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mlooney

Story, Monday 20 April 2020

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46 minutes ago, mlooney said:

this makes the OT3 into a weird 5 way.  I say weird because of the whole "Elliot thinks of Sarah like a sister" thing.

That is only weird if you have  a specific view of familial relations

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11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

What's more likely is that it will be non-trivial to set up any believable reason why would be Tedd visiting actual government facility before finishing college, so they will either just fund more stuff for his basement or set up something in the school Tedd and all of the others would "by chance" go to.

No problem with him in a government-run research facility. The public story is that it's the sort of job a college student can get. He sweeps floors and empties wastebaskets. Later he gets an internship as a junior assistant lab tech and works his way up from there.

Also, the facility is funded by a private foundation. The government has nothing to do with it.

According to the public story, that is.

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1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

Also, the facility is funded by a private foundation. The government has nothing to do with it.

According to the public story, that is.

Sounds like a plan to me.  Yo! The Dan!  Make this happen...

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3 hours ago, mlooney said:

Sounds like a plan to me.  Yo! The Dan!  Make this happen...

Personally, it'd be cool if Ellen and Nanase expanded on the "meddling teenagers" gig to include the others and they start their own paranormal detective agency, with magic being free to use, and once Tedd's figured out how to make things safer, I don't expect governments to have the monopoly on that sort of thing.

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4 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Personally, it'd be cool if Ellen and Nanase expanded on the "meddling teenagers" gig to include the others and they start their own paranormal detective agency, with magic being free to use, and once Tedd's figured out how to make things safer, I don't expect governments to have the monopoly on that sort of thing.

As a long time fan of the Angel series, I support the idea of paranormal detectives.

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18 hours ago, Scotty said:
18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

That's not what I was suggesting. I was suggesting that DGB will simply secretly influence normal college, just like they rigged presumably normal lottery to give money to Ellen.

To be honest, it feels like that would just add more things Dan would have to worry about keeping track of to an already full plate, I don't think he'd want to just go "oh, the government is basically pulling the strings while the gang goes through college" and not even show what that means in their day to day lives, like would they basically get fast tracked through, not having to worry about grades, all because Tedd's been tasked with figuring out how to make magic safe?

They don't need to finish the college successfully. They only need to not get thrown out too soon. And, like, they would end up living together despite the college normally putting students in rooms randomly.

18 hours ago, Scotty said:

I also really dislike the idea that because they have magic experience and that Tedd's dad is connected with a government organization, that they're automatically gonna get shoehorned into government work. There's that warning that Pandora gave Sarah about what might happened if Edward or anyone else in DGB finding out about her spell, but I'm more inclined to believe that could be a plot point where an attempt might be made, but ultimately doesn't succeed. If anyone decides to work for DGB it'd be by choice, not duress. But maybe that's just my feelings about it.

The fact Pandora formulated it as a warning notwithstanding, I suspect that

1) there is no way DGB could miss employing at least Tedd, if not all of them

2) they wouldn't really need to convince him as Tedd will totally volunteer to do it on his own. Oh wait she already did.

Also, my headcanon is that the person Pandora was speaking about was agent Cranium and that agent Cranium considers it second best thing ever happening to her (first thing being agent Wolf saying yes).

Seriously, there was a time when I though that Arthur will turn out to be reason why Tedd won't join DGB, but he did very good impression on Tedd and probably plans to retire soon anyway.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Personally, it'd be cool if Ellen and Nanase expanded on the "meddling teenagers" gig to include the others and they start their own paranormal detective agency, with magic being free to use, and once Tedd's figured out how to make things safer, I don't expect governments to have the monopoly on that sort of thing.

Yeah, that's where I though it would lead with Arthur not being nice enough. And I wouldn't complain.

15 hours ago, ijuin said:

Well yeah, it's not like any standard sized bed would hold more than four normal-sized adults at most.

With TF gun, Ellen's beams and Rhoda that's not even problem.

6 hours ago, Don Edwards said:
18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

What's more likely is that it will be non-trivial to set up any believable reason why would be Tedd visiting actual government facility before finishing college, so they will either just fund more stuff for his basement or set up something in the school Tedd and all of the others would "by chance" go to.

No problem with him in a government-run research facility. The public story is that it's the sort of job a college student can get. He sweeps floors and empties wastebaskets. Later he gets an internship as a junior assistant lab tech and works his way up from there.

Also, the facility is funded by a private foundation. The government has nothing to do with it.

According to the public story, that is.

Hmmmm ... is really believable that college student would be sweeping floors?
The internship as a junior assistant would be something which IMHO can totally work but not immediately, that it would need to happen like next year or two years later.

 

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7 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Hmmmm ... is really believable that college student would be sweeping floors?

Certainly. Remember, this is just starting out - as in, a kid that just graduated from high school a couple months ago and has no documented work experience whatsoever.

7 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The internship as a junior assistant would be something which IMHO can totally work but not immediately, that it would need to happen like next year or two years later.

That's why the job as a "janitor" (or something equivalent). It gets him INTO the lab, presumably in sight of the scientists working there so he can display an aptitude that gets him an internship earlier than is normal for such things.

And a lab funded by a private foundation that doesn't seek government grants would be ABLE to be more flexible about qualifications for an internship. Less bureaucratic lumber in the lower intestine.

(Remember, this is a cover story. Clearly, he's already a lead researcher - but with a limited selection of test subjects and an equipment budget of diddley over squat.)

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16 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

That's why the job as a "janitor" (or something equivalent). It gets him INTO the lab, presumably in sight of the scientists working there so he can display an aptitude that gets him an internship earlier than is normal for such things.

That's the part which seems unlikely to me. I suspect that most scientist won't look at janitor at all and that such work would have roughly same value in helping to get internship as selling hotdogs in front of the lab, if not smaller.
But, like, maybe in US it really works? Instead of something like this teacher attitude about janitors?

16 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

(Remember, this is a cover story. Clearly, he's already a lead researcher - but with a limited selection of test subjects and an equipment budget of diddley over squat.)

... or, like, "works" at least enough to be usable as cover story.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

That's the part which seems unlikely to me. I suspect that most scientist won't look at janitor at all and that such work would have roughly same value in helping to get internship as selling hotdogs in front of the lab, if not smaller.

Very much depends on the lab - and within the labs where it's plausible, on the individual scientists.

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Tedd would not need to be the literal Janitor

Internships can be offered to young people without the academic qualifications to hold a regular job in the facility

And yes, more than a few interns get stuck on bottle washer and coffee retrieval duty

But the purpose of the internship is to give a student practical experience in a field that would not necessarily be taught in a classroom

If Tedd and the people in-the-know kept up the charade where Tedd would appear to be making suggestions or asking questions, then Tedd could actually be directing the research

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36 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

If Tedd and the people in-the-know kept up the charade where Tedd would appear to be making suggestions or asking questions, then Tedd could actually be directing the research

How many researcher do you think this lab would have?  The whole reason Tedd is getting a lab is because he is the only one qualified to do so.

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We don't know that he's the only one qualified. He's somewhat-uniquely qualified - being a seer - but they may have other researchers working without that advantage, by other means such as that magic-detection wand Mr. V used a while back.

For that matter, there may be other researchers who are seers. Remember, the requirements to be  included in that conference call with the Will of Magic were (a) being a seer, (2) being aware of magic, and (III) NOT having figured out or otherwise knowing the role of seers in such conference calls. So DGB could have seers who failed on that third requirement.

And the researchers, seers or not, could have lab assistants and volunteer test subjects.

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3 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Tedd would not need to be the literal Janitor

Internships can be offered to young people without the academic qualifications to hold a regular job in the facility

And yes, more than a few interns get stuck on bottle washer and coffee retrieval duty

But the purpose of the internship is to give a student practical experience in a field that would not necessarily be taught in a classroom

Yes, I find more likely interns are used for stuff like bottle washing and coffee retrieval than janitors being upgraded to interns.

3 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

If Tedd and the people in-the-know kept up the charade where Tedd would appear to be making suggestions or asking questions, then Tedd could actually be directing the research

That would be unnecessarily hard. I expect people in the lab would know Tedd is directing the research.

54 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

We don't know that he's the only one qualified. He's somewhat-uniquely qualified - being a seer - but they may have other researchers working without that advantage, by other means such as that magic-detection wand Mr. V used a while back.

For that matter, there may be other researchers who are seers. Remember, the requirements to be  included in that conference call with the Will of Magic were (a) being a seer, (2) being aware of magic, and (III) NOT having figured out or otherwise knowing the role of seers in such conference calls. So DGB could have seers who failed on that third requirement.

And the researchers, seers or not, could have lab assistants and volunteer test subjects.

I'm pretty sure DGB does NOT have anyone who would know how the seers works because such knowledge wouldn't remain hidden from Arthur, who didn't even know he's seer despite knowing he's wandmaker. And obviously any magic researcher for DGB would know that magic exists.

However, I totally agree with possibility of other researchers. Tedd has unique qualification and it makes sense he would lead the research, but there is still lot of work which can be done by other people, saving Tedd time. Remember how Tedd complained about having just one test subject for the watches? Well, next time, he can just hand the watches with instructions to researcher and that researcher will do the experiment with dozen people.

Some experiments may need him to look at the spell in action, but not all.

Also, he totally needs someone just for testing that something works for everyone and not just him. Note how surprised he was that the glove only worked for him.

(And, well, it may be easier to get test subjects when it wouldn't be teenage genderfluid researcher doing the experiments on them. Some people might suspect Tedd is pervert.)

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On 4/21/2020 at 7:21 PM, hkmaly said:

Hmmmm ... is really believable that college student would be sweeping floors?

In my experience, yes. I was a janitor in my early 20s, also pumped gas while at university (dating myself, 'pumped gas' is no longer a thing); my ex did retail sales. '... am a college student' doesn't count for much here prior to graduation, unless you have a formal internship, and even then you are considered to be an under-skilled temp and given lighter duties. For kids on work study (a form of financial aid, the school provides a job, usually as part of a package including an outright grant, work study, and a loan) a typical job is cafeteria service. This may be due the image that students attend college to party, not to learn; this is true enough to case a pall on the more serious students (dare I say majority?)

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10 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
On 4/22/2020 at 1:21 AM, hkmaly said:

Hmmmm ... is really believable that college student would be sweeping floors?

In my experience, yes. I was a janitor in my early 20s, also pumped gas while at university (dating myself, 'pumped gas' is no longer a thing); my ex did retail sales. '... am a college student' doesn't count for much here prior to graduation, unless you have a formal internship, and even then you are considered to be an under-skilled temp and given lighter duties. For kids on work study (a form of financial aid, the school provides a job, usually as part of a package including an outright grant, work study, and a loan) a typical job is cafeteria service. This may be due the image that students attend college to party, not to learn; this is true enough to case a pall on the more serious students (dare I say majority?)

Somehow, I see cafeteria and retail sales much more believable.

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13 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Somehow, I see cafeteria and retail sales much more believable.

I attended a University, Penn State main campus, with as many students as there were people in the town. This is in a fairly isolated area in central Pennsylvania. There was much competition for jobs.

The number of students played hell with local elections.

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10 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:
On 4/24/2020 at 0:23 AM, hkmaly said:

Somehow, I see cafeteria and retail sales much more believable.

I attended a University, Penn State main campus, with as many students as there were people in the town. This is in a fairly isolated area in central Pennsylvania. There was much competition for jobs.

The number of students played hell with local elections.

Hmmm ... didn't take this into account. I'm not used to so big universities in so small towns.

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If Tedd was hired as an intern most, or even all, of the people actually working in the lab might know that Tedd's authority and expertise extend beyond the Intern title
The charade is for the benefit of the outsiders and peripheral personnel who inevitably are a part of the environment

It is not unheard of for a college freshman, or even a high school student, to have an internship

And if we want to use the entire fictional envelope, Iron Man once offered a summer internship at Stark Industries to Phineas and Ferb in the Mission Marvel episode
So Tedd's age and lack of advanced degrees does not need to be an issue

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6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Hmmm ... didn't take this into account. I'm not used to so big universities in so small towns.

Some college towns are basically just "company towns" for the university--housing and all of the peripheral support services for the university staff and their families and the students. Anybody not affiliated with the university (or a household member thereof) is likely providing retail, restaurants, civic services, etc. for those who are.

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7 hours ago, ijuin said:

Some college towns are basically just "company towns" for the university--housing and all of the peripheral support services for the university staff and their families and the students. Anybody not affiliated with the university (or a household member thereof) is likely providing retail, restaurants, civic services, etc. for those who are.

The town where I currently live is real close to that.  While Pitt State isn't really all that big of a school, it's still the largest single employer in Pittsburg, KS.

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