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Story Monday February 6, 2017

22 posts in this topic

Alright, she's riding with Susan today, and Susan seems to be in a good enough mood to joke about Sarah's spell being a personal holodeck.

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Who gets the cookie for predicting that Sarah was riding with Susan?

Hollow Pursuits was an interesting episode.  I like the character of Reginald Barkley.  It was unusual to see anyone in Star Fleet suffer from realistic mental problems.  (Other than megalomania, overconfidence, paranoia, and other undesirable traits found in the cliché military leaders in history and legend.)  Almost everyone in the fleet was portrayed as super competent in their field.  Barkley was flawed and became a better officer over the course of his service on the Enterprise by confronting his problems.  Eventually he was instrumental in helping reestablish communications with the missing starship Voyager.

As for how the holograms of people could be such an exact match?  I believe that an episode of DS9 discussed how anyone entering a holographic projection would be thoroughly scanned.  And information from the Transporter could also be used.

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There was an episode of Babylon 5 with a holodeck-lite. It used holograms and full body feed back suits to interact with them.

IIRC, in the episode there was a Holo-brothel, and during the investigation of a complaint they found a hologram of the (female) station commander which turned out to be surprisingly popular with (female) clients.

It was destroyed by collateral damage when the commander chucked a grenade at the Bad Guys. Purely unindended, I'm sure.

*runs to google*. River of Souls, B5 TV movie. Guest starring an easily recognizable Martin Sheen, despite the prosthetics and alien make-up.

 

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7 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

As for how the holograms of people could be such an exact match?  I believe that an episode of DS9 discussed how anyone entering a holographic projection would be thoroughly scanned.  And information from the Transporter could also be used.

And in the TNG espisode "Booby Trap", La Forge instructs the computer to use a person's personality profile to give the hologram of that person more natural behaviour.

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7 hours ago, Scotty said:
15 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

As for how the holograms of people could be such an exact match?  I believe that an episode of DS9 discussed how anyone entering a holographic projection would be thoroughly scanned.  And information from the Transporter could also be used.

And in the TNG espisode "Booby Trap", La Forge instructs the computer to use a person's personality profile to give the hologram of that person more natural behaviour.

At least La Forge is a chief engineer who may actually have some "only supposed to be used in emergency" rights on main computer. Where Barkley got rights to Diane's image ... wait. Holocamera. Maybe the full scan data are as easy to get as you can get photo with some celebrity today.

Still, better than VOY, where some random aliens removed weeks of data from main computer and Janeway was like "ok, that's resonable, sure". Apparently, they have as low computer security as those aliens from Day of Independence.

 

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

At least La Forge is a chief engineer who may actually have some "only supposed to be used in emergency" rights on main computer. Where Barkley got rights to Diane's image ... wait. Holocamera. Maybe the full scan data are as easy to get as you can get photo with some celebrity today.

I think holocameras were used at some point in one of the series, but there's also medical scans which would contain holographic data for testing procedures.

There's certainly some stuff that only higher ranking officers would be able to use, then again, we do have the episode where Barclay was able to instruct the computer to create a neural interface in the holodeck that let him take full control of the ship, so maybe the threshold for special access is Lieutenant?

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What was Barkley's job on the Enterprise?

If his duties required him work with the holodecks and related files, then they couldn't just deny him access to the system.  His work may give him "need to know" clearance.

Now whether or not he was using his authority and privilege ethically is another debate.*

* No, he was not.

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15 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

If his duties required him work with the holodecks and related files, then they couldn't just deny him access to the system.  His work may give him "need to know" clearance.

Well, in "Ship in a bottle" it did when La Forge needed him to look into why some holographic characters were being portrayed as being right-handed when they were supposed to be left-handed.

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11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Apparently, they have as low computer security as those aliens from Day of Independence.

That is unfair to the Independence Day aliens. For one thing, the humans had one of the aliens' own computers. For another, they had Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith. Whereas in the case of Voyager, various aliens routinely log into the Voyager's main computer with no access to either Earth technology or Hollywood movie stars. Voyager's computer 'security' is so crappy that a three year old with an abacus could probably completely screw all their systems over in a matter of minutes.

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It also just occurred to me that another way people would be able to get holograms of crew members and such, would be to use existing recorded material such as visual logs. There was the episode "Identity Crisis" in season 4 where La Forge was investigating what happened to himself and fellow crew members from a previous posting, He converted a visual log from the away mission they were on to the holodeck to get a better perspective of where an unknown shadow came from. I would imagine that the recorder used to create the visual log used a compatible format for the holodeck to create the crew members. Heck that episode could give a good indication of what would happen if Sarah's spell interacted with someone actively resisting as she may see a shadow, but the source would be shown as a silhouette.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/File:Geordi_La_Forge_investigates_vector_analysis_anomaly.jpg

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21 hours ago, Scotty said:

There's certainly some stuff that only higher ranking officers would be able to use, then again, we do have the episode where Barclay was able to instruct the computer to create a neural interface in the holodeck that let him take full control of the ship, so maybe the threshold for special access is Lieutenant?

I'm pretty sure at that point he was able to HACK the main computer.

11 hours ago, The Old Hack said:
22 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Apparently, they have as low computer security as those aliens from Day of Independence.

That is unfair to the Independence Day aliens. For one thing, the humans had one of the aliens' own computers. For another, they had Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith. Whereas in the case of Voyager, various aliens routinely log into the Voyager's main computer with no access to either Earth technology or Hollywood movie stars. Voyager's computer 'security' is so crappy that a three year old with an abacus could probably completely screw all their systems over in a matter of minutes.

Don't exaggerate. Five year old. Unless it's Borg of course.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

It also just occurred to me that another way people would be able to get holograms of crew members and such, would be to use existing recorded material such as visual logs. There was the episode "Identity Crisis" in season 4 where La Forge was investigating what happened to himself and fellow crew members from a previous posting, He converted a visual log from the away mission they were on to the holodeck to get a better perspective of where an unknown shadow came from. I would imagine that the recorder used to create the visual log used a compatible format for the holodeck to create the crew members.

As I mentioned, they probably use holodeck-compatible devices for stuff we use standard cameras for.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Heck that episode could give a good indication of what would happen if Sarah's spell interacted with someone actively resisting as she may see a shadow, but the source would be shown as a silhouette.

It is possible ... technically, she should still be able to scan everything around that person, so she should get pretty good silhouette.

Alternatively, the spell is taking some shortcuts when displaying the information (like recomputing lighting instead of using captured information for lighting) and these shortcuts would mask that missing person.

 

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22 hours ago, Scotty said:

I think holocameras were used at some point in one of the series, but there's also medical scans which would contain holographic data for testing procedures.

There's certainly some stuff that only higher ranking officers would be able to use, then again, we do have the episode where Barclay was able to instruct the computer to create a neural interface in the holodeck that let him take full control of the ship, so maybe the threshold for special access is Lieutenant?

That holodeck was way to capable. If I'm not mistaken there was at least one instance when someone managed to build a transmitter on the holodeck and used that to send information from the Voyager to an enemy faction. If a holographic representation of a subspace transmitter can send an actual signal it makes me wonder if it would be possible to blow the ship up with a holographic bomb...

 

Then there was the episode where someone was playing with classic villains from literature in some adventure setting. When they were summoned to the bridge the simulation wasn't paused, as it usually would be, but kept running. What was worse was that for some reason one of the villains, I think it was Moriarty but that's just a guess, actually saw them call the portal and exit. This was enough for these supposedly super intelligent villains to figure out that not only were they simulations, but that there was a starship outside the holodeck, and that they could actually use portable hologenerators, once developed for the ships doctor,to allow them to leave the holodeck. Being programed to be villains they were of course planing on taking over the entire ship.

Those holodecks are ridiculously dangerous.
 

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8 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Don't exaggerate. Five year old. Unless it's Borg of course.

Okay, okay. A five year old. *grumblemuttergrumble* Whoever was in charge of programming Voyager's computer security system should really have made a better screening method than just:

DO YOU WANT TOTAL ACCESS TO ALL SECURE FILES AND SYSTEMS Y/N

DO YOU WANT TO LOCK OUT ALL OTHER USERS Y/N

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"A child of five could solve this!  Fetch me a child of five!"

Hey, five would be one more parent than Grace, she's a child of four parents....

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24 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

"A child of five could solve this!  Fetch me a child of five!"

Hey, five would be one more parent than Grace, she's a child of four parents....

Item 12 on the Evil Overlords list

Quote

One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he (or she)1 is able to spot will be corrected before implementation.

1I added the (or she)

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17 hours ago, Cpt. Obvious said:

Then there was the episode where someone was playing with classic villains from literature in some adventure setting. When they were summoned to the bridge the simulation wasn't paused, as it usually would be, but kept running. What was worse was that for some reason one of the villains, I think it was Moriarty but that's just a guess, actually saw them call the portal and exit. This was enough for these supposedly super intelligent villains to figure out that not only were they simulations, but that there was a starship outside the holodeck, and that they could actually use portable hologenerators, once developed for the ships doctor,to allow them to leave the holodeck. Being programed to be villains they were of course planing on taking over the entire ship.

The main reason Moriarty became so powerful, was because La Forge made a mistake and instructed the computer to create a villain that could defeat Data, so the computer had to give Moriarty knowledge of Data and the 24th century in order to accomplish that. Data has vast knowledge of the Enterprise's systems, so Moriarty would need to have at least equal knowledge in order to properly stump Data.

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As for access restrictions on Starfleet computers, user authentication seems to involve voice print identification, with passwords/codes for particularly important stuff. We see a prime example of this system (and its chief weakness) in the TNG episode in which Data impersonates Picard's voice in order to hijack the Enterprise to reach his creator, Dr. Soong.

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1 hour ago, ijuin said:

As for access restrictions on Starfleet computers, user authentication seems to involve voice print identification, with passwords/codes for particularly important stuff. We see a prime example of this system (and its chief weakness) in the TNG episode in which Data impersonates Picard's voice in order to hijack the Enterprise to reach his creator, Dr. Soong.

And in "The Naked Now" where Wesley was able to take control by splicing whole sentences together from things that Picard had said.

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21 hours ago, Cpt. Obvious said:

That holodeck was way to capable. If I'm not mistaken there was at least one instance when someone managed to build a transmitter on the holodeck and used that to send information from the Voyager to an enemy faction. If a holographic representation of a subspace transmitter can send an actual signal it makes me wonder if it would be possible to blow the ship up with a holographic bomb...

There are security protocols against that. In other words, yes. Remember that when Picard turned the security off, he was able to kill real borgs with holographics bullets from holographics sub-machine gun. Borgs. Who have personal shields.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, ijuin said:

As for access restrictions on Starfleet computers, user authentication seems to involve voice print identification, with passwords/codes for particularly important stuff. We see a prime example of this system (and its chief weakness) in the TNG episode in which Data impersonates Picard's voice in order to hijack the Enterprise to reach his creator, Dr. Soong.

And in "The Naked Now" where Wesley was able to take control by splicing whole sentences together from things that Picard had said.

I'm sure Data would be able to defeat any security measure which normal crew members are capable to use. But Wesley's method can be used by anyone, so they should do something with that.

(Also, which episode did someone order something to computer not knowing he's on holodeck? Actually, that was probably the Moriarty's one ...)

 

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3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

(Also, which episode did someone order something to computer not knowing he's on holodeck? Actually, that was probably the Moriarty's one ...)

That would have been "Ship in a Bottle" which was the second Moriarty one. They ended up pulling the same trick back on Moriarty to regain control.

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7 hours ago, Scotty said:

That would have been "Ship in a Bottle" which was the second Moriarty one. They ended up pulling the same trick back on Moriarty to regain control.

Decoupling the Heisenberg Compensators tricked Moriarty into letting them go. I hope the device they trapped him in doesn't develop memory corruption.

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