• Announcements

    • Robin

      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
The Old Hack

NP Friday March 17, 2017

25 posts in this topic

Dan said:

Once you've secured the workbench, however, you can free them in a matter of seconds. They even acknowledge that they could've escaped if only they had workbench access. It is all but canon that workbenches give you super powers.

Well, it's still better if they acknowledge they could do it themselves with the workbench than making it seems you are the only one with such magic powers. Basically, it's the trope of "we know this doesn't make sense but can't fix it so let's hang a lampshade on it".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Well, it's still better if they acknowledge they could do it themselves with the workbench than making it seems you are the only one with such magic powers. Basically, it's the trope of "we know this doesn't make sense but can't fix it so let's hang a lampshade on it".

There was a game the came out on console last year called Dragon Quest Builders, the premise of it was evil had taken away man's ability to build anything so the world ended up falling into ruin because no one could remember how it was built. Of course you play as the only one with the ability to learn how to build and craft, but a twist of the game seemed to put emphasis on the ability to choose to be a hero or a villain so you can either help NPCs rebuild towns and such and teach them how to build, or I can assume you can make things worse for them, I dunno really as the person I saw doing a let's play on it didn't play for more than a couple episodes. It was an interesting take on that trope though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Scotty said:

but a twist of the game seemed to put emphasis on the ability to choose to be a hero or a villain so you can either help NPCs rebuild towns and such and teach them how to build, or I can assume you can make things worse for them

No option to force them under your rule? Why would I sabotage building a village, if I can just wait until they pay me to build it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

No option to force them under your rule? Why would I sabotage building a village, if I can just wait until they pay me to build it?

Like I said, the person I was watching play it never played long enough to try anything, the guide/narrator or whatever just kept reminding the player that he wasn't a hero, and that they were free to choose to be good or evil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's all about quantum mechanics and probability.  You just break down the wood and metal to their basic molecules.  Then you toss this huge pile of molecules into the air. And there is a chance that the molecules will land as a fully formed and functional two story Craftsman house with a wine cellar and wood fire pizza oven.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

It's all about quantum mechanics and probability.  You just break down the wood and metal to their basic molecules.  Then you toss this huge pile of molecules into the air. And there is a chance that the molecules will land as a fully formed and functional two story Craftsman house with a wine cellar and wood fire pizza oven.

Toss? You need more energy than that.

Of course, there IS a non-zero probability that twister going over junkyard will build an Boeing 737 ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All you need is the ability to manipulate probabilities in order to get the desired outcome. Just toss a really hot cup of tea in your finite improbability generator, and voila, out comes an infinite improbability generator!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ijuin said:

Just toss a really hot cup of tea in your finite improbability generator, and voila, out comes an infinite improbability generator!

Be careful doing that, I can speak from personal experience that hot tea does not go well with electronics, even old school analog electronics.1  Never mind what damage beef gravy can do.

1Spent a solid 36 hours (with a few 1-2 hour naps) fixing the "user interface" drawer of a Nike-Herc system that had a full US Army sized mug of hot tea spilled in it while "hot".  First time I actually saw "magic smoke" come out a live system of any sort.  Ah yeah, those were good times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mlooney said:

Spent a solid 36 hours (with a few 1-2 hour naps) fixing the "user interface" drawer of a Nike-Herc system that had a full US Army sized mug of hot tea spilled in it while "hot".  First time I actually saw "magic smoke" come out a live system of any sort.  Ah yeah, those were good times.

Good lord, what year was this? That's not exactly recent technology, even for the 80s, is it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

Good lord, what year was this? That's not exactly recent technology, even for the 80s, is it?

1980.  I was literally the last 24Q (Nike Fire Control Mechanic) to pull a shift on an active system.  In 1980 the Army was down to 16 live systems.  All of them were gone in 1985.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, mlooney said:

1980.  I was literally the last 24Q (Nike Fire Control Mechanic) to pull a shift on an active system.  In 1980 the Army was down to 16 live systems.  All of them were gone in 1985.

If I remember a report I saw correctly, that was more-or-less a suicide mission. Those were set to air burst at altitude directly over the launch site, weren't they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

If I remember a report I saw correctly, that was more-or-less a suicide mission. Those were set to air burst at altitude directly over the launch site, weren't they?

Ah, no.  In fact, the minimum range was way larger than the blast radius of the warhead.  And about half the missiles had "just" HE warhead.  Granted a 2-ton warhead, but still.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mlooney said:

Ah, no.  In fact, the minimum range was way larger than the blast radius of the warhead. 

Thank goodness. To be perfectly honest, I prefer my weapons that way. I am reminded of a quote from the comic "The Travelers" in the old White Dwarf magazine. 'They finally invented an antimatter hand grenade. Now they just need to invent an infantryman that can throw it fifty miles.'

Of course, RL (as always) often equals or outdoes the imagination. During WWII the Japanese came up with an antitank weapon that was essentially a high explosive attached to a ten foot long pole. The idea was that the soldier using it would run up to the enemy tank, jam the explosive charge into its tread and set it off. Needless to say, the survival rate of actually employing the weapon was not good. And for some astounding reason, its use never did become popular amongst the Japanese infantry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

Of course, RL (as always) often equals or outdoes the imagination. During WWII the Japanese came up with an antitank weapon that was essentially a high explosive attached to a ten foot long pole. The idea was that the soldier using it would run up to the enemy tank, jam the explosive charge into its tread and set it off. Needless to say, the survival rate of actually employing the weapon was not good. And for some astounding reason, its use never did become popular amongst the Japanese infantry.

And you've always got that most brilliant of ideas, the M-28/29 Davy Crockett nuclear device, with a range of about 2 to 4 kilometers. Anything within a few hundred meters of it when it exploded got a lethal dose of radiation. The troops firing it probably wouldn't have fared much better, due to close range fallout. Can't imagine it becoming a popular weapon if it'd actually been deployed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

And you've always got that most brilliant of ideas, the M-28/29 Davy Crockett nuclear device, with a range of about 2 to 4 kilometers. Anything within a few hundred meters of it when it exploded got a lethal dose of radiation. The troops firing it probably wouldn't have fared much better, due to close range fallout. Can't imagine it becoming a popular weapon if it'd actually been deployed.

This seems to have been going on through history. I once read about something that happened during the Succession Wars following the death of Alexander the Great. One general about to face off against a competitor was worried because the other side had a heavy advantage in war elephants. He came up with an amazing idea. He had a unit of slave soldiers equipped with armour covered in very sharp spikes and placed them directly in the path of the elephants. In theory this would indeed have stopped the elephants. In practice the slave soldiers took one look at the advancing elephants, worked out what the spikes on their armour were meant to do, and mutinied on the spot. They weren't having any of that crap, thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, mlooney said:

Be careful doing that, I can speak from personal experience that hot tea does not go well with electronics, even old school analog electronics.1  Never mind what damage beef gravy can do.

I don't have any doubts mug of tea would do quite a lot of damage, but it is REALLY worse if it's hot?

4 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

The idea was that the soldier using it would run up to the enemy tank, jam the explosive charge into its tread and set it off. Needless to say, the survival rate of actually employing the weapon was not good. And for some astounding reason, its use never did become popular amongst the Japanese infantry.

What, did Japanese infantry had different opinion about sacrificing themselves for the glory of the Emperor than the kamikaze pilots?

49 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

In theory this would indeed have stopped the elephants. In practice the slave soldiers took one look at the advancing elephants, worked out what the spikes on their armour were meant to do, and mutinied on the spot. They weren't having any of that crap, thank you.

Considering there were slaves, I suppose it didn't ended well for them anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

What, did Japanese infantry had different opinion about sacrificing themselves for the glory of the Emperor than the kamikaze pilots?

Considering there were slaves, I suppose it didn't ended well for them anyway.

Well, there's the matter of motivation. If you inform the Kamikaze-pilot-to-be that if he doesn't perform, Bad Things might happen to his whole family and that his whole life will be ruined anyway, as well as other methods of 'persuasion', suddenly you have a certain increase in the percentage of missions carried out. Add to that the fact that the pilots were usually elite whereas the poor footschloggers in the mud would often be conscripts with an at times very questionable morale and, well, let's just say that the Emperor's glory was all well and good but that there were also things to be said for living another day.

As to the slave soldiers, their overseers had kindly just armed them shortly before the elephants hove into view. I feel sure that at the very least this helped them to make a better accounting for themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/18/2017 at 6:23 PM, The Old Hack said:

Well, there's the matter of motivation. If you inform the Kamikaze-pilot-to-be that if he doesn't perform, Bad Things might happen to his whole family and that his whole life will be ruined anyway, as well as other methods of 'persuasion', suddenly you have a certain increase in the percentage of missions carried out. Add to that the fact that the pilots were usually elite whereas the poor footschloggers in the mud would often be conscripts with an at times very questionable morale and, well, let's just say that the Emperor's glory was all well and good but that there were also things to be said for living another day.

As with American pilots, all of the better-trained Japanese pilots were officers, which typically meant that they did indeed come from better families (since blue-collar or lower types didn't generally get admitted to the Academy). This also meant that they were raised from birth in the whole "death before dishonor" traditional culture, to the degree that a substantial fraction might actually commit suicide via their own swords/sidearms if commanded to do so after having shamed themselves. It certainly didn't help their survival that the propaganda that the Imperial Government used on its own citizens and soldiers said that Americans would torture and kill any prisoners, thus making "fight to the last breath and never surrender" seem more appealing by comparison.

There was also the matter that the Imperial Government from the Meiji era until WWII was basically running on theocracy hijacked by realpolitik--the legitimacy of the Emperor is based in the Shinto religion (specifically, that he is a descendant of Jimmu, the first Emperor, crowned in 660 BC, who was regarded as the son of the Solar Goddess, Amaterasu). As such, not only was questioning the Emperor's Will considered to be blasphemy, but so was questioning the government (based on the idea that the Emperor would surely correct his ministers and generals if they ever defied him--of course we saw how obedient the top leaders were when they intercepted 12 out of the 13 notices of surrender that he sent out). Anyway, insubordination pretty much ranged from unthinkable to "brings instant charges of high treason", since defying the Emperor's (interpreted) Will basically amounted to apostasy from Shinto.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, ijuin said:

As with American pilots, all of the better-trained Japanese pilots were officers, which typically meant that they did indeed come from better families (since blue-collar or lower types didn't generally get admitted to the Academy). This also meant that they were raised from birth in the whole "death before dishonor" traditional culture, to the degree that a substantial fraction might actually commit suicide via their own swords/sidearms if commanded to do so after having shamed themselves. It certainly didn't help their survival that the propaganda that the Imperial Government used on its own citizens and soldiers said that Americans would torture and kill any prisoners, thus making "fight to the last breath and never surrender" seem more appealing by comparison.

... hmmm ... the propaganda should work even on normal soldiers, but it's true that their upbringing might be less traditional ...

19 minutes ago, ijuin said:

based on the idea that the Emperor would surely correct his ministers and generals if they ever defied him--of course we saw how obedient the top leaders were when they intercepted 12 out of the 13 notices of surrender that he sent out

And were they executed later?

EDIT: Wait. They commited suicide, didn't they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0