NP Tues April 7 2020

[mlooney 3,417]

Here is.

I think that the dialog from the cloaked character should eliminate Noah as being the cloaked character.

 

[Scotty 1,061]

7 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Here is.

I think that the dialog from the cloaked character should eliminate Noah as being the cloaked character.

 

Not entirely sure, I mean, I don't think Noah would call Rhoda "Short-McPuppy-Girl" but at the same time Noah also thinks very highly of Grace while also not knowing everything about Grace, like the fact that Grace is ok with nudity, I'm not sure how Noah would actually react if he found out about that in canon.

The real sticking point, and really why this is so confusing, is if this is a character who we've seen before, they'd also have to be someone that Grace and Susan know mutually and the person would have to know just enough but not everything about Grace and Susan, like Susan's "Hammer Queen" title is fairly known at MNHS but not likely at MSHS so that probably narrows things down to maybe people that frequent Salty Crackers? cus Grace works there and Susan's been known to hang out there visiting Justin.

Another idea floating around Discord that this is further evidence that this is a dream and this character frequently enters people's dreams similarly to how Disco Wizard and Pandora entered Grace's dreams, maybe the character has been in a number of Grace's "video game dreams" before?

[mlooney 3,417]

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

The real sticking point, and really why this is so confusing, is if this is a character who we've seen before, they'd also have to be someone that Grace and Susan know mutually and the person would have to know just enough but not everything about Grace and Susan, like Susan's "Hammer Queen" title is fairly known at MNHS but not likely at MSHS so that probably narrows things down to maybe people that frequent Salty Crackers? cus Grace works there and Susan's been known to hang out there visiting Justin.

I don't think Noah even knows about Susan, so, yeah, assuming it a proxy for an established character, which is not likely given The Dan's habit of making new characters at random, it has to be some one that knows both schools, so a Salty Cracker employee or patron is the best bet.

[Scotty 1,061]

1 minute ago, mlooney said:

I don't think Noah even knows about Susan, so, yeah, assuming it a proxy for an established character, which is not likely given The Dan's habit of making new characters at random, it has to be some one that knows both schools, so a Salty Cracker employee or patron is the best bet.

The reason I don't think this is a completely knew character, is the fact that Dan is setting this character up as someone who knows Susan and Grace, not very well as evidence by their reaction to Grace having a thing for nudity, but well enough to know the types of characters they'd be in a game. I feel that this being an established character would result in a better payoff when the reveal is made, especially since we're spending all this time trying to guess, maybe it's someone we didn't consider but should have been obvious?  A brand new character wouldn't have that effect.

Salty Cracker patrons also consist of people we know, Duck, Bill, Drake, Larry, etc might fit.

 

Someone on Discord also mentioned that a reason it couldn't be Noah is that the character used a contraction and Noah hasn't been known to use them. However my counter argument to that is we Noah has stated that he speaks that way because it helps him focus and not lose his temper, the character we see has clearly lost their temper. As far as how they'd know each other though, either this is set ahead of current canon past the point where they have met (I would assume that if Susan and Diane were to finally talk to Adrian, they'd likely learn that he had adopted Noah) or because of this being a noncanon setting, the rules of who knows who don't apply at all.

[mlooney 3,417]

14 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Someone on Discord also mentioned that a reason it couldn't be Noah is that the character used a contraction and Noah hasn't been known to use them. However my counter argument to that is we Noah has stated that he speaks that way because it helps him focus and not lose his temper, the character we see has clearly lost their temper.

Given that all the transplant characters in this story line have looked like there main line story character, more or less, I have a real problem with it being Noah because he has two visible eyes, while having only one visible eye is the primary identifying characteristic of Noah, that and long hair.  The only reason to assume this is Noah is because Noah's Super Hero identity wears a cloak.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

So where is Grace?

As for ducks?
Yes  they are interesting and I feel like mentioning them when they pass by
Also in my neighborhood are Ibis, Egrets, Herons, Spoonbills, Seagulls, Pelicans, and Flamingos

My town is for the birds
(No really, the whole city is designated a Bird Sanctuary)

[Darth Fluffy 302]

56 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So where is Grace?

As for ducks?
Yes  they are interesting and I feel like mentioning them when they pass by
Also in my neighborhood are Ibis, Egrets, Herons, Spoonbills, Seagulls, Pelicans, and Flamingos

My town is for the birds
(No really, the whole city is designated a Bird Sanctuary)

Bird? Bird?

[hkmaly 490]

19 hours ago, Scotty said:

19 hours ago, mlooney said:

I think that the dialog from the cloaked character should eliminate Noah as being the cloaked character.

Not entirely sure, I mean, I don't think Noah would call Rhoda "Short-McPuppy-Girl" but at the same time Noah also thinks very highly of Grace while also not knowing everything about Grace, like the fact that Grace is ok with nudity, I'm not sure how Noah would actually react if he found out about that in canon.

I don't think Noah, being part Uryuom himself, would mind.

9 hours ago, mlooney said:

I don't think Noah even knows about Susan

Good point.

8 hours ago, mlooney said:

Given that all the transplant characters in this story line have looked like there main line story character, more or less, I have a real problem with it being Noah because he has two visible eyes, while having only one visible eye is the primary identifying characteristic of Noah, that and long hair.  The only reason to assume this is Noah is because Noah's Super Hero identity wears a cloak.

Yeah, it's getting really weak as a reason.

8 hours ago, Scotty said:

9 hours ago, mlooney said:

I don't think Noah even knows about Susan, so, yeah, assuming it a proxy for an established character, which is not likely given The Dan's habit of making new characters at random, it has to be some one that knows both schools, so a Salty Cracker employee or patron is the best bet.

The reason I don't think this is a completely knew character, is the fact that Dan is setting this character up as someone who knows Susan and Grace, not very well as evidence by their reaction to Grace having a thing for nudity, but well enough to know the types of characters they'd be in a game. I feel that this being an established character would result in a better payoff when the reveal is made, especially since we're spending all this time trying to guess, maybe it's someone we didn't consider but should have been obvious?  A brand new character wouldn't have that effect.

Salty Cracker patrons also consist of people we know, Duck, Bill, Drake, Larry, etc might fit.

I'm not sure if Duck, Bill, Drake or Larry would be really that much better payoff than new character.

[mlooney 3,417]

19 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

9 hours ago, mlooney said:

Given that all the transplant characters in this story line have looked like there main line story character, more or less, I have a real problem with it being Noah because he has two visible eyes, while having only one visible eye is the primary identifying characteristic of Noah, that and long hair.  The only reason to assume this is Noah is because Noah's Super Hero identity wears a cloak.

Yeah, it's getting really weak as a reason.

You say that like there is another reason.  If so, care to expand on that?

 

[Scotty 1,061]

20 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I don't think Noah, being part Uryuom himself, would mind.

That really depends, I don't think being part Uryuom has anything to do with it, it's just they their society as a whole doesn't frown upon it. If Noah grew up being told to get dressed (Noah stated that his father was bitter, might have been pretty strict too) Noah might have developed a sense that nudity was bad, where as Grace likely didn't get that, well, she might have been told that she needed to wear clothes, but never told why and never in a tone that suggested that it was bad to not wear clothes.

30 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I'm not sure if Duck, Bill, Drake or Larry would be really that much better payoff than new character.

For Duck, Bill and Drake, they can be the type that, given their age, would become infatuated with pretty girls like Grace, we know Duck had a thing for Nanase for a while. We have the "Fun at Work" show how they can be with Grace, heck Drake would fit here best of the three, considering you don't see Ducks eyes at all and Bill isn't as thin as this character.

[hkmaly 490]

55 minutes ago, mlooney said:

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

9 hours ago, mlooney said:

Given that all the transplant characters in this story line have looked like there main line story character, more or less, I have a real problem with it being Noah because he has two visible eyes, while having only one visible eye is the primary identifying characteristic of Noah, that and long hair.  The only reason to assume this is Noah is because Noah's Super Hero identity wears a cloak.

Yeah, it's getting really weak as a reason.

You say that like there is another reason.  If so, care to expand on that?

Do I?

I meant that I agree that our only reason for assuming the shadow figure is Noah is basically that Noah wears a cloak, that otherwise the figure doesn't look as him.

And that is quite weak reason.

31 minutes ago, Scotty said:

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

I don't think Noah, being part Uryuom himself, would mind.

That really depends, I don't think being part Uryuom has anything to do with it, it's just they their society as a whole doesn't frown upon it. If Noah grew up being told to get dressed (Noah stated that his father was bitter, might have been pretty strict too) Noah might have developed a sense that nudity was bad, where as Grace likely didn't get that, well, she might have been told that she needed to wear clothes, but never told why and never in a tone that suggested that it was bad to not wear clothes.

... true, it's cultural, not genetical, so his upbringing matters more than his species.

31 minutes ago, Scotty said:

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

I'm not sure if Duck, Bill, Drake or Larry would be really that much better payoff than new character.

For Duck, Bill and Drake, they can be the type that, given their age, would become infatuated with pretty girls like Grace, we know Duck had a thing for Nanase for a while. We have the "Fun at Work" show how they can be with Grace, heck Drake would fit here best of the three, considering you don't see Ducks eyes at all and Bill isn't as thin as this character.

I meant that they are side characters and lot of readers would be like "who is that?".

For established character providing better payoff it should be character established little more. But, obviously, that gives quite limited list and most of that list wouldn't be surprised that Grace prefers nudity and wouldn't think it makes her pervert.

... wait. Suddenly, the option of that character being ZEUS started to make lot of sense to me. He IS established enough to provide better payoff, he knows both Susan and Grace BUT may not know about Grace's nudity (Jerry likely didn't considered it worth mentioning, IF he knew that himself) and as fairy, there would be reason why he would have meta knowledge (and resistance to "slow" spell).

[mlooney 3,417]

2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Suddenly, the option of that character being ZEUS started to make lot of sense to me.

Of all the "it must be a character that we know" options this one makes the most sense.

That being said, assuming The Dan keeps to his normal bag of tricks, it's a new character.

 

[Scotty 1,061]

1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

... wait. Suddenly, the option of that character being ZEUS started to make lot of sense to me. He IS established enough to provide better payoff, he knows both Susan and Grace BUT may not know about Grace's nudity (Jerry likely didn't considered it worth mentioning, IF he knew that himself) and as fairy, there would be reason why he would have meta knowledge.

Only thing about Zeus is he'd have to disregard his vow as Susan's ally in order to not only talk to Susan like this, but favor Grace more than Susan.

[Scotty 1,061]

1 minute ago, mlooney said:

Of all the "it must be a character that we know" options this one makes the most sense.

That being said, assuming The Dan keeps to his normal bag of tricks, it's a new character.

 

If we're thinking Immortals here, I gave my reason for it not being Zeus already.

Pandora thinks highly of Grace because of how good she's been for Tedd, but also Susan's family so that likely keeps even her new incarnation out.

Hanma thinks highly of Susan for being her guide in making sure her boardgame was morally good and such.

Voltaire.....would be much worse than this.

Helena and/or Demetrius the debate rages on as to whether these two are good or bad, I just don't see them doing something like this naturally, besides it seems like they'd have spent enough time at Tedd's place (because of Elliot visiting) to likely know about Grace's opinion on nudity.

[mlooney 3,417]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Only thing about Zeus is he'd have to disregard his vow as Susan's ally in order to not only talk to Susan like this, but favor Grace more than Susan.

Which tends to reduce the chance of it being Zeus.  I still think it's A New Character.

[hkmaly 490]

22 hours ago, Scotty said:

Only thing about Zeus is he'd have to disregard his vow as Susan's ally in order to not only talk to Susan like this, but favor Grace more than Susan.

Not really - IMHO what he said wasn't that bad he wouldn't be able to call himself her ally. And remember that he doesn't really LIKE Susan and he hates his older self for giving vow like that.

22 hours ago, Scotty said:

Helena and/or Demetrius the debate rages on as to whether these two are good or bad, I just don't see them doing something like this naturally, besides it seems like they'd have spent enough time at Tedd's place (because of Elliot visiting) to likely know about Grace's opinion on nudity.

The person is more likely to be man. And Demetrius wasn't ever seen without Helena around ...

21 hours ago, mlooney said:

Which tends to reduce the chance of it being Zeus.  I still think it's A New Character.

.... still, yes. As I said, it doesn't seem there would be anyone who would be worth to be used in this and would match all clues.

I'm still going to say "I was saying that" if it turns out to be Zeus.

[mlooney 3,417]

1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

21 hours ago, mlooney said:

Which tends to reduce the chance of it being Zeus.  I still think it's A New Character.

.... still, yes. As I said, it doesn't seem there would be anyone who would be worth to be used in this and would match all clues.

I'm still going to say "I was saying that" if it turns out to be Zeus.

And assuming it's not a new character and it's Zeus, I'm going to claim I though that was the best option for a known character.

Still think it's a new character.

[Scotty 1,061]

41 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Not really - IMHO what he said wasn't that bad he wouldn't be able to call himself her ally. And remember that he doesn't really LIKE Susan and he hates his older self for giving vow like that.

Where did Zeus say he didn't LIKE Susan? The only complaint I heard was that he was missing out on partying, that doesn't mean he doesn't like Susan.

 

[hkmaly 490]

36 minutes ago, Scotty said:

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Not really - IMHO what he said wasn't that bad he wouldn't be able to call himself her ally. And remember that he doesn't really LIKE Susan and he hates his older self for giving vow like that.

Where did Zeus say he didn't LIKE Susan? The only complaint I heard was that he was missing out on partying, that doesn't mean he doesn't like Susan.

Closest to explicitly say it would probably be here. He's actually warmed up to her a little before your link ... but still, he's doing all that "ally" stuff just because he must, and feels about this obligation exactly how would one expect from teenager.

[Scotty 1,061]

12 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Closest to explicitly say it would probably be here. He's actually warmed up to her a little before your link ... but still, he's doing all that "ally" stuff just because he must, and feels about this obligation exactly how would one expect from teenager.

I'm pretty certain he's not calling Susan (or Elliot for that matter) clumsy though, either he's calling himself that because he almost got discovered if he spilled the soda and realized he wasn't disguised well enough, or that spill was already there and he's cursing himself for making a bigger deal out of it than he needed too, I mean seriously, the worst that would happen is Susan steps in it and it gets on her shoes and if her shoes have good soles on them, there shouldn't be much danger of slipping.

Zeus was also clearly in panic mode at the time because Pandora had caught him at Susan's and threatened to hurt him if anything bad happened, so it's not that he's mad about Susan, it's the situation he's in.

[mlooney 3,417]

8 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Zeus was also clearly in panic mode at the time because Pandora had caught him at Susan's and threatened to hurt him if anything bad happened, so it's not that he's mad about Susan, it's the situation he's in.

I suspect it was "tear him to shreds" not just hurt.

[Scotty 1,061]

33 minutes ago, mlooney said:

I suspect it was "tear him to shreds" not just hurt.

She might have if she initially assumed Zeus was involved in the earlier mall incident. I think it was good that she chose to question him first rather than just rip him apart.

[mlooney 3,417]

8 minutes ago, Scotty said:

She might have if she initially assumed Zeus was involved in the earlier mall incident. I think it was good that she chose to question him first rather than just rip him apart.

I still suspect that the threat given to Zeus, even after he explained why he was in Susan's room was a little more than "I'll hurt you".  More like "I'll force a reset on your ass".

[Scotty 1,061]

1 hour ago, mlooney said:

I still suspect that the threat given to Zeus, even after he explained why he was in Susan's room was a little more than "I'll hurt you".  More like "I'll force a reset on your ass".

Might still have been lenient compared to what she could have done if she had caught Voltaire before she was reset.

[mlooney 3,417]

Just now, Scotty said:

Might still have been lenient compared to what she could have done if she had caught Voltaire before she was reset.

True.  One of the sad things, among many, of Pandora's reset is she didn't get a chance to kill Voltaire.