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Story Monday December 5, 2016

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7 hours ago, hkmaly said:

While technically still breaking and entering, going in some buildings through wall wouldn't make his presence known because invisible and intangible due to different plane. I think this option present opportunities to get answers faster than Susan and Diane.

I strongly suspect that immortals, as group, don't give two figs about human laws.

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1 hour ago, mlooney said:

I strongly suspect that immortals, as group, don't give two figs about human laws.

To be honest, it would not make sense if they did. Apart from them not being human, they do not have any legal existence. They enjoy no protection nor benefits from laws and do not need them, either. The whole point of a system of laws is to regulate a society and they are not in any way part of our societies.

What they do have is their own 'laws', as set out and ranted about by Voltaire. And just like different human societies have different laws, so do immortals -- witness the Ancients from the other half of the world. Clearly, these laws have NOT been made with human interests in mind but rather to establish a baseline of morals/ethics within their own society.

Given how independent immortals seem, I am not even sure why they have these rules. Possibly rogue immortals are in a position to damage immortals as a whole somehow. It is the only reason I can see for them having laws at all.

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Just now, The Old Hack said:

To be honest, it would not make sense if they did. Apart from them not being human, they do not have any legal existence. They enjoy no protection nor benefits from laws and do not need them, either. The whole point of a system of laws is to regulate a society and they are not in any way part of our societies.

What they do have is their own 'laws', as set out and ranted about by Voltaire. And just like different human societies have different laws, so do immortals -- witness the Ancients from the other half of the world. Clearly, these laws have NOT been made with human interests in mind but rather to establish a baseline of morals/ethics within their own society.

Given how independent immortals seem, I am not even sure why they have these rules. Possibly rogue immortals are in a position to damage immortals as a whole somehow. It is the only reason I can see for them having laws at all.

It could be possible that at one time Immortals were running wild and causing all kinds of chaos, then after a few magic system changes, found it was not fun to have to start over all the time and thus the "only guide and empower" rule was made to limit interaction and reduce the chance of causing another system change, the suggested "reset at 200 years" guideline probably came later when Immortals got bored in their old age and went insane because the rules wouldn't let them have fun.

Maybe that's why Magic doesn't want to be mainstream on this half, because it doesn't trust Immortals and humans to be responsible with it. Maybe in the other half, the Ancients made an agreement the allowed for Magic to remain commonplace, I wonder if the fact that Ancients can't lie but Immortals can would have anything to do with it. Maybe Ancients vowed to not let magic get out of control, but Immortals didn't make any vows about it?

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Jerry can sense a very real connection between Susan and Diane. So close it leads him to believe they are sisters. What if he is sensing something so similar as to be almost identical between them that he is getting confused. Would be easy for him to be muddled up in what he feels seeing as he has not long reset himself.

Could Diane be Susan? To be exact, Susan from another dimension? Maybe her parents crossed realities, gave birth to Diane and then something happened to them, or they left her there in hopes of a better life for her?

 

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T    2
1 hour ago, Skig said:

Jerry can sense a very real connection between Susan and Diane. So close it leads him to believe they are sisters. What if he is sensing something so similar as to be almost identical between them that he is getting confused. Would be easy for him to be muddled up in what he feels seeing as he has not long reset himself.

Could Diane be Susan? To be exact, Susan from another dimension? Maybe her parents crossed realities, gave birth to Diane and then something happened to them, or they left her there in hopes of a better life for her?

 

That is a good question. To be clear, Jerry does not seem to be muddled up or confused, but he did reach a possibly inaccurate conclusion based on incomplete information. That's probably a little unusual among immortals, honestly.

Too soon to have any faith in an alternate universe theory, in my opinion.

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2 hours ago, T said:

That is a good question. To be clear, Jerry does not seem to be muddled up or confused, but he did reach a possibly inaccurate conclusion based on incomplete information. That's probably a little unusual among immortals, honestly.

Too soon to have any faith in an alternate universe theory, in my opinion.

Still, it is a viable hypothesis. Admittedly she was born here according to the record, but there is something unexplained going on. I'm going to mark it down as at least 'conceivable.'

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34 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

Still, it is a viable hypothesis. Admittedly she was born here according to the record, but there is something unexplained going on. I'm going to mark it down as at least 'conceivable.'

I see what you did there...

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9 hours ago, Scotty said:

It could be possible that at one time Immortals were running wild and causing all kinds of chaos, then after a few magic system changes, found it was not fun to have to start over all the time and thus the "only guide and empower" rule was made to limit interaction and reduce the chance of causing another system change, the suggested "reset at 200 years" guideline probably came later when Immortals got bored in their old age and went insane because the rules wouldn't let them have fun.

Multiple magic resets are just one possible example of how one immortal can wreak havoc with other Immortals "projects". The immortal laws seem as a way to regulate access to shared resource all immortals want to play with, namely humans.

I also don't think it's the rules which caused them to be bored in old age. More likely, they get more bored and more insane even before and the destruction their more and more complicated attempts to have fun caused was one of reasons why the laws were adapted, as a way to limit the damage. Now, due to laws, they either find out there is no way to get fun within rules themselves and reset, or they don't realize it and get reset by others.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

Maybe that's why Magic doesn't want to be mainstream on this half, because it doesn't trust Immortals and humans to be responsible with it. Maybe in the other half, the Ancients made an agreement the allowed for Magic to remain commonplace, I wonder if the fact that Ancients can't lie but Immortals can would have anything to do with it. Maybe Ancients vowed to not let magic get out of control, but Immortals didn't make any vows about it?

Magic doesn't want to be mainstream because it's a jerk and butt face. We have it from good source. :)

There may be some connection between Ancients agreement and Magic being public, but I don't think it's as simple. More likely, there are multiple reasons why the situation is different and I wouldn't rule out "bad" reasons - magic's objectives may not necessary be something we would agree with, it may even be something like "with magic public, there wouldn't be enough suffering". (It seems more likely there will be more suffering, but who knows.)

39 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:
2 hours ago, T said:

That is a good question. To be clear, Jerry does not seem to be muddled up or confused, but he did reach a possibly inaccurate conclusion based on incomplete information. That's probably a little unusual among immortals, honestly.

Too soon to have any faith in an alternate universe theory, in my opinion.

Still, it is a viable hypothesis. Admittedly she was born here according to the record, but there is something unexplained going on. I'm going to mark it down as at least 'conceivable.'

SUSAN was born here. It's possible that while Susan is local, Diane is her alternate from other dimension. And this is not nearly first time I talk about this option.

 

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35 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

SUSAN was born here. It's possible that while Susan is local, Diane is her alternate from other dimension. And this is not nearly first time I talk about this option.

It would involve falsifying records, but that obviously doesn't rule it out.

 

42 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I see what you did there...

Well, I didn't. *scratches head*

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

SUSAN was born here. It's possible that while Susan is local, Diane is her alternate from other dimension. And this is not nearly first time I talk about this option.

Diane could have been conceived in the parent's home dimension, but was born shortly after they arrived in the prime dimension, then something happened to the parents which caused Diane to be orphaned.

Actually hold up, Dan's already taken the whole Will Riker/Thomas Riker plot and given it a magic and gender spin with Elliot and Ellen, will he really go Mirror Universe on us with Susan and Diane?

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2 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Still, it is a viable hypothesis. Admittedly she was born here according to the record, but there is something unexplained going on. I'm going to mark it down as at least 'conceivable.'

 

1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

I see what you did there...

 

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

Well, I didn't. *scratches head*

Do the highlights I added help?  :-)

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2 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Still, it is a viable hypothesis. Admittedly she was born here according to the record

Who has looked at Diane's records so far?  I suppose being adopted but still knowing the exact time of her birth does imply *she* has seen her birth certificate, and it was filled out at the time, not something generated after the fact for a Jane Doe foundling, but another information source isn't impossible for that. 

Maybe she actually knows somebody from her birth family who told her.  Being adopted doesn't necessarily mean she has no contacts, or even no genetic kinship - one of my cousins was formally adopted by his mother's sister.  Though if she was born in another universe that would imply a lot of traffic between them.

 

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11 minutes ago, malloyd said:

Who has looked at Diane's records so far?  I suppose being adopted but still knowing the exact time of her birth does imply *she* has seen her birth certificate, and it was filled out at the time, not something generated after the fact for a Jane Doe foundling, but another information source isn't impossible for that. 

Maybe she actually knows somebody from her birth family who told her.  Being adopted doesn't necessarily mean she has no contacts, or even no genetic kinship - one of my cousins was formally adopted by his mother's sister.  Though if she was born in another universe that would imply a lot of traffic between them.

 

I would imagine that records showing date/time of birth and anything pertaining to Diane herself, any tests or vaccinations, etc, would be easy to get and would likely be required for the adopting parents to have. It would just be anything pertaining to Diane's biological parents that would be kept confidential and would require special circumstances, and probably a court order, to let anyone see them.

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39 minutes ago, Scotty said:
56 minutes ago, malloyd said:

Who has looked at Diane's records so far?  I suppose being adopted but still knowing the exact time of her birth does imply *she* has seen her birth certificate, and it was filled out at the time, not something generated after the fact for a Jane Doe foundling, but another information source isn't impossible for that. 

I would imagine that records showing date/time of birth and anything pertaining to Diane herself, any tests or vaccinations, etc, would be easy to get and would likely be required for the adopting parents to have. It would just be anything pertaining to Diane's biological parents that would be kept confidential and would require special circumstances, and probably a court order, to let anyone see them.

While likely, we are not sure if anyone looked yet. There may be circumstances which would allow all existing records be based on one piece of paper (birth certificate) which came with Diane and noone bothered to double-check it against any local database. I would suppose that background check by DGB would find it suspicious, but normal clerks are unlikely to be that dutiful.

1 hour ago, malloyd said:

Maybe she actually knows somebody from her birth family who told her.  Being adopted doesn't necessarily mean she has no contacts, or even no genetic kinship - one of my cousins was formally adopted by his mother's sister.  Though if she was born in another universe that would imply a lot of traffic between them.

Maybe someone from her birth family told her adoptive parents ... and then disappeared. (Not before their eyes, presumably.) No reason to doubt such information.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Diane could have been conceived in the parent's home dimension, but was born shortly after they arrived in the prime dimension, then something happened to the parents which caused Diane to be orphaned.

If she was conceived in parent's home dimension, her mother arrived in EGS dimension pregnant, then had accident and died in hospital without regaining consciousness, what would happen with the baby? Would be adopted of course. I don't think anyone would even suggest to let the baby die because mother had no or fake (not matching database) ID, and there would be no way to contact any possible other relatives.

2 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

It would involve falsifying records, but that obviously doesn't rule it out.

Or that, obviously.

 

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49 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

If she was conceived in parent's home dimension, her mother arrived in EGS dimension pregnant, then had accident and died in hospital without regaining consciousness, what would happen with the baby? Would be adopted of course. I don't think anyone would even suggest to let the baby die because mother had no or fake (not matching database) ID, and there would be no way to contact any possible other relatives.

One scenario would be Diane's biological mother fleeing her home dimension and was critically wounded in the process, someone in the main dimension found her and rushed her to the hospital where the doctors were able to save the baby but not the mother, if the mother had no ID, she would then be a Jane Doe and the baby would be taken into the care an child services and put up for adoption.

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3 minutes ago, Scotty said:

One scenario would be Diane's biological mother fleeing her home dimension and was critically wounded in the process, someone in the main dimension found her and rushed her to the hospital where the doctors were able to save the baby but not the mother, if the mother had no ID, she would then be a Jane Doe and the baby would be taken into the care an child services and put up for adoption.

In other words, had accident ... or "accident".

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7 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Highlights helped me when I was learning to read.

I know I loved that magazine, but I can't actually recall what was in it.  I do remember the insects in the cartoons along the bottom of the pages in Cricket magazine....

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9 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

I know I loved that magazine, but I can't actually recall what was in it.

Hidden Pictures, What's Wrong, Goofus and Galant, The Timbertoes, The Bear Family...

Since my subscription lapsed, the only place I see Highlights is in the waiting rooms of medical offices.  I guess this means it doesn't also inhabit veterinary offices?

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2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Hidden Pictures, What's Wrong, Goofus and Galant, The Timbertoes, The Bear Family...

Since my subscription lapsed, the only place I see Highlights is in the waiting rooms of medical offices.  I guess this means it doesn't also inhabit veterinary offices?

Well, it's been a while since I owned cats, but my wife's cat doesn't really have all that sophisticated reading habits. It is basically happy with any kind of newspaper or magazine it can curl comfortably up on and go to sleep on.

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3 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Since my subscription lapsed, the only place I see Highlights is in the waiting rooms of medical offices.  I guess this means it doesn't also inhabit veterinary offices?

We don't get it for free like a few other magazines, but I'm tempted to at least find out how much a subscription is.  On the other hand, maybe that would give us too much of a "waiting room" feel, since that seems to be the main place a lot of people see Highlights, and Readers Digest and the like....

We have a little shelf of childrens' books of various target ages, as well as some nice stuffed animals.  Until a couple of months ago, we'd had a plush Clifford dog for years and years, but someone finally seems to have walked off with it.  :-(

40 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

Well, it's been a while since I owned cats, but my wife's cat doesn't really have all that sophisticated reading habits. It is basically happy with any kind of newspaper or magazine it can curl comfortably up on and go to sleep on.

Cats either read through osmosis or more specifically through their butts, depending on which expert you consult.

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18 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

It would involve falsifying records, but that obviously doesn't rule it out.

Well, unless someone had reason to doubt the birth certificate is authentic is has probably not been scrutinized. Mr. Verres said he or the DGB had investigated the friends of Tedd, and he knew that according to records Susan didn't have a twin sister. I doubt that they would bother to investigate other kids born at the same hospital within a day or so unless there had been something indicating that they might be related to the birth of Susan. So as far as we know Diane's birth records hasn't really been investigated making it possible that they may be falsified. They could even be the official records from the parallel universe that's been slipped into the system.  

 

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