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      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
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Stature

Story Wednesday March 16, 2016

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10 hours ago, partner555 said:
10 hours ago, partner555 said:

 

Oh dear, an argument over semantics.

Is this a look at Griffin Politics?

 

1 hour ago, Sjmcc13 said:

Am I the only won who feels that Andrea and Tara are interacting like a married Tedd and Elliot?

There are certain similarities to the "Strip Scrabble" argument.

Perhaps Elliot can now understand Sarah's frustration with the boys' reaction when she carried Grace home from the mall.

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What a way to drag out this conversation before giving us a real explanation, Dan. You have my respect. This is hilarious.

I absolutely love how Tara is the strong one and Andrea is the smart one. It would, of course, be even better if Fluttershy or Pinkie Pie were fighters, but I'll take what I can get.

22 hours ago, hkmaly said:

And, I would say that the probability of Andrea staying here because of vampire went even lower. She would likely mention it.

Agreed. Looks like the vampire was just a plot point after all and doesn't need any more explaining.

18 hours ago, Wildcat said:

Two sides of the same coin. One world with two halves. Magic flows between them, the question is how intertwined they are in addition to that.

It could be that all they share is a pool of magic and a common barrier of sorts, but I doubt that. Magic may be what underlies physics in this world, or it could be just another form of energy (with a mind). Events on one side may affect probabilities on the other, or events more directly...

This is what I thought of as well. Tara and Andrea are not from a different universe or dimension. It is exactly like they've said, they are from the first half of this world. The halves are connected by magic, but are otherwise very different from each other.

As for events on one side affecting what happens on the other, the first thing that came to my mind was the Distortion World in the eleventh Pokémon movie. Destroying something in the Distortion World would also destroy something in the Pokémon world and destroying something in the Pokémon world would create poisonous gas bubbles in the Distortion world.

(I obviously haven't played as many video games or watched as many shows as you guys, so please excuse me constantly bringing up the few I have.)

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Wow, this forum sure looks different from the last time I posted here. I even had to create a new account. In any case, I like how Tara and Andrea bicker like an old married couple. Probably because they are an old married couple, but still. So if I understood correctly, they technically live in the same reality, but it's still kind of separate from our main characters' reality. This makes me wonder how they'll even "go home"? Do they live on the spiritual plane like the immortals do or is it just another dimension entirely? This thing just gets more complicated the more we know about it.

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2 minutes ago, Wildcat said:

Yeah, the forums died and had to be rebuilt

Well, I guess I like the new layout. It's very Web 2.0 and it reminds me of Disqus. I just hope that a few bugs, like me being unable to enter my birthday, will be sorted out eventually.

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12 minutes ago, Ecthudan said:

Well, I guess I like the new layout. It's very Web 2.0 and it reminds me of Disqus. I just hope that a few bugs, like me being unable to enter my birthday, will be sorted out eventually.

Don't worry, the forum is still in development, so anything you like can still disappear and new bugs can surface - I mean, the bugs may be fixed and the layout may be even more improved.

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It sounds like magic is pretty commonplace in the first half of the universe, while it is secret in the second. Did magic have a falling-out with it's self over whether or not it wanted to be common-knowledge and split in half?

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2 hours ago, Changer said:

It sounds like magic is pretty commonplace in the first half of the universe, while it is secret in the second. Did magic have a falling-out with it's self over whether or not it wanted to be common-knowledge and split in half?

Actually, the disco wizard said Magic has no desire to go mainstream and make itself available to everyone. The idea is that magic is using the secrecy to limit number of magic users, and if the secrecy would stop working, it would reset and choose different option how to limit access.

It's possible that it already happened in the "first half". Or, maybe the magic is actually shared and the difference is that EXISTENCE of magic is public knowledge in "first half" - but how easy it is to get magic is still secret.

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13 hours ago, Sjmcc13 said:

Am I the only won who feels that Andrea and Tara are interacting like a married Tedd and Elliot?

If it weren't for the idea that they're from the other half of EGS-land, I'd be down for the idea of them being alternate universe alternates of Tedd and Elliot/Ellen.

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:
3 hours ago, Changer said:

It sounds like magic is pretty commonplace in the first half of the universe, while it is secret in the second. Did magic have a falling-out with it's self over whether or not it wanted to be common-knowledge and split in half?

Actually, the disco wizard said Magic has no desire to go mainstream and make itself available to everyone.

I think what changer was saying is that there may have been one entity that was "Magic" in the start...and then at some point part of it wished to change to make magic available to all, while part wanted the opposite. The end result is either a split creating two magics, or a magic with literal multiple personality disorder.

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3 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

The first half of Apple was everything before the Macintosh.

Nah, the first half of apple was everything after the discovery of gravity.

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13 hours ago, Matoyak said:
On 3/17/2016 at 9:23 AM, Sjmcc13 said:

Am I the only won who feels that Andrea and Tara are interacting like a married Tedd and Elliot?

If it weren't for the idea that they're from the other half of EGS-land, I'd be down for the idea of them being alternate universe alternates of Tedd and Elliot/Ellen.

What's to stop them from being "the first half" of Elliot and Tedd?  

 ........ Not that I think they are mind you. They're similar enough to be alternates, but since they're not that, I think too many of the details are different to be quite as intertwined as first and second halves. Also, I'd think they'd notice.

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I think that the two "halves" are really co-equal, and the naming of their own half as the "first" one is simple cultural provincialism--neither is actually "first" or "second" except for the order in which a given society discovered them, sort of like how the "New World" was always here even though the people of the "Old World" didn't know about it.

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18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Actually, the disco wizard said Magic has no desire to go mainstream and make itself available to everyone. The idea is that magic is using the secrecy to limit number of magic users, and if the secrecy would stop working, it would reset and choose different option how to limit access.

It's possible that it already happened in the "first half". Or, maybe the magic is actually shared and the difference is that EXISTENCE of magic is public knowledge in "first half" - but how easy it is to get magic is still secret.

This is really just going by the fact that Tara and Andrea exist, what they've said so far, and that they don't seem to be aware of the secrecy of magic in the main eight's half of the world, but I'm thinking that magic is much more commonplace in their half at least the knowledge of it is. They associate people with strong magic as royalty, so the people in their world must know that their leaders have magic.

The not being aware of the secrecy towards magic is actually a tricky one, I mean Tara should have seen that Elliot was trying to hide who he really was not just from her, but from everyone in the mall, but then Tara probably assumed that the knowledge of magic was more common because of the fact that Cheerleadra wasn't worried about people seeing a magical flying woman.

As for magic having nor desire to go mainstream, I'm wondering if even though the griffin's half of the world, magic is known, but regulated, like not everyone uses it or has to go through special training and stuff to be able to use it, but in the main eight's half, there is no regulation beyond DGB and DGB is proving to be ineffective in maintaining secrecy about it. The buildup of energy in Moperville is not only allowing people who've been marked to use magic with ease, but it's also drawing in aberrations and other mages, the real worry is if it becomes known how easy it is to get magic, the number of magic users would spike in a very short period of time and the chaos that ensues would likely be devastating because there is no proper regulation. That's probably why magic doesn't want to go mainstream, it had a balance, but now the balance is being thrown off by the clog..

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2 hours ago, ijuin said:

I think that the two "halves" are really co-equal, and the naming of their own half as the "first" one is simple cultural provincialism--neither is actually "first" or "second" except for the order in which a given society discovered them, sort of like how the "New World" was always here even though the people of the "Old World" didn't know about it.

Certainly. But it's possible that the "first half" will hold just like the "New World" did hold.

(Although ... technically, Humans are from Africa and "New World" was really colonized later, after Europe and Asia, most likely over Bering Strait.)

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

As for magic having nor desire to go mainstream, I'm wondering if even though the griffin's half of the world, magic is known, but regulated, like not everyone uses it or has to go through special training and stuff to be able to use it, but in the main eight's half, there is no regulation beyond DGB and DGB is proving to be ineffective in maintaining secrecy about it.

DBG decided to keep the existence of magic itself secret - and failed. But they may still manage to limit knowledge of how to use magic.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

The buildup of energy in Moperville is not only allowing people who've been marked to use magic with ease, but it's also drawing in aberrations and other mages, the real worry is if it becomes known how easy it is to get magic, the number of magic users would spike in a very short period of time and the chaos that ensues would likely be devastating because there is no proper regulation.

... and the (Pandora) Chaos (Raven) that ensues ... :)

What do you think "proper regulation" would be? The buildup of energy in Moperville is likely something impossible to regulate without full open war. It's important "natural" resource and everyone would like to control or at least use it - but the area is too small to keep the high number of aberrations and mages secret.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

That's probably why magic doesn't want to go mainstream, it had a balance, but now the balance is being thrown off by the clog..

I don't think whatever magic have instead of mind would be this sophisticated. Also, what balance? Balance is between multiple forces, what forces would that be? Aberrations and mages? Both will take advantage of the ambient magic.

The balance which IS endangered could be between the "halves" of the universe or between Moperville and rest of world, but THAT balance have nothing to do with magic going mainstream.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

DBG decided to keep the existence of magic itself secret - and failed. But they may still manage to limit knowledge of how to use magic.

DGB may not be able to even keep knowledge on how to use magic a secret either at the rate things are going.

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

What do you think "proper regulation" would be? The buildup of energy in Moperville is likely something impossible to regulate without full open war. It's important "natural" resource and everyone would like to control or at least use it - but the area is too small to keep the high number of aberrations and mages secret.

Not sure how, I would imagine that any regulation that is in place in the griffin's half of the world probably took years and possibly bloodshed to put in place, or maybe something catastrophic happened that made everyone go "...Yeah, we gotta do something so this doesn't happen again". I don't expect regulation in the main eight's half of the world to go through easily, especially if there's the same political uneasiness there is in our world. It would be pretty bad, but then Adrian would be able to fight for his country without restrictions.

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

I don't think whatever magic have instead of mind would be this sophisticated. Also, what balance? Balance is between multiple forces, what forces would that be? Aberrations and mages? Both will take advantage of the ambient magic.

The balance which IS endangered could be between the "halves" of the universe or between Moperville and rest of world, but THAT balance have nothing to do with magic going mainstream.

I mainly mean balance as in proper flow of magic between the halves keeping magic equal between both halves. I said more in the more recent thread.

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16 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

What do you think "proper regulation" would be? The buildup of energy in Moperville is likely something impossible to regulate without full open war. It's important "natural" resource and everyone would like to control or at least use it - but the area is too small to keep the high number of aberrations and mages secret.

Not sure how, I would imagine that any regulation that is in place in the griffin's half of the world probably took years and possibly bloodshed to put in place, or maybe something catastrophic happened that made everyone go "...Yeah, we gotta do something so this doesn't happen again". I don't expect regulation in the main eight's half of the world to go through easily, especially if there's the same political uneasiness there is in our world. It would be pretty bad, but then Adrian would be able to fight for his country without restrictions.

As I said, I imagine the regulations on griffin's half of world are ALSO based on secrecy. They just never tried to make the existence of magic itself secret.

I assumed Adrian is not able to fight for his country due to rules placed on elves by immortals.

18 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

The balance which IS endangered could be between the "halves" of the universe or between Moperville and rest of world, but THAT balance have nothing to do with magic going mainstream.

I mainly mean balance as in proper flow of magic between the halves keeping magic equal between both halves.

... I mentioned that one, but that one is not related to magic going mainstream.

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8 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

As I said, I imagine the regulations on griffin's half of world are ALSO based on secrecy. They just never tried to make the existence of magic itself secret.

I assumed Adrian is not able to fight for his country due to rules placed on elves by immortals.

We got this evidence to suggest otherwise. Adrian states that he isn't allowed to do much without causing problems. That may be more to with with DGB rules though rather than immortal rules, and would be the whole basis for Pandora wanting to make magic known to everyone, then Adrian wouldn't need to be restricted by DGB, it be like "well everyone knows about magic now so the government doesn't have any say in what you can or can't do anymore"

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8 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Adrian states that he isn't allowed to do much without causing problems. That may be more to with with DGB rules though rather than immortal rules, and would be the whole basis for Pandora wanting to make magic known to everyone, then Adrian wouldn't need to be restricted by DGB, it be like "well everyone knows about magic now so the government doesn't have any say in what you can or can't do anymore"

But the conversation with Pandora indicates that he's not allowed to fight for his country, no matter which country that is.  He's lived in several, apparently, and if it was only the laws and/or MIBs of the United States keeping him from fighting, he could just move somewhere else where it is allowed.  This ban on elves fighting openly is more than just DGB.

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21 minutes ago, Scotty said:

We got this evidence to suggest otherwise. Adrian states that he isn't allowed to do much without causing problems. That may be more to with with DGB rules though rather than immortal rules, and would be the whole basis for Pandora wanting to make magic known to everyone, then Adrian wouldn't need to be restricted by DGB, it be like "well everyone knows about magic now so the government doesn't have any say in what you can or can't do anymore"

We got this evidence to suggest openly say that it IS immortal rules. To summarize: Abraham, whose knowledge of modern world is so bad he doesn't know Lord of the Rings, IMMEDIATELY after learning that Raven is elf states that he can't fight him directly. Raven's reply then proves that Abraham doesn't really understand that rule either, BUT the way he continues makes obvious that yes, his limitations are caused by the fact he is elf.

Also, DGB is US-based organization. Raven was forbidden to serve in military of United States, England, France and Germany, based on what Pandora said. (Might not be complete list.) Given his age, that likely includes at least one side of World War II (possibly both. World Wars AND sides.) - and I'm sure Hitler WOULD utilize mages (hell, there are theories he DID in OUR world) and DGB, if it already existed, would need to counter with it's own mages, so no way would someone from government forbid him to fight.

(US was so desperate it used nuclear weapons when the war looked almost won. Anyone suggesting they SHOULDN'T use some weapon they had before day D would likely be shot as traitor.)

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The origins of DGB might go beyond the USA though, like how Freemasons are said to be connected to the Knights Templar, and probably have a worldwide network. The organization likely could have been around when there were more elves and when the need arose to keep magic secret from the masses, elves may have agreed to keep out of any conflicts  because they could potentially tip the scales for one side. If the organization that DGB is part of, was involved in WWII or any war for that matter, if likely would have been to make sure that magic wasn't used directly during the conflict, I imagine that if there were rumours of Hitler using mages, the organization would have covertly put a stop to it.

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10 hours ago, Scotty said:

The origins of DGB might go beyond the USA though, like how Freemasons are said to be connected to the Knights Templar, and probably have a worldwide network. The organization likely could have been around when there were more elves and when the need arose to keep magic secret from the masses, elves may have agreed to keep out of any conflicts  because they could potentially tip the scales for one side. If the organization that DGB is part of, was involved in WWII or any war for that matter, if likely would have been to make sure that magic wasn't used directly during the conflict, I imagine that if there were rumours of Hitler using mages, the organization would have covertly put a stop to it.

While we don't really know enough about EGS world to decide if it's more like this - world-wide organization which infiltrated every government secret services - instead of what I assume - lot of countries having their own organizations which have secret agreements between them mimicking the official agreements between countries - there is a big problem I mentioned which this theory doesn't solve:

There will be need for some unit of mages to do the "covertly stopping" of Hitler (or any other government) from using mages. This unit would be perceived as "good" and therefore exempt from any rule forbidding using magic and special abilities.

Therefore, Raven could easily fulfill his dream of protecting people by fighting by JOINING THIS UNIT. In fact, it would fulfill that dream EVEN BETTER than joining a military of specific country.

Actually, I see only three possible reasons why Raven is not part of DGB right now:

1) The rules are from immortals.

2) The rules are part of international agreements between DGB-like organizations - but such agreement will likely be temporary lifted in World Wars.

3) DGB is much more corrupt than it seems and Raven don't consider joining them safe, or maybe the top level command of DGB are racist speciest and don't want him - but, really, this has negative support in comics, in fact the comics goes out of the way to propagate the idea that DGB are almost unrealistically good. (If it wouldn't be obvious that Dan don't want to go this direction, I would expect this is preparation to big reveal of DGB as main antagonist.)

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DGB as a worldwide organization might still be possible, they may not control all the various governments but they may have some influence in some matters, the world wars probably still happened because some people thought they could be above the organization. The question of corruption is a pretty grey area, they've probably had it set up that secrecy of magic was a generalized rule, like "the general public must not know about this", recent events in Moperville however has caused them to backpedal and now it's "the general public must not learn how to use this", and even that way of thinking could very much backfire. I don't think they ever expected to deal with an ancient bored immortal and have no idea how to handle this, I'm not even sure how Edward would have dealt with the appearance of a fire golem and Cheerleadra even though he disagreed with Arthur Arthur's method. DGB's attempt to do things "by the book" likely has them caught in a corner and now their actions, or rather inaction may seem rather extreme.

Here's something to think about as well, though, what role exactly did Adrian play in Edward's and Noriko's lives? Besides teacher that is. He obviously affected their choice of careers and likely was the reason Edward joined the paranormal investigation division, maybe even the reason Edward has a lot of pull in the division.

It's quite possible Adrian had been involved in matters where Magic was being used, as you pointed out he stated that he could act if it involved magic. It'd be more a matter of him being restricted from just being a part of standard military forces where his abilities could make him a one man army, or even situations where there's a disaster and he's unable to act and save people because magic wasn't involved so he couldn't get involved. It just seems like "I can act if it involves magic" is base on a a rule made by humans aware of magic, whereas a rule coming from immortals would seem like "don't get involved at all".

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3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Actually, I see only three possible reasons why Raven is not part of DGB right now:

1) The rules are from immortals.

I doubt the immortals has a special law that stops elves from joining an organization such as DGB, but they do have the law that forbids immortals from interfering by using magic. It's not unlikely that there are some further details such as a limit on what information they are allowed to divulge about magic. The human ancestry is probably what gives elves slightly more leeway when it comes to using their abilities. On this page Adrian explains that:

Quote

I can act directly if the situation involves magic or is an immediate threat to myself or others.
 

Given limits like these Adrian would be of little use for the organization. His longevity might be seen as an asset as he could make sure that long term plans does not get distorted, but that's about all I can think of at the moment.

Apart from that I can see how working for DGB would put limits on his personal freedom, while doing nothing to lift the limitations he's under from immortal law. As far as I remember it has been said that even as a civilian DGB will help him maintain his identity to keep people from noticing that he doesn't age at the same rate as a normal human.
 

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