Comic for Wednesday January 12, 2022

[Darth Fluffy 302]

Comic for Wednesday January 12, 2022

I'm pretty sure I'm a minority, but I don't like where this went for Elliot. Being a vigilante is not generally a good thing. The problem is people with shoddy moral compasses cast themselves in the role, and rationalize how the insane crap they are doing is somehow justified for the greater good. And we happen to be just past the anniversary of the perfect illustration.

Granted, every now and then you get a genuine hero willing to stand up for others in genuine peril. Elliot is genuinely starting from there. But he is a kid, portrayed as not having a deep grasp on social interaction, in this comic and in previous, to some extent in the entire run of the comic. I wonder if his folks didn't introduce him to martial arts primarily for the structure and rules.

 

[ijuin 572]

Given Elliot’s shirt in panels 3-4, he seems to have thought that he was Frank Castle. I think that he would do well to read up on Peter Parker instead.

[ChronosCat 155]

4 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I'm pretty sure I'm a minority, but I don't like where this went for Elliot. Being a vigilante is not generally a good thing.

Being a vigilante is not a good thing, but Elliot not having always been a perfectly behaved child (and even liking violence) does make his history more interesting.

(Also, adults tend to do a bad job keeping kids from bullying one another. While bullying the bullies isn't the best solution, Elliot protecting the victims of bullying was a good thing.)

[mlooney 3,417]

I'm glad that The Dan didn't give Tony a tragic backstory to explain why he is a jerk.  Sometimes a gay bashing jerk is just a jerk or worse.

 

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

Certainly this is not Tony's fault

At least not from Tony's point of view

No, this is yet another failure on Elliot's part

If Elliot had been a better friend to Tony, Tony would have been significantly less likely to take interest in what other kids were saying about them

Apparently a limited but unspecified number of sessions wrestling and rough housing in the school yard was not enough time for Elliot to access the Magic of Friendship

Yes, this is entirely Elliot's problem

[Darth Fluffy 302]

31 minutes ago, mlooney said:

I'm glad that The Dan didn't give Tony a tragic backstory to explain why he is a jerk.  Sometimes a gay bashing jerk is just a jerk or worse.

Slightly tragic. He may have learned gay bashing from being gay bashed about wrestling with Elliot, as in, it might not even have occurred to him without that.

Also, I'm not well informed about the topic, but it seems like kids that bully are also bullied closer to home, perhaps by sibs or parents. Tony is tragic, even if he is a jerk; so was MacBeth. So was Nixon.

Was Tony picking on Tedd thinking "This kid (boy or girl) is too shy", "This boy is too feminine", or "This girl is ??? (masculine? ugly? Asian?"? Or did he even have a rationale? I don't recall that it was stated, recently or in the earlier comics, from his point of view. I recall, "Elliot defended Tedd" back in the day, and assumed it was about gay bashing, but apparently not, Elliot thought he was defending a girl. 

I'm also slightly curious now how Sarah and Elliot bonded. Elliot at this age does not seem like he would appeal to her as a companion, unless she was very different from the Sarah we've seen. Recall, she had never been to his dojo. (Which is odd, if they were close.)

Assuming she was an artist from a young age, he would have seemed disruptive. Maybe her folks saw him as a way to get her to set down the art and be outdoors?

[mlooney 3,417]

As I recall The Dan saying, Elliot and Sarah were friends from there parents being friends and that they spent a lot of their toddler years together.  Kids tossed together like that either end up as fast friends or bitter enemies.  Speaking from personal experience here. 

[The Old Hack 2,448]

On 1/12/2022 at 5:02 PM, Darth Fluffy said:

Also, I'm not well informed about the topic, but it seems like kids that bully are also bullied closer to home, perhaps by sibs or parents. Tony is tragic, even if he is a jerk; so was MacBeth. So was Nixon.

The cycle of abuse. *sigh* It is an extremely complex issue. Unfortunately, discussing whether a bully's backstory is tragic or not does not really deal with the main issue, which is that the bully is presently a bully.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

The cycle of abuse. *sigh* It is an extremely complex issue. Unfortunately, discussing whether a bully's backstory is tragic or not does not really deal with the main issue, which is that the bully is presently a bully.

"Tony is a bully" is evident. There does not seem to be disagreement about that. There is little information content in stating it.

Background is interesting. Potential to change and develop is interesting. His backstory does not excuse his behavior can be an interesting statement.

Dan has taken Diane, who was a negative character, and has spun her as a positive character. Could he do the same with Tony? Plausibly? I think it's easy to see that he could. I could be wrong. the room for variant opinions and discussion make it interesting.

"the bully is presently a bully" - is there a goal related to this? Change him? Punish him? Ostracize him?

[ijuin 572]

I still want to see Tedd make good on that long-ago promise to girlify Tony for a day.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

"the bully is presently a bully" - is there a goal related to this? Change him? Punish him? Ostracize him?

I explained myself poorly and posted without thinking about the topic, and I apologize for that. I was speaking of bullies in general, not of Tony specifically; it is indeed valid to speculate how his bullying actions might have been born. As to what may be done about the bully, which action may be taken is uncertain to me; as I stated earlier it is a very complex matter far beyond my field of expertise. All I know is that the current general practice of simply ignoring the matter and allowing the children themselves to sort things out (or more likely, not) is suboptimal.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

2 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

I explained myself poorly and posted without thinking about the topic, and I apologize for that. I was speaking of bullies in general, not of Tony specifically; it is indeed valid to speculate how his bullying actions might have been born. As to what may be done about the bully, which action may be taken is uncertain to me; as I stated earlier it is a very complex matter far beyond my field of expertise. All I know is that the current general practice of simply ignoring the matter and allowing the children themselves to sort things out (or more likely, not) is suboptimal.

Having been a child and seen how kids behave first hand, I have to agree with you.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

12 hours ago, ijuin said:

I still want to see Tedd make good on that long-ago promise to girlify Tony for a day.

If you are aware of what is happening and agree to it, transformation can be fun

But imposing a physical change on someone, like Tony, already inclined to violence would seem likely to trigger a most dangerous outburst

Homicide and/or suicide would certainly be possible

 . . . 

No, the best realistic result is just to convince the bully to not act like a bully

Whether or not the bully ever really understands why they should not act like a bully is entirely up to them

[ijuin 572]

15 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

No, the best realistic result is just to convince the bully to not act like a bully

Whether or not the bully ever really understands why they should not act like a bully is entirely up to them

Unfortunately, just about anything that would make the bully care will involve taking his dominance away for him at least briefly. Habitual bullies tend to lack the empathy necessary for them to interested in reducing the suffering experienced by their victims, and thus will only respond constructively to threats to their own comfort.

[mlooney 3,417]

As I've said before, sometimes a jerk is just a jerk.  Not all bullies can be made to not be bullies, even after adulthood.  See domestic abuse, assault charges and general violent  crimes as to what I mean.