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Scotty

More Speculation.

316 posts in this topic

Diane, Susan, and Nanase go out to lunch together. The title of the arc is "Mange à 3".

 

(I originally typed "Natani" rather than "Nanase". Now THAT would be interesting!)

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42 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

(I originally typed "Natani" rather than "Nanase". Now THAT would be interesting!)

Natani has their own issues to sort through at the moment.

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I'm given to wonder if Susan and Diane aren't actually Raven's (X-fold great) nieces. Reason being that when Raven disguised Grace she noted that she looked a lot like Susan.

And it makes some sense to me: Immortals would be more likely to involve themselves with a magical bloodline, like that of a vampire hunter. A younger, saner Pandora might well involve herself with, and fall in love with, a vampire hunter, leading to the birth of Raven, while the mortal side of the bloodline continued.

Them being in the same town is entirely reasonable if we assume that Raven came to America following the records of his extended family and Pandora came after, following her son.

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Elves like Raven can't have children (one assumes they're infertile per mules). 

OTOH, there's nothing known to be outside Magic's ability besides time-travel...

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Hence (great) nieces rather than grandchildren. Were it not for that fact, I'd still speculate they were nieces, but the relationship would be on Raven's Mother's side. But that's impossible so: More distant.

In any case, It's makes some sense to me: He can't serve his country, so Raven instead took to following his half-sibling's family around. If he couldn't fight for his country like he truly desires, he could still stay by his family, and their magic allowed him some small degree of intervention.

Although... going full on crazy train: What if Voltaire is Pandora's brother and he is Susan and Diane's father? It was mentioned early on that Susan has "Elf-like ears" and Voltaire's bangs bear a passing resemblance to Susan's father's (assuming he grew out the back), along with a passing resemblance to both sisters. It would also explain why the twins are blond when both their father and mother have darker colors. (He was transformed so as to live out a mortal life for a bit, but they inherited his true hair color.)

Though it does raise one heck of a lot of questions on how Elves actually work.

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Well, relatives on his mortal side winding up in the same place is a bit too coincidental for me, also the resemblance falters somewhat when you take hairdye/magic hair out of the equation, which shouldn't be part of the resemblance.

but at least it's not anywhere near as convoluted as the other theory floating around.

 

as to your second theory... if this is what sibling rivalry looks like for immortals, i am really glad H&D get along...

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3 minutes ago, InfiniteRemnant said:

as to your other theory... if this is what sibling rivalry looks like for immortals, i am really glad H&D get along...

Honestly, it strikes me less as rivalry, and more as misguided but well meaning concern:

"My sister is crazy and she needs to be stopped" mixed with "If I my sister dies, she'll be sane again." Logical, and consistent with Immortal biology but terrifying and crazy in its own way.

6 minutes ago, InfiniteRemnant said:

but at least it's not anywhere near as convoluted as the other theory floating around.

Do tell.

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short version? one of the other users here seems to think they're his daughters via the assistance of uryuom (i never know if i'm spelling that right...) biology, in spite of the fact that that equates to introducing a rule for the sole purpose of circumventing it, among other problems, and seems to have equally debatable rationalization for EVERYTHING.

as you may be able to guess from my word choice he and i don't get along, (partly because i hate egg theories in general, and this isn't his only one) so i'd rather not discuss it further.

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23 minutes ago, InfiniteRemnant said:

Well, relatives on his mortal side winding up in the same place is a bit too coincidental for me,

As I read the suggestion, it wasn't coincidental at all - it was deliberate action on Raven's part.

And sure, by now any one of Raven's father's siblings, or Raven's half-siblings by his father and a human woman, would almost certainly have either no descendants (which isn't interesting) or a great many descendants, but Raven could be following any of a number of possible bloodline rules including but not limited to primogeniture to choose which relative(s) to be near.

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29 minutes ago, InfiniteRemnant said:

i meant same place as the rest of the cast. sorry, i should have been clearer.

Pretty much everyone in the story is going to be in the same place as the rest of the cast most of the time. It's hard to write a story where a major character never interacts with any of the other major characters (unless there is only one major character). And minor characters who don't interact with the major characters in some significant way (whether direct or indirect) don't show up in the story at all.

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I'm not disputing their character category, i'm saying relatives on raven's mortal side winding up in moperville, regardless of adrian's motivations for being there or whether or not the twins are included in said family, doesn't feel right. Not the end result, but the foundation the theory is built upon.

It seems too easy. Extended families make more sense to me when they're scattered. though those expectations may be coming from my own family being spread across 3 continents...

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13 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I disagree.  I want to see how much drama can be sandwiched between Grace's dream early Friday morning and the Lunchtime Roundtable discussions on Monday.

This lunchtime roundtable discussion could be one of the greatest recaps in webcomic history.

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3 hours ago, InfiniteRemnant said:

I'm not disputing their character category, i'm saying relatives on raven's mortal side winding up in moperville, regardless of adrian's motivations for being there or whether or not the twins are included in said family, doesn't feel right. Not the end result, but the foundation the theory is built upon.

It seems too easy. Extended families make more sense to me when they're scattered. though those expectations may be coming from my own family being spread across 3 continents...

I would imagine that they are scattered... but they are also vampire hunters, and as such the favored prey of vampires. One imagines Raven, following rumors of his kin, praying he can find them in time to protect them. This time.

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2 hours ago, The Phoenixian said:

I would imagine that they are scattered... but they are also vampire hunters, and as such the favored prey of vampires. One imagines Raven, following rumors of his kin, praying he can find them in time to protect them. This time.

He'd been in Moperville long before Susan and Diane were born, I'd be more inclined to believe that maybe he came because of their biological parents, but you'd think that if something happened to their parents, Adrian would have taken Susan and Diane in himself like he did Noah. Considering his opinion of Diane and her of his, that theory that he would even know they're family doesn't really work out.

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Honestly, I would imagine a lot of magic people would be attracted to the magic clog in Moperville one way or another, be it to kill the excessive amount of vampires there, try to figure out what's going on, or some other reason. If we have griffins from another dimension* coming to Moperville for this reason, it's only a matter of time before the human family of our very magical cast would do the same.

*not actually another dimension

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On 13/05/2016 at 4:07 AM, InfiniteRemnant said:

short version? one of the other users here seems to think they're his daughters via the assistance of uryuom (i never know if i'm spelling that right...) biology, in spite of the fact that that equates to introducing a rule for the sole purpose of circumventing it, among other problems, and seems to have equally debatable rationalization for EVERYTHING.

as you may be able to guess from my word choice he and i don't get along, (partly because i hate egg theories in general, and this isn't his only one) so i'd rather not discuss it further.

While I don't believe I'm really amongst those plugging egg theories at the moment, I should probably confess/mention that I'm the person responsible for originally proposing any sort of "egg theory" in the first place (that is, it didn't seem to have been previously mentioned in the collective memory of the forum crowd).

This was only a very basic egg theory, just something like "it is possible to have seyunuluc with elf parents", if I recall correctly.  Beyond the simple implication (or possible speculation) that Susan was somehow a close descendant of Adrian, I am not responsible for any wild speculation that arose from it, and I'm not especially bothered as to whether it pans out to be the case.

This was a long time ago; way, way before the crash (although after the strip itself, that was before I found EGS, I'm talking the Squirrel Prophet era I think).

Quote

that equates to introducing a rule for the sole purpose of circumventing it

I will try and reconstruct what was running through my mind:

Dan was also introducing the dangling thread of the resemblance to Susan, even having Grace taking in-canon notice of this.  At the time, at any rate, the Susan thing seemed surprising somewhat (mere descendants of Adrian's mortal parents wouldn't bear much familial resemblance to Adrian by now), and introducing the resemblance thread solely to abandon that thread seemed odd, so I presumed it would be picked up at some point.

I think what I was taking from it as significant information at the time was more the resemblance and less the infertility rule, possibly because the latter was called into question by Grace in the comic (Story 2012-01-17 or ID1380) itself as soon as it was introduced but nobody was calling the resemblance to Susan into question.

On the other hand, I presumed the infertility rule was actually a rule until I remembered seyunuluc.  And realised that this gave a solution (not necessarily the most elegant, but a solution) to the apparent paradox.

Quote

and seems to have equally debatable rationalization for EVERYTHING.

... and, of course, there is no reason to presume that an egg theory is correct.  Until/unless it starts being strongly hinted at in-comic, or is expressly jossed, it will remain a "wild theory".  Speculation can run as wild as an individual's headcanon, and only Dan can limit it, but need not be presumed canon until confirmed by Dan.

(The predecessor to this thread was named "Wild Theories".  The present one bears a different name as it was re-created organically after the crash rather than as a deliberate resurrection.)

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The issue with this isn't really about whether Susan's (and subsequently Diane's) relation to Adrian is true or not, but the fact that it was, As HarJIT said, a dangling thread. Especially considering as was pointed out before, The griffin plot point was mostly dismissed as a one off until their reappearance in "So a Date". So, if griffins weren't a one off, what other seemingly one offs are there that could potentially resurface? Dan's been known to be vague in commentaries about whether something in the comic actually has any purpose or is just filler, so we're constantly guessing what's what, to the point where we're even expecting Phill the garage attendant to make another appearance as something more than just an extra. ;)

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27 minutes ago, Scotty said:

to the point where we're even expecting Phill the garage attendant to make another appearance as something more than just an extra. ;)

Infidel! Phill shall rise and prove to be the SAVIOR of the Gooniverse! :demonicduck:

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7 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Infidel! Phill shall rise and prove to be the SAVIOR of the Gooniverse!

This is the heart of our Phill-osophy

 

Edited by Pharaoh RutinTutin
Relevant detail added
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Just had a thought, we know Diane and Susan were born December 31st/January 1st, do we know when Tedd was born?

If Tedd was born January or February of the year Diane was born (Susan's birth being considered the next year) that could give Noriko time to have an affair, maybe Adrian knew about it and didn't tell Edward, he probably even used illusions on her to hide the fact she was pregnant. When Edward did eventually find out, it would be a very good reason to end his friendship with Adrian. I don't know if he would have been involved in the decision to have Susan and Diane split up and put up for adoption but if Noriko didn't want to stay in Moperville but couldn't take the babies with her then I can see her doing that, maybe she did that right after their birth as part of her attempt to keep it secret from Edward, she might have hoped to be able to mentor for them when they got older but it didn't work out that way.

This really depends on how Edward responds when Nanase and Elliot asks about whether Susan is adopted or not, I would assumed that if they are Noriko's illegitimate daughters, he likely doesn't hold it against Susan as it's not her fault she exists and it would make her Tedd's half sister (another reason for the story arc being named Sister 3?) , it would also explain why Jeremy likes Susan so much (smells like family?).

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Let's compromise and agree that EVERYONE is related to Susan and Diane somehow. They could be descendants of Raven's father's family, the blonde mistress AKA their real mother could be Noriko's cousin or something and one of Noah's parents could have been related to Susan and Diane's father, which would make them related to Noah too.

There. Now everyone's happy. [/sarcasm]

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8 hours ago, Scotty said:

Noriko time to have an affair

Edward's hair is blue, Ted's hair is purple, Nanase has red hair and her motther is purple red brown black inconsistent... (while double checking things for this i found a pic of her with black/brown and one with black/purple... and the rest of the pictures are from gray scale pages and are no help.  WTF?) Wiki says purple, so guess i'll go with that, and you get people purple when you add read red to blue, so it's logical to assume noriko's hair is either red or purple something dark. Whatever. specific color isn't as relevant as it being not blond.

If the genetics of their world are anything like ours, hair colors more often mix than override one another creating dozens of shades. If noriko was their mother, or a parent in any way, they should have some darker tints to their hair. (susan's current hair color doesn't count. that's magic) they do not.

While not imposible, a relation in spite of this contradiction is unlikely.

Edited by InfiniteRemnant
Wow i made a lot of errors...

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Also, blonde hair is a recessive trait (at least in our world's genetics), which means that one has to get it from both parents. Both parents might be carriers of the trait but not express it, though.

A nitpick on Susan and Diane being closely related to Noriko: Neither of the twins look at all East Asian--they don't have the "oriental eyes" that Dan draws Asian and half-Asian characters (e.g. Tedd) with.

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