• Announcements

    • Robin

      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Drasvin

Magic: The Gathering colors of the cast

21 posts in this topic

Recently, I got to wondering what Colors of Magic the cast of EGS would be (I wonder about characters in other settings at times as well, but this is an EGS forum, and there's plenty of characters to ponder in this webcomic). I had figured that such a topic would already exist, due to the Squirrel Prophet arc (and I guess might have on the old server) but a search turned up nothing. For reference,here are a series of articles about the five colors: WhiteBlue, BlackRedGreen and a list of articles including those five and a bunch of articles about color combinations here. I'm mostly looking at personality and philosophy of the characters, as abilities(mechanics) would bring in a splash of blue for a good portion of the cast due to transformation. Also, any whole and complete person is going to have some degree of all five Colors. A person's Color identity is which Color, or combination of Colors, most represents the person's personality and philosophy. That said, here's my thoughts on the colors of the Main Eight:

Elliot: White: Elliot is loyal, honest, and helping to a fault. Even to the point of suppressing his own wants and desires in an attempt to make others happy.

Ellen: Red/Black:In her drive to differentiate herself from Elliot, Ellen embraced her impulses and emotional drive. She also heavily values her individuality. She likely still has a good splash of white to her, as she retains some of Elliot's core values, like morality and justice, just not as strong as they are in Elliot. It's also a nice bit of coincidental symbolism that she fits into the two colors opposite of white.

Tedd: Blue/Red: Tedd is a man of science and is extremely passionate and driven towards progressing science. He's also self identified as a mad scientist before, and Red/Blue is traditionally the colors of mad science, as the pull of reason and irrationality can make it appear, or even be, insane to someone outside of that color combo.

Grace: Green/White: Grace is values all life and community, traits shared by green and white. She prefers peaceful means whenever possible, something both white and green like, though white likes more as Green has a feral, instinctual side to it. And Grace generally embraces the natural side of things (see her views on nudity). She's also very adaptable, whereas white is very inflexible. She possibly also has a splash of blue to her, as she really enjoys doing math and science, especially with Tedd.

Sarah: Red: Sarah is emotionally driven, passionate, and romantic and she is an artist. While art as an in-setting concept doesn't show up much in the card game, due to the card game focusing around battle and warfare, it is a significant part of red, especially passionate art where the artist pours their heart and soul into the work. I'm not sure she would fall under pure red, but I'm having trouble pinning down what else she could be (Maybe Black? Sarah wants personal power, and black is all about making the self more powerful)

Nanase: White/Red: Nanase highly values honesty, truth, and community, but she is also very passionate and emotionally driven. A few times, I've gotten the feeling that she fits Red's philosophy of "feel, don't think." She acts on what she feels is right without considering the consequences of her actions, or dismissing the potential consequences as irrelevant in face of the values she's seeking. (It was realizing how, from my point of view at least, Nanase fits Red that got me thinking about this topic, along with seeing some fan-made M:tG cards of the characters)

Justin: White: Justin is one of the more level-headed members of the main cast. More often than not, he's a voice of reason that maintains order (as long as his own major problems aren't in consideration). I'm tempted to add red. He's certainly a passionate individual, though I'm not sure how much his passions drive his actions outside of a couple key issues.

Susan: Blue: While I think Nanase fits Red's ideal of "Feel, don't think," Susan often does her best to fit Blue's ideal of "Think, don't feel." She thinks through her choices, makes decisions as logically as she can, and disdains irrational and impulsive courses of action.

I would love to hear other people's thoughts on this, along with possible Color(s) of the other characters in the setting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Ellen: Red/Black:In her drive to differentiate herself from Elliot, Ellen embraced her impulses and emotional drive. She also heavily values her individuality. She likely still has a good splash of white to her, as she retains some of Elliot's core values, like morality and justice, just not as strong as they are in Elliot. It's also a nice bit of coincidental symbolism that she fits into the two colors opposite of white.

Ellen is NOT Rakdos...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sjmcc13 said:

Ellen is NOT Rakdos...

While Ellen doesn't have the absolute depravity associated with the Rakdos guild, she does show strong traits in the component Colors. Though I would like to hear what Colors you think she would fit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sjmcc13 said:

Ellen is NOT Rakdos...

lol Ravnican

 

I think Sarah would take a splash of white as while she's interested in gaining power, it wasn't so much for personal gain as it was to balance her with the rest of the main cast, as she was the only one without magic (or magitech in Tedd's case) until she got her spell from Pandora.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

While Ellen doesn't have the absolute depravity associated with the Rakdos guild, she does show strong traits in the component Colors. Though I would like to hear what Colors you think she would fit.

She does not show the selfishness associated with black.  Name 1 iconic black card she has shown a resemblance to, 1.

Ellen definitely has form trickery in her that means she should have at least some blue. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Sjmcc13 said:

She does not show the selfishness associated with black.  Name 1 iconic black card she has shown a resemblance to, 1.

Ellen definitely has form trickery in her that means she should have at least some blue. 

I wasn't using the cards as a guide. I was using the articles from Mark Rosewater that I linked in the first post. And to quote the Black article, "For example, black is the color that stresses the importance of the individual." A big part of Ellen's identity has been about defining who she is as an individual, especially in defining how she is not Elliot. Arguably black might be added to others as competitiveness (the desire to prove oneself better than others) is also a black trait, though that would depend on whether or not said competitiveness is a core driver to the character's actions.

I could potentially see blue as part of Ellen. She can be a bit of a trickster.

30 minutes ago, Yzjdriel said:

I think Sarah would take a splash of white as while she's interested in gaining power, it wasn't so much for personal gain as it was to balance her with the rest of the main cast, as she was the only one without magic (or magitech in Tedd's case) until she got her spell from Pandora.

I guess that's a possibility. Though I'm not sure if she just wants to be on-par or to exceed her friends. Her wizard Sarah dream certainly had her extremely powerful (then again it was a fanciful dream). I guess it will depend on how far she pushes herself once her training with Box is complete.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All archetypal models are necessarily reductive, so the intent is to capture the broad strokes. If we were building decks around the eight, most of them would have three if not four colours, but distilling down their primary one or two aspects for a single card is a more interesting challenge.

I think the cast in general is lacking in Black - the only two living human characters I can think of who have any Black are Diane (with Blue) and Ellen (with Red) - the former because of her longstanding focus upon her own self interest, and the latter due to her individualistic hedonism. Neither would be wholly Black, of course. Green is also uncommon, as it entails a philosophical acquiescence to natural law and is thus less agentive than the other colours; you can make a case for Grace (with White), Justin (with Blue) or perhaps Catalina (with Red). The other three colours are both easier to apply to the individual as defined and more common in the cast, with Red and Blue the most common.

Justin is where our categorizations diverge the most. I feel he is best described as Green and Blue. In terms of Green, Justin accepts people and circumstances as they are, and is always looking to their further development; recall Nanase's sexuality, his experience at the game store, his own contemplation of zen philosophies, and even his whole friendship with Susan. On the other side, his self-expression is always muted, tempered by consideration and moderate introversion, which echoes how Susan approaches her own life. Like Susan, our Blue paragon, Justin keeps his mind in the forefront and is always analyzing, often helpful as a result.

Drasvin likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Drasvin said:

I wasn't using the cards as a guide. I was using the articles from Mark Rosewater that I linked in the first post. And to quote the Black article, "For example, black is the color that stresses the importance of the individual." A big part of Ellen's identity has been about defining who she is as an individual, especially in defining how she is not Elliot. Arguably black might be added to others as competitiveness (the desire to prove oneself better than others) is also a black trait, though that would depend on whether or not said competitiveness is a core driver to the character's actions.

I could potentially see blue as part of Ellen. She can be a bit of a trickster.

Did you even read that article, or did you just skim it for a keyword that you could try sum up a complex meaning in to one word?????

Black being about the individual means it a me first mentality, which Ellen does NOT have. 

Black is about selfishness and greed. It is the most self-centered of the colors. 

Red also has strong individuality in its flavour. 

I have been playing MtG since just before Homelands was released, I have read enough of the lore to understand that each color is complex and can not be summed up in 1 word,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Drasvin said:

Her wizard Sarah dream certainly had her extremely powerful (then again it was a fanciful dream)

I'd say the dream she had was an extension of the previous dream about being able to defend herself and other from bad guys, considering both dreams had the theme of Hedge causing trouble, the experience of Hedge taking Elliot still bothers her despite it turning out ok.  I don't think it is a matter of Sarah wanting to be powerful, but more a matter of Sarah not wanting to be powerless if she were to find herself in a situation like that again.

Yzjdriel likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sjmcc13 said:
5 hours ago, Drasvin said:

I wasn't using the cards as a guide. I was using the articles from Mark Rosewater that I linked in the first post. And to quote the Black article, "For example, black is the color that stresses the importance of the individual." A big part of Ellen's identity has been about defining who she is as an individual, especially in defining how she is not Elliot. Arguably black might be added to others as competitiveness (the desire to prove oneself better than others) is also a black trait, though that would depend on whether or not said competitiveness is a core driver to the character's actions.

I could potentially see blue as part of Ellen. She can be a bit of a trickster.

Did you even read that article, or did you just skim it for a keyword that you could try sum up a complex meaning in to one word?????

Black being about the individual means it a me first mentality, which Ellen does NOT have. 

Black is about selfishness and greed. It is the most self-centered of the colors. 

Red also has strong individuality in its flavour. 

I have been playing MtG since just before Homelands was released, I have read enough of the lore to understand that each color is complex and can not be summed up in 1 word,

I did read the article and I understand that the colors are complex philosophies. Black represents selfishness and greed, but it also represents more than that. To quote Mark Rosewater's article again, "As I’ve explained in each segment, a color’s philosophy revolves around how that color sees the world. Black’s view of the world is quite self-centered. In essence, black defines the world by how it affects him or her. Thus, to black, each individual has their own purpose in life: making their life as good as it can be." Does this mean that black tends towards selfishness and greed? Yes, but that isn't everything in the color, especially when combining with other colors. Aspects get diluted or tempered (though some aspects get amplified when combining colors)

Red's individuality comes from it's focus on emotions and freedom. Emotions are often a very personal thing, but they can also be shared, as can be seen with lovers, or a massive rock concert. And Red wants freedom for everyone to be able to choose what they want. Red doesn't care about standing out from the crowd and defining the self as much as letting everyone follow their passions.

I would agree that Ellen is much more strongly Red than Black, but I don't think that Red's expression of individuality covers the deliberate effort she took to define herself as her own person.

3 hours ago, banneret said:

I think the cast in general is lacking in Black - the only two living human characters I can think of who have any Black are Diane (with Blue) and Ellen (with Red) - the former because of her longstanding focus upon her own self interest, and the latter due to her individualistic hedonism

I think Noah has, or at least had, a strong Black streak to him, with his desire for power at all costs. He certainly wouldn't be pure Black. Maybe Black/White (Desire power to set things right)?

Edited by Drasvin
I forgot to respond to someone I wanted to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sjmcc13 said:

Did you even read that article, or did you just skim it for a keyword that you could try sum up a complex meaning in to one word?????

The Moderator: Please. It is possible to disagree without being rude. Asking assumptive questions of this kind is not good form and violates the courtesy rules.

~tOH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assuming we can avoid more red text, this could be a question on the EGS which character are you quiz, that we kind of stalled on devising questions for a while back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Drachefly said:

Assuming we can avoid more red text,

The Moderator: That is supremely simple. Read the courtesy rules. Adhere to them to the best of your ability. Post in good faith and with no intent to injure and harm. Assume good faith if at all possible. And you will have very, very little chance of compelling me to post, which is what I prefer. I would rather do as little as possible.

~tOH.

HarJIT and Pharaoh RutinTutin like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

I would rather do as little as possible.

Can I get that printed up on T-shirts, hats, motivational posters, toys, stationary, bumper stickers, business cards, novelties and notions?

I'd do it myself, but it seems like too much effort.

Scotty, Yzjdriel and The Old Hack like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

The Moderator: That is supremely simple. ...

I agree - it was more of a tossoff 'Can we behave? I'd like to get something out of this'.

SO, for each character in the quiz we'd need a score for each color (positive for a good match, 0 for whatever, negative for a poor match). In format W,G,R,K,U, only with scores instead of letters and no colors, from -9 to +9... Note, each character should have overall the same ability to pull ahead, but they do not need to have the same totals. Not all characters need to have a knockout YES answer in any given question.

Elliot: 9,0,-7,-9,0

Ellen: 2,2,2,2,-7

Tedd: -2,2,2,0,9

Grace: 7,7,-3,-9,0

Sarah: -3,2,5,3,0

Nanase: 2,2,3,-4,2

Justin: 5,-4,0,-3,6

Susan: 3,-5,-5,-5,9

How does that look? Keep in mind we can add some characters who might fit black a bit better...

The Old Hack likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/13/2016 at 1:44 PM, Drachefly said:

Assuming we can avoid more red text, this could be a question on the EGS which character are you quiz, that we kind of stalled on devising questions for a while back.

An interesting idea, though it does run into the problem of needing a personality quiz to answer a question for a personality quiz, as the colors of Magic cover a broad range of personalities and philosophies.

 

7 hours ago, Drachefly said:

In format W,G,R,K,U,

Tiny little nitpick, but black is usually abbreviated as B. Not really important, and using K avoids potentially confusing people not familiar with Magic's abbreviations, but it might cause a knee-jerk reaction in some Magic players.

7 hours ago, Drachefly said:

Elliot: 9,0,-7,-9,0

Ellen: 2,2,2,2,-7

Tedd: -2,2,2,0,9

Grace: 7,7,-3,-9,0

Sarah: -3,2,5,3,0

Nanase: 2,2,3,-4,2

Justin: 5,-4,0,-3,6

Susan: 3,-5,-5,-5,9

For the most part looks alright, though I'm mostly going of general, relative values in my assesment. Some of it possibly good use some tweaking. For one, I think Ellen's Red score should be 1-3 points higher. She's definitely had instances of action based on emotional impluse (like when she shot a transformation beam at Not-Tengu)

7 hours ago, Drachefly said:

Keep in mind we can add some characters who might fit black a bit better...

Noah would be a good fit for black. "If something is a foolish shortcut to power, I have been talked out of it." While there is overlap, or "bleed," between the colors, Power at All Costs is very much exclusive to black.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure, that sounds good. I'm not sure how easy a time we'd have with some questions on Noah, but sure! Noah doesn't seem very green or red, nor very blue. Maybe White/Black...

4,-2,-4,7,0?

BTW, mentioning Power At All Costs and outside Black (even in the negative) does remind me of some sacrificial red cards like Orcish Lumberjack, which sacrifices forests for 3 red or green mana.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Noah would be a good fit for black. "If something is a foolish shortcut to power, I have been talked out of it." While there is overlap, or "bleed," between the colors, Power at All Costs is very much exclusive to black.

What gets me though, is Noah doesn't think that way anymore, the "power at all costs" bit only really applied to Noah's desire to avenge his parent's deaths, that went away when he found out Grace had killed Damien.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/15/2016 at 5:27 PM, Scotty said:

What gets me though, is Noah doesn't think that way anymore, the "power at all costs" bit only really applied to Noah's desire to avenge his parent's deaths, that went away when he found out Grace had killed Damien.

True, though then that leads into questions about his nature and especially the philosophical question of whether a person can change their base nature (For the record, I believe a person's base nature can change, but not easily)

Noah wouldn't be pure black, even when he was searching for any power he could get. He wanted power at all costs, but he didn't want power for power's sake or some other self-focused reason. He wanted the power either for justice(white) or for vengenful rage(red). Once the reason for power has been fulfilled, the drive to aquire it diminishes, though the mindset that allowed the drive doesn't necessarily go with it. In short, once Damien died, Noah no longer had a reason to recklessly persue power, but that doesn't necessarily mean he wouldn't be tempted to reckless avenues of power if another reason that demands he be more powerful comes up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0