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The Old Hack

Discussion of Military, real or fictional

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19 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Significantly, in the video, the 22LR rounds show no sign of expansion as they penetrated the panels. Better for penetration, but an exit wound would be small.

 

I suspect it has something to do with the fact that dry wall is exactly that dry, and doesn't really provide the stopping effect of wet stuff.  See Mythbusters and firing into water.  

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43 minutes ago, mlooney said:

I suspect it has something to do with the fact that dry wall is exactly that dry, and doesn't really provide the stopping effect of wet stuff.  See Mythbusters and firing into water.  

"Alright, looking for volunteers for a study to validate a question raised on Quora. Line up, single file, at the taped line. Blindfolds in place ... ear protectors on ... <pop, pop, pop> ... Well, damn, I guess they do penetrate ... You probably shouldn't use these for Airsoft ..."

I saw that Mythbusters, it was impressive. Water was quite effective at stopping bullets. But water is pretty special; the molecules are highly polarized, which seems like it would contribute considerable to drag. I wonder if a greasy bullet would do better; that seems to be the strategy much of sea life employs.

I don't think that applies to most wall material. Walls might be damp, but they are substantially a solid material barrier. Sheetrock is a sheet of plaster; it's not know for high strength. What strength it does have is almost entirely compressive, not much tensile strength, other than the grey board facing. You don't see a lot of do it yourself project based on sheetrock, like, "I built this lovely divan using only a sheet and a half of sheetrock."

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Is Russian looting as they retreat considered to be Christmas shopping, or is it too early?

Are they actually funnier than Warhammer Orcs? Putin is more of a goblin, right?

In light of this, should the 'real or fictional' be dropped from the thread title? It seems the two are merging.

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1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Significantly, in the video, the 22LR rounds show no sign of expansion as they penetrated the panels. Better for penetration, but an exit wound would be small.

A relevant question would be whether the bullets are lead-tipped or full-metal-jacket. Lead is soft and would expand more easily, while jacketed bullets would be harder and resist expansion.

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33 minutes ago, ijuin said:

A relevant question would be whether the bullets are lead-tipped or full-metal-jacket. Lead is soft and would expand more easily, while jacketed bullets would be harder and resist expansion.

I think that the type of ammo used in that demo was "stinger" type ammo, which I believe are FMJ.  Not sure.  I know that most 22lr are lead tipped. 

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32 minutes ago, ijuin said:

A relevant question would be whether the bullets are lead-tipped or full-metal-jacket. Lead is soft and would expand more easily, while jacketed bullets would be harder and resist expansion.

I could be wrong, but I don't think 22LR is available with a jacket; if they are, I've never seen them. <Google search> ... Well, wadaya know, yes, you can get copper jacketed 22LR ammo. Also, much discussion how it is unnecessary, due to (relatively) low bullet velocity. Also, many of the jacketed 22LRs pictured have a hollow point, which would enhance expansion.

<Shrug> All news to me.

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I've only seen lead 22lr, but I haven't seen any 22lr ammo this century.  A fast google shows that FMJ rounds tend to be target rounds, and the sub-sonic rounds (which is what was mentioned in the original post) have all been lead.  I'm not sure that sub sonic rounds mushroom as much as super sonic rounds.  I know that standard ball ammo in .45 cal don't mushroom that much, but those tend to be FMJ rounds.  This, granted, is based on digging them out of the sandbags behind the targets we qualified on back when I was in the army.

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1 hour ago, mlooney said:

I've only seen lead 22lr, but I haven't seen any 22lr ammo this century. 

Huh, come to think of it, neither have I.

I've also heard that 22 ammo, long and short, goes bad faster than other ammo, something about not being sealed as well. Sounded plausible when I heard it.

I have actually shot 22SR, in a YMCA day camp. It was more than adequate for a group of twelve year old first time shooters.

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For a country that has proven  bad command and control systems, Russia sure has a lot of different types of command and control vehicles.  Based on the Worldwide Equipment Guide they have 27 types, and that doesn't include the "K" series of tanks.  The US has 2 types C2 vehicles, one for Styker and one for everyone else.

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39 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Were those anything like the Chrysler K Cars?  I had a few of them . . . 

Well, were you  supposed to command between 10 and 30 other non K Chrysler cars?  Did you have 2 antenna?  If so, yeah, if not, not so much.

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22 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

Your quote, and the one two days prior, are not unique to WW II, but are particularly apt for that era. 9 Chickweed Lane also has a WW II story arc. The writer, Brooke McEldowney,  is turning 70 this year, not old enough to remember the era directly. It apparently made an impression on him for some reason.

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4 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

10 out of 10. I wouldn't say it was easy, I was unsure a couple of times.

Since I spend about 30% of my waking hours dealing with one sort or another of military vehicle data, it was no thought needed.  Given a few minutes thought I could name all the vehicles, not just give their class.

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I have absotively no military vehicle knowledge whatsoever, yet I got 7 out of 10 right. I missed the Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV), Self-propelled anti-aircraft gun (SPAAG), and 'Technical' wrong. Wonder which ones they were?

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57 minutes ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

I have absotively no military vehicle knowledge whatsoever, yet I got 7 out of 10 right. I missed the Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV), Self-propelled anti-aircraft gun (SPAAG), and 'Technical' wrong. Wonder which ones they were?

'Technical' is a civilian vehicle modified for military use. They had a pickup truck with a mounted gun, I believe.

'Anti-aircraft gun' is going to have guns, not missiles, aimed up, and some sort of tracking device.

'Infantry Fighting Vehicle' is an armored vehicle, along the lines of a tank with a much smaller gun, but bigger than a man would carry.

I had trouble with the third one, I think it was, it was a big gun on a tracked vehicle, and looked to have a plate welded to keep the barrel steady and straight, but down. The thought crossed my mind that could be a tank destroyer, but then I though about the tank destroys I've seen, and they had better armor. So self propelled gun it was.

The first missile vehicle looked like anti air, and it was, but that was not obvious until I saw the second one, bristling with ballistic 'Howdy do?'s.

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My understanding is that the chief distinction between a tank and an armored self-propelled howitzer is that the tank is capable of traversing its gun without rotating the entire vehicle, whereas the self-propelled artillery piece can not (i.e. no main turret).

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