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ProfessorTomoe

np
NP: Friday, March 3rd, 2017

43 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, mlooney said:

I see what you mean, but given The Dan, it's possible he has plotted this out a long time ago.  Witness, for example, how long it took to explain the trip to France and/or how Susan can summon swords.

Considering the commentary for the "Marker" page in question:

Quote

Liz was first in this scene because she's Ashley's friend and someone for her to interact with. No more, no less. Then I started thinking about what her answer to this question would be and what sort of spells she could get, and things snowballed from there.

That really sounds like Liz was originally going to be just a prop while Pandora complained about not being able to give Ashley fun spells. I'm pretty certain that means the idea for making Liz a target for marking came during the creation of that page, hence why he said things snowballed from there.

 

1 hour ago, detrius said:

We also know from Sarah's encounter with Jerry that options for marking someone can become void if that person gains new insights, so if Pandora found that spell she could give Liz useful, she must have marked her or she had missed that opportunity of giving her that particular spell.

It's possible, maybe she did mark Liz before moving on to Rhoda and Catalina. As for the others, the spells she could give them didn't really fit with her plans so it's possible waiting till later might end up being beneficial. And Rich and Larry's behaviour didn't seem all that appealing to her hence why they were considered a last resort.

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8 minutes ago, Scotty said:

It's possible, maybe she did mark Liz before moving on to Rhoda and Catalina. As for the others, the spells she could give them didn't really fit with her plans so it's possible waiting till later might end up being beneficial. And Rich and Larry's behaviour didn't seem all that appealing to her hence why they were considered a last resort.

My point was just that Pandora couldn't simply postpone marking Liz because by then she might not have been able to give her that spell.

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2 minutes ago, detrius said:

My point was just that Pandora couldn't simply postpone marking Liz because by then she might not have been able to give her that spell.

I would imagine given how Liz responded, it's been a pretty strong opinion for some time, and she likely wouldn't change her mind too soon after that, Pandora likely counting on being able to go back to mark her later.

The main sticking point to whether or not Pandora marked anyone that we didn't actually see her mark was when she first spots Catalina. Her thoughts of "There are some decent options around here." too me sounded more like she had just done a preliminary pass to see what was available but hadn't actually decided on anything yet.

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14 hours ago, Scotty said:
16 hours ago, Indrid Cold said:

This is only one day, and she's already marked Catalina, Kitty and "Felix".

There is a possibility that she marked Liz as well, the fact that Pandora didn't elaborate on why kind of spell she could give Liz is pretty ominous.

Also, she marked Good Tom this day, probably.

On 03/04/2017 at 3:11 AM, Scotty said:
On 03/04/2017 at 2:44 AM, Stature said:

Tedd is drunk with power? I would love to see that!!

I think Pandora was talking about Felix becoming mad with power, I don't think Pandora believes that Tedd being mad with power would be a good thing.

Hmmm ... does she KNOW about lord Tedd?

11 hours ago, Sjmcc13 said:
16 hours ago, detrius said:

It just occurred to me that it would make perfect sense to retcon these two into being part of Luke's group.

Of course not all LGBTQ people know each other, but it would make sense for a transwoman who suddenly gained the ability to change peoples sexes (which is strongly implied by Pandora's remarks) to discretely promote her services to other people in the same situation as her. If she does so over a local LGBTQ forum, she might catch the attention of Luke.

I have been hoping this arc would introduce some of Luke's group for a while. 

And  they do not have to know each other when one of the people can see who has magic and might be scanning crowds (at a LGBTQ event/club/clothing store/etc) at random the odds of a change meeting increase. 

While true, there is probably at least one magic user Luke has been friend BEFORE he realized what his spell does ... otherwise, how would he realize?

But we don't know how big Luke's group is, so ...

9 hours ago, detrius said:

Please take note of how the choice of spells to give these two changes over the course of the conversation.

We also know from Sarah's encounter with Jerry that options for marking someone can become void if that person gains new insights, so if Pandora found that spell she could give Liz useful, she must have marked her or she had missed that opportunity of giving her that particular spell.

It's probably not THAT much specific. I mean, I would assume she could STILL mark Rich with the deduction spell even later in the conversation, and her note about "keeping as last resort" suggests she would be able to mark them later (they MIGHT be thinking about that for while), and Liz might remain markable for some time afterwards as well ... but she would RISK that she will miss the opportunity, and I don't think it's risk she would take.

7 hours ago, Scotty said:

I would imagine given how Liz responded, it's been a pretty strong opinion for some time, and she likely wouldn't change her mind too soon after that, Pandora likely counting on being able to go back to mark her later.

Yes ...

7 hours ago, Scotty said:

The main sticking point to whether or not Pandora marked anyone that we didn't actually see her mark was when she first spots Catalina. Her thoughts of "There are some decent options around here." too me sounded more like she had just done a preliminary pass to see what was available but hadn't actually decided on anything yet.

... on the other hand she didn't waited too long with Catalina, and there was ZERO risk of Catalina stopping being markable.

I think she was doing the interviews being visible, then turned invisible and marked all people she decided to mark. Also, it IS possible those included more than who we know about, possibly even some who we didn't saw to be interviewed. I sort of think that we shouldn't assume every magic user in Moperville will become named character.

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42 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I think she was doing the interviews being visible, then turned invisible and marked all people she decided to mark. Also, it IS possible those included more than who we know about, possibly even some who we didn't saw to be interviewed. I sort of think that we shouldn't assume every magic user in Moperville will become named character.

This would require Pandora ducking out of sight before jumping to the spirit realm to be able to mark people, it would seem pretty suspicious if someone came up to me, asked about what I'd like to be able to transform into, then vanish and few moments later I'm suddenly able to transform myself or someone else.

It'd be much better for her to survey a bunch of people and then duck into the spirit realm to do the marking.

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Pandora may have marked some other people, but she decided to follow Rhoda/Catalina and now Kitty/Felix, because those pairs were the most likely to be entertaining to watch.

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23 hours ago, Scotty said:
On 03/05/2017 at 5:04 AM, hkmaly said:

I think she was doing the interviews being visible, then turned invisible and marked all people she decided to mark. Also, it IS possible those included more than who we know about, possibly even some who we didn't saw to be interviewed. I sort of think that we shouldn't assume every magic user in Moperville will become named character.

This would require Pandora ducking out of sight before jumping to the spirit realm to be able to mark people, it would seem pretty suspicious if someone came up to me, asked about what I'd like to be able to transform into, then vanish and few moments later I'm suddenly able to transform myself or someone else.

It'd be much better for her to survey a bunch of people and then duck into the spirit realm to do the marking.

Uh ... that's how I meant it. Interview everyone (including Catalina), go away, "vanish" to spirit realm, mark everyone.

Although ... regarding the "suddenly" ... Catalina transformed quite quickly but still didn't noticed for some time :)

23 hours ago, ijuin said:

Pandora may have marked some other people, but she decided to follow Rhoda/Catalina and now Kitty/Felix, because those pairs were the most likely to be entertaining to watch.

Yes. Apparently, she didn't believed others will use the spell so quickly OR that if they do it wouldn't cause any hijinks.

Interesting question: was she planing to try another mall? It was definitely good idea to stay here, else she would miss Kitty ...

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5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Uh ... that's how I meant it. Interview everyone (including Catalina), go away, "vanish" to spirit realm, mark everyone.

Although ... regarding the "suddenly" ... Catalina transformed quite quickly but still didn't noticed for some time :)

Sorry, it sounded like you were disagreeing with me and saying that she was going out of her way to mark each person before interviewing the next.

With Catalina, Pandora had pretty much ended the interviews and shifted back to the spirit realm to mark her and watch her to see if anything happened. Heck, it's entirely possible that she got soo caught up with the hijinks that she forgot about the others that she interviewed and therefore haven't marked them. The only one we could safely say could have been marked prior to Catalina would be Good Tom and that would be because Pandora hadn't fully gone into interview mode and could have easily marked him.

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16 minutes ago, Scotty said:

With Catalina, Pandora had pretty much ended the interviews and shifted back to the spirit realm to mark her and watch her to see if anything happened. Heck, it's entirely possible that she got soo caught up with the hijinks that she forgot about the others that she interviewed and therefore haven't marked them. The only one we could safely say could have been marked prior to Catalina would be Good Tom and that would be because Pandora hadn't fully gone into interview mode and could have easily marked him.

NOW I disagree. While it doesn't seem like too much time passed between seeing Catalina and marking her, there wasn't reason to hurry in case of Catalina, while there MIGHT be reason to hurry with others, at least because they might leave the mall, and Pandora was not distracted yet, so no reason to mark others before Catalina or after (and returning back to Catalina little later). Also, I think she WAS in interview mode when noticing Good Tom already and consider fact that he is marked proof that she did marked others as well.

(Of course, it's just what I think ; no way to prove that, unless someone else from those interviewed appears with mark. Like Liz.)

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1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

While it doesn't seem like too much time passed between seeing Catalina and marking her,

When Pandora first spotted Catalina and Rhoda, Rhoda was pointing out the cookie place. Pandora marked Catalina while they were browsing and checking to see if there were cupcakes. I don't think it took more than a couple minutes from spotting the cookie place and walking to it, and Pandora basically spent the majority of that time ranting about name based affinities and deciding she was bored with the mall. So yeah, I don't think she had any time to mark anyone else, but I give her being able to mark Good Tom because her spotting him happened before she went into her spiel. It would have been easy to mark him before getting into character and doing the interviews because being able to save puppies is a priority thing someone must do.

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I picture it being a combination of the two options -- she'd interview a few people, then Mark whoever seemed like a good candidate before she lost track of them or they left the mall, then go back to interviewing.

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26 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

I picture it being a combination of the two options -- she'd interview a few people, then Mark whoever seemed like a good candidate before she lost track of them or they left the mall, then go back to interviewing.

I'm not so sure it is possible for an Immortal to lose track of someone. I think that once an Immortal has seen a person of potential interest, they can easily find them no matter where they go.

Unfortunately I don't have any evidence that I can think of to back that up, since trying to use the Main Eight as examples can easily be explained at Jerry, Pandora and Voltaire knowing where Edward lived and just having to wait for any of the kids to visit and then follow them home like a stalker. In Jerry's case, his vow could have acted like a compass that pointed him towards Susan, how he knew where Nanase was on New Years Eve could be explained as him sensing Not_Tengu in the area and investigating and he just happened to stumble upon Nanase and Diane and his vow kicked in. Pandora having been in the area the longest would have been able to learn where Elliot and Sarah lived years ago because of them being friends with Tedd.  Helena and Demetrius are oddballs in that they were both improperly reset and apparently in France at the time of the reset, yet they managed to get to Moperville because they were compelled to protect Elliot so they had obviously been in Moperville prior to their reset and they obviously made a vow that, while fragmented due to the reset, was still in effect that drew them back, and the fact they they've been following him around for the past while the would certainly know where the majority of the others would live, and they likely followed Nanase and Susan to their homes at some point as well.

It just doesn't strike me as it being difficult for an Immortal, especially one as powerful and clairvoyant as Pandora, to find someone an hour or so after seeing them.

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You might be right, but even so, it would be even more boring to have to go chasing all over town after a bunch of mortals.  Why not Mark them while they're still close?  It's not like it's difficult for her to switch back and forth between planes.

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53 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

You might be right, but even so, it would be even more boring to have to go chasing all over town after a bunch of mortals.  Why not Mark them while they're still close?  It's not like it's difficult for her to switch back and forth between planes.

Considering the fact that she felt that pretty much all of those that she interviewed wouldn't get spells that fit her plans, it's possible that with Rhoda and Catalina hijinks and finding Kitty and Felix, Pandora might just be satisfied with having marked 4 people during this outing, the 4th mark being Good Tom because, again, saving puppies ;).

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17 hours ago, Scotty said:

I don't think it took more than a couple minutes from spotting the cookie place and walking to it, and Pandora basically spent the majority of that time ranting about name based affinities and deciding she was bored with the mall

How long do you think takes marking someone?

But yes: I actually suspect that she marked Catalina, then left to mark others, then returned shortly before the point we saw her commenting nobody noticing.

17 hours ago, Scotty said:

mark Good Tom because her spotting him happened before she went into her spiel. It would have been easy to mark him before getting into character and doing the interviews because being able to save puppies is a priority thing someone must do.

She OBVIOUSLY was already in character - she transformed.

7 hours ago, Scotty said:

In Jerry's case, his vow could have acted like a compass that pointed him towards Susan, how he knew where Nanase was on New Years Eve could be explained as him sensing Not_Tengu in the area and investigating and he just happened to stumble upon Nanase and Diane and his vow kicked in.

Or, he already found Nanase based on her meeting Susan sometime before, and was stalking her.

I actually do think Immortals can find people they know quite fast based on their aura or something, but I agree that we don't have that confirmed in comics yet.

4 hours ago, Scotty said:
5 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

You might be right, but even so, it would be even more boring to have to go chasing all over town after a bunch of mortals.  Why not Mark them while they're still close?  It's not like it's difficult for her to switch back and forth between planes.

Considering the fact that she felt that pretty much all of those that she interviewed wouldn't get spells that fit her plans, it's possible that with Rhoda and Catalina hijinks and finding Kitty and Felix, Pandora might just be satisfied with having marked 4 people during this outing, the 4th mark being Good Tom because, again, saving puppies ;).

Liz. She did find whatever she could marked Liz with useful.

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54 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

How long do you think takes marking someone?

But yes: I actually suspect that she marked Catalina, then left to mark others, then returned shortly before the point we saw her commenting nobody noticing.

Not long, sure, but all evidence points at the idea that Pandora got distracted by hijinks before she could mark anyone that she interviewed. Again I point out that she had some options that she wasn't quite happy with because they didn't involved transforming and being very noticeable which strongly suggests that she hadn't marked any of those she interviewed, she spots Catalina, rants about her affinity, decides that the mall is boring but that she'll hang around long enough to see if Catalina does something with her mark, but she not one has stated "Oh, I still need to mark the people I interviewed". I would have expected her to have said something if she did mark anyone else like "well, I marked them even though I doubt they'll do anything fun".

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

She OBVIOUSLY was already in character - she transformed.

There's a difference between just looking the part and acting the part, I didn't consider her fully in character until she actually started asking people her questions. When she spotted Good Tom, she was still bragging about being more powerful the the average Immortal and capable of marking people without permission and such, she was still very much acting like an Immortal.

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Liz. She did find whatever she could marked Liz with useful.

Liz might be someone that Pandora could find later and mark, the way Dan played that interaction out definitely seems like he wanted to do something with it, or maybe he's teasing us.

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18 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Liz. She did find whatever she could marked Liz with useful.

Liz might be someone that Pandora could find later and mark, the way Dan played that interaction out definitely seems like he wanted to do something with it, or maybe he's teasing us.

Hmmm ... technically, she can find later and mark ANYONE. If we guessed correctly that immortals can find others by aura and considering Immortals memory is nearly flawless ... she might've been distracted but can remember later.

22 minutes ago, Scotty said:

There's a difference between just looking the part and acting the part, I didn't consider her fully in character until she actually started asking people her questions.

I think she can be fully in multiple characters at once.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Not long, sure, but all evidence points at the idea that Pandora got distracted by hijinks before she could mark anyone that she interviewed. Again I point out that she had some options that she wasn't quite happy with because they didn't involved transforming and being very noticeable which strongly suggests that she hadn't marked any of those she interviewed, she spots Catalina, rants about her affinity, decides that the mall is boring but that she'll hang around long enough to see if Catalina does something with her mark, but she not one has stated "Oh, I still need to mark the people I interviewed". I would have expected her to have said something if she did mark anyone else like "well, I marked them even though I doubt they'll do anything fun".

Or, she could have Marked Liz off-panel after finding she had a useful option, and then gone on to the next comic.  Remember, we saw the whole card game without knowing that Pandora had marked not one, but two different main cast members.  We don't get to, or need to, see every moment along the way.

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