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      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
The Old Hack

Political Discussion Thread (READ FIRST POST)

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6 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

The Moderator: I request of all of you to be exceedingly careful about how you discuss this latest horror. Please, no accusations. No matter who shot at whom, I cannot and will not view this as an act of politics but rather as an act of violence done by a very disturbed individual. To me, it is entirely irrelevant what party the victims belonged to and nor will I view the shooter as an agent of any political party. If anything, this was an act calculated to injure democracy itself. That is all.

The idea that the shooter (now dead) would be an intentional, commissioned agent of a political party is repellent.

the Capitol police who dealt with the shooter were only there because one player was high-profile enough to warrant protection as standard operating procedure.  Without him present, there would be no police and the congrespeople at the field would have had no defense.

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1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

and the congresscritters at the field would have had no defense.

The Moderator: *wince* Could we please use 'congresspeople' or some form thereof instead? I know that it is a bipartisan in-joke but it still makes me twitch. Admittedly, that is just a personal quirk of mine, if you think I am being oversensitive about this, please disregard.

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28 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

The Moderator: *wince* Could we please use 'congresspeople' or some form thereof instead? I know that it is a bipartisan in-joke but it still makes me twitch. Admittedly, that is just a personal quirk of mine, if you think I am being oversensitive about this, please disregard.

Fair enough.  Edited.

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So, neither special election in GA nor SC managed to flip deeply red seats blue. No surprise there. The margins were as close as you might expect given the popularity of congress, of the president, and the amount of money poured in. Most surprising was the South Carolina race, which was quite close indeed and did not attract anywhere near the attention of the GA race.

Given that these seats were chosen to be vacated, it is reasonable to suppose that they were chosen partially for their safeness. These did not look like safe-seat races.

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50 minutes ago, Drachefly said:

So, neither special election in GA nor SC managed to flip deeply red seats blue. No surprise there. The margins were as close as you might expect given the popularity of congress, of the president, and the amount of money poured in. Most surprising was the South Carolina race, which was quite close indeed and did not attract anywhere near the attention of the GA race.

Given that these seats were chosen to be vacated, it is reasonable to suppose that they were chosen partially for their safeness. These did not look like safe-seat races.

a close race makes sense given the hoo-hah going on right now.

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My observation on the Georgia race is that as long as the Democrats thought they would win, they tried to make it all about Trump; but as soon as it was apparent they had lost, very few of them would admit that there had been any such effort. (And those few were mostly those who had been criticizing the Democrat leadership for focusing so much on Trump instead of trying to fix the party's internal issues.)

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12 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

My observation on the Georgia race is that as long as the Democrats thought they would win, they tried to make it all about Trump; but as soon as it was apparent they had lost, very few of them would admit that there had been any such effort. (And those few were mostly those who had been criticizing the Democrat leadership for focusing so much on Trump instead of trying to fix the party's internal issues.)

Democrat wins in solidly Republican districts would look great phrased as a referendum on Trump.  the media could run headlines like "Public has lost confidence in Trump" etc.

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On 6/22/2017 at 1:47 AM, Don Edwards said:

My observation on the Georgia race is that as long as the Democrats thought they would win, they tried to make it all about Trump; but as soon as it was apparent they had lost, very few of them would admit that there had been any such effort. (And those few were mostly those who had been criticizing the Democrat leadership for focusing so much on Trump instead of trying to fix the party's internal issues.)

Hmm. Well, the race as it was done locally, was about local issues. Trump and national issues, of course, are the reason the rest of us cared.

So most people talking about the race around the country were interested because of Trump. That does not mean that the race itself was actually about Trump, and still less does it mean that Ossoff's message was at all about Trump.

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12 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

Perhaps we should consider letting dolphins run for office.  ;)

 

18 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

FLIPPER 2020!!!

Beckett and Calavicci in 2016 -- Putting right what once went wrong!
 

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11 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

 

Beckett and Calavicci in 2016 -- Putting right what once went wrong!
 

Well yeah, I would vote for Sam and Al as well, but which candidate would that be since our only clue would be if one of the "regular" candidate was acting goofy and out of character and talking to no one? (There's a joke setup there, I'm sure of it)

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On 8/4/2017 at 2:19 PM, Vorlonagent said:

I'm ready for an alternative.  I'm about as disenchanted with both mainline parties as I can be without taking up arms.

Which may be why, when the two major US political parties' leadership mostly-united behind one candidate, that candidate lost.

 

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On 8/4/2017 at 9:50 AM, Tuscahoma said:

Well yeah, I would vote for Sam and Al as well, but which candidate would that be since our only clue would be if one of the "regular" candidate was acting goofy and out of character and talking to no one? (There's a joke setup there, I'm sure of it)

Well, since their job was putting right what once went wrong, that implies that the candidate who won was the wrong one.  But we already knew that....

Just had a story on the radio about how Wisconsin dairy farms are starting to see a major labor shortage because illegal immigrants are afraid to stay, and they just can't get American citizens to work the kind of hours needed to tend livestock and milk cows etc.  It's one of the biggest industries in the state, and heavily relies on immigrant labor.  Wisconsin was one of the states that surprised so many by going to Trump.  They interviewed employers who said they didn't think Trump was really going to crack down on their labor force, that what they wanted was a path to citizenship for good people who came here to work.  Um, did they not listen at all to what the candidates said during all those interminable months of campaigning?  Like how Hillary wanted a path to citizenship, and Donald wanted to throw out every illegal immigrant and build a wall to keep them out?

There's now an underground railroad to help refugees seeking asylum to make it to Canada, where they have a much better chance of at least being considered for it.  Not the first time I've thought Canada is doing the American Dream better than America is....

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10 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Well, since their job was putting right what once went wrong, that implies that the candidate who won was the wrong one.  But we already knew that....

The US GDP growth tends toward disagreeing with this.   Of course that's short-term.  We'll see what happens long-term.  Most candidates will create winners and losers across the country when they are elected.

10 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Just had a story on the radio about how Wisconsin dairy farms are starting to see a major labor shortage because illegal immigrants are afraid to stay, and they just can't get American citizens to work the kind of hours needed to tend livestock and milk cows etc.  It's one of the biggest industries in the state, and heavily relies on immigrant labor.  Wisconsin was one of the states that surprised so many by going to Trump.  They interviewed employers who said they didn't think Trump was really going to crack down on their labor force, that what they wanted was a path to citizenship for good people who came here to work.  Um, did they not listen at all to what the candidates said during all those interminable months of campaigning?  Like how Hillary wanted a path to citizenship, and Donald wanted to throw out every illegal immigrant and build a wall to keep them out?

One thing at a time.  There are plenty of conservatives that argue that control over US border comes first, because nobody will join a guest worker program if they don't have to.  Trump has created the environment needed to have such a program.  Me, I'd like the program in place first so that workers can move to it straight away with no hitch in the economy from illegals jumping ship from their jobs before the program is up and running.

Even for Wisconsin, Trump's election and the general improvement it brings to the US economy could be a net benefit.  We'll see.  Wisconsin got their cheese made and to market before there were illegals, they'll figure out how to get it done if the supply dries up for good.  It will probably involve automation and robotics.

11 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

There's now an underground railroad to help refugees seeking asylum to make it to Canada, where they have a much better chance of at least being considered for it.  Not the first time I've thought Canada is doing the American Dream better than America is....

It will be interesting to see how quickly Canada actually extends its social programs to the US illegals.  That would be the measure of how welcome the US illegals actually are.  IIRC (Canadians correct me) Canada tends to take a dim view of people running north just because.  The government may let them hang out for a while just to see how things in the US shake out, but that is not the same thing as encouraging them to stay.

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On 8/6/2017 at 10:13 AM, Don Edwards said:

Which may be why, when the two major US political parties' leadership mostly-united behind one candidate, that candidate lost.

Certainly exactly that happened in the Republican Primary.  Everybody who got the Party elites' vote of confidence went down in flames.

The Democrat Party elites rigged their Primary so that their candidate of choice had just short of a lock before the first vote was cast.

(Apologies for the double post)

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11 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Well, since their job was putting right what once went wrong, that implies that the candidate who won was the wrong one.  But we already knew that....

Just had a story on the radio about how Wisconsin dairy farms are starting to see a major labor shortage because illegal immigrants are afraid to stay, and they just can't get American citizens to work the kind of hours needed to tend livestock and milk cows etc.  It's one of the biggest industries in the state, and heavily relies on immigrant labor.  Wisconsin was one of the states that surprised so many by going to Trump.  They interviewed employers who said they didn't think Trump was really going to crack down on their labor force, that what they wanted was a path to citizenship for good people who came here to work.  Um, did they not listen at all to what the candidates said during all those interminable months of campaigning?  Like how Hillary wanted a path to citizenship, and Donald wanted to throw out every illegal immigrant and build a wall to keep them out?

There's now an underground railroad to help refugees seeking asylum to make it to Canada, where they have a much better chance of at least being considered for it.  Not the first time I've thought Canada is doing the American Dream better than America is....

Yeah, we do know who the wrong one was.  We knew it before the election who was wrong.  And yes, it is maddening to see people who voted for the Orange One suddenly surprised when something he does impacts their lives in a negative fashion.  I have heard the phrase, "The press takes him literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally."  Turns out he should have been taken both literally and seriously.

An underground railroad to Canada.  Wow.  I had heard that Canada was receiving a much larger of amount of refugees from America seeking asylum, but apparently we are at this point.

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8 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Certainly exactly that happened in the Republican Primary.  Everybody who got the Party elites' vote of confidence went down in flames.

The Democrat Party elites rigged their Primary so that their candidate of choice had just short of a lock before the first vote was cast.

(Apologies for the double post)

And when the Republican Party establishment ran out of establishment-approved candidates, they did their best to find ways to sabotage their nominee without being obvious about it.

However, they failed on both the sabotage and the not-being-obvious.

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10 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

It will be interesting to see how quickly Canada actually extends its social programs to the US illegals.  That would be the measure of how welcome the US illegals actually are.  IIRC (Canadians correct me) Canada tends to take a dim view of people running north just because.  The government may let them hang out for a while just to see how things in the US shake out, but that is not the same thing as encouraging them to stay.

Sorry I wasn't clear -- it's not people from the USA who are fleeing to Canada, it's people from Venezuela, Colombia, and the like, who flee north to the USA looking for a safe place to live.  Especially children, lately.  They're finding that no matter how dangerous the situation they've fled, there's no way they're going to be granted asylum in the USA, so they're having to continue north to Canada in hopes of finding a country that really will welcome those yearning to breathe free.

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8 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Sorry I wasn't clear -- it's not people from the USA who are fleeing to Canada, it's people from Venezuela, Colombia, and the like, who flee north to the USA looking for a safe place to live.  Especially children, lately.  They're finding that no matter how dangerous the situation they've fled, there's no way they're going to be granted asylum in the USA, so they're having to continue north to Canada in hopes of finding a country that really will welcome those yearning to breathe free.

There's a large number of Haitians that fled to the US after the 2010 earthquake because of how long it was taking to get aid and cleanup in, hardly anything had been done 6 months after the quake because of the way things were organized, apparently a lot of the donations were marked for building, but not much in the way of actual cleanup, I dunno it sounded fishy to me as I remember hearing reports that the Haitian government was corrupt and keeping most the the aid for itself, not to mention most of the land was apparently never registered under any owners. Anyway the Haitian refugees don't believe it's safe to return home even after 7 year despite what Homeland Security says and their protection is set to expire in January so they're coming to Canada before they are forced back to Haiti.

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11 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Sorry I wasn't clear -- it's not people from the USA who are fleeing to Canada, it's people from Venezuela, Colombia, and the like, who flee north to the USA looking for a safe place to live.  Especially children, lately.  They're finding that no matter how dangerous the situation they've fled, there's no way they're going to be granted asylum in the USA, so they're having to continue north to Canada in hopes of finding a country that really will welcome those yearning to breathe free.

You were quite clear.  I didn't for a moment think these were American citizens fleeing to Canada.  I did get the impression that these were people who had cam to the US illegally, lived in the US for some amount of time and then decided that they wanted to jump ship to Canada.

The rub here is money as it often is.  People are expansive and social programs are therefore expansive.  Canada takes a dim view of people going north because they need to keep a budget, something the US could afford to put more emphasis on.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

There's a large number of Haitians that fled to the US after the 2010 earthquake because of how long it was taking to get aid and cleanup in, hardly anything had been done 6 months after the quake because of the way things were organized, apparently a lot of the donations were marked for building, but not much in the way of actual cleanup, I dunno it sounded fishy to me as I remember hearing reports that the Haitian government was corrupt and keeping most the the aid for itself, not to mention most of the land was apparently never registered under any owners. Anyway the Haitian refugees don't believe it's safe to return home even after 7 year despite what Homeland Security says and their protection is set to expire in January so they're coming to Canada before they are forced back to Haiti.

Haiti on its best day is a dump.  the US isn't.  Canada isn't.  I wouldn't blame the haitian refugees for saying they're afraid to go back when they just don't want to go back.

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3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Haiti on its best day is a dump.  the US isn't.  Canada isn't.  I wouldn't blame the haitian refugees for saying they're afraid to go back when they just don't want to go back.

Bending my own rule about posting here again...

I was thinking of my great grandfather. In the early years of his life, he pursued a successful career as a travelling merchant in Siberia and eventually amassed a fairly decent pile of money. In the summer of 1914, he was on a vacation in Germany. Then the World War began and Russians became rather unwelcome in Germany. On New Year's Eve 1914, he brought his family to Denmark and rather than return to Russia he decided to stay in Denmark and see how matters developed. Around 1918 he decided that Denmark was probably a better place to live in than Russia and decided to stay. There, my grandmother eventually met my grandfather (another refugee from Russia) and married him.

In the summer of 1939 my great grandfather went on another vacation. This time he went to the US bringing along my grandmother's younger sister. Then the second World War broke out. Once again my great grandfather decided to extend his stay rather than return to Denmark. Being by this time moderately prosperous he bought a home in Beverly Hills and awaited events. Sadly the old gentleman passed away in 1943, leaving his property to my great-aunt who took up permanent residence in the US afterwards.

You could say a lot of things about my great-grandfather, but his sense of timing was impeccable.

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7 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

You could say a lot of things about my great-grandfather, but his sense of timing was impeccable.

And the winner of the understatement of the month goes to The Old Hack.  Tell him what he has won Fred...

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Just a note for those people that don't pay attention to the 3rd-page international news. India and China had a border "incident" Tuesday. Both of these countries have nukes and the fought a brief war in 1962 over this area.

This, believe it or not, bother me a little more than most of the stuff on the 1st two pages of news today.


 

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