NP Monday December 5, 2016

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

25 minutes ago, Trix Marano said:

you have suceeded in converting my theory into a fishing net i.e. full of holes.

I certainly didn't mean to do that!  It may not be the rapid hair growth on its own, but I'm highly suspicious that Akiko is well aware that Nanase can do magic, so if she did realize it was magic, she probably just thought her big sister was especially cool when it happened.  Little kids are good at telling when something is a secret, and Akiko is smart enough to get that Nanase doesn't want Mom to know about her magic.  Only real question is whether Akiko has or will overhear Mom talking with someone else about Nanase's magic, or otherwise find out that Mom knows more than she lets on.

[SilverFanng 0]

I'm looking forward to the group growing larger (if it does).  So many shape shifting shenanigans now! 

[Tom Sewell 268]

3 hours ago, Trix Marano said:

Yes, but there is still Nanase's mother.

Indeed, and Edward probably tells her anything she asks about. I know I would. KRAK-A-THOOM!

Think about that scene again. Cranium is one of the most powerful mages known, and she's intimidated by Nanase's mom. It also implies that Mom knew all about Nanase's "secrets".

The Shive's decision to use Akiko here instead of a one-shot character like Jimmy could be a hook to hold up a lot of plot. One piece of possible plot might concern who's watching Akiko (besides Pandora). You really don't think Akiko would be alone at a huge mall with many exits and who knows how many perverts, do you?

[Tom Sewell 268]

On rapid hair growth: Looking it up, it averages about six inches per year for Asians, which would put Nanase's way more than normal. She'd have to make the muggles think she was wearing wigs.

[Scotty 1,061]

8 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

One piece of possible plot might concern who's watching Akiko (besides Pandora).

That's a good question, is Mama Kistune nearby? Or Papa Kitsune? Or even Nanase? Akiko can't be pulling a Kevin McCallister here.

[ijuin 572]

Eight years old is probably a bit young to be going to the mall alone. I don't know how representative my own experience is, but it wasn't until I was twelve that my parents gave me permission to go about town unattended wherever I wished (as opposed to running specific errands to the supermarket, post office, or wherever).

[Vorlonagent 442]

2 minutes ago, ijuin said:

Eight years old is probably a bit young to be going to the mall alone. I don't know how representative my own experience is, but it wasn't until I was twelve that my parents gave me permission to go about town unattended wherever I wished (as opposed to running specific errands to the supermarket, post office, or wherever).

I'd tend to agree,  It wasn't that long ago that the Kitsunes had Ellen and Nanase babysitting Akikio...

[hkmaly 490]

16 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

We don't know if Akiko knows about real magic at all; she's never been in a scene where Nanase or Ellen used magic, and Nanase has reasons for keeping magic, particularly her magic, secret.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

16 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

As for Akiko not knowing about Nanase's magic, "Hah!" I say.  Trying to keep a secret fron an active, inquisitive, smart little girl?  Lots of luck with that!  We've already seen Akiko makes a habit of listening around doorways and such.

Possible, if she does know, she's resisting the temptation to gush about how cool it is much better than Diane did. That would be very impressive for an 8 year old to do and somehow, I find it hard to believe that Mama Kitsune would have told Akiko about anything and forbid her from telling Nanase.

So you think Mrs. Kitsune is not using Akiko to spy on Nanase's progress with magic?

Akiko might not get full explanation yet, but she definitely knows something is being hidden from her. On the other hand, she's 8: she's USED to stuff being hidden from her.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

I don't think Pandora will touch Akiko, she's Tedd's cousin which means Pandora will likely want to protect her, also, she's 8 years old which if people are right about Helena and Demetrius being reset because they gave magic to underaged teens even with consent, giving magic to a child without consent would be even worse. I don't know if Pandora could rationally justify it enough to consider it not breaking any rules.

I'm definitely not one of those people. First, the rules for magic were done in time when teens were considered adults. Second, if giving magic to teens would be reason to reset, they would be reset before they explained hammers to Susan, not speaking about navigating them to the vampire.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

Considering we haven't heard Nanase mention anything, it's unlikely Akiko did, but also considering no one has mentioned about hijinks at the mall in October, Akiko is either convinced that nothing happened (which I doubt) or somehow complete strangers convince her not to tell anyone.

... it seems likely she was bribed. Probably got lot of candy.

8 hours ago, AFNB said:

16 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Well, technically it is specifically protected by the courtesy rules because they ban discrimination on a religious basis, but it isn't the faith as much as the working actively towards making the world as we know it end that is making me gun shy. If I let the world end on my watch, the other mods will never let me hear the end of it.

On the other hand, if the world ends and is reborn, we might get something better in its place.

A world where the political divide is not so vast and deep.

A world where all our needs (though not necessarily wants) are provided for.

A world where things are settled with diplomacy rather than violence.

 

 

 

A world where, dare I say it, Gargoyles actually had a REAL third season!

Not in case Cthulhu does the world ending. Well, except the first one.

7 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

With all her experience changing clothes so her mom would think she was dressing conservatively at school, she's probably going to remember to keep the same hair color and style at home, but it would only take one or two slip-ups....

Remember that Mrs. Kitsune KNOWS Nanase has magic. Nanase might not be so stealthy as she thinks ...

3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Indeed, and Edward probably tells her anything she asks about. I know I would. KRAK-A-THOOM!

Think about that scene again. Cranium is one of the most powerful mages known, and she's intimidated by Nanase's mom. It also implies that Mom knew all about Nanase's "secrets".

No, Wolf was the powerful wizard. Cranium might not be that impressive. Still, Noriko is powerhouse. Her sister is likely to have lot of own magic. Especially considering Heredity and magic was always straightforward in Noriko's family ...

1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

1 hour ago, ijuin said:

Eight years old is probably a bit young to be going to the mall alone. I don't know how representative my own experience is, but it wasn't until I was twelve that my parents gave me permission to go about town unattended wherever I wished (as opposed to running specific errands to the supermarket, post office, or wherever).

I'd tend to agree,  It wasn't that long ago that the Kitsunes had Ellen and Nanase babysitting Akikio...

Hmmm ... (looking if it already happened) ... it was few months, yes ...

[T 2]

7 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Akiko is canonically a Tangled fan, at her age she likely doesn't know exactly how far off the norm that spurt of hair growth was.  Nanase using her spell to change style, length, and color without either going to a stylist or disappearing into the bathroom with a box of dye is more suspicious, especially occasions when she might make her hair change length the wrong way -- even an eight-year-old would notice her sister having pixie-cut black hair when she left for school and shoulder-length red-and-black hair when she got home.  With all her experience changing clothes so her mom would think she was dressing conservatively at school, she's probably going to remember to keep the same hair color and style at home, but it would only take one or two slip-ups....

That's ok, because it's been confirmed that hair can spontaneously change color.

[Southern Cross 5]

Actually, we never really see Wolf casting any spells do we? We did see Agent Cranium darken Elliot's hair. Plus there's that ability she has to scan nearby areas. Given that Pandora said to Sarah "the only other person he found with your spell was strongarmed into top-secret government work", it's likely that Agent Cranium is that relative of Sarah's. If that's the case she's likely an S-rank caster, given that Sarah pseudo-Time Stop ability is supposed to be an S-ranked spell.

[ijuin 572]

31 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

No, Wolf was the powerful wizard. Cranium might not be that impressive. Still, Noriko is powerhouse. Her sister is likely to have lot of own magic. Especially considering Heredity and magic was always straightforward in Noriko's family ...

It is plausible that Noriko's sister is of a similar potential level to her, if she had trained as early and as hard as Noriko had. She clearly hasn't been training much in a long time (possibly since Noriko left or even before), but I would not be surprised if she has a few spells up her sleeve.

[hkmaly 490]

51 minutes ago, Southern Cross said:

Actually, we never really see Wolf casting any spells do we? We did see Agent Cranium darken Elliot's hair. Plus there's that ability she has to scan nearby areas. Given that Pandora said to Sarah "the only other person he found with your spell was strongarmed into top-secret government work", it's likely that Agent Cranium is that relative of Sarah's. If that's the case she's likely an S-rank caster, given that Sarah pseudo-Time Stop ability is supposed to be an S-ranked spell.

We never saw Wolf casting any spell, but he IS one of the most powerful wizards in the mid-western United States according to Raven, who is likely to know.

And while I agree that Agent Cranium is likely that person strong-armed into top-secret government work, that doesn't make her Sarah's relative.

53 minutes ago, ijuin said:

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

No, Wolf was the powerful wizard. Cranium might not be that impressive. Still, Noriko is powerhouse. Her sister is likely to have lot of own magic. Especially considering Heredity and magic was always straightforward in Noriko's family ...

It is plausible that Noriko's sister is of a similar potential level to her, if she had trained as early and as hard as Noriko had. She clearly hasn't been training much in a long time (possibly since Noriko left or even before), but I would not be surprised if she has a few spells up her sleeve.

Suuuure ... she don't know what Edward is doing at FBI or that Nanase has magic and she definitely doesn't train her magic since Noriko left.

She may be doing lot of training without Nanase's knowledge, possibly even working for DGB. Or she may not, obviously. But I wouldn't try to guess how good she may be compared to other mages. I'm just sure she has SOME magic.

[mlooney 3,417]

8 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Akiko might not get full explanation yet, but she definitely knows something is being hidden from her. On the other hand, she's 8: she's USED to stuff being hidden from her.

Based on the limited number of 8 year olds I've been in contact with in the last 30 some odd years, while they may be used to stuff being hidden, that doesn't stop them from trying to find out what is hidden and why.  Of course, once they find out, they may or may not have a context to understand why this thing, what ever it was, was hidden from them.

[Scotty 1,061]

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

She may be doing lot of training without Nanase's knowledge, possibly even working for DGB. Or she may not, obviously. But I wouldn't try to guess how good she may be compared to other mages. I'm just sure she has SOME magic.

She may not be continuing the practice herself, but I still think she's been subtly training Nanase. At the very least making sure Nanase has proper discipline, something that Noriko might not have had.

[Vorlonagent 442]

5 hours ago, Scotty said:

She may not be continuing the practice herself, but I still think she's been subtly training Nanase. At the very least making sure Nanase has proper discipline, something that Noriko might not have had.

I don't think discipline was ever a problem with Noriko.  Pride, the needs of her own child?  Those things she might have needed a little work on...

[hkmaly 490]

13 hours ago, mlooney said:

22 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Akiko might not get full explanation yet, but she definitely knows something is being hidden from her. On the other hand, she's 8: she's USED to stuff being hidden from her.

Based on the limited number of 8 year olds I've been in contact with in the last 30 some odd years, while they may be used to stuff being hidden, that doesn't stop them from trying to find out what is hidden and why.  Of course, once they find out, they may or may not have a context to understand why this thing, what ever it was, was hidden from them.

I don't have that much experience with 8 years old either, but I would assume they may not understand why it was hidden but are clever enough to not immediately show that it was not hidden good enough.

8 hours ago, Scotty said:

20 hours ago, hkmaly said:

She may be doing lot of training without Nanase's knowledge, possibly even working for DGB. Or she may not, obviously. But I wouldn't try to guess how good she may be compared to other mages. I'm just sure she has SOME magic.

She may not be continuing the practice herself, but I still think she's been subtly training Nanase. At the very least making sure Nanase has proper discipline, something that Noriko might not have had.

Only thing which is subtle on her training of Nanase is the goal of training.

3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Pride, the needs of her own child?  Those things she might have needed a little work on...

Yeah. Should reverse the importance she gives to those two things.

Although to be fair, we don't know what exactly happened - or IS happening. With the way Edward is hiding truth from Tedd, we can't rule out she WANTS to return but is forbidden to.

[Vorlonagent 442]

Just now, hkmaly said:

Although to be fair, we don't know what exactly happened - or IS happening. With the way Edward is hiding truth from Tedd, we can't rule out she WANTS to return but is forbidden to.

True. Dan does like to give many of his character sympathetic reasons for doing what they do.  But until I know what Noriko's reason actually were, it looks to me like...

Noriko was hung up on her family's tradition of monster-slaying, married Ed Verres to join the power of his lineage to hers (and breed the next generation of as-good or better monster slayers), could not accept that Tedd came out so apparently powerless, and when she finally accepted it, left Ed Verres and Tedd looking for a man who could give her what she wanted and what family honor demanded.

Until I like her better, I wish upon her a son like Damian Wayne, only without his humility and good humor.

[hkmaly 490]

15 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Noriko was hung up on her family's tradition of monster-slaying, married Ed Verres to join the power of his lineage to hers (and breed the next generation of as-good or better monster slayers), could not accept that Tedd came out so apparently powerless, and when she finally accepted it, left Ed Verres and Tedd looking for a man who could give her what she wanted and what family honor demanded.

The most obvious issue with this is that she has no reason to assume any other child she would have with Verres would be also powerless. It would make sense to try at least once more. Maybe girl would be better?

More likely, she and Ed Verres had a fight - I mean quarrel, not really battle - and decided their idea about their marriage is not compatible. Tedd likely wasn't only reason, although it probably was one of reasons; Noriko obviously saw him being powerless as bigger problem than Edward.

[Vorlonagent 442]

1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

The most obvious issue with this is that she has no reason to assume any other child she would have with Verres would be also powerless. It would make sense to try at least once more. Maybe girl would be better?

More likely, she and Ed Verres had a fight - I mean quarrel, not really battle - and decided their idea about their marriage is not compatible. Tedd likely wasn't only reason, although it probably was one of reasons; Noriko obviously saw him being powerless as bigger problem than Edward.

Possible.  I'm sure there were a lot of harsh words said between Noriko and Ed Verres before Noriko left..  I too would think that taking a second shot at babymaking would be in order before giving up.  Lacking to suggest something more likely, I choose to believe Noirko did not agree.  She judged her union with Ed Verres entirely based on Tedd's lack of magic and walked out the door.

I'm sure there's more to it than this.  I expect Dan will humanize Noriko's reasons for leaving some time in the future and I will come to a less harsh view of her.  But today is not that day...

[hkmaly 490]

3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

I too would think that taking a second shot at babymaking would be in order before giving up.  Lacking to suggest something more likely, I choose to believe Noirko did not agree. 

What if it was Edward who didn't agree? What if he had (not completely unjustifiable) worry that Tedd wouldn't get enough mother love even with Noriko in house? What if Edward decided to not risk another baby without magic with possibility of ending alone with two babies?

Noriko: "We need to make another baby, this one is defective."

Edward: "And what if it also wouldn't have magic?"

Noriko: "Uh ... third time's a charm?"

Edward: "Out. And don't dare to come back."

(Presumably, not in these exact words, because if it went like this then both would look worse than if Noriko just gave up on Edward.)

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

Please recall that Adrian Raven blames himself for Edward and Noriko separating.  And he was the one who pleaded with her to stop tormenting Tedd with the Geiger Counter wand and just accept him.  "He may never be your apprentice, but he will always be your son" (I hope I remembered the quote correctly).

There may have been something in Adrian's training or philosophy that helped drive a wedge between Edward and Noriko.  But that was (presumably) unintentional.  Adrian did what he could to keep Noriko in Tedd's life even if he couldn't keep Edward and Noriko together.

What ever factors pushed Tedd's parents apart, it seems likely that Tedd was neither the primary factor nor the straw that broke the camel's back.  But once the separation was made, Tedd's (apparent) lack of magical aptitude probably made Noriko's decision to stay away easier.

So Edward blames himself.
Adrian blames himself.
Tedd seems to go out of his way to avoid thinking about his mother.
And Mrs Kitsune blames everything on Noriko.

Am I missing anything?

[hkmaly 490]

12 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Please recall that Adrian Raven blames himself for Edward and Noriko separating.  And he was the one who pleaded with her to stop tormenting Tedd with the Geiger Counter wand and just accept him.  "He may never be your apprentice, but he will always be your son" (I hope I remembered the quote correctly).

Almost. "He might never be your apprentice, but Tedd will always be your son."

13 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

There may have been something in Adrian's training or philosophy that helped drive a wedge between Edward and Noriko.  But that was (presumably) unintentional.  Adrian did what he could to keep Noriko in Tedd's life even if he couldn't keep Edward and Noriko together.

I think it's more about what was missing in that training. Maybe he blames himself because he started with stuff like "he will always be your son" too late, that most of training was about magic and too little about healthy balance between work and family.

18 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So Edward blames himself.
Adrian blames himself.
Tedd seems to go out of his way to avoid thinking about his mother.
And Mrs Kitsune blames everything on Noriko.

Am I missing anything?

I apparently missed the "Edward blaming himself" part ... where was this shown?

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I apparently missed the "Edward blaming himself" part ... where was this shown?

This may just be an impression I had of Edward.  Fueled by guilt, he threw himself into the overworked - over protector role.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

This may just be an impression I had of Edward.  Fueled by guilt, he threw himself into the overworked - over protector role.

It seems reasonable to me. I can certainly see how it would apply.

[Vorlonagent 442]

On 12/6/2016 at 7:11 PM, hkmaly said:

What if it was Edward who didn't agree? What if he had (not completely unjustifiable) worry that Tedd wouldn't get enough mother love even with Noriko in house? What if Edward decided to not risk another baby without magic with possibility of ending alone with two babies?

Noriko: "We need to make another baby, this one is defective."

Edward: "And what if it also wouldn't have magic?"

Noriko: "Uh ... third time's a charm?"

Edward: "Out. And don't dare to come back."

(Presumably, not in these exact words, because if it went like this then both would look worse than if Noriko just gave up on Edward.)

Ed Verres has plenty of faults, but he's the parent that stayed with his child.  He doesn't seem the warmest man in the universe, but he does come across as no-nonsense and down to earth.  I can't see him calling a marriage off because the first child was magically impaired or because his wife didn't want more, and I cannot see him kicking Noriko out unless she already wanted to go.  It's not in his character. 

Noriko doesn't have a "character" yet.  We don't know much about her except for a few hurtful things she has done.  It was Norko who kept scanning Tedd for signs of magic ability not Ed Verres, and then she's the one who left.  Certainly Mrs. Kitsune harbors a huge grudge against her sister for how she acted towards Tedd.  Those are the dots we have to connect and they point right at Noriko as the problem, not Ed Verres.