Political Discussion Thread (READ FIRST POST)

[mlooney 3,417]

4 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

The kind of bad thoughts and magic they are suggesting carries some weight, which is why the second seat in a two-seater is usually an electronic warfare officer (EWO). Has been like this for decades, and the battlefield is only getting more dependent on good instant intel.

An actual shooting no-fly zone would require direct involvement of NATO, which everyone is bending over backward to avoid. If NATO directly fights Russia, exchanging nukes is highly probable. As long as NATO just lends support, Russia has reason to hold back, and we don't go the way of the dinosaurs.

Ukraine on it's own is not capable of creating a no-fly zone, but they are doing their damnedest to create one anyway.

Quote

"electromagnetic pulse, sonar, and cyber"

  EMP more or less require a nuke to have any effect, so that's right out.  Sonar doesn't work that way and Russian planes aren't networked enough for cyber to have any effect, so yeah, magic and bad thoughts. 

[ijuin 572]

EMP over a wide enough area to disable an entire airstrip with a single device would indeed require a nuke. Vehicle-mounted EMP generators or grenade-like EMP bombs are a thing, but have an effective range of maybe tens of meters—i.e. you have to be close enough to see the whites of their eyes to use it, so to speak. Great for wrecking a computer center once you’re in it, but not great for “we’re not actually shooting at you”.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

3 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Eh, it would probably only be the end of our current civilization, not humanity as a species. Still, I'm not exactly eager to try to survive a nuclear winter, so I quite appreciate NATO's caution.

You may, of course be correct, but here's a sobering thought, several human species have already gone extinct on this earth. Only one currently remains.

Also, if that is not morbid enough, extinction is inevitable. Either you advance or succumb. Although, that has nothing to do with a nuclear exchange, except as a sideshow.

[ijuin 572]

As long as the species which replaces us comes from us (either our descendants or engineered by us), is sapient to a degree at least equal to us, and is not morally abhorrent to us, I am not too worried about the future of the universe.

[mlooney 3,417]

10 hours ago, ijuin said:

Vehicle-mounted EMP generators or grenade-like EMP bombs are a thing, but have an effective range of maybe tens of meters—i.e. you have to be close enough to see the whites of their eyes to use it, so to speak.

Getting on a Russian airstrip and using a weapon has many issues.  Like it's an act of war and would cause the Soviets Russians to have a fit and reply in kind.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

12 hours ago, ijuin said:

As long as the species which replaces us comes from us (either our descendants or engineered by us), is sapient to a degree at least equal to us, and is not morally abhorrent to us, I am not too worried about the future of the universe.

What is likely: they are not morally abhorrent, from a certain point of view. Much like we already have. The group committing genocide do not think of themselves as monsters at the time.

[mlooney 3,417]

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

 

Putin was a KGB Agent

George HW Bush(41) was CIA Director

Why are they so different?

[ijuin 572]

2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Putin was a KGB Agent

George HW Bush(41) was CIA Director

Why are they so different?

Bush wanted to serve his country. Putin wanted his country to serve him.

[mlooney 3,417]

12 hours ago, ijuin said:

14 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Putin was a KGB Agent

George HW Bush(41) was CIA Director

Why are they so different?

Bush wanted to serve his country. Putin wanted his country to serve him.

That is the best wording I can think of for the difference.  Plus, of course, Bush was a navy pilot in war time before he got into public service and politics, which implies a level of service that Putin doesn't have. 

[ijuin 572]

In Soviet Russia, country serve you!

[mlooney 3,417]

2 hours ago, ijuin said:

In Soviet Russia, country serve you!

That's part of the problem.  Putin wants the USSR back.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

15 minutes ago, mlooney said:

That's part of the problem.  Putin wants the USSR back.

He wants the Stalin era back.

[mlooney 3,417]

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

He wants the Stalin era back.

With him as Stalin, of course.  Not say, Molotov or Trotsky.

[ProfessorTomoe 1,308]

8 hours ago, mlooney said:

Putin wants the USSR back.

Back in the USSR
Don't know how lucky you are, boy
Back in the USSR

[mlooney 3,417]

1 hour ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

Back in the USSR
Don't know how lucky you are, boy
Back in the USSR

I got in a little bit of trouble while playing at max volume that while waving a red flag out the window of a car while the driver was doing donuts in the parking lot of the high school.  The 70's were a magical time.

[ProfessorTomoe 1,308]

4 hours ago, mlooney said:

I got in a little bit of trouble while playing at max volume that while waving a red flag out the window of a car while the driver was doing donuts in the parking lot of the high school.  The 70's were a magical time.

1981. I was the lead judge from the Soviet Union to the International Court of Justice for the Houston Area Model United Nations. It was a high school thing. Our high school represented the USSR and someone else (can't remember). We were bad guys, to be certain.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

On 3/30/2022 at 5:19 AM, ProfessorTomoe said:

1981. I was the lead judge from the Soviet Union to the International Court of Justice for the Houston Area Model United Nations. It was a high school thing. Our high school represented the USSR and someone else (can't remember). We were bad guys, to be certain.

An old friend of mine told me of a huge war game exercise at the University of Lancaster covering diplomacy and war across the globe for the entirety of WW2. More than a hundred students participated. During this exercise, the Soviet Union displayed Putin-like mastery of war. They spotted a huge gap in the German lines and decided to punch through it and surround the Germans from the rear.

This gap was also known as the Pripet Marsh, one of the biggest swamps in the world. The entire offensive ground to a screeching halt soon after entering it. The German staff calmly cut the 'offensive' off, trapping it without supplies in the Pripet. The Soviet faction did not do well after that strategic master stroke.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

Rat's answer to politics.

[mlooney 3,417]

5 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Rat's answer to politics.

Too bad that Mythbusters have proved that sinking in over your head in quicksand doesn't work.  Also, when was the last time a politicians  knocked on a your door?  I've never had even a campaign worker knock on my door.

[Darth Fluffy 302]

57 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Too bad that Mythbusters have proved that sinking in over your head in quicksand doesn't work.  Also, when was the last time a politicians  knocked on a your door?  I've never had even a campaign worker knock on my door.

I've had canvasing visits, and so did my dad, but it's been ages, and generally local elections. Then again, I've lived in an apartment for about twenty years.

The Mythbusters thing seems reasonable, sand is denser than water, so you should be pretty buoyant in a sand/water mixture. Maybe varied by what kind of sand and how thick the mixture is. I doubt if you would stay upright, though, and keeping your breathing on top might be problematic. I'm guessing that the best bet would be to float on your back. That works well in water.

[mlooney 3,417]

At least with the sand and water combination that the Mythbusters used, if you are upright you reach a buoyancy  point of about mid lower torso.  Not high enough to make breathing hard, but not really good for standing up right either.  Floating on your back was the best option as you say.   . 

[Darth Fluffy 302]

1 hour ago, mlooney said:

At least with the sand and water combination that the Mythbusters used, if you are upright you reach a buoyancy  point of about mid lower torso.  Not high enough to make breathing hard, but not really good for standing up right either.  Floating on your back was the best option as you say.   . 

So where does the myth come from?

[ijuin 572]

2 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

So where does the myth come from?

Probably from people who had heard about quicksand but never experienced it imagining themselves being swallowed up by it.

[ProfessorTomoe 1,308]

HEY!!! What the hell is all this hard science doing in my politics thread?