have learned about magic for a while.

You're doing a lot of speculating over what-ifs and might-have-beens and we really don't have canon information to process any of it.

How does any of this relate to comparing Rhoda and Nanase's relative "S-Rank"-ness?  Or their relative needs to magically train before Awakening?  I'm still not getting a clear sense of what you mean.

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19 hours ago, Scotty said:
19 hours ago, hkmaly said:

(Hmmm ... will we see the event in some flashback as part of current storyline?)

I dunno, maybe, if Catalina does end up approaching Elliot at school and tells him about her spell, maybe Rhoda goes to Ellen as well cus logically if Elliot has magic that lets him be a superheroine, Ellen likely knows about it, also Rhoda believe that there's more to Ellen now just on the fact she mysteriously showed up in school with Grace and she didn't get any clear answer to why she'd be going to MSHS instead of MNHS with her brother.

However it goes down, Rhoda and Catalina meeting with any of the Main Eight over this could give us an explanation if we don't get one in this story.

I don't think she still remembers that. They are more likely to contact Elliot. And while yes, that might be another opportunity to get some flashback, that would mean the flashback is important: if it isn't, then it's more likely to appear in NP.

18 hours ago, chridd said:

We don't know that emotion and immortals are the only ways to (naturally) awaken.

True. It's just theory.

18 hours ago, chridd said:

her only magic experience (that we know of) was Anime Martial Arts, which I don't think uses as much magic.

Don't uses as much magic as actual spells, nevertheless it IS enough to awaken even without immortal and/or dewitchery diamond, or at least Edward believed so.

5 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

It might be an old enough strip to not be canon any more, but Nanase says she got a late start on magic and thus was able to get new spells relatively quickly while catching up.

It was just what she THOUGH. Might easily be wrong and still be canon that she had this misconception.

3 hours ago, ijuin said:

If Mama Kitsune had not turned her back on the family tradition after Noriko had abandoned her family, then Nanase might have been trained from childhood.

True.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Quite possible, even if Tedd couldn't be Noriko's apprentice, Mama Kitsune might have allowed her to teach Nanase.

You says it as if you though that Noriko is better in teaching magic than Mama Kitsune ... :)

Personally, I think she not only knows much more about magic than Nanase thinks, but also was trained by her least favourite teacher in magic and awakened.

 

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2 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

You're doing a lot of speculating over what-ifs and might-have-beens and we really don't have canon information to process any of it.

How does any of this relate to comparing Rhoda and Nanase's relative "S-Rank"-ness?  Or their relative needs to magically train before Awakening?  I'm still not getting a clear sense of what you mean.

I'm saying we can't really compare Rhoda to Nanase as we don't know Rhoda's family history to determine if she's in the same S rank league as Nanase, I said before that Nanase may be higher than S rank if there is something higher according to Pandora (I also mentioned Edward probably uses a different scale complete with charts that would probably differentiate Rhoda's potential and Nanase's potential).

We do, however know more about Nanase's family history, I may have run off on a tangent by trying to speculate how Noriko may have awakened, but I think there's enough canon information to suggest that Noriko didn't have anyone hide the fact that there's magic and that she's a potential monster hunter, at least not like what Mama Kitsune's doing to Nanase though I do understand why Mama Kitsune might be reluctant about doing so considering how Noriko turned out.

To be honest, I think Mama Kitsune has been in a way guiding Nanase, making sure she studies hard and gets good grades, letting her take martial arts training, letting her go to France, heck her knowing that Nanase has awakened but keeping her distance from that part of Nanase is letting her naturally develop into a powerful magic user who is doing good and still keeping friends and family close, which was something that Noriko failed to do, which Mama Kitsune apparently blames Adrian for letting happen (he's her least favorite teacher after all)

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

I don't think she still remembers that. They are more likely to contact Elliot. And while yes, that might be another opportunity to get some flashback, that would mean the flashback is important: if it isn't, then it's more likely to appear in NP.

It was New Years Eve that Rhoda mentioned it to Diane which is almost 2 weeks ago comic time, it was probably several months earlier when the actual conversation with Grace happened. It might slip her mind in the excitement over Elliot being Cheerleadra, I dunno...

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

You says it as if you though that Noriko is better in teaching magic than Mama Kitsune ... :)

Maybe not, this is more of an "if things happened differently" scenario, like if Noriko wanted to carry on the family tradition and Mama Kitsune was content with being a wife and mother, they might have considered letting Nanase be Noriko's apprentice when she came of age or however the family had handled training the next in line. I guess that might be assuming there isn't a strict parent must train own offspring rule they have to follow.

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Personally, I think she not only knows much more about magic than Nanase thinks, but also was trained by her least favourite teacher in magic and awakened.

That is very possible, I think I did speculate on that earlier as well, but because of what happened with Noriko, Mama Kitsune didn't want that happening to her family, so she formulated her own method of raising Nanase to not be like Noriko.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I don't think she still remembers that. They are more likely to contact Elliot. And while yes, that might be another opportunity to get some flashback, that would mean the flashback is important: if it isn't, then it's more likely to appear in NP.

It was New Years Eve that Rhoda mentioned it to Diane which is almost 2 weeks ago comic time, it was probably several months earlier when the actual conversation with Grace happened. It might slip her mind in the excitement over Elliot being Cheerleadra, I dunno...

Well she only mentioned it because Diane asked. She may consider it suspicious, but not suspicious enough to immediately assume there is magic involved.

Given Rhoda's practically non-existent relationship with Ellen compared to Catalina's relationship with Elliot, it would make more sense for Catalina to contact Elliot either with Rhoda or to ask him to meet with her and Rhoda (... hey, what about taking also Ashley and make that double-date? There's also great place they can visit together ...) than for Rhoda to contact Ellen.

Unless, of course, would Rhoda have some reason to suspect GRACE is also involved, but that doesn't seem likely.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Personally, I think she not only knows much more about magic than Nanase thinks, but also was trained by her least favourite teacher in magic and awakened.

That is very possible, I think I did speculate on that earlier as well, but because of what happened with Noriko, Mama Kitsune didn't want that happening to her family, so she formulated her own method of raising Nanase to not be like Noriko.

I'm not sure if it's more "don't want this to happen" or "ok, it will probably happen anyway, but let's try to delay it" but yes.

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Unless, of course, would Rhoda have some reason to suspect GRACE is also involved, but that doesn't seem likely.

Rhoda and Grace meet quite often as mutual tutors.  That was, granted, last semester, but I suspect they haven't changed teacher yet.

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10 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Given Rhoda's practically non-existent relationship with Ellen compared to Catalina's relationship with Elliot, it would make more sense for Catalina to contact Elliot either with Rhoda or to ask him to meet with her and Rhoda

True, mainly because Catalina had the advantage of having known of Elliot for a while through Susan, Rhoda had just met Ellen that day, but Rhoda did ask about Ellen at some point and Ellen seems to be pretty clued...huh...I just looked up the page where Ellen and Elliot discuss Rhoda and Catalina, and re-read Dan's commentary:

" It really isn't a well kept secret that Catalina is dating Rhoda, is it? Of course, this begs the question of whether Elliot has actually met Rhoda or not. My answer is a defnitive maybe to be potentially clarified in future comics. "

So we could be getting some clarification in this story arc.

22 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Rhoda and Grace meet quite often as mutual tutors.  That was, granted, last semester, but I suspect they haven't changed teacher yet.

I imagine Rhoda and Grace still chat often even if they don't need to tutor each other anymore, they might just be study buddies now, granted that's probably not much different than tutoring, but it's probably more of a keep the grades up type of thing rather than playing catch-up.

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On 11/12/2016 at 4:35 AM, mlooney said:
On 11/12/2016 at 4:30 AM, hkmaly said:

Unless, of course, would Rhoda have some reason to suspect GRACE is also involved, but that doesn't seem likely.

Rhoda and Grace meet quite often as mutual tutors.  That was, granted, last semester, but I suspect they haven't changed teacher yet.

Of course they meet often. I just don't think Grace mentioned to her that she's part space alien and met immortal named Jerry, much less that she's dating son of head of paranormal diplomacy. Therefore, Rhoda has no reason to assume Grace knows more about magic and/or changing shape than her.

Actually, this might biggest surprise to her. She would go through some complicated scheme (especially if Catalina will come up with it) to talk with Elliot and then she finds out that if she just told Grace ...

On 11/12/2016 at 5:03 AM, Scotty said:

" It really isn't a well kept secret that Catalina is dating Rhoda, is it? Of course, this begs the question of whether Elliot has actually met Rhoda or not. My answer is a defnitive maybe to be potentially clarified in future comics. "

So we could be getting some clarification in this story arc.

Yup, most people when meeting someone sort of reveal if they already know them.

Wait. You mean current STORY arc or current NP arc? Because my "yup" is for the story one.

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5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Wait. You mean current STORY arc or current NP arc? Because my "yup" is for the story one.

I guess I should have said "the" story arc instead of "this" story arc, though I try to refer to the main story when I say story, and then NP for the NP arcs.

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10 hours ago, Scotty said:
15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Wait. You mean current STORY arc or current NP arc? Because my "yup" is for the story one.

I guess I should have said "the" story arc instead of "this" story arc, though I try to refer to the main story when I say story, and then NP for the NP arcs.

Actually, the only way to be precise is the long one: "the Sister 3 story arc".

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