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mlooney

Comic for Monday, May 16, 2022

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Here is.

So, we get an explanation of where Uryuoms are from and it's not from outer space.  For those people that said Virginia was a Uryuom and I called it a cracked theory, I apologize.

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4 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

It appears Virginia is the worst type of being.

A neat-freak who compulsively picks up junk others have dropped

I'm not sure that is the worst type of being, but damn sure irritating in real life.

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Dwight’s reaction to Virginia handling a high-tech device suggests one of two policies is in effect on the Griffins’ side of the world.

First, there may be a general anti-tech sentiment among mages in order to sustain the magocracy. Since their society is overtly ruled under the principle of “the stronger your magic, the greater your rank”, Muggles are forbidden to use technology that can undermine magical dominance—most prominently, firearms, steam or combustion-based engines, or electricity. If this is so, then one would have expected that the Griffin Knights would have at least been briefed on the fact that Muggle society on the other side is entirely tech-dependent to the point that 80% would starve if the tech were removed, and also possessed city-obliterating weapons which they could deploy if the griffins’ side were stupid enough to engage in outright war.

The second possibility is if Dwight were upset specifically at Virginia handling the tech. On the EGS side of the world, Uryuoms were long forbidden access to Magic (due to a nearly-forgotten takeover attempt as shown by the memories of the golem). It may be that Uryuoms on the griffins’ side are forbidden high technology for similar reasons. Virginia not only being a servant, but Dwight’s earlier voicing of mistrust of her, may be due to Uryuoms being a low-status racial group on that side of the world. This would also explain Dwight’s apparent prejudice toward Grace.

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Dwight was apparently dropped on his head too many times as a child. He's already been told she figured out what was going on, and that she was picking up the stuff she found. He needed to stay out of the way at the portal. If he had several grams of sense, he'd know Liam, Tara, and Andrea can handle it, are more familiar with the situation, and already know the humans. Barney Fife, indeed.

I think Virginia is going to stay on this side with Grace, Elliot, and company. Liam is going to see it as beneficial for her.

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7 hours ago, ijuin said:

Griffin Knights

Note sure that Dwight is a knight.  More like a "men at arms", given his guard status.

 

7 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Dwight was apparently dropped on his head too many times as a child. He's already been told she figured out what was going on, and that she was picking up the stuff she found. He needed to stay out of the way at the portal. If he had several grams of sense, he'd know Liam, Tara, and Andrea can handle it, are more familiar with the situation, and already know the humans. Barney Fife, indeed.

Dwight does seem to have some issues.  And doesn't seem to be very bright.

7 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I think Virginia is going to stay on this side with Grace, Elliot, and company. Liam is going to see it as beneficial for her.

Not sure about that.  Of course, if she does move in to this side of the world, she will stay a Edward's house, because Lavender is going to be moving in soon.  Or at Susan's because her house has all the extra rooms.  <that last bit is a cracked theory>

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4 hours ago, mlooney said:

Note sure that Dwight is a knight.  More like a "men at arms", given his guard status.

Dwight does seem to have some issues.  And doesn't seem to be very bright.

Guards do seem to be selected for their loyalty rather than their cleverness.

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13 minutes ago, ijuin said:

Guards do seem to be selected for their loyalty rather than their cleverness.

Lower ranked military in all but the most modern armies tend to be selected that way.

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Non-conscripted armies, at least. Under conscription, soldiers are whoever lack the means to get themselves excused from service. “Conscripted soldier” is the only occupation in which getting fired is a reward rather than a punishment.

That said, the reason that I described the Griffin Warriors as being all knights is because of their society’s apparent custom of regarding powerful mage-warriors as being nobility—any government-employed warrior with sufficient magical power and loyalty to their King/Queen probably gets Knighted. It may even be that anybody who has sufficiently powerful magic is treated as minor non-hereditary nobility (like modern British knighthoods) just because of the “Mages are above Muggles” sentiment.

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1 hour ago, ijuin said:

Non-conscripted armies, at least.

Most "modern" armies tend to be either all volunteer or mainly volunteer.  Those that aren't tend to be countries where everybody gets drafted, it's part of growing up.  That hasn't been the case in most of the FSU since the fall of the USSR.  Conscription is rather hit or miss in those countries. 

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I just noticed, in panel 2, Grace says, "She's an uryuom", and in panel 3, Elliot says, "and ... is that my stuff?" - How is he continuing Grace's train of thought? Telepathy? Read her thought cloud in the comic? It does not fit with the last train of thought Elliot had, two comics prior, where he's shocked that Liam was holding back.

Most plausible explanation, it's implied Elliot had the same thought, even though it's not shown.

Also, it's pretty obvious that it's his stuff, he's been told she picked stuff up, and that's the stuff that would have been there to pick up; the coat would be recognizable, and the presence of a cell phone should cap it. Maybe Dwight isn't the only one dropped on his head too often.

I can see it now, Dan does a flash back where there is a series of incidents involving Elliot being dropped.

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21 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

Since my theory that the Griffin world is the Uryom home world is looking even more plausable, I suspect Dwight's hatred of technology (or of Virginia having it) is tied with the laws (and the religion inspiring those laws) that would make it illegal to buy or sell the TFG on the Uryuom home world.

I definitely agree that the Griffin world is the Uryuom home world; it's pretty much been stated by 'they're not really aliens' and 'we live in two sides of the same world'.

The comic you quote seems to be before Dan decided that they weren't really aliens. And, yes, it seems to fit in, if you ignore that timeline quirk.

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Assuming that the other side of the coin's surface area is the same as our side of the coin, there is no reason to assume that they only have one nation and that their laws and tech level are the same from nation to nation.  For that matter there is no reason to assume that one species is in charge from nation to nation.  It's possible that Will and Gill are from a nation ruled by Uryuoms and that higher tech level than some other nations, for example one ruled by mages or griffins.

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On 5/19/2022 at 4:23 AM, mlooney said:

Assuming that the other side of the coin's surface area is the same as our side of the coin, there is no reason to assume that they only have one nation and that their laws and tech level are the same from nation to nation.  For that matter there is no reason to assume that one species is in charge from nation to nation.  It's possible that Will and Gill are from a nation ruled by Uryuoms and that higher tech level than some other nations, for example one ruled by mages or griffins.

Reason to assume one nation: This is a bit lame, but there is a reason of sorts, it is a bit of a fiction trope to assume a given planet or plain has a single character; it is exceptional when an author does otherwise. This is in spite of our one real world example being anything but.

Reason to assume tech levels are the same: A bit stronger, secrets are difficult to keep, knowledge flows, if not like water then at least like molasses or sludge. It may not be exactly even, but neither will true isolation be achieved. Even with religion backing the isolation, you will have non-believers, or travelers, traders, diplomats, conquerors, hirelings; there will be exposure to prohibited tech.

Will and Gill: In the comic ChronosCat linked, they are dismissing giving the TF device to Tedd on the grounds that they could not otherwise sell it, it is now illegal on their 'home world'  (again, this appears to be before Dan decided that they were not aliens). The linked comic highlights that they, too, are from a place that has prohibitions against at least some tech. It may be as you conjecture, however, we have no reason to assume that is the case.

We know from Barney Fife's reaction that tech is prohibited to Virginia. We don't know if it is specifically because she is a uryoum, or if it applies to all of their world's inhabitants. We don't know how long it has been a law. It might fit within the frame of the linked comic, a recent change. Andrea and Tara have been exposed to 'tech' on this side and did not take offense; Tara even offered useful observations how Elliot might interact with his in his altered form.

We also don't know that Barney Fife's conclusion that Virginia is prohibited from 'having tech' even applied to her in the main EGS world. It is pretty clear that Barney is exceeding his authority. Hell, Virginia is beginning to ask a question about the device she is carrying when he jumps all over her. An apparently procedural question, along the lines of, "What do I do with this?", which is in the spirit of the prohibition, while still providing for "I found your stuff."

So yeah, everything you are saying is possible, but we have no reason to assume so. It is also possible that dogs are blue and have five legs on their world; we have no reason to assume that is true either.

 

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27 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Worlds being one biome and having only one nation state drive me around the bend.

You must really love cookie cutter races in D&D.

I think some of the best remembered settings, like Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar, are well received specifically because they avoid this myopic view.

The ones that drive me crazy (I realize it's a short journey, but bear with me) are when the author embraces the monolithic view, then 'cleverly' creates the exception, "Oh, my God, I'm the only one that ever thought of this!" Like the Drow, Ditz. (Did I misspell that? Nope, got it right.)

This is at least part of the reason I'm not a fan of the D&D alignment system. I'll give it a couple of points for not being a flat line, that's about it. Races get a label slapped on, the kind you can barely scrape off, and then that's all they are. Say what you will about WarHamster, their Orc (or Orks) and Lizardmen have some depth and discernable motivation.

Actual real cats, dogs, and chimpanzees have personalities, it's not too much to expect in a fictional character.

 

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33 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

You must really love cookie cutter races in D&D.

I run hot and cold on them.  While they should have some variance, there is a lot to be said for "tradition".

 

35 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Say what you will about WarHamster, their Orc (or Orks) and Lizardmen have some depth and discernable motivation.

WarHammer, maybe, Warhammer 40K they are all about "Waaagh" and charge!  More Dakka!  

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2 hours ago, mlooney said:

WarHammer, maybe, Warhammer 40K they are all about "Waaagh" and charge!  More Dakka!

Don't forget, "Red goes fasta".

 

3 hours ago, mlooney said:

I run hot and cold on them.  While they should have some variance, there is a lot to be said for "tradition".

a.k.a.'stereotypes', well, you wouldn't want them flavorless, but lets shoot for something less than a concrete strait jacket.

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3 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

This is at least part of the reason I'm not a fan of the D&D alignment system. I'll give it a couple of points for not being a flat line, that's about it. Races get a label slapped on, the kind you can barely scrape off, and then that's all they are.

I played with that on occasion. Village has a major evil at its heart. The party gets get close, learns that it's an orc village... with an unusual (for an orc village) amount of cropland and pasture around it. And the orcs don't test as evil. They later learn that the exact location of that major evil is a jail cell - occupied by a human or elf. (And the neutral-good orc shaman is powerful enough to keep that evil being in the cell.)

One of the best things 4E did was to effectively make alignment optional. Too bad it also oversimplified alignment. I'd complained in 3.5E that the alignment grid, which was supposed to be a square, was actually a diamond - Lawful Good was so much better than Lawful Neutral or Neutral Good, it clearly belonged alone at the top. But that didn't make it necessary or desirable to remove some alignments from the grid.

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8 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Reason to assume one nation: This is a bit lame, but there is a reason of sorts, it is a bit of a fiction trope to assume a given planet or plain has a single character; it is exceptional when an author does otherwise. This is in spite of our one real world example being anything but.

Reason to assume tech levels are the same: A bit stronger, secrets are difficult to keep, knowledge flows, if not like water then at least like molasses or sludge. It may not be exactly even, but neither will true isolation be achieved. Even with religion backing the isolation, you will have non-believers, or travelers, traders, diplomats, conquerors, hirelings; there will be exposure to prohibited tech.

Will and Gill: In the comic ChronosCat linked, they are dismissing giving the TF device to Tedd on the grounds that they could not otherwise sell it, it is now illegal on their 'home world'  (again, this appears to be before Dan decided that they were not aliens). The linked comic highlights that they, too, are from a place that has prohibitions against at least some tech. It may be as you conjecture, however, we have no reason to assume that is the case.

We know from Barney Fife's reaction that tech is prohibited to Virginia. We don't know if it is specifically because she is a uryoum, or if it applies to all of their world's inhabitants. We don't know how long it has been a law. It might fit within the frame of the linked comic, a recent change. Andrea and Tara have been exposed to 'tech' on this side and did not take offense; Tara even offered useful observations how Elliot might interact with his in his altered form.

We also don't know that Barney Fife's conclusion that Virginia is prohibited from 'having tech' even applied to her in the main EGS world. It is pretty clear that Barney is exceeding his authority. Hell, Virginia is beginning to ask a question about the device she is carrying when he jumps all over her. An apparently procedural question, along the lines of, "What do I do with this?", which is in the spirit of the prohibition, while still providing for "I found your stuff."

Reason for multiple nations on the other side: Highest-level mages in general are apparently considered to be Royalty. If there were only one Empire, then there would be only one Royal clan, and anybody not related to them by blood or marriage could not be called Royalty. Instead, I envision hundreds of kingdoms, each with their own Royal clans. Some would band together to create group alliances, while others would war upon one another, and new Royal-level mages may from time to time attempt to carve out their own kingdoms. Basically, it would be like pre-Westphalia Europe.

As for tech levels, the Griffins' society seems to be technophobic among the non-scientist Mages, if Dwight's reaction is in any way mainstream, but that does not preclude other nations on their side from having higher tech. Indeed, some of the nations likely have higher tech than our own, if this is the Uryuom's place of origin. William described the TF Gun as being inherited from their parents, which probably makes it older than desktop computers are in our world (William claimed that he could run for President of the United States in a 2003 strip, which means he would have to have been born before 1968), and the Uryuoms on the EGS side in the 20th century had "flying saucer" spacecraft, so that puts them at least several decades ahead of our current level in the related fields.

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1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

I played with that on occasion. Village has a major evil at its heart. The party gets get close, learns that it's an orc village... with an unusual (for an orc village) amount of cropland and pasture around it. And the orcs don't test as evil. They later learn that the exact location of that major evil is a jail cell - occupied by a human or elf. (And the neutral-good orc shaman is powerful enough to keep that evil being in the cell.)

One of the best things 4E did was to effectively make alignment optional. Too bad it also oversimplified alignment. I'd complained in 3.5E that the alignment grid, which was supposed to be a square, was actually a diamond - Lawful Good was so much better than Lawful Neutral or Neutral Good, it clearly belonged alone at the top. But that didn't make it necessary or desirable to remove some alignments from the grid.

Meh, it's  a framework, I suppose it is better than nothing. Too many folks seem to take it way too much to heart, though. Real personality does not map out so neatly, way too complex, that's why there's so many different classification systems. I've long argued, too, that no one sees themselves as 'evil'. They are always justified in their own mind. 

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1 hour ago, ijuin said:

Reason for multiple nations on the other side: Highest-level mages in general are apparently considered to be Royalty. If there were only one Empire, then there would be only one Royal clan, and anybody not related to them by blood or marriage could not be called Royalty. Instead, I envision hundreds of kingdoms, each with their own Royal clans. Some would band together to create group alliances, while others would war upon one another, and new Royal-level mages may from time to time attempt to carve out their own kingdoms. Basically, it would be like pre-Westphalia Europe.

As for tech levels, the Griffins' society seems to be technophobic among the non-scientist Mages, if Dwight's reaction is in any way mainstream, but that does not preclude other nations on their side from having higher tech. Indeed, some of the nations likely have higher tech than our own, if this is the Uryuom's place of origin. William described the TF Gun as being inherited from their parents, which probably makes it older than desktop computers are in our world (William claimed that he could run for President of the United States in a 2003 strip, which means he would have to have been born before 1968), and the Uryuoms on the EGS side in the 20th century had "flying saucer" spacecraft, so that puts them at least several decades ahead of our current level in the related fields.

Good God, they've got Make Griffin World Great Again? That would 'splain Dwight.

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