np NP, Wednesday November 30, 2016

[Entropy 8]

On 02/12/2016 at 10:28 PM, hkmaly said:

He can date Ashley because she's totally different. (Well ... she MIGHT remind him Nanase a bit, but not that much.)

Actually, I think that if there's someone that Ashley might remind him, is Tedd.

[hkmaly 490]

24 minutes ago, Entropy said:

On 12/02/2016 at 1:28 AM, hkmaly said:

He can date Ashley because she's totally different. (Well ... she MIGHT remind him Nanase a bit, but not that much.)

Actually, I think that if there's someone that Ashley might remind him, is Tedd.

I don't think he would like to date Tedd when awake. Although ... wait ... maybe that's not so crazy idea ...

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

Hey, right now we know that Elliot can swap physical sexes and doesn't really care which he is most of the time, Tedd can change physical sex to match his current gender, and Elliot is aggressively against homophobia.  If Tedd can get over his lingering issues with being romantic with male forms other than his own, they'd be perfect for each other!  And I suspect Grace would be fine with a triad, or whatever shape they'd end up with....

[Don Edwards 548]

But, aside from that one secret-identity form (that I can't remember the name we gave it) we don't know if Elliot is sexually attracted to males. And the secret-identity forms are known to be mind-altering.

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

He seemed pretty attracted to male-Sarah at Grace's birthday party, but the TFG can also alter such things.  I can't think if any evidence one way or another, and even if I could, it's possible his orientation has broadened as much as his gender identity has.

[mlooney 3,417]

13 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

He seemed pretty attracted to male-Sarah at Grace's birthday party, but the TFG can also alter such things.  I can't think if any evidence one way or another, and even if I could, it's possible his orientation has broadened as much as his gender identity has.

Towards the end of "So a date in the Mall" he did seem to be happy that she was cute and sexy.  I mixing the pronouns here on purpose.   While Elliot may be gender meh, I think Elliot's base line identity is male, but Cheerleadra is female, if that makes sense.

18 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

that one secret-identity form (that I can't remember the name we gave it)

No given name, just "Mild Mannered form" or words to that affect.

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

20 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

that one secret-identity form (that I can't remember the name we gave it)

I think someone suggested Mildred (for Mild-mannered) but it never really caught on.

[hkmaly 490]

1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

Hey, right now we know that Elliot can swap physical sexes and doesn't really care which he is most of the time, Tedd can change physical sex to match his current gender, and Elliot is aggressively against homophobia.  If Tedd can get over his lingering issues with being romantic with male forms other than his own, they'd be perfect for each other!  And I suspect Grace would be fine with a triad, or whatever shape they'd end up with....

But Sarah would object. Also, what about Ashley? And Susan?

1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

He seemed pretty attracted to male-Sarah at Grace's birthday party, but the TFG can also alter such things.

If by "can" you mean "is designed to do by default" ... and his female transformations are supposed to be based on FV5 TF gun transformation. He might be bisexual in ALL female forms and not just Heidi where it's obviously part of the form. (Or maybe only Mildred might be "straight" as part of camouflage.)

1 hour ago, mlooney said:

Towards the end of "So a date in the Mall" he did seem to be happy that she was cute and sexy.  I mixing the pronouns here on purpose.   While Elliot may be gender meh, I think Elliot's base line identity is male, but Cheerleadra is female, if that makes sense.

Either that or Elliot's base identity WAS male. But taking Ellen as example, being bisexual doesn't imply being biromantic no matter what's your base line identity.

[Cpt. Obvious 73]

7 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I think someone suggested Mildred (for Mild-mannered) but it never really caught on.

And I'm still pouting...
 

[Scotty 1,061]

Just now, hkmaly said:

If by "can" you mean "is designed to do by default" ... and his female transformations are supposed to be based on FV5 TF gun transformation. He might be bisexual in ALL female forms and not just Heidi where it's obviously part of the form. (Or maybe only Mildred might be "straight" as part of camouflage.)

We haven't seen evidence that Elliot was attracted to males in his standard female morphs, just the secret ID forms, and the goth form seemed more attracted to herself than anyone else but Elliot hasn't used that identity in public yet. While the original morph spell is based on FV5, it's missing key components of it, which Ellen's beams do have, but then Ellen's spell is supposed to mimic the TFG a lot more accurately.

Just now, hkmaly said:

Either that or Elliot's base identity WAS male. But taking Ellen as example, being bisexual doesn't imply being biromantic no matter what's your base line identity.

Ellen is different in that she's is Elliot as he was originally "cursed", meaning when Elliot was first transformed into a girl, the TFG made him bisexual. When he touched the diamond, that bisexuality went to Ellen, but even Ellen wasn't comfortable being with guys so she went with what was most natural.

[hkmaly 490]

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

If by "can" you mean "is designed to do by default" ... and his female transformations are supposed to be based on FV5 TF gun transformation. He might be bisexual in ALL female forms and not just Heidi where it's obviously part of the form. (Or maybe only Mildred might be "straight" as part of camouflage.)

We haven't seen evidence that Elliot was attracted to males in his standard female morphs, just the secret ID forms, and the goth form seemed more attracted to herself than anyone else but Elliot hasn't used that identity in public yet. While the original morph spell is based on FV5, it's missing key components of it, which Ellen's beams do have, but then Ellen's spell is supposed to mimic the TFG a lot more accurately.

That's why I said "might". Remember that Elliot the boy scout might not be attracted visibly ...

... but yes, we have no evidence for that and obviously (as seen on chart) Elliot is not affected by some components of FV5 (although I'm not sure what you mean by "key" components. Some key components are definitely present by default).

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

Ellen is different in that she's is Elliot as he was originally "cursed", meaning when Elliot was first transformed into a girl, the TFG made him bisexual. When he touched the diamond, that bisexuality went to Ellen, but even Ellen wasn't comfortable being with guys so she went with what was most natural.

Elliot obtained the ability to reassume a facsimile of the transformed state.

Ellen feels that her attraction to girls is real and her feelings for guys are tacked on. I still think the bisexual homoromantic is description fitting her quite good as far as this descriptions usually fit. Also, she mentioned using "Tedd ex machina" to get children with Nanase ... she might not though it through, but if she did, hard to say which option would she prefer ...

[Scotty 1,061]

37 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

(although I'm not sure what you mean by "key" components.

I meant as in the bisexuality and the pheromones, although the pheromones weren't a permanent effect and I'm not sure if Ellen's beam gives targets those either.

37 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Ellen feels that her attraction to girls is real and her feelings for guys are tacked on. I still think the bisexual homoromantic is description fitting her quite good as far as this descriptions usually fit. Also, she mentioned using "Tedd ex machina" to get children with Nanase ... she might not though it through, but if she did, hard to say which option would she prefer ...

I'd like to take a page from Grace and think that if Nanase and Ellen care enough for each other, they'd have no problems with one of them changing gender for the sake of having children.

[Tom Sewell 268]

10 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I'd like to take a page from Grace and think that if Nanase and Ellen care enough for each other, they'd have no problems with one of them changing gender for the sake of having children.

Well, it would be nice if they took turns being pregnant, but while Ellen could have some issues with being male (although she was perfectly okay helping Sarah and Grace creating a male V5 form), Nanase's already tried out being male and didn't seem to have any problem once she made the switch. Hey, she even made a "Manase" doll for Ellen.

BTW, "Manase" is a valid Japanese name--for girls.

[ijuin 572]

The birthday party did show that Ellen is not turned off by Nanase taking a male form even without Ellen having a TF-gun hormone boost.

[hkmaly 490]

5 hours ago, Scotty said:

6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

(although I'm not sure what you mean by "key" components.

I meant as in the bisexuality and the pheromones, although the pheromones weren't a permanent effect and I'm not sure if Ellen's beam gives targets those either.

Considering Ellen never did have those special pheromones, I think they are missing from both Elliot and Ellen's spells. They also get nerfed heavily anyway. Meanwhile, Ellen's beams making person bisexual is confirmed in canon.

2 hours ago, ijuin said:

The birthday party did show that Ellen is not turned off by Nanase taking a male form even without Ellen having a TF-gun hormone boost.

Yup. Which would suggest that if it's Nanase, she can imagine being with guy.

[Scotty 1,061]

Just now, hkmaly said:

10 minutes ago, ijuin said:

The birthday party did show that Ellen is not turned off by Nanase taking a male form even without Ellen having a TF-gun hormone boost.

Yup. Which would suggest that if it's Nanase, she can imagine being with guy.

Ellen was turned off by the idea of Nanase being a guy at the party initially because she had recently dreamt about sleeping with Archie in her second life, and it freaked her out. She mainly put up with it though because she liked Nanase. I think part of the reason Ellen chose to tell Nanase about the experience with Archie and considering herself a lesbian wasn't just to get Nanase to come out as well, but considering Nanase accepted the idea of being turned into a guy as an excuse to flirt with Ellen without raising suspicion, if Ellen picked up on that, she might have hoped to get the message across that Nanase didn't have to be a guy to be with her.

[hkmaly 490]

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

Ellen was turned off by the idea of Nanase being a guy at the party initially because she had recently dreamt about sleeping with Archie in her second life, and it freaked her out. She mainly put up with it though because she liked Nanase. I think part of the reason Ellen chose to tell Nanase about the experience with Archie and considering herself a lesbian wasn't just to get Nanase to come out as well, but considering Nanase accepted the idea of being turned into a guy as an excuse to flirt with Ellen without raising suspicion, if Ellen picked up on that, she might have hoped to get the message across that Nanase didn't have to be a guy to be with her.

Hmmmm ... true, she was eager to see the party before it happened but was nervous on the party itself ... but note that Ellen already knew Nanase is lesbian and might've already though about using the party as opportunity to get her out of closet. Her first reaction on Nanase is hard to decipher ... and she got annoyed at Sarah afterwards ...

[Scotty 1,061]

2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

she was eager to see the party before it happened but was nervous on the party itself

Her dream in which she slept with Archie likely happened between those moments which would explain the sudden shift in Ellen's view of the party, before she was fine with everyone swapping genders, then suddenly she wished only the guys would become girls.

33 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Her first reaction on Nanase is hard to decipher

Her reaction to seeing "Manase" doesn't really give us a lot to go on, I could see some saying that Ellen was uncomfortable with seeing Nanase like that. And some could see Ellen slipping up and her bisexuality kicking in and thinking Nanase's form was attractive. The thing is though neither of them really acted on it in any way and, well, Nanase turned back to normal before the confessions were made which could be seen as "Ellen likes me, I like her, but she just told me she's uncomfortable being with guys so this form is no longer needed".

33 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

and she got annoyed at Sarah afterwards ...

That wasn't really relevant to Sarah being turned into a guy, but more the fact that Sarah's freakout hit quite close to home with Ellen's reason for existing.

[hkmaly 490]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

she was eager to see the party before it happened but was nervous on the party itself

Her dream in which she slept with Archie likely happened between those moments which would explain the sudden shift in Ellen's view of the party, before she was fine with everyone swapping genders, then suddenly she wished only the guys would become girls.

Yup.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Her reaction to seeing "Manase" doesn't really give us a lot to go on

Yup.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

and she got annoyed at Sarah afterwards ...

That wasn't really relevant to Sarah being turned into a guy, but more the fact that Sarah's freakout hit quite close to home with Ellen's reason for existing.

Yup. I was just saying that if she had any more reaction to Nanase as man, it might've been shadowed by her reaction to this event, and later to her reaction to the revealing outfit.

Wait. What is Ellen talking about here? I mean, it's likely related to Nanase and their relationship, but what exactly is that "something"?

[Scotty 1,061]

5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Wait. What is Ellen talking about here? I mean, it's likely related to Nanase and their relationship, but what exactly is that "something"?

I think Ellen was trying to tell Justin what she ended up telling Nanase. What she was asking Justin amounted to the initial bisexuality that the V5 form gave her, she tried to embrace it as part of her identity which accounted for all the flirting with guys and talking about them being hot and such, but then Archie happened and she was like "This isn't really what I want, is it?"

[hkmaly 490]

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

I think Ellen was trying to tell Justin what she ended up telling Nanase. What she was asking Justin amounted to the initial bisexuality that the V5 form gave her, she tried to embrace it as part of her identity which accounted for all the flirting with guys and talking about them being hot and such, but then Archie happened and she was like "This isn't really what I want, is it?"

So, the "something" would be "bisexuality". Yes, that fits.

(Also, I would say that she tried to NOT tell him but get answer anyway.)

[Scotty 1,061]

3 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

(Also, I would say that she tried to NOT tell him but get answer anyway.)

Yeah, was was going the roundabout way with Justin, but seems like she made her decision by the time she talked to Nanase about it.

[Don Edwards 548]

On 12/4/2016 at 11:54 PM, hkmaly said:

Ellen's beams making person bisexual is confirmed in canon.

And now I'm wondering what it would do to a guy who's strictly gay...

[mlooney 3,417]

3 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

And now I'm wondering what it would do to a guy who's strictly gay...

In canon the TF gun makes them heterosexual female¹, and Ellen's beam works the same way, based on Ellen and Susan's conversation about it.

¹See Susan and Justin.

[Vorlonagent 442]

13 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

And now I'm wondering what it would do to a guy who's strictly gay...

Tedd talks about that briefly at Grace's Birthday party...