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Illjwamh

Comic for Friday, Apr. 7, 2023

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Susan does not need to join the spooky branch of the FBI.

But Zeus could use a refresher cryptography course.

Human courts would have no problem seizing Susan's phone records.  If another immortal wanted to snoop, D-4 would not provide much cover.

 

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Well, this shows that the mystery person that caught Diane and took her to the nurses room was most likely an immortal, refreshed Pandora if I was to put a bet on it.  Given my current streak of being incorrect on things I wouldn't bet the farm on that however... 

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I can see Susan figuring out that Zeus is trying to talk to her, also that he wants it to be somewhat private. The mental leap to 'He's talking about Immortal law' seems a bit forced; not enough context to go there. Why would she even think that Immortal law can change?

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The “no longer able to pass through physical walls” seems a stretch, but the others seem plausible. I think that he was talking about some other form of barrier.

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42 minutes ago, ijuin said:

The “no longer able to pass through physical walls” seems a stretch, but the others seem plausible. I think that he was talking about some other form of barrier.

You would think that at the very least, they could phase in and out of our reality, bypassing barriers in the process. <shrug> We'll see.

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6 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I can see Susan figuring out that Zeus is trying to talk to her, also that he wants it to be somewhat private. The mental leap to 'He's talking about Immortal law' seems a bit forced; not enough context to go there. Why would she even think that Immortal law can change?

Why would she think that it can't?

And what other sort of change might Jerry/Zeus be warning her of, that he'd (think he should) try to be secretive about?

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3 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

Why would she think that it can't?

And what other sort of change might Jerry/Zeus be warning her of, that he'd (think he should) try to be secretive about?

Being human, she does not expect the rules for her existence to change; gravity will be there tomorrow, she will need to eat, drink, and breathe, assuming she lives to the next day. The fundamental framework of our environment has been mostly stable throughout recorded history. I think she would project similar expectations on the Immortal's realm; different rules than ours, but stable. After all, we only learned it could change when Voltaire made it evident by canvasing.

Also, there are constraints on the Immortals, maybe beyond their self-constraining. Pandora did not bring her dead husband back from the dead. I would guess that she would have if she could have.

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On the other hand, Immortal Law in the sense that Zeus refers to is legislation in the same sense as human law, arrived at by agreement of those persons so empowered by their society. It is thus subject to revision when said persons collectively will it.

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1 hour ago, ijuin said:

On the other hand, Immortal Law in the sense that Zeus refers to is legislation in the same sense as human law, arrived at by agreement of those persons so empowered by their society. It is thus subject to revision when said persons collectively will it.

You've heard the song, 'Camelot', right?

Quote

It's true, it's true, the crown has made it clear
The climate must be perfect all the year

A law was made a distant moon ago here
July and August cannot be too hot
And there's a legal limit to the snow here in Camelot

The winter is forbidden till December
And exits March the second on the dot
By order, summer lingers through September in Camelot

Camelot: Camelot
I know it sounds a bit bizarre
But in Camelot: Camelot
That's how conditions are

The rain may never fall till after sundown
By eight, the morning fog must disappear
In short, there's simply not a more congenial spot
For happily ever after in than here in Camelot

Camelot: Camelot
I know it gives a person pause
But in Camelot: Camelot
Those are the legal laws

The snow may never slush upon the hillside
By nine p.m. the moonlight must appear
In short, there's simply not a more congenial spot
For happily ever after in than here in Camelot

It's making a point in a humorous way, some things are beyond legislating.

Daylight savings time does not actually save daylight, it shifts our schedule.

You cannot repeal the law of gravity, no mater how dire the need.

There was no reason to assume the Immortal environment was not likewise, until it was demonstrated to be so.

 

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Certainly physical conditions are beyond legislating, but the Immortals’ own behavior vis a vis what is taboo or forbidden to them has likely been changed. Certainly, if Voltaire has gotten any part of what he wanted, their leeway to interact with Mortals has expanded beyond strictly “guide and empower”.

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3 hours ago, ijuin said:

Certainly physical conditions are beyond legislating, but the Immortals’ own behavior vis a vis what is taboo or forbidden to them has likely been changed. Certainly, if Voltaire has gotten any part of what he wanted, their leeway to interact with Mortals has expanded beyond strictly “guide and empower”.

You raise a good point, misguided or not, Voltaire was hoping to influence an actual change.

Counterpoints: First, read above again, " There was no reason to assume the Immortal environment was not likewise, until it was demonstrated to be so."That is in fact the demonstration that Immortal law can be changed. There is another, the Griffin world has different rules. Both are laid out after years of the comic, no prior reason to assume their realm would change.

Also, Voltaire was also hoping that magic would change when Tedd as a seer would fail to convince it not too. Given his grand strategy, and that this was significant to him, it seems reasonable to assume that the rules of magic act as constraints on the Immortals. In effect, it is their analog of physical conditions. And we already have reason to believe their powers have limits, again, see above, Pandora did not resurrect her mate. 

I believe we are viewing this differently; I'm not seeing this as just taboos, rather there are reasons to the agreed rules. We don't know what they are (other than as plot devices); we've already seen that the Immortals have a different set of ethics (although Jerry was able to judge that Susan and Nanase had been badly used and apologized.)

Are these rules essentially ethics? I don't think so. The ethics of the Immortals seem to be all over the map. How do they view humanity? Are they benevolent? Why would they be? Being unnecessarily cruel might be wrong, but beyond that . . .

What, in fact, is the purpose of the rules? Why have Immortals agreed together to hold to a set of common constraints? I keep circling back that it must in some sense be like having rules about protecting the environment. You've got to live in it, make sure you keep it livable.

; V m\   <--- dead horse has been beat.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

 

20 hours ago, ijuin said:

The “no longer able to pass through physical walls” seems a stretch, but the others seem plausible. I think that he was talking about some other form of barrier.

You would think that at the very least, they could phase in and out of our reality, bypassing barriers in the process. <shrug> We'll see.

 

I think that Pandora not being able to pull off this trick is simply an indication of how young and relatively powerless she is right now.

 

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12 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

What, in fact, is the purpose of the rules? Why have Immortals agreed together to hold to a set of common constraints? I keep circling back that it must in some sense be like having rules about protecting the environment. You've got to live in it, make sure you keep it livable.

Or keep the "toys" (ordinary Humans) in playable condition.

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Susan should have enough information to know that Immortal law is more of a gentlebeings agreement than natural law. Mr. Verres would have shared enough information after the kids various Immortal encounters to keep them somewhat safe and Zeus blurted as much to Diane. She also knows that Magic itself has changed somewhat, the extent still not fully determined. She would be looking for and expecting differences.

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5 hours ago, Amiable Dorsai said:

Susan should have enough information to know that Immortal law is more of a gentlebeings agreement than natural law. Mr. Verres would have shared enough information after the kids various Immortal encounters to keep them somewhat safe and Zeus blurted as much to Diane. She also knows that Magic itself has changed somewhat, the extent still not fully determined. She would be looking for and expecting differences.

A gentlebeings agreement that kills you if you violate it.*

"Hell of a club we joined here, isn't it?"

"Yes, I hear old Skip Johnson got iced for an insufficient tip."

"Well, we can't leave just anyone join!"

 

*For various degrees of 'killed'.

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I'm not really sure that Susan has been told the immortal's old laws "on camera".  I don't think Jerry did tell them.  It's possible that Edward told her.

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