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The Old Hack

Political Discussion Thread (READ FIRST POST)

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On 5/17/2020 at 2:45 AM, ProfessorTomoe said:

The stupid, it hurts too much. I couldn't watch it all the way through.

The first one was painful, I lost it during the second segment. I think I watched at least 10% of it, though. I guess you need a lobotomy ti appreciate Fox Noises.

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(From NP Tuesday November 02, 2021, moved to Political Discussion Thread)

The Old Hack said: "I don't mind AOC, but she is kinda right wing for my tastes."

She is pretty much the furthest left electable in the US. I think she's more thoughtful than Bernie, who I kind of like, but sometimes he seems unrealistic. If he has a plan as well, she articulates hers better, which is an important skill for a politician. I don't think we've had anyone like her since FDR.

We've had politicians to the left of her, but not ones I could take seriously. Angela Davis comes to mind. She was an intelligent black woman, but she fixated on how unfair our system of her day was, which it was (and still is), and leaped on the Soviet backed American Communist party. I don't see Soviet style anything as 'better', although they've had some moments. Stalin was Hitler painted a different color. I will admit that the cold war was not as black and white as it is portrayed here, but you won't find that out in the US unless you do some serious probing. I don't see them as backing 'fairness' in any sense, no matter what their base rhetoric says. I also have to admit, I have not paid APC much mind since the wall came tumbling down, so I don't know how they align themselves anymore.

I could see your quote in the context of most mainstream democrats. I like Barack Obama, but I expected more. I don't hate Joe Biden, nor are my expectations high, although lately he seems to be growing a spine. One can hope.

We have greens. They are leftie, and their main cause is an important concern, but they tend to be a bit loony, they want every last bit of everything they perceive as 'green' without apparent regard for new technology. Example, 'Nukes are bad'; France would beg to differ, they've nigh eliminated fossil fuel use for public utilities by using nuclear power. Our nuclear power industry is a mess, but that is because of resistance to moving forward. There are designs that could burn much of the waste we attempt to sequester. (We have stupid nuclear regulation. You can't build a plant that does not require cooling, because the regulations specify an amount of cooling. If you don't need it, you automatically do not get approval, even for a pilot proof of concept. Even though they are safer and lest wasteful. <sigh>) 

It boils down to, I want to like the greens, their main plank is important, and idiots who are pursuing a few more bucks from coal, oil, and gas are like cockroaches hiding in the walls and floorboards as the house burns down, but the packages the greens want to sell are overall ... archaic, contradictory, somewhat counterproductive, perhaps too narrowly focused. It does not surprise me that few of them get elected here. (This is where a proportional voice would be nice, so their concerns are at least heard).

Who do you see as viable and to the right of AOC? Or, who do you like, even if not viable?

What issues do you see AOC as too far to the right on?

Who do you like in your own country?

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40 minutes ago, ijuin said:

Clearly, this man cares nothing for the First Amendment to the US Constitution, nor for the process needed to legally alter it.

I admit I rather like the idea of separation of Church and State. We don't have it in Denmark, but many believe we ought to have it. We do have freedom of belief protected by our Constitution, mind you -- expressed in the form 'freedom of thought, freedom of belief and freedom of speech.'

Yes, our notions of democracy grabbed everything we could from the American Constitution. We didn't get separation of Church and State, but in fairness the Church has had very little influence for several decades and it is possible for individual citizens to declare themselves emancipated from the Church. ('Emancipated' sounds a little drastic and has unfortunate implications, but I honestly think it is the best translation of the term.)

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42 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

I admit I rather like the idea of separation of Church and State.

The camel keeps trying to push his nose back in the tent. The Christian version of the Taliban.

I've never followed Ron Filipkowski, I will investigate, he seems like a decent watchdog.

If you have time to invest in it, there are several on Youtube that are worth watching. John Oliver tends to go in depth on his show, Trevor Noah will go a little broader, but will dive deep when needed. TYT and David Pakman are good commentators, although TYT can be a bit wordy, depending on who is speaking. MSNBC is pretty much uniformly excellent, but Rachel Maddow is incredibly analytical and presents in an unbiased tone.

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One, of many, problems I have with many evangelical "Christians" is when they talk about "One religion" is that the don't count Roman Catholic or lower case catholics like Anglicans as "Christians".  This leaves me out.  Never mind they whole 1st Amendment aspect, they don't even count a large number of christian churches  as christian.

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Yes, “One Religion” almost always means “my religion”. Given that amending the Constitution requires 3/4 of the States to agree, and no denomination—indeed, no category more specific than “Protestant”—has anywhere near that degree of dominance, I seriously doubt that the USA is going to establish any particular denomination as a State Religion.

What we may see however is a resurgence of intolerance by the general public towards religions considered hostile to Christianity, especially Antisemitism and Islamophobia.

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Qouteing the actual words of Christ here
 

Quote

Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Unfortunately many "Christians" don't follow these.

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On 11/17/2021 at 9:46 AM, mlooney said:

Quoting the actual words of Christ here ...

Unfortunately many "Christians" don't follow these.

Kris Kristofferson said it well.

I've had several pastors who were into word counts, the idea being what Jesus spoke a lot about was what he was emphasizing.

Well, you know what he says a lot? "Don't judge". If you include the subtext, it is the substance of what he did.

I don't recall ever hearing a sermon calling this out. The closest I can recall is someone saying "Gossip is bad".

It is significant that 'The Good Samaritan' parable is tied to your quote, not in the same book, but in Luke, where a lawyer says it, then questions who it applies to. The illustration is brilliant, if dated. For anyone that needs it updated, recall that the audience is Jewish Israelites, and substitute 'Palestinian' for 'Samaritan'; they are not the same, but the sentiment would be similar.

I happen to believe Jesus is a real person, substantially as presented, but for those of you that think he's a work of fiction, you have to admit, that as a fictional character, he had an amazingly creative and insightful author.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I happen to believe Jesus is a real person, substantially as presented, but for those of you that think he's a work of fiction, you have to admit, that as a fictional character, he had an amazingly creative and insightful author.

It's fairly well established that he had 4 authors and one fan boy.  Plus what ever you call the person that wrote Revelation. 

 

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2 hours ago, mlooney said:

It's fairly well established that he had 4 authors and one fan boy.  Plus what ever you call the person that wrote Revelation.

Pretty much the accepted norm among believers. You call Paul a fan boy, I say that more applies to the dozens of other works that are not accepted as canon, which are in a sense, still being written.

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The RNC is making it hard to be a legitimate strong national defense conservative.  Enough so that most Neo-cons have said that they aren't part of the Republican party any more.

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Just now, mlooney said:

The RNC is making it hard to be a legitimate strong national defense conservative.  Enough so that most Neo-cons have said that they aren't part of the Republican party any more.

I have the deepest respect for actual Conservatives. I may disagree with them on a lot of things but at least we can discuss them. Using legitimate political discourse, even.

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At this point, I think that the genuine Conservatives should separate from the Fruit Loops and Wing Nuts who have screwed up their party and create a new proper center-right party that would be more like the pre-Reagan Republicans. Unfortunately, with the current state of the voting public, no Right-Wing party can get a majority of votes without the support of the large group of Trumpists.

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48 minutes ago, ijuin said:

At this point, I think that the genuine Conservatives should separate from the Fruit Loops and Wing Nuts who have screwed up their party and create a new proper center-right party that would be more like the pre-Reagan Republicans. Unfortunately, with the current state of the voting public, no Right-Wing party can get a majority of votes without the support of the large group of Trumpists.

Yeah, I'd like that as well.  But you're right, right now a right wing party with out a Trump wing is doomed to fail.  I don't often wish that some one would die of natural causes, but sirrah Trump is pushing an exception. 

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Unfortunately, if his death occurs by any means that appears the least bit unnatural, then the conspiracy theorists will scream that it was assassination. If he dies in a car crash or other accident, or of COVID, or of any rare non-chronic infectious disease, they will cry foul play.

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1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Yes because someone over 70 succumbing to what would be an minor injury or illness in a younger person is utterly impossible

We can only hope.

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3 hours ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

What if he choked to death while trying to swallow his MyPillow during a bad Left Wing dream one night? Would someone still cry foul because it was stuffed with feathers? ;)

MyPillows are stuffed with bits of foam, not feathers.

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17 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

I have the deepest respect for actual Conservatives. I may disagree with them on a lot of things but at least we can discuss them. Using legitimate political discourse, even.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden speaking at John McCain's funeral brought tears to my eyes. They may not have agreed with him on much, but they knew how to value his contribution and to show proper respect. I believe his widow and family felt the support and love.

 

17 hours ago, ijuin said:

At this point, I think that the genuine Conservatives should separate from the Fruit Loops and Wing Nuts who have screwed up their party and create a new proper center-right party that would be more like the pre-Reagan Republicans. Unfortunately, with the current state of the voting public, no Right-Wing party can get a majority of votes without the support of the large group of Trumpists.

 

16 hours ago, mlooney said:

Yeah, I'd like that as well.  But you're right, right now a right wing party with out a Trump wing is doomed to fail.  I don't often wish that some one would die of natural causes, but sirrah Trump is pushing an exception. 

There are Republicans that openly reject the Trump extremism. The Lincoln Project is noteworthy, although it has issues of it's own. The RNC censuring its members on the Jan 6 committee has opened a gaping wound in their party.

They toss the term RINO around a lot. I think they need a heap o' introspection, maybe they might see that they are the RINOs they speak of.

With Mitch at the helm, I don't see change on the horizon for them. The man is stuck in the 1970s.

 

 

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