Woot! Spelljammer is back!

[mlooney 3,417]

Spelljammer!

My favorite D&D universe!

[Darth Fluffy 302]

On 4/21/2022 at 0:53 PM, mlooney said:

Spelljammer!

My favorite D&D universe!

That is indeed interesting. That it took so long suggests rights issues, that it's happening indicates that they've been resolved. Good news indeed!

[mlooney 3,417]

There wasn't any rights issues, WotC bought all of TSR's IP and there wasn't an issue with an original novel writer like there was with DragonLance.  I suspect that part of the reason that WotC didn't bring Spelljammer back earlier is that it's, at its core, a silly universe, and they were trying to avoid "silly".

[Darth Fluffy 302]

Greyhawk was dropped because of ownership issues. That kind of soured me on their in-house certified gaming, RPGA, Greyhawk was well organized when they dropped it. I think they lost a lot of players; near as I can tell, most of our crew quit. Since RPGA games was where we met, I can't say for sure, but I haven't seen them hanging around the game stores since.

Spelljammer is well thought out for fantasy space.

 

 

[mlooney 3,417]

Given that there is no question that Greyhawk was part of the TSR IP that WotC bought I'm pretty sure that it wasn't ownership issues. I'm not so sure that Greyhawk was dropped so much as not put in the spot light as much.  For example it was the "generic" baseline world for 3.x (mainly having to do with what gods were listed).  It's still listed as a possible world in 5.
 

[Darth Fluffy 302]

8 hours ago, mlooney said:

Given that there is no question that Greyhawk was part of the TSR IP that WotC bought I'm pretty sure that it wasn't ownership issues. I'm not so sure that Greyhawk was dropped so much as not put in the spot light as much.  For example it was the "generic" baseline world for 3.x (mainly having to do with what gods were listed).  It's still listed as a possible world in 5.
 

here is the whole story. Living Greyhawk. They did indeed drop it like a hot potato, right in the apex of 3.5; they could have mitigated damage by offering a conversion to another setting, but their stance was 'start over' - and the setting had a massive community of detail.

The article avoids discussion of why it was dropped, and has 'controversial subject matter' markers. Note that Gary Gygax is cited as the author. Seems to put it well within TSR's ownership, doesn't it? So WotC should own it now? Speculation, the Gygax estate and legacy is know to have issues, so I'm assuming there is a legal battle over rights and ownership of Gary's material. Apparently it is still ongoing.

Oh, yes, per Google, 14 years latter, it's still a mess. Some stuff to read. This one has detail about his widow.

[mlooney 3,417]

Let's not even get into the stuff the Ernie Gygax (jr.) got into with "TSR LLC" (aka nue TSR,  aka TSR3).  That's been a [redacted]storm from day one.  

[Darth Fluffy 302]

47 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Let's not even get into the stuff the Ernie Gygax (jr.) got into with "TSR LLC" (aka nue TSR,  aka TSR3).  That's been a [redacted]storm from day one.  

As a far outside observer, there does not seem to be a clear villain, just a lot of intramural mistrust and bickering. The one thing that's clearly taken a hit is the one thing everyone alleges to support, Gary Gygax's memory.

[mlooney 3,417]

Nue TSR flat out stole both the TSR  "game wizards" logo and the Star Frontiers IP, despite that fact that WotC is still selling them, meaning that the trademark is still in use.  Having a trademark in use is important in trademark law.  This makes, from the point of view of some one that cares about IP law, Nue TSR the bad guy. 

Sorry for ranting, but this is important to me, as some one that (in theory) produces material that is released under several trademark license. 

[Darth Fluffy 302]

13 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Nue TSR flat out stole both the TSR  "game wizards" logo and the Star Frontiers IP, despite that fact that WotC is still selling them, meaning that the trademark is still in use.  Having a trademark in use is important in trademark law.  This makes, from the point of view of some one that cares about IP law, Nue TSR the bad guy. 

Sorry for ranting, but this is important to me, as some one that (in theory) produces material that is released under several trademark license. 

You know more about it than I do. Several factoids in those articles made me wonder, "WTF?", such as what you cite; reusing the TSR logo seemed contentious. I did not know about Star Frontiers being in any sense active for the last, what thirty some years; WotC is doing something with it? It shouldn't matter, even if they are just sitting on it.

My take on it is that Gary did the right thing and provided for his widow first; she had a personal investment of much of her life in TSR, so has a stake in it anyway. The kids, being kids, are impatient to inherit a portion, and especially some of them are gamers and want to keep producing product under Dad's umbrella. Gail is perhaps fearful of losing control entirely, and so is keeping tight reins. Years pass and patience wears thin. Gamers, who are well known for their immense maturity in social settings, start reacting; family starts publishing possibly intrusive material, third parties with no stake in the matter begin harassing Gail. She digs her heels in. A bad time is had by all.

So, knowing what you do, is it surprising that WotC curtailed Greyhawk, a setting of Gary's? Having clear title to anything remotely associated to Gary's estate is probably going to involve a couple of trips to court, just to show off your pre-death agreement.

 

[mlooney 3,417]

37 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

You know more about it than I do. Several factoids in those articles made me wonder, "WTF?", such as what you cite; reusing the TSR logo seemed contentious. I did not know about Star Frontiers being in any sense active for the last, what thirty some years; WotC is doing something with it? It shouldn't matter, even if they are just sitting on it.

 

You can buy, today, a Star Frontiers PDF or book.  Granted it's web only and you can't buy it in a games store, but it's still for sale. This makes Nue TSR (TSR LLC) claim that it's abandoned false on the face of it.  Also, note the TSR marking on the bottom of the product.  The "angular" TSR logo is one that TSR LLC is claiming as being abandon.    That's just the legal issues, lets not even get into their production issues.  Star Frontiers "New Genesis" seems to be vaporware right now, despite them claiming it's at the printers.  The vaporware statement is based on information about 2 weeks old, they may have it in stock now. <google>  Nope still out of stock.  Just for what it's worth SFNG seems to be based on D&D 3.5 based on the "preview" character sheet that TSR LLC released.  This has fans of the old Star Frontiers a bit upset, as the old version wasn't class based as far as I know.

TSR LLC's web page for their version of the game.
https://tsrmuseum.com/online-store/ols/products/star-frontiers-new-genesis-role-playing-game-rebooted

WotC/TSR Inc. Star Frontiers for sale, and it's available on demand.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/226710/Star-Frontiers-Alpha-Dawn

For way more than you ever wanted to know about the sins of omission and commission of TSR LLC, see here.
 

Play List of Star Frontier's fan about TSR LLC

Sorry for ranting about this but it's important to me

[Darth Fluffy 302]

Nah, go ahead and rant. It's cathartic.

Star Frontiers is not heinous (I might still own a copy), but the various space settings from various publishers had a tough climb; Traveller was so good. (Well, the mechanics, maybe not, but that's been revamped several time since). ((Props for being able to die while you are rolling up your character. ))

In fact, I'd name Spelljammer as one of just two that really stand out from the herd. The setting is unique, blending hardcore fantasy with Star Trek-ish space opera.

The other is AD2300, which tries a little harder that the herd to be hard core science fiction.

 

[mlooney 3,417]

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Traveller was so good.

Traveller, at least Classic (1977/81) Traveller is my favorite old school RPG.  The current Open Game version is Cepheus Engine, which is based on Mongoose Traveller 1st Ed, which had a SRD released.  CE comes close enough to Classic Traveller that you can use the old adventures unmodified.