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The Old Hack

Discussion of Military, real or fictional

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What you said is in line with my understanding as well.

"DU rounds are the best current solid shot rounds." - I'm not sure you couldn't design a somewhat better one, albeit much more expensive and/or hazardous to handle. DU has the advantages of being an all too plentiful waste material with somewhat benign handling characteristics (that we are currently aware of). There's a tip of the 'we may regret this later' iceberg showing.

"The A-10 is worthless against the frontal armor of most tanks." - This suggests an interesting scenario. The A-10 cooks off rounds very fast. if it is aiming at a tank, head to head, it seems that there is fair statistical odds that a round or more go into the tank barrel before the tank gets off a shot. (The pilot would need to have the presence of mind to keep firing, and there may be a time limit to how long a burst is feasible before the gun is adversely affected.) What happens then? It can't be good good for the tank. A tank round, OTOH, should total the A-10 if it hits squarely. If it hits a wing, the  A-10 should be able to keep firing, although it might slew around. Clearly, the tank has better odds than if the A-10 were airborne.

Tanks are also weaker underneath, but that is a difficult shot for the A-10.

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23 hours ago, mlooney said:

DU rounds are the best current solid shot rounds.  The best US version can penetrate about 1400mm RHAe.  The best armored Russian tanks have about 1200 RHAe armor, so angle of shot matters a lot.  Most of them don't have any where near that armor.

The A-10 is worthless against the frontal armor of most tanks.  On the other hand, it doesn't attack the frontal armor of a tank, just the much thinner top armor.

Darth Putin:

Have given my tank crews armor that can't stop western missiles. Out of fairness, am giving my soldiers body armor that can't stop western bullets.

I remain a master strategist.

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1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

"DU rounds are the best current solid shot rounds." - I'm not sure you couldn't design a somewhat better one, albeit much more expensive and/or hazardous to handle.

Osmium rounds. Price negotiations for osmium (it isn't a regularly-traded commodity) currently start at US$400 per troy ounce. Osmium is the densest naturally-occurring element, at 22.59 grams per cubic centimeter. (Depleted uranium is only 19.1 g/cm3 and costs circa $26 per ounce, while lead is merely 11. 34 g/cm3 and costs roughly a dollar a pound when purchased in ton lots.) It's also one of the rarest natural and non-radioactive elements in the earth's crust.

Aside: while looking for that info, I happened across a 2017 article giving info on the world's 25 strongest militaries.

Russia was #2.

Ukraine was not on the list.

Might need an update.

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3 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

The A-10 cooks off rounds very fast. if it is aiming at a tank, head to head, it seems that there is fair statistical odds that a round or more go into the tank barrel before the tank gets off a shot

An A-10 that fires head to head with a tank is flying way too low.  In fact I think the gears down height of an A-10 is higher than the height of a tank.

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19 hours ago, mlooney said:

An A-10 that fires head to head with a tank is flying way too low.  In fact I think the gears down height of an A-10 is higher than the height of a tank.

I do believe you are right, and A-10 is tall on the runway, it would probably shoot over modern tanks, which are invariably built with a low profile.

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1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I'll give Putin this: In his environment, he remains alive. In his environment, that's a good trick.

The special military operation isn't over yet.  Him staying alive isn't a lock.

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On 30 August of this year Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev died at the age of 91.  Almost no foreign dignitaries attended the funeral.  Many current and former world leaders wanted to pay their respects to the last Soviet leader but could not, or would not, go to Moscow under current conditions.  Putin could not be bothered to attend the official funeral, but made an appearance at a private viewing.

Contrast that to the Funeral of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II where the Abby of Westminster was filled to capacity with much of them world leaders and royalty.

Who will attend Putin's funeral?

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4 hours ago, mlooney said:

The special military operation isn't over yet.  Him staying alive isn't a lock.

Aside from 'That's true for every one', yes, he is indeed in a precarious position, but again, giving him his just props, he has made a career out of staying alive.

He is living the motto, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit."

 

2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

On 30 August of this year Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev died at the age of 91.  Almost no foreign dignitaries attended the funeral.  Many current and former world leaders wanted to pay their respects to the last Soviet leader but could not, or would not, go to Moscow under current conditions.  Putin could not be bothered to attend the official funeral, but made an appearance at a private viewing.

Contrast that to the Funeral of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II where the Abby of Westminster was filled to capacity with much of them world leaders and royalty.

Who will attend Putin's funeral?

Gorbachev deserved some recognition. He was a reformer, if a reluctant one.

For all her foibles, Queen Elizabeth had some chops. She was no slacker.

I'd attend Putin's funeral. Will they have popcorn? I propose 'So long, it's been good to know ya!' as the funerary song. The spoof version, if you can find it. Or 'Putin on the Fritz". Or 'Plop Goes the Weasel'.

 

 

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Henry Army's Light Taffy Brigade V 3.0. Got it.

 

Taffy 3 accomplished a lot, a key event within a key event; Henry V as well, but with less lasting impact; the Light Brigade, not so much.

 

The Light Brigade got a nice poem. Henry's speech in Shakespeare's play is much more memorable.

 

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On 10/25/2022 at 3:57 PM, mlooney said:

Thought by many, myself included, to be the US navy's finest hour

Mitigates, though, by the main fleet chasing squirrels elsewhere, so to speak, making their sacrifices necessary.

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16 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Mitigates, though, by the main fleet chasing squirrels elsewhere, so to speak, making their sacrifices necessary.

Yeah, not saying that the main fleet was doing the right thing.  Halsey made some boneheaded blunders.

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5 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

I bet he was real popular with the men of Taffy 3 afterwards. The survivors, anyway.

Admiral Halsey is a good example of that line in 'The Gambler', "Every hand's a winner, and every hand's a looser, ..."

He was an aggressive combatant, and accomplished much in keeping US momentum moving forward in the Pacific; a lesser commander might have stalled on numerous occasions. The near-fiasco at Leyte Gulf was a result of the same mindset, Halsey was going after the remaining Japanese carriers in the pacific, and to be entirely fair, he accomplished his goal. Leaving back one main element of his task force would have provided much better support, and ultimately, through his being second-guessed, they were not present at his battle, on their way back to Leyte Gulf, where they were no longer needed.

The degree of determination he wielded is often coincident with a certain blindness to other options.

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1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

I will say this: aggression is overall a desirable trait in a military commander. Mistakes of action are almost always better than mistakes of inaction. General McLellan did not really accomplish much while in charge of the Union army, for example.

Hear, hear. Exactly what I thought when I read the first part of your post.

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1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

Mistakes of action are almost always better than mistakes of inaction.

Back when I was a radar tech in the US army I was told, repeatably, that if there was an failure of the system during an evaluation I would be supported in any repair actions I made, even if they turned out to be wrong.  Dithering about what to do would NOT be supported and could lead to disciplinary action.

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3 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

I will say this: aggression is overall a desirable trait in a military commander. Mistakes of action are almost always better than mistakes of inaction. General McLellan did not really accomplish much while in charge of the Union army, for example.

I thought of him as I was writing about Halsey.

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Dear random spammers:

I'm not a marine, nor have I ever been one. I've never been to Camp Lejeune. Please stop sending me emails about the water there.

Thanks!

Army vet.

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1 hour ago, mlooney said:

Dear random spammers:

I'm not a marine, nor have I ever been one. I've never been to Camp Lejeune. Please stop sending me emails about the water there.

Thanks!

Army vet.

You could be both. In the USAF I met a guy with Navy water wings on his uniform, he had transferred. Badge looked so out of place. I also knew a guy that had prior Coast Guard time.

I think there's a public road that cuts across the camp, going from the highway heading out to Cape Hatteras, dropping down to Morehead City. It's not a huge camp by Army standards, but it's still pretty big.

The whole eastern Carolina area is some dry ground and lots of marsh. Lovely place. :P

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