• Announcements

    • Robin

      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
The Old Hack

Political Discussion Thread (READ FIRST POST)

Recommended Posts

A difference that I see here is that Biden bragged about it while the Trump administration tried very hard to cover it up. As with Watergate, the cover-up was a greater crime than the event being covered up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

And yet you see something wrong with the President of the United States indicating that it would be okay for said investigation to resume and he'd be interested in seeing the results, when the President of Ukraine brings up the subject.

I see nothing wrong with the President of the United States indicating that more corruption investigation is necessary.

I do see something wrong with this being done in the form of withholding aid that a bipartisan Congress voted Ukraine and essentially blackmailing the President of Ukraine by telling him that he won't get that aid unless he makes a loud public attack on a current political enemy.

I also wonder at the logic inherent in "The Democrats did something bad, so it is OK for Republicans to do it, too."

You would think that there would be bipartisan agreement among voters that NEITHER side should be allowed to do things like this. Instead it seems to be, "We need to do more of this to the other side, because that is good for democracy, right."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ijuin said:

A difference that I see here is that Biden bragged about it while the Trump administration tried very hard to cover it up. As with Watergate, the cover-up was a greater crime than the event being covered up.

Publishing the transcript of the conversation in question is an odd way to cover it up.

58 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

I see nothing wrong with the President of the United States indicating that more corruption investigation is necessary.

I do see something wrong with this being done in the form of withholding aid that a bipartisan Congress voted Ukraine and essentially blackmailing the President of Ukraine by telling him that he won't get that aid unless he makes a loud public attack on a current political enemy.

I also wonder at the logic inherent in "The Democrats did something bad, so it is OK for Republicans to do it, too."

You would think that there would be bipartisan agreement among voters that NEITHER side should be allowed to do things like this. Instead it seems to be, "We need to do more of this to the other side, because that is good for democracy, right."

There's no evidence that Trump made any threat of withholding aid - in fact the transcript has nothing even vaguely like that, and strong suggestions to the contrary. Nor that Trump specifically desired the investigation implicate Biden. On the other hand, some leftover from prior administrations said that in HIS opinion a withholding of aid was likely.

I don't wonder at the logic inherent in "The Democrats did something bad, so it is OK for Republicans to NOT do it too" - which is what we actually have. On the other hand, "The Democrats did something  and that's perfectly okay, but if the Republicans do the same thing then it's bad so let's pretend they did and maybe fabricate some evidence"... well yeah that's puzzling.

That is, unless the standard of justice has become "guilty until proven Democrat". Which seems to be the case both in the media and in the House of Representatives. 

By the way, I really don't care what motives may lie behind Trump's interest in this investigation. Investigating corruption is part of his job, and I approve of him doing his job. If we had good reason to think that he was refusing to investigate allegations of Republican corruption with similar degrees of supporting evidence, THEN there would be questions - not about why he's investigating Democrats, but about why he isn't investigating said Republicans.

Oh, and "quid pro quo" - which there apparently isn't in this case - is not automatically a big deal either. You give your grocer money, he lets you walk out with food - quid pro quo. Clinton made an agreement with Ukraine about sharing data from criminal investigations when an investigation in one country implicates people in the other, and I bet that agreement has some quid pro quo built into it - at a bare minimum, that the sharing of data be in both directions. When the Ukrainian President brought up the matter of this particular investigation Trump asked that Ukraine share data as provided for in that agreement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Appropriating funds for foreign aid is a function of Congress, not of the Executive branch, so it is not appropriate for ANY President to withhold such funds for any reason without Congressional consent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/10/2019 at 0:49 AM, Don Edwards said:

By the way, I really don't care what motives may lie behind Trump's interest in this investigation. Investigating corruption is part of his job, and I approve of him doing his job

And investigation of alleged corruption of the President is part of the House of Representatives' job. Regardless of their motives I'm glad they're doing that job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now