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Scotty

Pinup: Saturday January 14, 2017

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5 hours ago, Scotty said:

Science is rad.

Yes, for science!

Dan said:

Granted, the actual "work" had mostly been forgotten and given way to play that was only going to escalate, but that, too, was all in a day's work for Amanda.

Isn't dr. Germahn recording everything? For science, of course :)

Thatoneguy said:

Amanda presently has the look that says "Hey, yeah, snicker while you can, you'll be down here the second you raid the fridge." You just know she has a 12-pack of Shrink Soda in there.

So what? Rhoda can use her spell to make herself bigger afterwards ... ok, it WILL be two enchantments on her counteracting each other, but at this point she must have lot of experience with that.

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18 hours ago, mlooney said:

Even though I was a heavy supporter of this one, it some how failed in execution.  It's good but not what I expected.  Meh. 

I'm getting really tired of these mega-boobs.  I do wish we could vote to keep things within the realm of physical possibility.  Yes, I know, magic, but it still looks so *wrong*!  If it weren't for that, I'd like this one more.

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Well the suggestion was "Amanda and Rhoda testing out the full range of Rhoda's size alteration abilities." So enlarging boobs would fall under that.

The thing is though, I can't help but think that Rhoda here is in her "Stacked, tall" form that was teased in the NP, if that's the case, then the "Stacked tall Rhoda, wearing only a gift bow" pinup that should be coming up soon is probably going to also have mega-boobs.

Then there's the issue with suggestions having seemingly expected results, like the "Ashley drinking a pint mug of tea" sequence that's bound to go further than we saw with Carol drinking more tea, but that'd be Dan thinking "well if Carol was affected that much by a couple cups of tea, then a pint mug should do more".

 

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21 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I'm getting really tired of these mega-boobs.  I do wish we could vote to keep things within the realm of physical possibility.  Yes, I know, magic, but it still looks so *wrong*!

Not only "magic". Also, Amanda's resize is outside the realms of physical possibility much more than the breast. I think the transformation gun limits are limits of what's physically possible in EGS. Of course, then we have sweet and spicy magic ...

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8 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Not only "magic". Also, Amanda's resize is outside the realms of physical possibility much more than the breast. I think the transformation gun limits are limits of what's physically possible in EGS. Of course, then we have sweet and spicy magic ...

What you see in this pinup are Rhoda's limits.  IIRC, the TFGun's limits are + or - 15% size.  You need earth-magic for whole-number multiples or divisors.

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35 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:
44 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Not only "magic". Also, Amanda's resize is outside the realms of physical possibility much more than the breast. I think the transformation gun limits are limits of what's physically possible in EGS. Of course, then we have sweet and spicy magic ...

What you see in this pinup are Rhoda's limits.  IIRC, the TFGun's limits are + or - 15% size.  You need earth-magic for whole-number multiples or divisors.

Of course those are Rhoda's limits and it's because she's using earth magic in defiance of the square-cube law of biomechanics (sweet or possibly even spicy one). The TF Gun limits are 200% and 50%, but volume, not size ; size is 125.99% and 79.37%.

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5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

...which equates out to 1.15^3 and (1/1/15)^3 respectively

Arguably, Rhoda's magic is "sweet" or at least it was when she had a Mark.  We have no in-continuity information to suggest it has changed.

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17 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:
21 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

...which equates out to 1.15^3 and (1/1/15)^3 respectively

... did you checked? (1.15^3 = 1.5208)

17 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Arguably, Rhoda's magic is "sweet" or at least it was when she had a Mark.  We have no in-continuity information to suggest it has changed.

No. We know that THE BOAR was transformed by sweet magic and therefore that Rhoda is capable of sweet magic. We don't know if sweet is her limit or if she can do spicy as well. (Although I agree that we have no in-continuity information on if she can do spicy magic; but when she shrunk Catalina, it was bigger ratio than the boar.)

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4 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

... did you checked? (1.15^3 = 1.5208)

It's something Dan put in a comment for a comic.  Eyeballing it, the math looks about right.

 

5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

No. We know that THE BOAR was transformed by sweet magic and therefore that Rhoda is capable of sweet magic. We don't know if sweet is her limit or if she can do spicy as well. (Although I agree that we have no in-continuity information on if she can do spicy magic.)

To cast an enchantment that hits the ground running as a law unto itself seems pretty high level stuff to me.  YMMV.

Past that, "spicy" seems to result from the relationship between the enchantment and its target.  Raven never seems to care who cast the spell on the boar just how the boar is working with it.

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17 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:
31 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

No. We know that THE BOAR was transformed by sweet magic and therefore that Rhoda is capable of sweet magic. We don't know if sweet is her limit or if she can do spicy as well. (Although I agree that we have no in-continuity information on if she can do spicy magic.)

To cast an enchantment that hits the ground running as a law unto itself seems pretty high level stuff to me.  YMMV.

Something only S-rank talent would be able to cast? :)

(Yes, hard to say how difficult it is compared to say, avatar with persistence.)

17 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Past that, "spicy" seems to result from the relationship between the enchantment and its target.  Raven never seems to care who cast the spell on the boar just how the boar is working with it.

I think it's describing the enchantment. Why you think who cast the spell would be important for what I said?

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Something only S-rank talent would be able to cast? :)

(Yes, hard to say how difficult it is compared to say, avatar with persistence.)

I think it's describing the enchantment. Why you think who cast the spell would be important for what I said?

Adrian said that "sweet" could be good or bad but seems to relate to most magic in general, for example Nanase, Ellen, Elliot and Susan would likely give off a "sweet" sense with their magic.

"Spicy" described what could happen if the boar was "in such defiance of the universe's laws that it had effectively become a reality unto itself" and might be associated with darker subjects like aberrations.

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18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Something only S-rank talent would be able to cast? :)

Not for a novice S-rank talent, no.  Anything else I'd say was ninjaed by Scotty.

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18 hours ago, Scotty said:
21 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Something only S-rank talent would be able to cast? :)

(Yes, hard to say how difficult it is compared to say, avatar with persistence.)

I think it's describing the enchantment. Why you think who cast the spell would be important for what I said?

Adrian said that "sweet" could be good or bad but seems to relate to most magic in general, for example Nanase, Ellen, Elliot and Susan would likely give off a "sweet" sense with their magic.

That's assumption. While Ellen, Elliot and Susan's magic are unlikely to be that high-level, we can't be sure how Nanase's persistent avatar or guardian form smell.

18 hours ago, Scotty said:

"Spicy" described what could happen if the boar was "in such defiance of the universe's laws that it had effectively become a reality unto itself" and might be associated with darker subjects like aberrations.

Strongly Disagree. Breaking laws isn't inherently bad - and aberrations doesn't seem to be that high level of magic, based on their number, so I don't see association in any direction here. Adrian's worry about spicy magic wasn't related to it being dark or even evil, it was simply that it's high level and therefore dangerous. (And possibly more likely to cause all sorts of sideefects on dispelling.)

Note, on the other hand, that there are other reasons for spells to be hard than how much in defiance of the universe's laws they are, so it's not that all high level magic is spicy, just that I consider likely that spicy magic is high level.

3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:
21 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Something only S-rank talent would be able to cast? :)

Not for a novice S-rank talent, no.

Note that I agree it sounds high level, I just think that while it's unlikely for Rhoda to be capable of such high level spells, it's not impossible, especially considering how little we know about the relative difficulty of spells.

Just remember the discussion under one of previous comics about how, from the POV of physical laws, crazily impossible the kind of shrinking Rhoda is doing is. I did propose solution based on invisible border between shrink and unshrink matter which COULD easily be described as "effectively become a reality unto itself".

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45 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

That's assumption. While Ellen, Elliot and Susan's magic are unlikely to be that high-level, we can't be sure how Nanase's persistent avatar or guardian form smell.

I know I didn't word anything wrong here. I wasn't assuming anyone's magic levels here, just saying that their magic would be examples of "sweet" and that it's the type of magic that allows for size manipulation, morphs and summoning fairies/hammers. Basically any kind of magic that doesn't necessarily have to be harmful, of course it could be abused in harmful ways by jerks, hence the "might be good or bad" comment.

50 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Strongly Disagree. Breaking laws isn't inherently bad - and aberrations doesn't seem to be that high level of magic, based on their number, so I don't see association in any direction here. Adrian's worry about spicy magic wasn't related to it being dark or even evil, it was simply that it's high level and therefore dangerous. (And possibly more likely to cause all sorts of sideefects on dispelling.)

Note, on the other hand, that there are other reasons for spells to be hard than how much in defiance of the universe's laws they are, so it's not that all high level magic is spicy, just that I consider likely that spicy magic is high level.

What I was trying to say about "spicy" is that it would be the opposite of "sweet" in that it's magic that's strictly intended to do harm to others for the caster's gain (ie, aberrations being able to feed on others to become immortal). Adrian's comment about if the boar was breaking laws would probably refer to it being corrupted by "spicy" magic into something unnatural.

Basically, in the case of what happened to the boar, "sweet" just meant that it was still a boar, just a bigger boar. "Spicy" would have not only made it bigger, but probably made it some demon boar from hell, like maybe this:

felboarskinblack.jpg

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Note that I agree it sounds high level, I just think that while it's unlikely for Rhoda to be capable of such high level spells, it's not impossible, especially considering how little we know about the relative difficulty of spells.

I'll agree to "not impossible" but with the proviso of "highly improbable".

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:

What I was trying to say about "spicy" is that it would be the opposite of "sweet" in that it's magic that's strictly intended to do harm to others for the caster's gain (ie, aberrations being able to feed on others to become immortal). Adrian's comment about if the boar was breaking laws would probably refer to it being corrupted by "spicy" magic into something unnatural.

That's interesting theory but it doesn't match Adrian's description. I repeat: there is nothing inherently bad on breaking universe's laws. There is nothing about harm there either. It's just that the spell alters the laws for the boar so much it's effectively separated from our universe and exists in it's own reality, although still connected to ours.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Basically, in the case of what happened to the boar, "sweet" just meant that it was still a boar, just a bigger boar. "Spicy" would have not only made it bigger, but probably made it some demon boar from hell, like maybe this:

I'm sure you could turn the boar to this by stacking Rhoda's spell with TF gun transformation. Even if you actually summon boar from hell, or summon demon and let it possess the boar, it would still not add anything in defiance of the universe's laws. (Note that both Nanase and Susan can possess their dolls). In fact, summoning beast which is naturally this big might be less against universe's laws than enlarging existing boar. Presumably, the portal to hell could be spicy, but only while open ; it wouldn't make the beast from hell spicy.

To make the boar spicy, you don't need to add spikes or glowing eyes: you only need to make it big enough. Imagine boar big as moon: under normal universe laws, his organs would have noticeable gravitation pull and limit of speed of light would seriously affect it's nerve impulses AND blood flow. His atoms would be almost visible size if I count correctly. Keeping it alive would definitely require breaking almost every of universe's laws. Yet, there would be nothing evil on it. (Except it would likely be cruel to the boar, of course.)

Similarly, not-tengu "demon" form might look worse and be more dangerous in combat than lot of aberrations, but that doesn't make him aberration. It's just separate questions.

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5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

but it doesn't match Adrian's description.

I dunno, Adrian said that "spicy" would have made him rethink their plan, which was to have Grace convince the boar to let Adrian disenchant him, so I would say that in order to make him rethink that plan, the boar would have to have become such that saving it would no longer be possible. Of course it still turned out that it wasn't possible, but only because the boar didn't want to be disenchanted and was willing to defend himself against anyone and anything. Also Adrian said that "sweet" mean that boar's growth was in defiance of the square-cube law, and as such was referring to the enchantment placed on it. his description of "spicy" suggested that the boar itself was in defiance, which would mean that somehow the boar itself might have grown that much without assistance from a magic user.

17 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I'm sure you could turn the boar to this by stacking Rhoda's spell with TF gun transformation. Even if you actually summon boar from hell, or summon demon and let it possess the boar, it would still not add anything in defiance of the universe's laws. (Note that both Nanase and Susan can possess their dolls). In fact, summoning beast which is naturally this big might be less against universe's laws than enlarging existing boar. Presumably, the portal to hell could be spicy, but only while open ; it wouldn't make the beast from hell spicy.

It's not enchantments that would be "spicy", "spicy" would mean corrupted, tainted, or warped in an unnatural way. Aberrations are corrupted beings who've twisted their physical forms permanently and are sustained by unnatural methods. A corrupted boar would be beyond feral, it wouldn't be satisfied by just rooting around in the dirt for food, it'd would attack and feed on likely anything that moved.

32 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Similarly, not-tengu "demon" form might look worse and be more dangerous in combat than lot of aberrations, but that doesn't make him aberration. It's just separate questions.

No, Not_Tengu wasn't an aberration, and as I said before "sweet" magic could still be harmful if abused by jerks.

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2 minutes ago, Scotty said:
42 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

but it doesn't match Adrian's description.

I dunno, Adrian said that "spicy" would have made him rethink their plan, which was to have Grace convince the boar to let Adrian disenchant him, so I would say that in order to make him rethink that plan, the boar would have to have become such that saving it would no longer be possible

As I mentioned, I would assume that disenchanting boar enchanted with spicy magic would be hard and risky even with its full cooperation. Something like disarming mine.

5 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Also Adrian said that "sweet" mean that boar's growth was in defiance of the square-cube law, and as such was referring to the enchantment placed on it. his description of "spicy" suggested that the boar itself was in defiance, which would mean that somehow the boar itself might have grown that much without assistance from a magic user.

Disagree. I think he said just "boar" because he would assume multiple changes of the boar, not just growth - but it might still be one enchantment from single magic user.

6 minutes ago, Scotty said:

It's not enchantments that would be "spicy", "spicy" would mean corrupted, tainted, or warped in an unnatural way.

This is the assumption that I'm disagreeing with. You have no argument for this, unless you automatically assume that defiance of universe's law = unnatural = evil. Which is not true - at least not in EGS. Nanase's persistent avatar is breaking LOT of universe's laws but is not evil.

9 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Aberrations are corrupted beings who've twisted their physical forms permanently and are sustained by unnatural methods. A corrupted boar would be beyond feral, it wouldn't be satisfied by just rooting around in the dirt for food, it'd would attack and feed on likely anything that moved.

Sure ... but neither would necessary been spicy. Wait. Actually, I don't agree with the "unnatural methods" claim. Aberrations method of feeding doesn't need to be unnatural. Just immoral. But that corrupted part fits.

10 minutes ago, Scotty said:
50 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Similarly, not-tengu "demon" form might look worse and be more dangerous in combat than lot of aberrations, but that doesn't make him aberration. It's just separate questions.

No, Not_Tengu wasn't an aberration, and as I said before "sweet" magic could still be harmful if abused by jerks.

Good. Now the second part: And "spicy" magic can be safe and harmless if done by good-meaning professional. (But probably is unlikely to be safe if done by amateur, even if good-meaning - which may be another reason why would Adrian rethink his plan ; he KNOWS both other professionals in and around Moperville and don't think they did it.)

 

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9 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Disagree. I think he said just "boar" because he would assume multiple changes of the boar, not just growth - but it might still be one enchantment from single magic user.

I would figure that if that's what he meant, he should have been clear about it. The whole "reality unto itself" bit certainly doesn't sound like it would have had help from a magic user to transform it, it sounded more like it's default form would have been changed which isn't an enchantment.

6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Nanase's persistent avatar is breaking LOT of universe's laws but is not evil

Nanase's avatar was said to be breaking the laws of physics, which was rebutted with "we consider them polite suggestions", so it could still have been within the universe's laws.

21 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Sure ... but neither would necessary been spicy. Wait. Actually, I don't agree with the "unnatural methods" claim. Aberrations method of feeding doesn't need to be unnatural. Just immoral. But that corrupted part fits.

Immoral, yes, but there's something about the fact that aberrations have to take the blood of humans to sustain their immortality or possess hosts that makes it unnatural. Heck I'd categorize the immortality bit on breaking the universe's laws, aberrations are essentially cheating their own deaths by killing others.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Disagree. I think he said just "boar" because he would assume multiple changes of the boar, not just growth - but it might still be one enchantment from single magic user.

I would figure that if that's what he meant, he should have been clear about it. The whole "reality unto itself" bit certainly doesn't sound like it would have had help from a magic user to transform it, it sounded more like it's default form would have been changed which isn't an enchantment.

While I suspect that it indeed isn't enchantment, Tedd can make wands like that. I mean, which change default form, not necessary spicy magic.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Nanase's persistent avatar is breaking LOT of universe's laws but is not evil

Nanase's avatar was said to be breaking the laws of physics, which was rebutted with "we consider them polite suggestions", so it could still have been within the universe's laws.

Was rebutted by NANASE, who, long family history of magic users notwithstanding, likely wasn't formally educated on the topic. And square-cube law is physical law. I think Adrian counts physical laws as (subgroup of) universe laws.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Sure ... but neither would necessary been spicy. Wait. Actually, I don't agree with the "unnatural methods" claim. Aberrations method of feeding doesn't need to be unnatural. Just immoral. But that corrupted part fits.

Immoral, yes, but there's something about the fact that aberrations have to take the blood of humans to sustain their immortality or possess hosts that makes it unnatural.

Taking blood to sustain themselves is something lot of animals does. If there is some unnatural part in what aberrations do, we didn't hear about it yet.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Heck I'd categorize the immortality bit on breaking the universe's laws, aberrations are essentially cheating their own deaths by killing others.

"Everything dies" isn't physical law. There are thermodynamic laws, but those do enable prolonging one life on expense of other. Also, Nanase likely breaks thermodynamic laws with her persistent avatar. Breaking few laws isn't problem, apparently.

(That might be good question for Dan, actually: did we saw any "spicy" magic in EGS? If not, can you provide some example?)

 

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