STORY: Friday March 18, 2016

[partner555 170]

10 minutes ago, Changer said:

It is growing ever more apparent that this other side of the world has far greater knowledge of the workings of Magic than this side. Given that Tedd's dad is a VIP of the paranormal and was unaware there even was an energy clog before Tedd hinted at it to him. Though, my previous theory of the split being due to a difference in desire does need amending due to the same magic existing in both worlds.

So, if magic goes from one world to the other regularly; and one world is clearly much more magical while the other is more mundane, I wonder if the main cast's side of the universe is where magic goes to "get a break" from being used so heavily, which would be ruined if magic went mainstream. 

Actually, I think it is comparable to the water cycle. Water from the ocean evaporates, forms clouds, which then rains. Rivers form, and it all flows back into the ocean. It's not a perfect analogy, since magic is used at every stage, but you get the idea.

[Wildcat 37]

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

5 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:

Not a bad theory. However, does magic really trust eight teenagers to be able to solve the problem or is it secretly recruiting other people for the job as well?

I always though all those anime where several teenagers are only chance of Earth are stupid. If I will be doing the recruiting, I wouldn't stop before one hundred.

Well, Disco Wizard did think that Magic wasn't terribly invested in them succeeding, and that it might only be recruiting them to fill some quota or rule. 

[RainbowWizard 35]

Dang I was kind of close with my unspoken 'like a baloon filled with magic but pinched off in the middle' theory.

 

Dice is weird though. Can't imagine how that'd work... Maybe multiple sides represent parts of the world? So the Griffin-world, let's call it Avalon for simplicity, get the even sides, and Earth gets the odd sides?

And which side it lands on matters in how much magic enters the world and where it enters...

But that would make them seem more seperate. I don't get it that well.

Plus, we know for reasonably certain that interdimensional transfers are possible (though likely difficult) from realities beyond this binary coin metaphor...

 

Okay new metaphor to help me understand what with my name. It's like a rainbow, projected by a water droplet. Each world is a band of colour. However, it's a spectrum, and their colour-ness, their magic, their mojo, bleeds into the nearest bands, and transmissions can be transferred over but it takes energy and effort.

 

What's happened in EGS is someone has been trying to separate the bands of colour into individual bands so that magic stays in its band and then makes that colour more vibrant.

The problem is that this would make all universes part of the same spectrum.

 

Maybe non-connected universes are when there's a double rainbow, oh my gosh, what does it mean?

 

Need data. More data. Also need to stop being rainbow-magic biased. My bad.

[showler 14]

Kinda skimming through, but I wonder if the "drain" to the other world is also the way back for the Griffins.  If so, and the clog is what is preventing Andrea from getting back, then the Griffins might be around for a while.

[Scotty 1,061]

Nah, I would imagine that trying to go through a point where magic is flowing would cause a fair bit of issue, like the concentration of magic going through that point interfering with the spell or causing potentially harmful side effects to the traveler, so magic users would need to create the portals elsewhere. That's not saying they can't be connected, like the area around a point of magic flow could have spots where the barrier between the halves of the world is thin enough for a portal to be created, but those portals wouldn't be able to channel magic through or else the griffins could have just got some sufficiently powerful mages to create a large enough portal to counter the clog.

[showler 14]

That's making a lot of assumptions about both how the magic flows and how portals work.

[Don Edwards 548]

4 hours ago, showler said:

Kinda skimming through, but I wonder if the "drain" to the other world is also the way back for the Griffins.  If so, and the clog is what is preventing Andrea from getting back, then the Griffins might be around for a while.

I doubt it. The preferred way to get from the top of a waterfall to the bottom is not by riding in a canoe.

[Wildcat 37]

4 hours ago, showler said:

Kinda skimming through, but I wonder if the "drain" to the other world is also the way back for the Griffins.  If so, and the clog is what is preventing Andrea from getting back, then the Griffins might be around for a while.

Andrea came to the EGS side specifically to investigate the clog, meaning it was there before she came over, And Tara came even later. As such it can't be blocking the path or portal they used. They might be using the nearest "drain" but it doesn't seem likely to me.

[showler 14]

Magic flows this way through one location, that way through another.

If they are the methods of travelling between worlds, then the one coming this way would still be functional, unaffected by the clog.  The one going that way on the other hand...

edit: eh, never mind.  The portals they use to travel back and forth are two way, not one way so they can't be the same as the flow points.

Too bad, it would have been a good excuse for them to stick around.

[Scotty 1,061]

1 hour ago, showler said:

That's making a lot of assumptions about both how the magic flows and how portals work.

Of course it's making assumptions. That's just my guess at how they would work. Also Tara said that the place that her and Andrea crossed over was clear, she had been there numerous times to check, if that was where the clog was, she'd likely know and say so, and I would imagine they would say if it's where magic comes into that half.

[Don Edwards 548]

Also, if Tara was not expecting Andrea to go back home by this other route (i.e. not the clog) there would have been no point in going there many times to see if she was there.

[Hunendora 8]

18 hours ago, Changer said:

It is growing ever more apparent that this other side of the world has far greater knowledge of the workings of Magic than this side. Given that Tedd's dad is a VIP of the paranormal and was unaware there even was an energy clog before Tedd hinted at it to him. *snip*

This also why I think Tedd's magical "impairment" isn't an impairment. Tedd accesses and uses magic differently, but since it isn't in the PTB's documentation, it is therefor bad/wrong. The experts on this side don't understand magic quite as well as they think they do.

Though I'm sure somewhere there is a group/think tank doing basic research into magic, a High Energy Magic Research Lab or some such.

[Scotty 1,061]

That conversation Tedd had with his dad about the high energy levels in Moperville, Edward was pretty shocked about it saying it was unprecedented and the whole whales subject was kinda thrown out the window. Maybe Tedd should have pressed the issue more, even if he couldn't duplicate the conditions of when he first made contact, considering Tedd was right about the buildup, Edward should believe him about the whales. As for whether anyone else has this kind of knowledge or even the level of knowledge that the griffins possess about magic, it may seem like what the griffins know is beyond what Edward knows, though not entirely sure. Edward certainly doesn't seem to know that Moperville is a nexus point where magic flows into an unseen half of the world or else he would have concluded that the buildup was because something was preventing it from flowing through.

[showler 14]

"Hey Dad, you have to believe me now about the whales, a griffin magical scientist confirmed it."

[Scotty 1,061]

Considering there would be multiple witnesses (that's including those at the mall that saw Tara) saying there were magical griffins. Edward would certainly have a hard time not believing him.

[Qwertystop 1]

One thing keeps coming to mind - the metaphor breaks down very quickly, as I read it. If you plug a drain in a tank with more than one drain, you won't end up with a portion of the water flowing towards the drain and building up - either the total outflow will decrease leading to a generally higher but still-even water level, or the other drains will drain faster, depending on whether the water is being forced out by any pressure in addition to gravity.

 

Or am I missing something?

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

On March 19, 2016 at 5:46 PM, Scotty said:

That's what I'm saying, the next nearest drain could be in Dallas for all we know, the amount of magic energy needed to build up to reach that would be enormous. If there is a closer drain, like Detroit, then the energy in the region will build up to that point then the Detroit drain would pick up the rest and the buildup would end, unless of course Pandora clogs the next drain.

You're picturing *much* bigger areas than I was!  I figured the high-magic zone didn't extend beyond Moperville yet, maybe not even much more than the center of town, or at most it was only just starting to extend beyond the boundaries.

If Moperville is similar enough to Naperville, then there are other suburbs surrounding it and the affected area will continue to include more and more people.  If, on the other hand, Moperville is more like a downstate town, like Champaign, then it will expand to include the whole city but beyond that it will cover low-population areas.

[Don Edwards 548]

6 hours ago, Qwertystop said:

One thing keeps coming to mind - the metaphor breaks down very quickly, as I read it. If you plug a drain in a tank with more than one drain, you won't end up with a portion of the water flowing towards the drain and building up - either the total outflow will decrease leading to a generally higher but still-even water level, or the other drains will drain faster, depending on whether the water is being forced out by any pressure in addition to gravity.

 

Or am I missing something?

You're assuming that the magical terrain is flat - like the bottom of a sink or washtub.

If there are hills and valleys, and the drain in one valley is clogged, the magic will accumulate in that valley until it reaches a low spot in the surrounding hills and can run into the next valley. (Or the pressure gets high enough to blow the clog out.)

Of course, we have no idea what these hills and valleys actually are... or even if this is a decent metaphor.

[Scotty 1,061]

I get the feeling we're dealing with ley lines though, and magic flows along a network, the converging points along this network would be where magic enters and exits the halves of the world. Though I only think it's ley lines because when I looked it up, I saw references to Dresden Files and we know Dan is a fan of those books.

[hkmaly 490]

On 03/20/2016 at 2:59 AM, Scotty said:

I'm pretty sure that Andrea asked about other universes because if Nanase and Elliot knew about them, they'd likely understand what she was talking about how there's another half of the world, Tara had already stated earlier that she wasn't from another universe's version of Earth, just the other half of the Earth in the EGS main universe.

I was specifically talking about "imagine each UNIVERSE as a coin" ... the "halves" are of whole universe, not just Earth.

On 03/20/2016 at 3:42 AM, Changer said:

It is growing ever more apparent that this other side of the world has far greater knowledge of the workings of Magic than this side. Given that Tedd's dad is a VIP of the paranormal and was unaware there even was an energy clog before Tedd hinted at it to him.

Well ... with all the secrecy, we can't rule out that this knowledge is just not his need to know ... but yes, it seems that the secrecy resulted in less research being done in magic, which shouldn't surprise.

On 03/20/2016 at 4:44 AM, Wildcat said:

On 03/20/2016 at 2:25 AM, hkmaly said:

I always though all those anime where several teenagers are only chance of Earth are stupid. If I will be doing the recruiting, I wouldn't stop before one hundred.

Well, Disco Wizard did think that Magic wasn't terribly invested in them succeeding, and that it might only be recruiting them to fill some quota or rule. 

In most of those anime the ones doing the recruiting WERE invested in succeeding.

On 03/20/2016 at 8:31 AM, RainbowWizard said:

Dice is weird though. Can't imagine how that'd work..

Easy. Coin has two sides. Dices have multiple sides. Each side being, for "practical purposes" as Tara said, separate.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

Considering there would be multiple witnesses (that's including those at the mall that saw Tara) saying there were magical griffins. Edward would certainly have a hard time not believing him.

Witnesses AND youtube videos. Also, unlike the whales, he MAY be already aware that griffins exists, possibly based on information about their previous visit(s) hundreds years ago.

2 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

9 hours ago, Qwertystop said:

One thing keeps coming to mind - the metaphor breaks down very quickly, as I read it. If you plug a drain in a tank with more than one drain, you won't end up with a portion of the water flowing towards the drain and building up - either the total outflow will decrease leading to a generally higher but still-even water level, or the other drains will drain faster, depending on whether the water is being forced out by any pressure in addition to gravity.

 

Or am I missing something?

You're assuming that the magical terrain is flat - like the bottom of a sink or washtub.

If there are hills and valleys, and the drain in one valley is clogged, the magic will accumulate in that valley until it reaches a low spot in the surrounding hills and can run into the next valley. (Or the pressure gets high enough to blow the clog out.)

Of course, we have no idea what these hills and valleys actually are... or even if this is a decent metaphor.

Not sure what would those hills be either, but it's either that or surface tension. I mean, even on absolutely flat "terrain", small amount of water will form drops (unlike liquid helium, which tries to cover as much as possible). If you magnify the effect (and don't think too much about how drains would work with that big surface tension), you can see a big drop forming around Moperville which will eventually reach other drains without any hills required.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

2 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

You're assuming that the magical terrain is flat - like the bottom of a sink or washtub.

If there are hills and valleys, and the drain in one valley is clogged, the magic will accumulate in that valley until it reaches a low spot in the surrounding hills and can run into the next valley. (Or the pressure gets high enough to blow the clog out.)

Of course, we have no idea what these hills and valleys actually are... or even if this is a decent metaphor.

 

6 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I get the feeling we're dealing with ley lines though, and magic flows along a network, the converging points along this network would be where magic enters and exits the halves of the world. Though I only think it's ley lines because when I looked it up, I saw references to Dresden Files and we know Dan is a fan of those books.

I have an image in my head involving a family of magical beavers who built a darn on the "wrong" spot.  This is causing flooding on one side and a drought on the other.  Of course, it is possible that Pandora (or some other entity) "guided" the beavers to the "wrong" spot.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

20 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

 

I have an image in my head involving a family of magical beavers who built a darn on the "wrong" spot.  This is causing flooding on one side and a drought on the other.  Of course, it is possible that Pandora (or some other entity) "guided" the beavers to the "wrong" spot.

Why not. We already have magic-eating whales, magic-damming beavers is not that large a stretch.

[Scotty 1,061]

3 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

23 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

 

I have an image in my head involving a family of magical beavers who built a darn on the "wrong" spot.  This is causing flooding on one side and a drought on the other.  Of course, it is possible that Pandora (or some other entity) "guided" the beavers to the "wrong" spot.

Why not. We already have magic-eating whales, magic-damming beavers is not that large a stretch.

Oh no you don't, you ain't blaming this on us Canadians.

 

 

[The Old Hack 2,448]

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Oh no you don't, you ain't blaming this on us Canadians.

Sure I am. Moperville is close to the Canadian border, isn't it? You aren't shifting this one to the Mexicans, Canuck.

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

10 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Sure I am. Moperville is close to the Canadian border, isn't it? You aren't shifting this one to the Mexicans, Canuck.

Depends on your definition of "close".  If we're assuming Moperville is about where Naperville is, you'd still have to go northwest around Lake Michigan and north through Wisconsin and Minnesota, or south around Lake Michigan, then east through Indiana and then north or east through Michigan.  I suppose you could also go south then east through Indiana, then continue east through Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New York to get to Niagara Falls.  Either way, it's quite a trip!

 

Edit to add: Checked the mapping sites, going east to Detroit and then south into Canada seems to be the shortest route, at around five and a half to six-and-change hours, which is less than I thought.  The same site says it's about five hours from Amsterdam to Paris.  If you don't take that shortcut, and go north the way most people think of going to Canada, it's more like nine to eleven hours, equivalent to going from the Netherlands to Italy.