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Story Monday January 9, 2017

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Ok so Pandora doesn't know what Tedd's rarity is about, she just knew what his abilities were, I would imagine "Seer" doesn't even scratch the surface here, so Voltaire likely doesn't realize what he's dealing with.

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Who will she seek?  What will she search?  Where will she sell sea shells?

I am overwhelmed with thoughts.

Is there a library for immortals and / or the highest levels of the magic using community?

I could see her buzzing around while attempting to extract information from many people.

But I better rein in this wild speculation.  I am already convincing myself that she is going to ask for assistance from Magus, Noriko, and Mrs Kitsune.

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2 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

But I better rein in this wild speculation.  I am already convincing myself that she is going to ask for assistance from Magus, Noriko, and Mrs Kitsune.

Where ever she needs to go, it'll likely involve someone or something with more knowledge than mortals would have access to.

Maybe there's some sort of repository that Immortals have that goes back several millenia? Or maybe it's in plain sight like hieroglyphs in the pyramids or cave paintings.

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As if life in Moperville wasn't weird enough, it's about to get stranger

I also think that as of today, we can officially take Pandora "Box" Chaos Raven off the bad guy list.

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Soooo, Pandora decided to NOT show to Tedd and try to tell him it's not as back and instead be actually useful.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

Ok so Pandora doesn't know what Tedd's rarity is about, she just knew what his abilities were, I would imagine "Seer" doesn't even scratch the surface here, so Voltaire likely doesn't realize what he's dealing with.

It's possible Pandora has pretty good understanding about the abilities but doesn't know the name, reason and purpose, while Voltaire knows the name and purpose but is uncertain about what abilities it actually constitute. Like, each of them have different half of knowledge.

3 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

But I better rein in this wild speculation.  I am already convincing myself that she is going to ask for assistance from Magus, Noriko, and Mrs Kitsune.

Contacting the sisters - I mean, Noriko and Mrs. Kutsune - might have at least some sense but Magus?

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Where ever she needs to go, it'll likely involve someone or something with more knowledge than mortals would have access to.

Maybe there's some sort of repository that Immortals have that goes back several millenia? Or maybe it's in plain sight like hieroglyphs in the pyramids or cave paintings.

Why "or"? There totally can be some sort of repository with Immortals informations that goes back several millenia and is hidden in plain sight. Although hieroglyphs were presumably written by HUMANS and we have pretty good idea what most of them speaks about, even if we can't do exact translation. I'm guessing something more mysterious. Moai on Eastern Islands - wait, those are too recent. Nazca lines - wait, those are mostly animals ...

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I think she's going to see the Wizard. Specfically the Emmisary of Magic. He's the one that gave her the hint, he knows stuff about magic that even immortals have forgotten, and she did tell him that it would be easy to find his physical body.

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4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It's possible Pandora has pretty good understanding about the abilities but doesn't know the name, reason and purpose, while Voltaire knows the name and purpose but is uncertain about what abilities it actually constitute. Like, each of them have different half of knowledge.

Voltaire was watching Tedd, Grace and Sarah, he would have heard them talking about what "box" told Sarah, and seen Tedd use his ability to see Sarah's spell in action. Also, considering Tedd is apparently the main focus of Voltaire (as Elliot's death was intended to traumatize Tedd) he would have been watching Tedd often and seen Tedd using the ability frequently, Voltaire can still try to take advantage of Tedd's abilities without knowing the exact nature of them.

4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Why "or"?

I'm saying, the place could either exist in the Immortal's realm, or some as yet undiscovered ancient library, or it could be somewhere that humans have discovered, but misinterpreted the symbols and writings. Heck maybe she knows the location of an unstranslated copy of the bible that is actually a historical record of magic events, the Will of Magic and someone with Tedd's abilities and we find out that Tedd is the next coming of Christ.

1 hour ago, Drasvin said:

I think she's going to see the Wizard. Specfically the Emmisary of Magic. He's the one that gave her the hint, he knows stuff about magic that even immortals have forgotten, and she did tell him that it would be easy to find his physical body.

That's a possibility, but that all depends on if he actually knows anything, or if it was all supplied by the spell that let him contact Grace. Outside the dreams, Disco Wizard doesn't know about Grace or what goes on in the dreams, he just knows that something is wrong and that he needs to use the spell, the stuff he mentioned about the different kind of wizard may just have been info supplied by the spell but it's uncertain whether that's true or not because of the fact that Disco Wizard does retain knowledge of what goes on when he's awake as shown by him mentioning the news report of Elliot and Tara at the mall.

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So Tedd is Magic's failsafe?  If Magic resets the world magic operating system, then Tedd is the Sys Admin who gave eventually relearn how it all works?  That would seem to be Tedd's purpose.  Honestly, if that is Tedd's purpose, then there may be other aspects to Tedd's powers that we haven't really seen or understood to help in this task.

One thing she didn't mention, perhaps because she herself doesn't know about it, is Tedd's glowing, which seems to occur when he has intuitions regarding magic as well as when he is strongly feeling love.  The use of his magic intuition also seems to give Tedd a burst of energy as well, which would be interesting if that energy turned out to be something he could channel into magic.

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10 hours ago, Scotty said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It's possible Pandora has pretty good understanding about the abilities but doesn't know the name, reason and purpose, while Voltaire knows the name and purpose but is uncertain about what abilities it actually constitute. Like, each of them have different half of knowledge.

Voltaire was watching Tedd, Grace and Sarah, he would have heard them talking about what "box" told Sarah, and seen Tedd use his ability to see Sarah's spell in action. Also, considering Tedd is apparently the main focus of Voltaire (as Elliot's death was intended to traumatize Tedd) he would have been watching Tedd often and seen Tedd using the ability frequently, Voltaire can still try to take advantage of Tedd's abilities without knowing the exact nature of them.

Having Tedd as main interest doesn't mean watching him constantly, but yes, good point, he must have pretty good idea about Tedd's abilities.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Why "or"?

I'm saying, the place could either exist in the Immortal's realm, or some as yet undiscovered ancient library, or it could be somewhere that humans have discovered, but misinterpreted the symbols and writings

With the missing bit of "in the Immortal's realm" it makes more sense, right. Except so far only the immortals themselves were on that "immortal's realm" ... it may not be possible to have persistent structures build there. However, I like the "undiscovered ancient library" idea - it can be something which is on normal material plane, but under hundred meters of rock ... or ice ... or under ocean's bottom ...

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

Heck maybe she knows the location of an unstranslated copy of the bible that is actually a historical record of magic events, the Will of Magic and someone with Tedd's abilities and we find out that Tedd is the next coming of Christ.

If it would be true, we won't find out. Dan is very careful about modern religions and wouldn't want to directly reference one of them in way which makes us more certain about them in EGS than in our universe. He probably only talked about immortals named Zeus because he doesn't believe anyone (of his readers) is still worshipping Zeus.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:
11 hours ago, Drasvin said:

I think she's going to see the Wizard. Specfically the Emmisary of Magic. He's the one that gave her the hint, he knows stuff about magic that even immortals have forgotten, and she did tell him that it would be easy to find his physical body.

That's a possibility, but that all depends on if he actually knows anything, or if it was all supplied by the spell that let him contact Grace. Outside the dreams, Disco Wizard doesn't know about Grace or what goes on in the dreams, he just knows that something is wrong and that he needs to use the spell, the stuff he mentioned about the different kind of wizard may just have been info supplied by the spell but it's uncertain whether that's true or not because of the fact that Disco Wizard does retain knowledge of what goes on when he's awake as shown by him mentioning the news report of Elliot and Tara at the mall.

Yes. While he only mentioned specific knowledge about Grace, I would assume the details about magic reset are also something which was supplied by the spell ... on the other hand, even if that is the case, Pandora might STILL visit him just to verify that.

4 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

So Tedd is Magic's failsafe?  If Magic resets the world magic operating system, then Tedd is the Sys Admin who gave eventually relearn how it all works?  That would seem to be Tedd's purpose.  Honestly, if that is Tedd's purpose, then there may be other aspects to Tedd's powers that we haven't really seen or understood to help in this task.

Note that Tedd is likely not ONLY failsafe. There is type of wizards which are failsafe for the magic reset and Tedd is one of them. Hmmmm ... however, it may by possible Tedd is only AWARE failsafe - that others didn't ever tried to work with magic and therefore don't know they have any talent.

4 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

One thing she didn't mention, perhaps because she herself doesn't know about it, is Tedd's glowing, which seems to occur when he has intuitions regarding magic as well as when he is strongly feeling love.

I still think that the "love" bit is red herring and he just used his analyzing ability on his feeling about Grace. Not sure if/how it was good for anything, but glowing as sideefect of magic analyzing ability makes more sense.

 

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However, I like the "undiscovered ancient library" idea

It's in a pocket universe. The head librarian is a sphinx named Phix. It has a copy of every book ever written, from stone tablets to ebooks.

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3 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

It's in a pocket universe. The head librarian is a sphinx named Phix. It has a copy of every book ever written, from stone tablets to ebooks.

Either that, or the Library is run by Noah Wyle and John Larroquette. Interestingly enough there's an upcoming episode titled "And the Wrath of Chaos". ;)

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39 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:
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However, I like the "undiscovered ancient library" idea

It's in a pocket universe. The head librarian is a sphinx named Phix. It has a copy of every book ever written, from stone tablets to ebooks.

If Pandora can travel between universes, there are definitely LOT of places she can visit ... but I would assume there is something little closer.

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I wonder what gets recorded in an Immortal Library?

In museums I have actually heard people complain that things that happened in their lifetime (or even in their parent's or grandparent's lifetimes) are not history.

People often stop studying history in adolescence.  For them, History is everything up to the end of their high school history book.  And that may have very well stopped ten or more years before that student read it.

An immortal fresh from a reset will study their previous memories as much as they can.  But once they are "up to date", will they regard anything after that point as history?  Fully rational immortals may regard two centuries as recent events and not history.

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51 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

In museums I have actually heard people complain that things that happened in their lifetime (or even in their parent's or grandparent's lifetimes) are not history.

They say that to avoid this a bard should never tell a tale of events still in living memory. But "they" never encountered living memory quite this old!

57 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

People often stop studying history in adolescence.  For them, History is everything up to the end of their high school history book.  And that may have very well stopped ten or more years before that student read it.

It usually stops before current ministry of education got to power.

58 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

An immortal fresh from a reset will study their previous memories as much as they can.  But once they are "up to date", will they regard anything after that point as history?  Fully rational immortals may regard two centuries as recent events and not history.

But immortals are not synchronized. I suppose only young immortals are allowed to decide what's history.

52 minutes ago, Xenophon Hendrix said:

Perhaps she's going to talk to the space whales.

I don't think whales know more than Pandora already knows. "Much more dangerous rarity" doesn't seem that much specific.

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16 hours ago, Drasvin said:

I think she's going to see the Wizard. Specfically the Emmisary of Magic. He's the one that gave her the hint, he knows stuff about magic that even immortals have forgotten, and she did tell him that it would be easy to find his physical body.

Trouble is, the Emissary of the Will of Magic said he only knows all that stuff when he casts the spell to get into Grace's dreams.  If Pandora is right that the goal of that spell was to get her attention, then that goal has been achieved and the unknown spellcaster likely isn't casting that spell any more.  If she does find his physical body, she's going to have to introduce herself and try to convince him to cast the spell again, then get to Grace and enter her dreams to converse with Will's Emissary.

If the spellcaster is a completely new character, this might be relatively simple.  If the Emissary is an alter-ego of someone we know under a different name and appearance, then it could be anywhere from awkward to impossible.  Still, it might be her best bet.

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7 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Trouble is, the Emissary of the Will of Magic said he only knows all that stuff when he casts the spell to get into Grace's dreams.  If Pandora is right that the goal of that spell was to get her attention, then that goal has been achieved and the unknown spellcaster likely isn't casting that spell any more.  If she does find his physical body, she's going to have to introduce herself and try to convince him to cast the spell again, then get to Grace and enter her dreams to converse with Will's Emissary.

If the spellcaster is a completely new character, this might be relatively simple.  If the Emissary is an alter-ego of someone we know under a different name and appearance, then it could be anywhere from awkward to impossible.  Still, it might be her best bet.

His spell lets him remember who Grace is, details about her and their past meetings, and why he's contacting her. I remember nothing that would imply he needs to spell to know about the nature of the Will of Magic and such other knowledge that immortals have forgotten.

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13 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I don't think whales know more than Pandora already knows. "Much more dangerous rarity" doesn't seem that much specific.

While this isn't my favorite theory I guess it could be a case where the whale referred to Tedd as a "dangerous rarity" because they know that some one like him will only be born either if magic is about to change or if there is a risk that magic will have to change. Being a harbinger of magic change would certainly classify him as a dangerous rarity.
 

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When Shamu was talking to Tedd, the conversation had to be kept as brief as possible.  The pain Tedd experienced was significant.

Perhaps an Immortal would be able to endure a longer discussion.  (Maybe the Whales would be suffering through an extended Pandora diatribe.)  But the point is, if Pandora could see the whales and take more time to communicate, then the whales may be able to explain in more detail what they meant by "Rarity".

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If Tedd was born to be a Seer specifically because of a possible impending Magic System Change, then the motivation for the Change would have to be from before his birth--and from before Pandora's creation of the Energy Clog.

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2 hours ago, ijuin said:

If Tedd was born to be a Seer specifically because of a possible impending Magic System Change, then the motivation for the Change would have to be from before his birth--and from before Pandora's creation of the Energy Clog.

I wonder about this.  Tedd was conceived well before any of Pandora's known machinations.  Was the Will of Magic already getting annoyed with the status quo?

If not, how could the Will of Magic know what was going to happen in the future and set up Tedd so far in advance that he'd be good to go at the point of a possible rules change? 

Can the Will of Magic do things that spellcasters can't do?  We know time travel is impossible (for people), which says mass and energy can't go back in time and implies consciousness can't either. 

...Which should mean that the Will of Magic can't time-travel either.  Can the Will of Magic beak the time travel restriction?

Can information travel backward in time?  Precognition is by definition information traveling backward in time.

Is the Will of Magic running some huge. complex simulation of the world that predicted the likelihood of a rules change before the need ever manifested? 

 

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6 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

When Shamu was talking to Tedd, the conversation had to be kept as brief as possible.  The pain Tedd experienced was significant.

I'm sure Tedd would gladly endure more pain if he get better answers. The issue wasn't pain but possible permanent damage.

6 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Maybe the Whales would be suffering through an extended Pandora diatribe.

It IS possible the risk for the whale was similar to risk for Tedd.

6 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Perhaps an Immortal would be able to endure a longer discussion.

Probably.

6 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

But the point is, if Pandora could see the whales and take more time to communicate, then the whales may be able to explain in more detail what they meant by "Rarity".

Yes ... IF they know more details than Pandora.

3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:
5 hours ago, ijuin said:

If Tedd was born to be a Seer specifically because of a possible impending Magic System Change, then the motivation for the Change would have to be from before his birth--and from before Pandora's creation of the Energy Clog.

I wonder about this.  Tedd was conceived well before any of Pandora's known machinations.  Was the Will of Magic already getting annoyed with the status quo?

If not, how could the Will of Magic know what was going to happen in the future and set up Tedd so far in advance that he'd be good to go at the point of a possible rules change? 

Can the Will of Magic do things that spellcasters can't do?  We know time travel is impossible (for people), which says mass and energy can't go back in time and implies consciousness can't either. 

...Which should mean that the Will of Magic can't time-travel either.  Can the Will of Magic beak the time travel restriction?

Can information travel backward in time?  Precognition is by definition information traveling backward in time.

Is the Will of Magic running some huge. complex simulation of the world that predicted the likelihood of a rules change before the need ever manifested? 

Immortals themselves are very good in predicting, but it's still "normal" predicting, meaning based on current status and "simulation", not on seeing future.

It's pretty hard to be sure about something being impossible. If magic community is convinced time travel is impossible despite the otherwise unlimited variety of possible spells, it's likely there is extremely good reason for it, which would make unlikely Will of Magic is able to get around such restriction.

And predicting Pandora's behaviour with simulation sounds VERY hard. Given her level of boredom and her TRYING to behave unpredictably ...

More likely, people like Tedd are born infrequently but regularly (or possibly all the time) "just in case", to have some ready whenever there will be need for system change.

If magic reset would be process which require creating "dangerous rarity" and letting it get to age 18, I don't think Pandora would be able to stop it so easily. Or that it will be possible to time it to correct DAY as (apparently) the last reset.

 

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