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liontari

STORY: Friday March 18, 2016

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4 hours ago, Zorua said:

So... The sock universe is the Lost and Found? Seems legit.

Great. Now we have to wonder if Lord Tedd's/Beta Tedd's/Magus's universes are other faces of this one's die or other dice/coins entirely. As if the multiverse wasn't complicated enough.

Probably other dice/coins.

4 hours ago, DragonTrainer said:

I would imagine that magical energy was supposed to flow freely between the two worlds (ley lines?).  I'm sure that there's another, separate spot where Moperville's world gets their magic from the griffon world.

Likely not only one. Andrea said "one of the spots" and it will likely be valid for both "directions".

3 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:

Then again, Andrea pretty much said that Moperville is not the only place where magic travels between the two worlds, so maybe the problem is not at the griffins' end at all. They might just be worried that this half of the world can't handle too much ambient magic.

It's likely not world-wide catastrophe, but there will be local problem - possible area where it's harder for mages to replenish their magic reserves.

3 hours ago, Wildcat said:

I find it hard to believe it doesn't cause problems of some sort on their side. My best guess would be as you said about making it harder to learn new magic. So if it persists it might cause the slow die out of magic users over there

... aaand, possibly it's harder for people to awaken in that area.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

When we talk about Lord Tedd and Magus, that's dealing with alternate realities where Tedd and Elliot had different lives.

Another idea: what if Lord Tedd and Magus are from different halves of the same universe? Of course, that would invalidate pet theory of some people here that Magus is Elliot alternate and Terra Tedd's alternate.

1 hour ago, SeriousJupiter said:
1 hour ago, Wildcat said:

On the other hand. The flows of magic might eventually adjust, with more flowing through the other "drains" and eventually acting like there was never one in Moperville to start with.

I agree. Remember, magic has a mind of its own (probably). I'm sure it would figure out how to restore the balance sooner or later.

Sort of mind. Yes, definitely. It's not like clog in Moperville can affect whole universe including the Uryuom planet.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I would think if it was that simple, magic would have done so already, either diverted the flow to say Detroit or Thunder Bay, or even create a new drain in Chicago. I'm guessing that magic, having a flair for the dramatic, also wants to see what the main eight does to fix this and is tossing hints here and there (via Disco Wizard) while munching on a bowl of popcorn. The system change would be a last resort if the main eight fails and/or things go too wildly out of hand.

Maybe it's already happening. Remember that even after "fixing" the balance between universes the local anomaly of Moperville may remain. Or yes: magic having flair for dramatic will prefer solution which would be flashy and sudden instead of smooth and hard to notice, but the buildup needs to have some size before flashy solution can happen.

... and the system change may or may not be related. I see two separate issues here: the inbalance of magic, magic clog and buildup AND the end of masquerade, more magic users and currently unknown parts of Pandora's plan and system change. Pandora is using the magic buildup to power the end of masquerade, maybe even caused it, but it's just tool for her, the goal is end of masquerade. And magic may respond independently to the clog itself and to the general danger of Pandora's plan.

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Just now, Wildcat said:

I'm pretty sure it's Pandora. I don't think it's been explicitly stated anywhere though

That's what I assumed too, but if it was her, how is she doing it? There are limits on what Immortals can do, and Pandora follows those rules because if she didn't, it'd be boringly easy for her and she'd likely also get found out by other Immortals.

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Just now, partner555 said:
3 minutes ago, Wildcat said:

I'm pretty sure it's Pandora. I don't think it's been explicitly stated anywhere though

That's what I assumed too, but if it was her, how is she doing it? There are limits on what Immortals can do, and Pandora follows those rules because if she didn't, it'd be boringly easy for her and she'd likely also get found out by other Immortals.

It definitely seems like too much of coincidence for her to NOT have something to do with it ... but it's still open question if she does it directly or indirectly, and if indirectly how.

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Another idea: what if Lord Tedd and Magus are from different halves of the same universe? Of course, that would invalidate pet theory of some people here that Magus is Elliot alternate and Terra Tedd's alternate.

There is a possibility that Nioi might have originated from the other half of Lord Tedd's world, maybe the paths between the two halves are more open and people move freely between the two, same with Ellen's second life reality, could explain Kaoli and the other non-human, non-chimera types in that world. It just happens to be rarer that people travel between the two halves in this reality.

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FFFFF-Tedd!!!!

I would actually give my take on the dice and coin metaphors, but I will not even go and wing it. Then again, are worlds not connected through a loop? Then the tail of one coin would also be the head of the other?

If we would want to know the people who are from "alt-EGS", should we not make a Venn diagram?

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Another idea: what if Lord Tedd and Magus are from different halves of the same universe? Of course, that would invalidate pet theory of some people here that Magus is Elliot alternate and Terra Tedd's alternate.

There is a possibility that Nioi might have originated from the other half of Lord Tedd's world, maybe the paths between the two halves are more open and people move freely between the two, same with Ellen's second life reality, could explain Kaoli and the other non-human, non-chimera types in that world. It just happens to be rarer that people travel between the two halves in this reality.

Also good idea. While we have no idea what Kaoli is and only magic she used without tools was transformation (well ... and the nose beep), she doesn't seem to be chimera and seem to be compatible with earth magic. While it's possible the Tedd's half contain her species, being from the half which contain griffins in case of EGS main 'verse would be more likely. The travelling doesn't even need to be that much more common - the griffins doesn't seem like visiting unknown area, it's likely that other visits is or maybe was happening.

(I don't see any conflict with my idea, so I assume there wasn't meant to be any.)

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6 hours ago, Wildcat said:

Do I get to feel a little smug for the coin metaphor now?

Here's a little smug, and you can pet it if you like.

xA chubby, white bunny sitting on a towel.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Maybe it's already happening. Remember that even after "fixing" the balance between universes the local anomaly of Moperville may remain. Or yes: magic having flair for dramatic will prefer solution which would be flashy and sudden instead of smooth and hard to notice, but the buildup needs to have some size before flashy solution can happen.

There's another concern. An area can be very comfortable with a certain flow of water, but if that flow is blocked so there's a buildup and then the buildup is released it can be extremely damaging. (Think of a dam breaking.) Is the same true of magic?

 

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31 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Also good idea. While we have no idea what Kaoli is and only magic she used without tools was transformation (well ... and the nose beep), she doesn't seem to be chimera and seem to be compatible with earth magic. While it's possible the Tedd's half contain her species, being from the half which contain griffins in case of EGS main 'verse would be more likely. The travelling doesn't even need to be that much more common - the griffins doesn't seem like visiting unknown area, it's likely that other visits is or maybe was happening.

(I don't see any conflict with my idea, so I assume there wasn't meant to be any.)

My idea wasn't really trying to argue against yours, just for some reason your idea triggered mine, I guess I got wondering what the two halves of the world in Lord Tedd's reality would be, and thought about Nioi.

What I was getting at before though was I didn't think it'd be possible for there to be two versions of Tedd in the same world, but on separate halves. It doesn't fit the "same world, same reality, two halves" idea, the only way I could see it working is if the "dice theory" is true and some of those sides are somehow magic duplicates in the way that Elliot and Ellen are, but trying to figure out how those worlds could be so different from one another....I guess those sides would have to be aware in some way that a duplication occurred, or at least have been manipulated by something aware of it.

 

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5 hours ago, Wildcat said:

....Well that could be horrifically bad. Then the question is what role does magic have in the world other than overt magic use? How would extremes of magic effect things?

On the other hand. The flows of magic might eventually adjust, with more flowing through the other "drains" and eventually acting like there was never one in Moperville to start with.

Imagine if the sun just disappeared one day.

Then it turns out that it was just going to turn into a supernova.

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11 hours ago, Don Edwards said:
13 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Maybe it's already happening. Remember that even after "fixing" the balance between universes the local anomaly of Moperville may remain. Or yes: magic having flair for dramatic will prefer solution which would be flashy and sudden instead of smooth and hard to notice, but the buildup needs to have some size before flashy solution can happen.

There's another concern. An area can be very comfortable with a certain flow of water, but if that flow is blocked so there's a buildup and then the buildup is released it can be extremely damaging. (Think of a dam breaking.) Is the same true of magic?

I'm sure sudden release of the buildup will be more damaging than dam breaking ... hey, maybe THAT is what Pandora is planing ...

Note that the water metaphor suggests possible scenarios of how the flow of magic balances itself: what will happen if water flow is blocked somewhere? Well, the water will build up there until it reaches level which allows to either go over the blockade (possibly damaging the blockage in the process) or it can flow some other way, leaving a pond.

The going over the blockade is the sudden flashy option. Finding of another way, while possibly also damaging, can be smooth.

11 hours ago, Scotty said:

I didn't think it'd be possible for there to be two versions of Tedd in the same world, but on separate halves.

Agree. No real proof but it makes sense.

10 hours ago, weirdee said:

Imagine if the sun just disappeared one day.

Then it turns out that it was just going to turn into a supernova.

Luckily, stars are very predictable, I'm sure we will know in advance. Magic, on the other hand ...

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

I'm sure sudden release of the buildup will be more damaging than dam breaking ... hey, maybe THAT is what Pandora is planing ...

Note that the water metaphor suggests possible scenarios of how the flow of magic balances itself: what will happen if water flow is blocked somewhere? Well, the water will build up there until it reaches level which allows to either go over the blockade (possibly damaging the blockage in the process) or it can flow some other way, leaving a pond.

The going over the blockade is the sudden flashy option. Finding of another way, while possibly also damaging, can be smooth.

The whale did tell Tedd that magic in the area had reached a peak and is now slowly spreading outwards, so it's basically like the kitchen sink filling up and overflowing,  except instead of water flowing from one source, magic is coming in from multiple sources but it can only be concentrated so much in a single area, hence the peak. That would go along with my idea that not only could all the magic from the griffin's half of the world be drained, but much of the main eight's half of the world could end up condensed in the middle of North America.

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16 hours ago, Wildcat said:

I'm pretty sure it's Pandora. I don't think it's been explicitly stated anywhere though

Though it been implied as hell in the arc about Sarah discovering her powers.

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So it turns out that God does play dice with the world after all.. Or at least flips coins (as you may or may not know, that is a reference to a famous Einstein quote).

This comic is good example of how to do exposition right.

I find the information here rather dry and uninteresting in itself. I'm only interesting in worldbuilding as a part of storytelling. The moment you stop telling a story tends to be when you lose my interest. So recountings of imaginary facts tend to make my eyes glaze over.

But here Dan recounts it so interestingly, with humour and small character moments, so that it goes down rather happily. So good work, Dan.

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I can just imagine Tara giving Andrea an unseen nudge because she was going full scientific dissertation. which is what caused Andrea to get to the point.

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3 hours ago, Scotty said:

The whale did tell Tedd that magic in the area had reached a peak and is now slowly spreading outwards, so it's basically like the kitchen sink filling up and overflowing,  except instead of water flowing from one source, magic is coming in from multiple sources but it can only be concentrated so much in a single area, hence the peak. That would go along with my idea that not only could all the magic from the griffin's half of the world be drained, but much of the main eight's half of the world could end up condensed in the middle of North America.

I can see several dangers caused by this. First of all if the area affected by the heightened magic spread out more people will start noticing that something is going on with both animals and people gaining supernatural abilities. This will eventually blow any attempt to keep the existence or workings of magic secret.

Then there is the risk of someone competent going the aberration route and becoming ridiculously powerful. There's even a risk that someone both competent and malicious learn to use magic and ends up becoming powerful enough to become a major danger, perhaps endangering more than just our world.

There is also the possibility that the clog caused drainage of magic from an area in the first half of this world might cause a huge power shift. I'm basing this on the thought that where magic is recognized as an important part of the world it would be logic to build strongholds in areas where magic is welling into the world. If this particular "well" was the power source for a major faction the clog could mean that they become vulnerable to attack or desperate enough that they initiate an attack on some neighbor.
 

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44 minutes ago, Cpt. Obvious said:

I can see several dangers caused by this. First of all if the area affected by the heightened magic spread out more people will start noticing that something is going on with both animals and people gaining supernatural abilities. This will eventually blow any attempt to keep the existence or workings of magic secret.

Then there is the risk of someone competent going the aberration route and becoming ridiculously powerful. There's even a risk that someone both competent and malicious learn to use magic and ends up becoming powerful enough to become a major danger, perhaps endangering more than just our world.

There is also the possibility that the clog caused drainage of magic from an area in the first half of this world might cause a huge power shift. I'm basing this on the thought that where magic is recognized as an important part of the world it would be logic to build strongholds in areas where magic is welling into the world. If this particular "well" was the power source for a major faction the clog could mean that they become vulnerable to attack or desperate enough that they initiate an attack on some neighbor.
 

Pandora is very likely counting on all of that happening.

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23 hours ago, Scotty said:

I would think if it was that simple, magic would have done so already, either diverted the flow to say Detroit or Thunder Bay, or even create a new drain in Chicago. I'm guessing that magic, having a flair for the dramatic, also wants to see what the main eight does to fix this and is tossing hints here and there (via Disco Wizard) while munching on a bowl of popcorn. The system change would be a last resort if the main eight fails and/or things go too wildly out of hand.

Not a bad theory. However, does magic really trust eight teenagers to be able to solve the problem or is it secretly recruiting other people for the job as well? If nobody can help and magic can't fix the problem either, maybe a system change would indeed be for the best. I don't know if I would want to read storylines about every magic user pretty much having to start from scratch and learning to use their spells again, but it might be interesting.

21 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... and the system change may or may not be related. I see two separate issues here: the inbalance of magic, magic clog and buildup AND the end of masquerade, more magic users and currently unknown parts of Pandora's plan and system change. Pandora is using the magic buildup to power the end of masquerade, maybe even caused it, but it's just tool for her, the goal is end of masquerade. And magic may respond independently to the clog itself and to the general danger of Pandora's plan.

The question is, does Pandora know that what she's doing might cause a system change, or does she actually want that to happen? Pandora is extremely good at predicting things, but I doubt even she can predict exactly what kind of system change might happen. Magic might become so erratic and difficult to learn that perhaps it will even be easier for DGB to keep the availability of magic a secret (assuming, of course, that it's still a secret by that time). Pandora is doing all of this to help her son act freely and do whatever he wants, but who knows, the system change might make things harder for him too.

Of course, Pandora is insane and takes pleasure in not knowing what happens next, so it's likely that she knows all this and just doesn't care.

7 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm sure sudden release of the buildup will be more damaging than dam breaking ... hey, maybe THAT is what Pandora is planing ...

What, she wants to damage the griffins' world? Why would she want that? I don't think that would help Adrian in any way.

6 hours ago, Scotty said:

The whale did tell Tedd that magic in the area had reached a peak and is now slowly spreading outwards, so it's basically like the kitchen sink filling up and overflowing,  except instead of water flowing from one source, magic is coming in from multiple sources but it can only be concentrated so much in a single area, hence the peak. That would go along with my idea that not only could all the magic from the griffin's half of the world be drained, but much of the main eight's half of the world could end up condensed in the middle of North America.

Once again, Moperville is not the only place where magic flows back to the griffins' world, so no, it's highly unlikely that all the magic would be drained from the griffins' world unless every other place where it flows back would get clogged too.

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16 minutes ago, SeriousJupiter said:

Not a bad theory. However, does magic really trust eight teenagers to be able to solve the problem or is it secretly recruiting other people for the job as well? If nobody can help and magic can't fix the problem either, maybe a system change would indeed be for the best. I don't know if I would want to read storylines about every magic user pretty much having to start from scratch and learning to use their spells again, but it might be interesting.

The fact that Magic sent Disco Wizard to warn Grace about Pandora and a possible system change shows that it sees they have the potential to solve the problem, whether it's got others in on it is unknown but at the very least magic does seem to trust the main eight.

16 minutes ago, SeriousJupiter said:

The question is, does Pandora know that what she's doing might cause a system change, or does she actually want that to happen? Pandora is extremely good at predicting things, but I doubt even she can predict exactly what kind of system change might happen. Magic might become so erratic and difficult to learn that perhaps it will even be easier for DGB to keep the availability of magic a secret (assuming, of course, that it's still a secret by that time). Pandora is doing all of this to help her son act freely and do whatever he wants, but who knows, the system change might make things harder for him too.

Of course, Pandora is insane and takes pleasure in not knowing what happens next, so it's likely that she knows all this and just doesn't care.

Pandora probably doesn't know that what she's doing could backfire, unless a system change is what she wants, though I'm not sure how that would allow Adrian to use his abilities freely. I want to lean towards Pandora not knowing that Magic has a will of it's own though. Of course she recently became aware of someone or something telling Grace about magic marks and such, so she may soon become aware of Magic as an entity.

16 minutes ago, SeriousJupiter said:

Once again, Moperville is not the only place where magic flows back to the griffins' world, so no, it's highly unlikely that all the magic would be drained from the griffins' world unless every other place where it flows backs would be blocked too.

No, it's not the only place, I'm basing my theory on the possibility that there aren't any other drains close enough to catch the overflow.

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"I'm basing my theory on the possibility that there aren't any other drains close enough to catch the overflow. "

That isn't theoretically possible unless there's only one drain. If there are two drains then eventually the buildup will reach the other one.

The functional definition of "eventually" matters a lot, though.

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7 minutes ago, Scotty said:

The fact that Magic sent Disco Wizard to warn Grace about Pandora and a possible system change shows that it sees they have the potential to solve the problem, whether it's got others in on it is unknown but at the very least magic does seem to trust the main eight.

I hope so. I'd hate to think that magic is only amusing itself by giving teenagers an impossible task.

8 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Pandora probably doesn't know that what she's doing could backfire, unless a system change is what she wants, though I'm not sure how that would allow Adrian to use his abilities freely. I want to lean towards Pandora not knowing that Magic has a will of it's own though. Of course she recently became aware of someone or something telling Grace about magic marks and such, so she may soon become aware of Magic as an entity.

Yes, if she starts haunting Grace's dreams and pretends to be a friend, she will learn things that might make her either reconsider what she's doing or decide that what she's doing is exactly the right thing. It all depends on what her plan is. We may think we know it, but we could be wrong.

8 minutes ago, Scotty said:

No, it's not the only place, I'm basing my theory on the possibility that there aren't any other drains close enough to catch the overflow.

Even so, not all of Earth's magic goes to Moperville. Magic is all around the planet. There's no way one clog will cause the other side of the world to lose all of its magic.

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9 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

"I'm basing my theory on the possibility that there aren't any other drains close enough to catch the overflow. "

That isn't theoretically possible unless there's only one drain. If there are two drains then eventually the buildup will reach the other one.

The functional definition of "eventually" matters a lot, though.

That's what I'm saying, the next nearest drain could be in Dallas for all we know, the amount of magic energy needed to build up to reach that would be enormous. If there is a closer drain, like Detroit, then the energy in the region will build up to that point then the Detroit drain would pick up the rest and the buildup would end, unless of course Pandora clogs the next drain.

4 minutes ago, SeriousJupiter said:

Even so, not all of Earth's magic goes to Moperville. Magic is all around the planet. There's no way one clog will cause the other side of the world to lose all of its magic.

I'm saying that as magic flows back into the main eight's half, there will be some that tries to flow into Moperville and get caught, that's how the buildup is occurring. Eventuallty less will get into the griffin's half of the world. the energy flow hasn't shown any signs of being diverted away from Moperville. Best example I can come up with is take 5 sinks, fill them with water, and have them all drain into 1 bin with a pump that redistributes the water back to the 5 sinks evenly. Now plug up one of the sinks, water from the other 4 still goes into the bin and gets pumped to all 5 again, the 5th sink is overflowing with water and eventually the amount of water going to the other sinks disappears.

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12 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I'm saying that as magic flows back into the main eight's half, there will be some that tries to flow into Moperville and get caught, that's how the buildup is occurring. Eventuallty less will get into the griffin's half of the world. the energy flow hasn't shown any signs of being diverted away from Moperville. Best example I can come up with is take 5 sinks, fill them with water, and have them all drain into 1 bin with a pump that redistributes the water back to the 5 sinks evenly. Now plug up one of the sinks, water from the other 4 still goes into the bin and gets pumped to all 5 again, the 5th sink is overflowing with water and eventually the amount of water going to the other sinks disappears.

I get what you're saying, but that analogy doesn't really work in this case, because unlike the water in the fifth sink, the magic in Moperville will eventually find a way back to the other side of the world unless Pandora clogs all the other drains too, like you said yourself.

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9 hours ago, Scotty said:

The whale did tell Tedd that magic in the area had reached a peak and is now slowly spreading outwards, so it's basically like the kitchen sink filling up and overflowing,  except instead of water flowing from one source, magic is coming in from multiple sources but it can only be concentrated so much in a single area, hence the peak. That would go along with my idea that not only could all the magic from the griffin's half of the world be drained, but much of the main eight's half of the world could end up condensed in the middle of North America.

Nah. "Slowly spreading outwards" matches more to lake or dam. The kitchen sink is invalid metaphor. The magic can't disappear and there are limits how much can concentrate, so it will spread until reaching other drain.

Interesting that we are talking about UNIVERSES. Like, the immortal was talking about other half of planet, but Andrea talks about universes. That can mean that even if Pandora blocks all drains on Earth, the Moperville anomally will just spread until it reaches the drains on Mars and Venus, and the total amount of magic will STILL be big enough for Uryuom planet to not be affected.

Of course, the other half of Earth would become low-magic area, with drains working but no magic returning, but it will still not be completely without magic because the magic will came from rest of universe.

4 hours ago, Scotty said:

Pandora is very likely counting on all of that happening.

Not only that. Pandora likely already knows not only which of those happens, but also the details. In fact, she might've already marked that guy who will became dangerous - but not TOO dangerous, he would be just the right opponent for Raven.

3 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:

Not a bad theory. However, does magic really trust eight teenagers to be able to solve the problem or is it secretly recruiting other people for the job as well?

I always though all those anime where several teenagers are only chance of Earth are stupid. If I will be doing the recruiting, I wouldn't stop before one hundred.

3 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:

What, she wants to damage the griffins' world? Why would she want that? I don't think that would help Adrian in any way.

Imagine if the damage will take form of permanent always-open connection between the two sides big enough for siege engines to go through. Due to situation involving lot of magic, Raven might get opportunity to save US from the invaders from other dimensions.

2 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:
2 hours ago, Scotty said:

The fact that Magic sent Disco Wizard to warn Grace about Pandora and a possible system change shows that it sees they have the potential to solve the problem, whether it's got others in on it is unknown but at the very least magic does seem to trust the main eight.

I hope so. I'd hate to think that magic is only amusing itself by giving teenagers an impossible task.

The flair of dramatic suggest they DO have some chance, but not big.

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16 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Interesting that we are talking about UNIVERSES. Like, the immortal was talking about other half of planet, but Andrea talks about universes. That can mean that even if Pandora blocks all drains on Earth, the Moperville anomally will just spread until it reaches the drains on Mars and Venus, and the total amount of magic will STILL be big enough for Uryuom planet to not be affected.

Of course, the other half of Earth would become low-magic area, with drains working but no magic returning, but it will still not be completely without magic because the magic will came from rest of universe.

I'm pretty sure that Andrea asked about other universes because if Nanase and Elliot knew about them, they'd likely understand what she was talking about how there's another half of the world, Tara had already stated earlier that she wasn't from another universe's version of Earth, just the other half of the Earth in the EGS main universe.

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It is growing ever more apparent that this other side of the world has far greater knowledge of the workings of Magic than this side. Given that Tedd's dad is a VIP of the paranormal and was unaware there even was an energy clog before Tedd hinted at it to him. Though, my previous theory of the split being due to a difference in desire does need amending due to the same magic existing in both worlds.

So, if magic goes from one world to the other regularly; and one world is clearly much more magical while the other is more mundane, I wonder if the main cast's side of the universe is where magic goes to "get a break" from being used so heavily, which would be ruined if magic went mainstream. 

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