Comic for Wednesday, September 7, 2022

[Darth Fluffy 302]

Comic for Wednesday, September 7, 2022

Welp, this is an odd turn ... so many questions how this works on an physically biological level.

It works OK on Star Trek, where everyone is rubber mask aliens. Uyruoms breed differently, unless Lavender installed the necessary plumbing through shapeshifting. Or do they keep a Uryuom egg in the corner of the bedroom?

On a scale from one to ten, we will now be using the complex plane of hotness. "My girlfriend is a 9+3i" (9+3j for you EEs).

 

[mlooney 3,417]

Yeah, I was thinking about the biology of this as well.  I can only assume that she has a human form that is fully equipped. 

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

If only Edward knew somene who could make Uryuoms appear fully human. 

The technical & biological details can be gleaned from notes the agency took from the Nest

[ijuin 572]

The fact that Uryuom/human Seyunolu exist at all is proof that interbreeding is possible, though it apparently requires at least two Uryuom participants in the mix unless you have one of the rare ones like Guyer (Grace’s Uryuom parent) who can produce an unfertilized egg solo.

But if you’re just talking about sexual interaction fir funsies, then yes an Uryuom can morph the requisite anatomy with the help of Cosmetic Morphing Devices such as the one that the TF Gun is derived from.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

Is it odd that if Edward & Violet want to have children, they will probably need to ask for some kind of help from Tedd & Grace?

Likely long before those transforming teens should seriously consider children of their own

[Darth Fluffy 302]

49 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Is it odd that if Edward & Violet want to have children, they will probably need to ask for some kind of help from Tedd & Grace?

Likely long before those transforming teens should seriously consider children of their own

 

 

 

Rate this book

1 of 5 stars2 of 5 stars3 of 5 stars4 of 5 stars5 of 5 stars

Babies and Other Hazards of Sex: How to Make a Tiny Person in Only 9 Months, with Tools You Probably Have Around the Home

[Amiable Dorsai 70]

Good, someone who can bring Grace up to speed on the birds and the bees and the meteors.

 

[Amiable Dorsai 70]

Or maybe we'll find out that some uryuom do indeed think there's something wrong with that.

[ChronosCat 155]

12 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Welp, this is an odd turn ... so many questions how this works on an physically biological level.

It works OK on Star Trek, where everyone is rubber mask aliens. Uyruoms breed differently, unless Lavender installed the necessary plumbing through shapeshifting. Or do they keep a Uryuom egg in the corner of the bedroom?

While it seems a safe assumption that Edward and Lavender will be having some sexy fun in the bedroom (and may well have already done so), I feel the need to point out that dating and marriage do not technically require the couple to have sex (and certainly do not require the sort of intercourse which can lead to children).

Having children is also optional, and while a married hetrosexual couple not having children is relatively uncommon, there are many who don't (in fact I have an aunt and uncle who have been married for a couple decades and never had kids, despite being young enough for it when they got married). If it turns out Edward and Lavender do want children, however, I would assume they would use an Uryuom egg, as they're made for that sort of thing (and from what I've heard, being pregnant can be rather inconvenient).

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

3 hours ago, Amiable Dorsai said:

Good, someone who can bring Grace up to speed on the birds and the bees and the meteors.

My parents never talked to me about the meteors.  I had to sort through a lot of bad information on the street and finally rely on silver age comics to tell me what I needed to know

[Darth Fluffy 302]

1 hour ago, ChronosCat said:

While it seems a safe assumption that Edward and Lavender will be having some sexy fun in the bedroom (and may well have already done so), I feel the need to point out that dating and marriage do not technically require the couple to have sex (and certainly do not require the sort of intercourse which can lead to children).

Not at all common, but it is also possible to have a marriage annulled for failure to consummate in some venues, including Illinois in our world, counterpart for where Moperville exists. Proving this would be difficult, if contested.

 

1 hour ago, ChronosCat said:

Having children is also optional, ...

I know what you mean, but that is a rather over-optimistic statement. First, in the negative sense, many couples can't have kids. Then, more to the sense you mean, many couples won't exercise effective prevention for a variety of reasons; reaction to birth control medication, religious reasons, stigma, fear, cost, ignorance, availability ... You should be aware that several strongly anti-abortion states are also trying to outlaw various means of birth control.

You know what they call people who use the rhythm method of birth control, right? - Parents.

 

 

1 hour ago, ChronosCat said:

... while a married hetrosexual couple not having children is relatively uncommon, there are many who don't (in fact I have an aunt and uncle who have been married for a couple decades and never had kids, despite being young enough for it when they got married).

It is not all that uncommon within the folks I know and have known over the years. On the other hand, neither are large families.

One new (to me) trend I'm seeing occasionally is young ladies choosing to remain single and have a child.

 

1 hour ago, ChronosCat said:

If it turns out Edward and Lavender do want children, however, I would assume they would use an Uryuom egg, as they're made for that sort of thing (and from what I've heard, being pregnant can be rather inconvenient).

I was thinking more of the recreational options. In terms of making babies, the Uryoum egg seems to be the go to inter-species procreation MacGuffin for EGS.

Inter-species pregnancy defeats the purpose of speciation. The evolutionary flow tends toward separation and inter-infertility. That's if you start from the same place. If you don't, you don't merge, not sexually. You might merge in some invasive sense, that seems to have happened, mitochondria in particular, but sex with each other is not involved.

Coming from different worlds entirely, there should be no hope of inter-fertility. You might not even have the same basis for genetics; might have different base pairs, or a variant chemical basis; even here there is some life that is RNA based rather than DNA. Then, chirality of the life chemistry might be reversed.

The Star Trek half-breeds, like Spock, are pure fantasy, or like said character, are retconned in an early novel to be as much a product of laboratory manipulation as of biological breeding.

Fitting tab A into slot B should also prove challenging, although dolphins seem to have developed their multi-tool technology. Then, having compatible swimmers and eggs should be yet another level, but that is tossed aside by the ambiguity of what a Uryuom egg actually is. Does it just refer to a (macro-sized) structure; surely there is some nascent embryotic cell awaiting genetic information, and the outer shell is more of a surrogate womb than a biologic egg.

There are many more problems than these; creatures such as Grace and her siblings is straining the bounds of suspension of disbelief. They do better as a fantasy, with less scrutiny.

Back to Lavender, it matters how deep her shape shifting goes. Can she form an actual womb that a fetus can attach to? Seems like shapeshifting would make pregnancy less inconvenient, and the birth majorly so.

Also note that Lavender does not appear to be a standard Uryuom; she's larger than all the others we've seen. might be significant? Maybe not, Virginia seemed pretty big as well, and the ones in the Library were varying sizes.

 

[Darth Fluffy 302]

2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

My parents never talked to me about the meteors.

AKA, the big flying reset button from space. You and I would not be here without it.

[ChronosCat 155]

On 9/8/2022 at 1:34 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

Not at all common, but it is also possible to have a marriage annulled for failure to consummate in some venues, including Illinois in our world, counterpart for where Moperville exists. Proving this would be difficult, if contested.

I thought of this after posting; I guess my "technically" depends on where you live (though on the other hand "failure to consummate" is only relevant if someone wants the marriage ended).

On 9/8/2022 at 1:34 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

I know what you mean, but that is a rather over-optimistic statement. First, in the negative sense, many couples can't have kids. Then, more to the sense you mean, many couples won't exercise effective prevention for a variety of reasons; reaction to birth control medication, religious reasons, stigma, fear, cost, ignorance, availability ... You should be aware that several strongly anti-abortion states are also trying to outlaw various means of birth control.

You know what they call people who use the rhythm method of birth control, right? - Parents.

Hmm. Perhaps "optional" wasn't precise enough a term. I probably should have said something like "not obligatory".

That said, unless Lavender goes full human clone-form or is otherwise very careless about what form she takes, she and Edward aren't in danger of having children accidentally. (In fact, even if a non-human in a human clone-form would be fertile, based on what was said during the party about standard TF forms, that fertility would probably take days or weeks (I forget exactly how long it was) to kick in.)

On 9/8/2022 at 1:34 AM, Darth Fluffy said:

I was thinking more of the recreational options. In terms of making babies, the Uryoum egg seems to be the go to inter-species procreation MacGuffin for EGS.

[snip]

There are many more problems than these; creatures such as Grace and her siblings is straining the bounds of suspension of disbelief. They do better as a fantasy, with less scrutiny.

Back to Lavender, it matters how deep her shape shifting goes. Can she form an actual womb that a fetus can attach to? Seems like shapeshifting would make pregnancy less inconvenient, and the birth majorly so.

If the goal is recreation, I think Lavender would want to avoid creating a womb, or any other feminine body parts not required for she and Edward to enjoy the experience.

As for shapeshifting helping with pregnancy, it might be able to help with some things, but it wouldn't change the fact that one was carrying around precious and sensitive "cargo" inside oneself. In fact, being pregnant would probably greatly limit the shapeshifting one could safely do (which would be its own sort of inconvenience); if nothing else one wouldn't be able to safely shift anything relating to the womb. (I remember that the TFG's safeties prevent or at least severely limit how it can be used on those who are pregnant.)

As for the ability of Uryuom eggs to create hybrids of species very distantly related to one another, or possibly from separate planets (though that last bit is still up in the air after the Will of Magic's declaration), it's not something I would accept in a hard sci-fi story, and I still puzzle over why Uryuoms would have that ability (never mind how). Still, EGS is a fantasy story (that just so happens to borrow a few sci-fi tropes) and also theoretically a comedy; sometimes you just have to accept that parts of the story & worldbuilding are silly and don't really make sense, and move on.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

10 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

That said, unless Lavender goes full human clone-form or is otherwise very careless about what form she takes, she and Edward aren't in danger of having children accidentally. (In fact, even if a non-human in a human clone-form would be fertile, based on what was said during the party about standard TF forms, that fertility would probably take days or weeks (I forget exactly how long it was) to kick in.)

Huh, that is a point, if the TF gun is modeled after how Uryuoms shapeshift, you'd expect them to be subject to the same rules.

 

10 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

As for the ability of Uryuom eggs to create hybrids of species very distantly related to one another, or possibly from separate planets (though that last bit is still up in the air after the Will of Magic's declaration), it's not something I would accept in a hard sci-fi story, and I still puzzle over why Uryuoms would have that ability (never mind how). Still, EGS is a fantasy story (that just so happens to borrow a few sci-fi tropes) and also theoretically a comedy; sometimes you just have to accept that parts of the story & worldbuilding are silly and don't really make sense, and move on.

Very much agree, Grace is a cool character who works in this setting, and you are better off not thinking too much about where she comes from.

EGS is fantasy, not hard sci fi, but Dan goes some distance trying to explain it. That might be counterproductive. 

[ChronosCat 155]

8 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

EGS is fantasy, not hard sci fi, but Dan goes some distance trying to explain it. That might be counterproductive. 

On the one hand, some explanations aren't necessary and may make things less fun (most people hate midichlorians, for example). Furthermore, just explaining a lot about the setting can make people expect explanations for everything, and in a story with huge deviations from reality that just isn't possible. Also of course nerds like us will often then try to puzzle out those unexplained things, which (as in this case) may reveal things that don't make sense that maybe weren't so obvious at first glance.

On the other hand, a well fleshed out world is easier to accept as "real", and learning about a detailed fictional world can be fun. It's also important that the author at least has a good idea in their own heads of how things work, so things don't get too inconsistent (it's rarely a good thing when an audience is wondering when a character got a certain ability and why they didn't use it when it would have been useful before - or worse yet, why they don't use it again).

To complicate matters, how much needs to be explained varies depending on the story (and in particular, on how seriously one is supposed to take the story).

I think Dan has a good feel for how much explanation to give these days* (and has for quite a while)**. The big problem is that the story has become more serious over the years (or at least, did so over the first few years), and Dan didn't really think the world of EGS through very well at the beginning, thus requiring lots of retcons to make the world make enough sense to suit the current tone - and some of those lingering bits of nonsense are too deeply entrenched in the worldbuilding to be easily retconned.

* Although he does occasionally go overboard when trying to make sure the audience understands what he wants them to understand.

** Other than his bad habit of providing details of the magic system in the main story where it messed with the pacing, instead of in supplementary material where such optional info belongs.

 

tl;dr: Explaining fantasy is not always a bad thing if done in moderation. Dan's problem is not that he explains too much, but that certain bits of worldbuilding he came up with twenty years ago don't hold up to scrutiny.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

Yes, I think he's getting better at it, some of the regrettable directions were early on. "alien technology" <hand wave> would have made much more sense than "Uryuom Eggs". I'd be tempted to retcon that they are tech.

When he focuses on the people and their personal growth, he's much more consistent. I think that's his big draw; it is for me.

 

[mlooney 3,417]

8 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

When he focuses on the people and their personal growth, he's much more consistent.

Yeah, his growth of most of the main 8 and Diane has been quite a lot.  No so much with Ashley, however she was introduced fairly late and she really hasn't had time to grow out of "cute girl that really likes magic".  I mean she has had some based on the fact that she can now do magic and having fantasies about doing it to people that annoy her being possibly bad.